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Hardware

"Smart Board" To Replace White Boards? 192

ZiZ writes "The BBC has released a story reporting a growing level of interest in Smart Board technology - particularly due to the efforts of Virtual-Ink's Mimio and variants thereof. Mimio gathers the information written on a whiteboard by virtue of "infared and ultrasonic receivers", stores it in a mobile base station, and allows for later downloading to a computer; it also has the ability to interface with a presentation, browser, or whatnot, in a mode they call mimioMouse, to allow cheap, interactive, real-time smartboards.This looks like it could be the high-tech breakthrough schools everywhere, not just in the UK, have been waiting for - or at least the beginning...and at a mere $400 or so, it's almost affordable enough to justify one in the home, too!"
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"Smart Board" To Replace White Boards?

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  • by KartMan ( 565213 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:18PM (#3130804) Homepage
    That's just great - we finally replaced our greenboard with a blackboard yesterday and here comes electronic whiteboards! Those redboards and blueboards must have snuck right by us. Talk about a paradigm shift...
  • I work as a tech in a UK school where we've already got a couple of "interactive whiteboards", looking at getting a lot more (we're talking every classroom).

    They're not really as much fun in the toy sense as you'd imagine, but they're really reliable in my experience, so they keep me happy.

    The thing to keep in mind is that you're going to need your £x000 projector to go with it if you want to use it like a massive touchscreen.
    • That's dissapointing... I had imagined something like a touch sensitive screen that you'd write on with a stylus that had a sidebar with different UML or ER datagrams that you could drag onto the screen... Like a touch screen version of DIA... Pity, that would be nifty as all heck...
    • by micromoog ( 206608 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:59PM (#3131029)
      ...you're going to need your £x000 projector...

      So you're saying if you specify price in hexidecimal British pounds, they'll give it to you for free? Sweeeet . . .

  • I saw it in a furniture catalog a few month ago, and it remind me of some system from a few years ago, where you write on a paperboard, and when you have finished the drawing, paper roll under a scanner system, and can be printed or faxed.
  • by Trinity-Infinity ( 91335 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:21PM (#3130824) Homepage
    My university [utdallas.edu] recently purchased a few of these to incorporate into a new Technical Communications course. The smart board was by far smarter than the teacher, but that's beside the point.

    The boards were intuitive, responsive, and just plain fun to use. Paired with projectors built into the ceiling and interfaced with the terminal by the smartboards, we had quite the multimedia setup for our course. Special markers also added to the fun by allowing the prof to use different colors to 'overwrite' images on the computer that were projected onto the smartboard. Very very cool, and it never crashed or locked once, which I think is fantastic for such an input-sensitive windows system.

    I hope to see more schools and universitites employ this technology, as it has a far greater and instant impact in the classroom than grants for new computers a school doesn't have the money to purchase licenses for.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      These are probably the boards your university is using.

      SmartTech [smarttech.com]

      • by Trinity-Infinity ( 91335 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:37PM (#3130927) Homepage
        Those are exactly the ones we used. I didn't include the name in my original post since I couldn't remember who manufactured the boards.

        We had two of the larger screens, paired side-by-side, and one project capable of projecting an image onto each screen concurrently. We had a windows box that ran the smartboard software, and we'd load our presentations on there, and use the board and markers to write on our slides as we discussed them with the class.

        Another monitor hooked up to the same windows box controlled the projection unit. We'd choose sources of either the windows box, a document projector/scanner, our laptops could be hooked up and selected as well, and there was also a VCR option to project video to the smartboard, but we never got to try that feature.

        In all, the smartboards were more memorable than the class, but I would have done *much* better in high school had some courses used these boards to illustrate points (Biology, history, math, you name it!)
    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:59PM (#3131031)
      Our college [ouc.bc.ca] has a 67" smart board [smarttech.com]. 67" touchscreen with rear projection. It's absolutely amazing. The software has built in OCR. The instructor can use his finger to write, and then have it appear as typed text. In white board mode you can save anything you do, and go back to a diagram you drew 10 classes ago. I don't think I could say enough about it....it's just amazing.

