Alphanumeric Phone Keypad - Fastap 160
seldo writes "The illustrious BBC has a story about a new mobile phone keypad, designed by a company called Digit Wireless, headed by one Mr David Levy, who "was head of ergonomic design at Apple for five years and was influential in the layout of its Powerbook laptops," according to the article. I don't know how it is to use, but it looks really funky. There's a demo on the site (javascript popup, so no link). The sooner I don't have to deal with the stupid 3-letters-per-button interface to send SMS, the better."
voice recognition (Score:3, Funny)
Re:voice recognition (Score:2, Informative)
However, the chance the phone will actually understand what you said is low... usually it's faster to just type in the number instead of trying to say a name 30 times... also, it will make you look stupid if it doesn't work in the first time
Re:voice recognition (Score:2, Funny)
The sad thing is that SMS holds only 160 letters - there's really not much you can say in those 160 letters. So what people does, is to write ununderstandable stuff. I dunno how this is outside Norway, but here SMS-writings from 14 year olds are generally unreadable.. And that would be hard to implement in voice recognition.
Re:voice recognition (Score:1)
Re:voice recognition (Score:1)
Re:voice recognition (Score:2, Interesting)
According to researchers at the University of Maryland's Human-Computer Interaction Lab [umd.edu], voice-recognition will never play an important part in our interaction with Information Technology because we construct our spoken communication in the "short-term" part of our memory.
This recent /. thread [slashdot.org], discusses a Washington Post article, "A Visual Rather Than a Verbal Future" [washingtonpost.com], which details their work.
Re:voice recognition (Score:2, Funny)
SM: "Dial Mom."
Phone:
SM: "Dial MOM."
Phone:
SM: "Dial... MOM!"
Phone: bink.bonk.beep.beep.boop.beep.bonk.boop
Phone: ring..... ring....
Phone: "Hello, this is Domino's, would you like take out or delivery?"
Re:voice recognition (Score:1)
Re:voice recognition (Score:1)
SMS is really meant for those times when you want to contact someone and you can't make alot of noise.. like in the back of a lecture hall, or in the middle of a movie. (or at least this is when I've found it most useful)
Re:voice recognition (Score:1)
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
carrot top (Score:2)
Dial down the center; it's free for you and cheap for them!
Also, then we'd never see any more Carrot Top commercials--wait, that might be a good thing.
how is this news (Score:1, Insightful)
This could be handy. (Score:1)
Demo Link (Score:4, Informative)
Urm yah. The link [digitwireless.com]. (Flash required)
Re:Demo Link (Score:2)
Re:Demo Link (Score:2)
Re:Demo Link (Score:1)
Re:Demo Link (Score:1)
Just wondering (Score:1)
Re:Just wondering (Score:1)
Japan? (Score:3, Funny)
So this first appeared on Japanese phones. That means on another 10 years it well be the new 'latest development cutting edge' in North America's cellphone technology.
I live in North America and I still don't have WAP or SMS on my phone ... I have to settle for a proprietary browser and text system.
NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:5, Funny)
NOKIA, for example, has dictionaries in the newer mobile phones.
Meaning, you just press each "number" just once, even if the "letter" is the last one under this "number." The dictionary does the guessing and writes the right word.
Besides, it words as an automatic spellchecker!!! No need to be ashamed your messages now. No one's going to laugh at your bad grammar.
Re:NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:1)
_I_ need a spellcheker (Score:1)
I know: It's the brain that I miss... (Score:1)
...so I gotta do with what I've got...
Re:NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:3, Informative)
I absolutely detest it, and it is switched off on my phone. On the other hand, my friend's wife uses it and he claims she's a speed demon when it comes to SMSes...
Re:NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:2)
Getting used to... (Score:2, Interesting)
But wouldn't it be the same for the new "keyboard"?
Besides, the dictionary thingie is quite handy. I have to write in Spanish about half of the time. And I'm not exactly Spanish. So it helps me a lot. Although at times it messes up with the "accents." [The future (or first person) is sometimes unknowns for the dictionary.]
Re:NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:3, Interesting)
Yet the issue at hand here is to totally scrap the need of a dictionary. SMS Texting is mostly popular in Japan and in Europe although its already picking up in the States. Now the problem here is language. I am Maltese, and we usually tend to use Maltese and English interchangably. Yet you can't do this for texting, because the lack of a Maltese dictionary. Also, you tend to use bad gramemr because typing out certain words STILL requires a look up in the dictionary because there would be more common words with the same combination of letters. People who send loads of SMSes would understand me.