      I honestly don't see how our program could function properly without it. Like the microwave, I can't imagine life without it.

    • We had some similiar boards at my universtiy (ucr.edu) These particular boards were an actual white board with a VGA out that could be hooked up to a projector. So to keep the board and projection in sync -- you had to select wether you were "erasing" (using an eraser) or writing with a a control panel to the right of the board... To make matters worse, while in erase mode the board squeals to let you know its in erase mode -- the squeal roughly coresponds to the velocity at which you move the eraser :-)

      Theres this universally hated professor, this guy is a capital asshole...one day in his course he decides to use the marker board. He writes out the first page of his text -- muddling his way through it. To erase the board he picks up the eraser, well this draws all over the screen because he's not in erase mode :) HE'S, frustrated, he figures out the erase button and selects it, and erases the board again (this time correctly). He picks up a pen while still in erase mode and writes the next page of the lecture on the board. Meanwhile the class is sitting dead silent as the board is just squealing making these odd kind of vocal noises as he writes ... so I yell out "Chewie!? Is that you!?" in response to the wookie noises the board is making :) The entire lecture hall bursts out laughing (250 people) and the professor is staring at me with two glaring eyes as hot as the sun... I think he would have strangeled me if I was any closer to him :)

      ok, story time is over...
  • Bet the teacher would get mad if you wrote on one of those with a Marks-A-Lot!
  • Don't forget ebeam. (Score:4, Informative)

    by 42.5 ( 530984 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:21PM (#3130826) Homepage Journal
    As mentioned one of those "variants" is ebeam. It supports infrared, netmeeting, no-PC, Mac. Its smaller and works with larger boards.
    http://ebeam.efi.com/ [efi.com]
    • We had one of these. It was really neat. You just needed a crapola PC next to the board (to connect a serial cable to). The little pc can then host whiteboard images in real time to a bunch of machines on the network.

      We don't use it anymore unfortunately, primarily because people don't like change, and don't like doing meetings/whiteboard presentations to an empty room.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Ebeam actually has less range.. 4X6 vs. 4X8 Our company tried both and found the mimio far superior.
  • Am I missing something? It says it can "project the internet"... it also says for dvd and vhs. The packages for sale (couple of hundred quid) certainly don't include video projectors.

    How does this work?
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I think what they mean is that you can use your own projector to project web pages, PowerPoint, whatever on a whiteboard. Then, you can use the mimioMouse [mimio.com] software to "click" on the projected image. It's like having a huge touchscreen that you can also write on.
  • by Hoonis ( 20223 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:22PM (#3130829) Homepage
    This page [plus-vision.com] is in Japanese, but you get the idea.. we had one of these at an old company. Basically it's a big whiteboard with the writing surfaces on rollers that can pass by a scanning element, which prints it out. It was called a "boardfax" or somesuch. Granted, this one sounds neater :)
  • by javatips ( 66293 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:23PM (#3130835) Homepage
    I beleive this kind of technology is good mostly for teleconference. When one make a presentation and draw on top of it, it's nice to have this sent to the other site.

    Better, if it can record not only the result, but the actual act of drawing, the presentation can be played back just like the speaker presented the stuff.

    If the only use you have is to digitalise a board, 1.3M Pixel digital camera (turn off the flash) will give you more than you ask for... No need for special casing for your pencils and eraser, very portable, can be used on any "legacy" board, can be used after you started drawing (unlike most cheap digital board were you need to start drawing with the special pencils casing, you cannot digitalize something that was started with legacy tools).

    • That's really a great idea. I would think that there may be some limitations when space is considered (I am thinking more of the corporate application and you wont always have more than a cube's worth of room to back up)
      Not as cool as the toys mentioned, but I would think much more cost effective.

      Why I didn't think of it, I don't know- too much of an "in the box" thinker I guess.

      thanks for the post.

      .
    • "Better, if it can record not only the result, but the actual act of drawing, the presentation can be played back just like the speaker presented the stuff."

      The mimio software obviously captures the drawing as marker strokes. The software has a playback feature. It is somewhat useful. Someone who was not present at the meeting can see the ideas that started forming but were then discarded.
    • If both sites are set up with an electronic whiteboard and projecter, you can use NetMeeting or something similar to be able to use the whiteboard from either side.

      One of the neat things about the mimio is that you can attach it to existing white boards with suction cups. The $500 version has it's own memory so you don't have to hook it up to a computer while you are using it to capture drawings (just to download).

  • by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:23PM (#3130836) Homepage Journal
    stores it in a mobile base station, and allows for later downloading to a computer;

    Wait, add a wireless network, make the plastic frame an antenna [slashdot.org], and you don't even need the "mobile base station"!!
  • Our group has been using a Mimio device for the last few months. We've used it when discussing issues. We don't have to take notes documenting our meeting discussion. They are saved automatically and available in color to distribute. Usually we just archive them.

    The Mimio capture device used to fall down after a couple of days until we attached the semi-permanent mounting clips to the whiteboard.

    We've been very pleased with our Mimio and it would suck to not have it after being used to it.

    I haven't played with the MimioMouse functionality. That seems better for more organized presentations and training.
    • Posted my comment before I saw yours... Sounds like we need some of those semi-permanent mounting clips, since ours has been damaged from falling.

      Still, I wish it came with a halfway decent OCR package, so those notes could be distributed as text instead of a graphic file.

      Plus, why can't Mimio use those *narrow* pens? All you get are the fat ones, and writing lots of text doesn't work well with those.

  • I knew a guy who got fired for having the about:mozilla quote written on his whiteboard. Girl who wrote it got fired too. Those things are hazardous!
  • by kisrael ( 134664 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:24PM (#3130841) Homepage
    Not counting that Mimeomouse, the regular Mimeo product was pretty bad, at least a couple of years ago...you put the marker in a special holder, all well and good, but the mark only registers if you're pressing really firmly...it was way too easy to miss many lines, so we never could count on it as a reliable tool.

    What I really want to see are big honkin' LCD flatpanel touchpanel white boards. (and the same technology for laptops while we're at it.) If it would make it cheaper, I don't the resolution would have to be all that great, just have great big pixels at 1280x960 or whatever.
    • While not exactly what you describe, I have some experience with a "Smart Board" that really is a rear-projection screen that accepts touch input as a pointer device. You have to calibrate the sucker just right, but then the resolution depends on your projector, and there are plenty of quality projectors out there. I think it also had fake markers and an eraser (the fake markers just provided intuitive way of indicating color, didn't even have a real tip on the screen, for good reason, this is never meant to operate without a computer display on it.
    • We had similar problems with our mimeo, but we found that with only a small amount of practice even the pointiest haired boss could learn to use it.

      The key was that we never let anyone use the thing without first setting it up in his office and making him go through his presentation with us first. By hooking it up to their PC the PHB got instant feedback as to when the pen was active and when it was not. (...of course, we did loose a few PHBs when the quick learning curve overtaxed their walnut sized brains and they died much deserved deaths, but I digress)

      ANYWAY, the small amount of inconvenience spent spinning up on mimeo ops makes it well worth the $$$ you pay for it. It sure beats the heck out of buying a $10,000+ wall sized LCD screen
      • Well, even the smart techies would forget and let their grip slip a bit, thus, broken pictures, and unless you're watching the laptop screen and not where you're drawing, you're stuck.

        Maybe they need to build in audio feedback...anyone remember "Ichabod Marker" on Bill Cosby's "Picture Pages"? That guy was ahread of his time!!
  • But I'm be embarrassed to have people see my bad penmanship and spelling in presentations... But I could justify one for the fridge at home, to jot down what I need from the store and then maybe email it to Safeway [yahoo.com] to pick up later...
  • Mimio is okay... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Jaycatt ( 530986 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:27PM (#3130855) Journal
    We own a Mimio at my company, and it's a "neat toy" but doesn't go much farther than that. I guess coupled with an OCR package you could really do something with those notes on the whiteboard, but otherwise it's just a neat way to give everybody a snapshot of the work when they leave. Still needs to get typed up though.