I am totally in favour of encouraging this button layout, so that you don't get to teach your phone your common jargon words. You notice this most when you send messages from someone elses phone. Apart from having to re-learn his/her interface for using T9, you end up discovering that he/she doesn't have the same words. Grrrrrrrr
my 2c
Re:NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:2)
T9 + keypad != speed (Score:1)
However, if you have T9 AND the keypad then I don't see a speed increase beyond the max of one or the other.
In other words, I can see the T9 speeding the normal keypad up to the full keypad. But if you have new keypad... then how is it going to speed your typing if you have the T9? I can see accuracy increase, sure... But speed?
Re:T9 + keypad != speed (Score:2)
Typically, in european languages, the new letters would be accented and diacriticated (is that a word?) versions of the normal letters. So T9 technology would help finding the correct version of the letter with the help of a dictionary. I imagine this would help non-latin alphabets as well, such as hebrew, cyrillic, etc...
Also, it will reduce the number of guesses T9 would have to do. For short words, there are often several candidates, where each letter can be one of three letters (or more). So you have to scroll through a list to find the correct one. If your input is more accurate to begin with, the list of candidate words will be shorter.
Re:NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:1)
The T9 system should be able to learn from previously entered words like proper names, foreign words and slang (my conversation is much limited by not being able to say jackass, bamboozle or hola amigo!) They should be added to the dictionary after a couple of uses.
Also previous choices should affect the sequence of the spelling guesses. If I'm an avid saxophonist, when I press 729 'sax' should come up high on the list instead of 7th place.
I wouldn't imagine that the new generation of phones would have much trouble storing a list of at least 500 or so commonly spelled words.
-Bruce
Predictive Text (Score:1)
Re:NOKIA and dictionaries... (Score:1)
Good idea, only one problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
"Numbers are typed by pressing the four letter keys surrounding each numeral."
Surely sensing pressure centred on the actual number buttons themselves would make more sense?
Otherwise, though, great idea, even beats the Treo.
Re:Good idea, only one problem... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Good idea, only one problem... (Score:2)
Incidentally, it looks like they also have a credit-card sized QWERTY keyboard, with numbers and symbols in between the letters. That might be interesting to stick onto a PDA.
interesting concept, but can't tell w/o trying (Score:1)
Re:I have tried it and it's GREAT!!! (Score:1)
Not really. Read the F'ing article you morone. It is not available until the end of the year. How can anyone have tried it? I remember and miss the old Slashdote. You people ruine it for everyone.
I wasn't talking about buying it. It's possible there are folks on /. who work for nokia, ericcson, qualcomm or any of the manufacturers. Like engineers who are evaluating it. Atleast have the courage to put your name to your post.
Amazing (Score:2)
Every now and then, somebody breaks through with an idea that really changes how we think about things. Fastap is certainly one.
The best part about this design is that none of us will need to relearn anything. It's easily, almost automatically integratable into our daily lives without having to change our behavior. Certainly this doesn't mean we'll all have one soon. We should, but if we don't, I'll be forever disappointed knowing it existed.
BTW, wouldn't this concept also work on a PDA virtual keyboard? Seems like somebody could program one for my Palm without too much trouble. Any takers?
They Already Have (Score:1)
In effect, they already have with their demo [digitwireless.com].
Surely, though, a virtual keyboard wouldn't need this?
Re:Amazing (Score:1)
So, how long have you worked for the company?
Re:Amazing (Score:1)
> So, how long have you worked for the company?
Um, I think you might have accidently replied to the wrong posting. I like their idea but I certainly never said "Every now and then, somebody breaks through with an idea that really changes how we think about things."
Re:Amazing (Score:1)
Re:Amazing (Score:1)
Are you on crack? (Score:1)
Give me a break.
Ever tried to type stuff out letter for letter on an alphabetic setup? it's a pain in the ass.
I bet they get a patent for this incredibly brilliant idea.
Get real. What's wrong with the virtual keyboard on your pda? How is this any better? This is worse even. At least the virtual keyboard on a pda is arranged like a typewriter, not alphabetically, so you have some natural instinct as to where letters are (if you can type)
Please. This is news how?
Re:Are you on crack? (Score:1)
QWERTY was designed for typewiters, DOVARK is for keyboards (even though QWERTY dominates). What f'n use are these layouts on a small keyboards like a phone or PDA?