    The downsides to it are that, left unchecked, the suction cups will pull off the wall and the whole business crashes to the floor. We've had to post a note for people to remove it from the board when they are finished so it won't get broken on the floor when it falls.

    • Instead of buying clips, try sticking the suction cups to the board with clear silicone RTV sealant. It will still peel off, but only when you want it to (it takes considerable effort).
    • >>The downsides to it are that, left unchecked, the suction cups will pull off the wall and the whole business crashes to the floor.

      The suction cups fail and the next thing you know you're filing for Chapter 11?

      Jesus Christ... You'd think that'd show up in user testing.
  • by jaydho ( 98032 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:27PM (#3130858) Homepage
    We have one of the Mimio's in our class [drury.edu] and I'm not too impressed by it.

    It's fine for just advancing a slide in a presentation, but for clicking it's kinda cumbersome. Best analogy I can think of is the touchpads on laptop, the tap and wait or double tap is too slwo for my tastes.

    What does work well for us is a nice LCD display for the presenter to use in conjuction with the projected image and a wireless mouse.

    Finally, we had to get new marker boards which were very expensive (the regular dry erase boards glare pretty badly.) The new one's do the trick with little glare but they were at least a couple grand.

    Here's hoping soon I won't have to leave my dorm and go to those darn classrooms, today is the start of spring break for us anyway though :-)
  • by neonstz ( 79215 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:28PM (#3130864) Homepage

    We've used smartboards [smarttech.com] in some systems at work. Basically it's just a digital whiteboard. The image is shown using a projector. Whenever one of the pens is picked up, the software on the computer detects it and freezes the image. You can then draw on the board, and lines are shown. It's of course possible to save the image. The problem is that you have to stand in front of the board, blocking the image. It comes with 4 "pens" (with different colors) and an eraser. The board is just touch sensitive. By detecting which pen (or eraser) the user picks up it uses the correct color (there is one place for each pen, if you put the green pen in the blue tray and vice versa a blue color will be used even if you pick up the green pen.

    The software we used was for windows, but the web page says that some of the features are available for Mac and UNIX/Linux too.

    • My company purchased a SmartBoard from SmartTech [smarttech.com] several years ago. We've had a wonderful experience with it - never hangs, always does what you'd expect. We installed it in our conference room, and use it weekly for strategy meetings. The software allows you to pick up right where you left off; we can access notes from years ago. You can also publish what you've drawn on the SmartBoard to web pages - great for reviewing at your desk.

      The software also lets the board act as a giant mouse tablet, making all of your software touch aware. Project a web page and touch the board with your finger and it's the same as if you clicked on the link.

      I've done demonstrations for several high schools and colleges in our area who've been interested in new teaching aids.

  • Not a lot of places sell slate blackboards or greenboards any more simply because they last decades and whiteboards are significantly cheaper to produce.
    That said, a large blackboard costs about 200 dollars. $400 for blackboard plus transmission hardware is really not that bad.
  • The computer science department at Georgia Tech has had something similar for a couple of years now. Their eclass [gatech.edu] program, (with this [gatech.edu] class as an example) would allow the professor to write onto a large screen with an electronic marker. This writing would then be both projected on the screen as well as captured for later review. The room was also set up for audio and video captures. It worked very well, leading me to believe that this will soon become mainstream.
  • by Tomster ( 5075 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:35PM (#3130907) Homepage Journal
    Probably everybody knows about this one, but we use a digital camera to capture important whiteboarding sessions. Maybe not as much fun as one of these nifty Mimio's, but it works fine for us.

    -Thomas
  • by pbranes ( 565105 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:36PM (#3130919)
    My university recently built a new technology building. They placed smartboards in every single classroom. They have their good and bad points.
    • You can switch between multiple pages and save pages for later use.
    • Also, you can write on top of programs such as powerpoint presentations.