I'm glad that some people are looking for keyboard alternatives, because QWERTY sucks for this kind of application.
Re:Are you on crack? (Score:2)
MessagEase (Score:2, Informative)
I don't know whether there are actually any mobiles that use it, but that's just because I am one of the few backward people who don't have one. ;-)
See EXideas' [exideas.com] website for details.
What market? (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're interested in using a mobile messagingto to actually do significant work, where a mistake can cost time, money, inconvenience, hurt feelings, etc, then I suspect you'd prefer to use something PDA-sized which either has room for a real keyboard or allows you to use a stylus & touchscreen to tap out a message.
Weeell.. What's the point? (Score:1)
whats so new about this? (Score:1)
The keyboard in the phone is no new paradigm -- think back to the late 90s with the release of the Nokia 9xx0 phones. Despite their size they are still popular as mobile email/web terminals.
I personaly prefer to the t39m to my collection of 9xx0 phones....
...and 12keying your message isnt really that bad, ask any guitar player...
T9 text input (Score:1)
Re:T9 text input (Score:1)
If T9's claim is good, digitwireless is not going to be a better solution for monoliqual western language users.
Re:T9 text input (Score:1)
Cyrillic (Score:1)
Chinese? (Score:1)
I don't know chinese, but I know there's thousands of characters. Anybody have any ideas how they could pull this off?
Yeah, baby, WORK that Apple association!! (Score:1)
Wow, they're really working David Levy's Apple background for all it's worth!
From the Digital Wireless Home-page [digitwireless.com]:
"Fastap could do for wireless phones what Apple Computer's desktop did for the PC."
-- Brad Smith
Wireless Week ----
Looks like the best career move any aspiring Tech billionaire could make is to go earn some bragging rights by spending a few weeks working for Apple. Seriously, if you've just graduated with your 1st in Comp Sci, go work as a toilet attendant in Cupertino, that sort of cred will make even your worst future start-ups seem like rosier prospects.
Slow off the mark? (Score:2, Insightful)
Geeks who are still using so-called "multi-tap" input should be ashamed of themselves. Dictionary based methods, T9 [t9.com] (from Tegic/AOL), and iTap [motorola.com] (Motorola's equivalent) have been standard on phones for a couple of years now, even if they do have their short-comings [cam.ac.uk].
If you're not into the legacy layout* you could go with MessagEase [exideas.com] or this new thing, but the smart money is on a company called Eatoni [eatoni.com], since they have two products (LetterWise [eatoni.com] and WordWise [eatoni.com]) which they back up with a big stack of research. There's also Zi Corp. [zicorp.com] who make eZiText and eZiTap for SMS input.
If you're interested in the HCI aspect of all this you could do worse than looking at the work of I Scott Mackenzie [yorku.ca], Poika Isokoski [cs.uta.fi] or Mark Dunlop [strath.ac.uk].
* 1-800-GOFEDEX anyone? Probably explains why Europe is ahead of the US in this field. That and our ridiculous txt addctn...
Small devices and text input, if you're interested (Score:2, Informative)
Anyway, a summary, if you are interested, is that of the solutions proposed so far, most of them fall into a few categories:
Chorded keyboards: Think microwriter here, or a court reporter's typewriter. The idea is that you get around the small space available for keys by having a group of keys select each character; The microwriter only had four keys for the whole alphabet. The speed of input achievable is quite fast, but the interface is far from easy to learn.
Full key boards: Usually the complaint is that having all of the keys on one small device is no good for anyone with adult sized fingers.
Soft, or stylus input: This is just a touchscreen solution. You can either use a stylus - which is probably not convenient for a phone, or your fingers, where you are back to the problem of dealing with small or not enough keys.
Reduced keyboards: Where you use some method other than chording to input characters on a keyboard with fewer keys than letters in the alphabet(e.g. T9, multi-tap...)
This new device seems to fit in somewhere between a full keyboard and a chorded keyboard. The novel solution here is that you can fit a full keyboard on by using easy-to-learn chording to signify numbers.
Nokia 5510 (Score:2)
And of course, the Communicator [nokia.com] has a normal QWERTY keyboard.
Other Nokia (and most other makers too) have a predictive system. In my 6310i, it seems to work pretty well, although it's not very useful where you need it most often, inputting text in WAP pages. For example, it can't predict your usernames or passwords for wap sites very well...
Not that I ever send SMSs. Well, maybe one or two per cell phone I've owned, just to see how it works.
BTW, WAP version of
Diverge from QWERTY at your peril (Score:1)
Re:Diverge from QWERTY at your peril (Score:1)
Re:Diverge from QWERTY at your peril (Score:2)
Ahhhh. Same thing earlier designers (such as those on the early Sharp Wizards [yimg.com]) thought. Then studies were done and it was found that due to the breaks in the sequence (not all on one line) people unfamiliar with either layout were slowed by the alphabetical layout just as much as for the QWERTY ones). Then also that the slowdown goes away once the layout was learned. So there are no real benefit from going alphabetical aside from some following incorrect intuition.
It slowed down those who knew QWERTY, and made no difference to those who didn't
TI Calculators (Score:3, Interesting)
Fat fingers (Score:1)
According to the interactive demo:
Like most new human interfaces, this will surely take some getting used to, but is this really good ergonomic design? How can you consistently avoid registering a press on nearby buttons? Even if the device is smart enough to tell the difference between intentional and accidental key-presses, every other device out there requires the user to consistently and squarely press each button involved in an input operation. People are used to that, and it's not likely to change.
I don't know about anyone else, but it's gonna be really difficult for me to feel comfortable using an interface where fat-fingering the keypad is normal.
Great idea ... but (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Great idea ... but (Score:2)
This is probably why the idea is going to fail, extra buttons can't cost *that* much more.
Two devices, one service (Score:1)
I'd really like to get a Vbox [motorola.com] to do messaging with, but I wouldn't want to use it for a phone. I have a phone (V60), but it's awkward to do messaging with (even with T9 [t9.com]). Of course if I did get both, I'd have to pay for both! No thanks!
Virtual Keyboards (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Keyboards (Score:1)
Sounds pretty small... (Score:1)
The design fits 26 letters of the alphabet, the * and #, 10 numbers, three punctuation keys, a space bar, shift and delete key into an area no larger than one-third of a business card.
I dont think we (North) Americans could use it, with our large hands and all...
"Your fingers are too fat to use this telephone; To order a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your hand now..."
the QWERTY story (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:the QWERTY story (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, that article is inaccurate.
It states that their "salesmen used this slight bit of subterfuge to impress potential customers"... However it failed to get into the typewriter "shoot-outs" that went on during that period, where manufacturers would pit their machines against each other in speed trials. QUERTY came to domminance in those. They world's first and fastest touch-typist also came from the Remingtons' machine promotions. (Look up Frank McGurrin [learningkingdom.com] sometime if you care).
It also cites Navy experiments on the Dvorak layout. However... they forgot to mention that it was only one study, compared 14 Dvorak typists to 18 QWERTY typists, and that the experiments were conducted by one Lieutenant-Commander August Dvorak, the navy's top time-and-motion man, and owner of the Dvorak layout patent. [independent.org]
For more (but slightly slanted against Dvorak) see "The Fable of the Keys" [utdallas.edu]
(Note that I'm not saying here that Dvorak just the same as QUERTY, but just that QWERTY is much better than some give credit for, and that Dvorak isn't that vastly ahead).
Did I miss something? (Score:1)
Fatal design flaw! (Score:1, Flamebait)
When keyboards were first designed in the 80s, the QWERTY design became the most popular as it allows the user's fingers to travel a smaller distance, and to increase typing speed ten-fold over the old clumsy Dvorak systems.
Re:Fatal design flaw! (Score:2)
Anyway, since there are only 5 keys across, I doubt the QWERTY arrangement will help any, as the keys will be in different places anyway.
Re:Fatal design flaw! (Score:2)
Get a clue.
Re:Fatal design flaw! (Score:2)
Re:Fatal design flaw! (Score:2)
Re:Fatal design flaw! (Score:1)
Re:Fatal design flaw! (Score:1)
Anyway, nothing like spreading a little disinformation.
"Supports CRM functions" (Score:1)
Placement of Letters? (Score:1)
phone size (Score:1)
It is what makes my phone this small and easy in use.
After I read the article I drew the keys to figure out how large it would be (I didn't see the link).
This way of integrating the alfabet will make it neccecary to make six more buttons.
SIX more bottons.
If they start to really use this, making phones as small as mine (a motorola V series 60) will not be an option anymore, because of the huge keypad.
t9 comparison a bit skewed? (Score:1)
hrrrmmmm
Direct link to demo (Score:1)
Re:fingers? (Score:1)