    The bad part about these smartboards, I believe, can be completely solved with next version smartboards.
    • There is a noticable lag between drawing on the board and it actually being projected on the board.
    • you can't hold the eraser and the pen at the same time. You have to put one down on the board to use the other.
    • properly calibrating the smartboard is painful because you have to press at about 30 or so specific points on the smartboard and that can waste time if the class is waiting on the teacher.
  • by andy@petdance.com ( 114827 ) <andy@petdance.com> on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:36PM (#3130920) Homepage
    When I have a meeting that involves whiteboarding, I get big 2'x3' sheets of paper, usually from a flipchart pad, and tape 'em to the walls. We write on the paper and when we're done, we take 'em back to our cubes where we can tape 'em to the walls and have them right there.

    Even in the most text-heavy discussions, it takes only about 2-4 minutes per page to type up what was written, and the graphics are clear because they're not moved anywhere.

    Sure, it's not netmeetingable, and you can't get a nice little graphics file out of it, but how often do you really need that anyway?

    Besides, usually what comes out of those meetings are either very rough screen prototypes, or to-do items that have to get put into a project plan and retyped anyway.

    The other beautiful thing about paper is the built-in revision control. Crossing out items and using multi-color pens makes it simple.

  • SmartBoard (Score:5, Informative)

    by PhotoGuy ( 189467 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:37PM (#3130923) Homepage
    I've used SmartTech's [smarttech.com] SmartBoard regularly over the past few years. Here's my impressions:

    There is a bit of a learning curve; it's not a huge one, but enough that unless someone makes a small bit of an effort, they never will use the technology.

    *However*, once you put the time in to know how to effectively use it, it is an amazing technology.

    Being able to flip to a new page with a tape on the board, and flip back and forth between pages is huge. Also, in cases where you need *just* a little more room but don't have it, you can select the whole area, and reduce it in size a bit, and draw the stuff you wanted to add. Extremely handy. It's cases like these that it *saves* you a lot of time.

    Being able to have a full web/printable transcript of a session is also a huge timesaver.

    SmartTech's software also has features for timing agenda's, assigning task responsibilities, and other very neat conferencing features. (Also supports remote whiteboarding, good for those videoconferences).

    I've always wanted to try Mimeo's unit to compare, but never had the time. Hardly new technology, but definitely very useful.

    The biggest problem is that in order to make best use of these types of units, you also need an LCD projector, which makes the cost of the SmartBoard/Mimeo unit look pretty small.

    -me
    • Re:SmartBoard (Score:5, Interesting)

      by PhotoGuy ( 189467 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:44PM (#3130959) Homepage
      Oh yeah, one other difference between the SmartBoard and the Mimio (sorry for the mis-spelling above), is that the SmartBoard can be used with regular styli, rather than specialized ones.

      The way the SmartBoard works is that it has four trays at the bottom, one for red, green, and blue markers, and one for an eraser. There's a led/photocell on each, which lets the board determine when you've picked up a given marker, and thus will draw in the appropriate color (or erase). If you wanted to actually physically write on the board, you could use a regular red/green/blue dry erase marker (personally, I never wrote on it, just let the LCD project digital ink, to keep the surface from looking cruddy after awhile).

      When all markers were in their places, then touching the unit gave mouse-like behaviour, so you could use windows applications just by touching the screen with your finger. Very cool. Similarly, if you didn't want to use the stylus, you could just pick it up (so the unit saw the marker missing), then draw with your finger, which seems weird at first, but I prefer it at times.

      Oh yeah, another big feature of interest to /. folks, is that SmartTech has Linux support. At first glance, Mimio doesn't appear to.

      -me
      • Oh yeah, one other difference between the SmartBoard and the Mimio (sorry for the mis-spelling above), is that the SmartBoard can be used with regular styli, rather than specialized ones.

        Does that mean it doesn't have that annoying click? I can't use the Mimio we have because the sound is just too annoying. I wish they'd have picked something tonal if they had to have the markers emit any loud sound.
        • It has to click because that's how the technology works. The two sonar-ish microphones on the Mimio bar work by determining the time difference in receiving sound from the pen.
      • Re:SmartBoard (Score:3, Informative)

        by Chagrin ( 128939 )
        The protocol spoken by the Mimio has been reverse-engineered, and you can find information on it by weaving your way around http://digiwb.spline.de/. Unfortunately, all discussion on the development of drivers has apparently stopped.

        I have written a small driver in Perl for my own use, but came into a few problems: The whiteboard likes to spew junk into its datastream; just enough to mess up the entire queue. Additionally, there are certain areas on the board (approx 30cm from each of the sound sensors) where the data sent from the Mimio is completely bogus. Perfecting a driver would require a bit of error-correction hackery that I just got too lazy to do :)
    • I was an intern for smart technologies 3-4 years ago.

      The technology is real simple, just a tad tricky to build

      The real treat is not the whiteboard, it's the rear projection stuff. Imagine a 72 inch touchschreen. Minesweeper to a whole new level :)

      Gog
  • So the idea is that I and somebody offsite get into some partner-Pictionary frenzy of dynamic creative solutions that deliver increased value to customers and shareholders. Will we really be stimulating the Mozart quadrant of our left temporal lobes? I would like to try that, I've heard it feels like getting carbonated soda up your nose.

    This idea has been around the block dozens of times over the last ten years, and never hit it big. There's one in the next room that has lain dormant since before I started working here. Fax machines have well-established standards and interoperate across manufacturers, and everybody already owns one. Their faults are that the drawings aren't machine-readable, and the interactivity isn't there. But I don't think that's enough difference to make a market, especially where others have already tried and failed.

    Innovation is a lovely thing, but Sun-tse would tell these guys not to go into a battle they aren't likely to win. Maybe the right way to tackle this is a pen- or stylus-input gadget for existing Java whiteboards that can sell for much less, and possibly some standardization of a Java whiteboard protocol, with a reference implementation.

  • well partially anyways. Panasonic used to have a whiteboard that would capture whatever you wrote on it and save that to a computer. had a built in 'computer' for standalone operation. you could then make printed copies etc... freeing you from having to take notes. this was back in '95ish... Sorry, no links.. saw it in a brochure.
  • Anybody care to guess why the Mac version is $90 more ($497) than the Windows version ($407)? The only difference in the spec I can see is a 16-foot USB cable for the Mac version instead of a 10-foot serial cable.

    Look neat, but they can forget my business until/unless they either answer that question (well) or make the prices the same. We (mac users) are all tired of this crap.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • While I don't necessarily support your claim about the cost of mac software, the mac version is different. My office has been using Mimios (both the pc and mac(usb) version) for over a year now. They work great and are effortless to set up.

        The mac software even lets you export to iMovie.
    • By using a Mac, you have demonstrated your willingness to spend more for less. The vendor would be foolish not to take advantage of this.

      Oh, excuse me. I meant to say: there is no comparison between the Mac version and the Windows version. The Mac version is humane, intuitive and artistic, incorporates the latest advances in human interface design, and is the choice of creative professionals everywhere. In fact, I believe Ghandi sketched out his "passive resistance" strategy on a Mac-Mimio. The Windows version, on the other hand, is a crude, buggy archaic kludge hastily thrown together to make money. It requires the user to write on the board the Windows registration code, the IRQ of the disk controller and a secret activation code printed under the pen cap. It comes with an electric vial of blue paint, to be mounted at the top of the board. At random intervals, a valve opens and the whiteboard goes blue. Aren't you glad you can pay $90 more for quality?
  • I used a 'smartboard' when I was helping out with some extra IT teaching at a school (Birmingham, UK). They are really nice to use - you can do all sorts of things with them that would be impossible with pens-and-whiteboard.

    They do take a bit of getting used to - if you think of them as (a) a big computer screen or (b) an electronic whiteboard, you don't get the full benefits from them. The big leap is to start using both aspects - running computer software and then drawing on it with the pens (when you pick up one of the special pens, the software knows which one you have and your scribbles are coloured appropriately)

    A friend of mine is training to be a maths teacher and he is using smart boards on a day-to-day basis - apparently they are being brought in all over schools. He says they lend a new dimension to maths teaching - allowing software to bring concepts to life. One example he mentioned was transformations. He can get kids to draw shapes on the screen, guess how they would look when rotated, translated or scaled and then have the software animate the transformation to compare the result to their predictions.
  • by joshjs ( 533522 ) <joshjs@@@cs...uwm...edu> on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:45PM (#3130961) Homepage
    A function to create the sound of chalk scraping, to wake sleeping undergrads?

    I'd not want to give that up if I was a lecturer. :)
  • I've found that the best application of the smartboards at work is that on occasion I can amuse myself by playing big-screen solitaire :)
  • by Lethyos ( 408045 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @12:48PM (#3130973) Journal
    Smart Boards not all they are cracked up to be. They are inaccurate, very crude, and uncomfortable to work with. Aside from blocking the projector all the time... It's just another silly case of "we must make this digital so that it's 'cool'" phenomenon.

    But aside from that, they are just plain and simple a Bad Idea. The whole point of a chalk board or a white board, or even a scratch pad, is that you have freedom in your sketches. You are expressing ideas or at least trying to develop those ideas. The moment that you have to try to conform your ideas into some sort of restriction from the paradigm of your media, you lose pieces of your idea. Example: lines on paper, text only for jotting ideas on your Palm Pilot, etc.

    Enter the Smart Board. Regardless of the resolution, you're still dealing with pixels (probably pretty low res for the size of the surface versus the resolution of the projector). You're conforming what you want to express to a grid. Now while that may not seem like such a big idea, how often have you found that you write in tiny little details or hash marks or some other marking on a diagram? Sometimes those are very useful. What if you tried to draw a couple parallel hash marks and found that the resolution of the white board was insufficient to draw them... and made one thick line.

    It's little nuances like this that make Smart Boards utterly useless. You have to be as freeform as possible when expressing ideas! You should set the guide lines... and not your canvas.
    • Smart Boards not all they are cracked up to be. They are inaccurate, very crude, and uncomfortable to work with. Aside from blocking the projector all the time...

      Haven't used one recently, have you?

      First, you don't have to block the board. The ones we use are rear projection so they just look like a big TV set. You can also get overlays for plasma TV screens- neither have this problem.

      Now while that may not seem like such a big idea, how often have you found that you write in tiny little details or hash marks or some other marking on a diagram? Sometimes those are very useful.

      If you're writing so small that a 1024x768 screen can't pick it up, nobody in your audience can either. These aren't designed to be used alone: they're for people to use in classrooms/teleconferences. Put a single black pixel up and step back 10 feet- you won't see it. You need an area of at least 6-10 pixels.

      Eric

      • Haven't used one recently, have you?

        Just the other day.

        First, you don't have to block the board. The ones we use are rear projection so they just look like a big TV set. You can also get overlays for plasma TV screens- neither have this problem.

        OKay, it's rear projection or plasma... got it. My original point still stands. Besides, it doesn't make any sense to pay $2000-$8000 for a white board that is no more effective than a... white board.

        If you're writing so small that a 1024x768 screen can't pick it up, nobody in your audience can either. These aren't designed to be used alone: they're for people to use in classrooms/teleconferences. Put a single black pixel up and step back 10 feet- you won't see it. You need an area of at least 6-10 pixels.

        I am not talking about an audience necessarily. I am talking about interacting closely with peers and coworkers. And I am not talking about writing small. I am talking about writing detailed. You can also put a single black pixel on a 640x480 computer display, and you'll not really see it to clearly. But would you say 640x480 is sufficient resolution for sketching?

        By the way, for about $200-$500, you can have an effective resolution on a white board of millions of dpi (think molecules). Now try to buy a Smart Board of similar size that has 1000dpi resolution. :)
        • OKay, it's rear projection or plasma... got it. My original point still stands

          No, it doesn't. You don't block the projector: sure, you can stand in front of the board and block the view, but that's not any different than any other kind of black/whiteboard.

          By the way, for about $200-$500, you can have an effective resolution on a white board of millions of dpi (think molecules).

          Actually, it's nowhere close to that: whiteboard markers are fat and unwieldy for the most part.

          I don't think you really see the benefits of one of these systems. Can you do any of the following on a whiteboard?

          • Save sketches as webpages for later use? (Students love this.)
          • Mark up an existing, detailed photo, diagram, or engineering drawing? (Or text: one of our professors diagrams ancient Greek dactylic hexameter on them, marking up existing Word documents.)
          • Have someone a thousand miles away see the same picture you do? (No, a camera system is vastly worse unless you broadcast HDTV.)
          • Highlight specific areas just like using a highlighter?
          • Turn markup off and on with a single button?


          Hint: these aren't just for sketching on a wall. They've got capabilities far beyond that of a standard whiteboard. If you want to sketch on a wall, use a whiteboard. We've got them in the classrooms too, you know.

          Eric

          • The original poster's objections still stand - the most imnportant features you gain with an expensive interactive "board" can be had for less than $200 with a simple digital camera, or better yet, just go back to handwritten overhead slides, and scan them in after the class: Cost? $60 for the scanner, and a few minutes of TA labor that is effectively free.

            I have only seen ONE active board system that worked well enough to be useful, and unfortunately, it's not produced anymore: Xerox used to have a division called LiveWorks, which made a product called the LiveBoard. LiveBoard was a Windows 95 PC (This was about 1995, so that was current) with a very nice rear-projection LCD screen, and a set of smart "markers" of different colors. It could, of course display anything the PC could, plus overlay annotations, remote videoconference pictures, of pretty much whatever else you might want. As you might expect from a PARC-derived product, it was very well thought-out, and offered user interface capabilities that *really* made sense in the context - things like the ability to build lists with text recognition and insert things in a list or outline live, select text or drawings by simply drawing a circle around them and then dragging them where you want (great for suddenly realizing you didn't leave *quite* enough room for the equation describing the detailed diagram you just finished), and, of course, the ability to interoperate seamlessly with remote LiveBoards in other locations.

            I can tell you that LiveBoard and a good (full duplex, ala Polycom) speakerphone was a far, far better remote teamwork tool than any videoconferencing system ever built.

            Like many Xerox products, it was a bit ahead of the market, and Xerox made its usual marketing mistakes: 1) Try to recover development costs in the first units sold, pricing yourself well out of the market, and 2) Once this results in disappointing sales, kill the program, because it obviously has no potential to generate revenue. The number of times Xerox has screwed up really good products using this exact formula is mind-boggling.

            Anyway, that's all to say the LiveBoard was better in 1995 than I think anything is even today. It's a shame that software isn't available, since the outline processing part alone would be quite useful on a tablet computer, too... There really should be somthing that allows this sort of interaction, should touchscreen-like things become as common as they should be. (Sun's old ShowMe product came as close as anyone has to doing this correctly in software only, but lacked support for nonstandard input hardware. Maybe Sun will think about turning ShowMe loose under the SCSL...)
    • It's just another silly case of "we must make this digital so that it's 'cool'"

      My competition suffers from this:

      During the competitive bid process that I must endure to get new clients - I do much better that the powerpoint-idiot-competition by speaking clearly, answering questions intelignently and handing out written documentation *after* my presentation. It's important to hand documentation out after, as it keeps poepels atention focued on you and your message.
    • But aside from that, they are just plain and simple a Bad Idea. [...] Regardless of the resolution, you're still dealing with pixels...

      I must take issue with you there... I think the idea is sound; poor resolution merely points to a bad implementation, or insufficient technology to properly realize the Good Idea.

      I don't know what other objections you have, but it seems to me that the possible advantages make it a no-brainer with regards to whether the basic concept is sound. Digitizing the whiteboard can give you so many abilities:

      • Scrolling
      • Save and clear
      • Drawing basic shapes easily (that is, even more easily than normal), like rectangles, circles
      • Change the colour of already-drawn elements
      • Change the size of already-drawn elements
      • Cut, copy and paste

      I think the list can go on and on.

      • Change the size of already-drawn elements

        Just this feature alone will probably get a LOT of companies/schools/etc... to buy one. The ability to point at something you wrote a few minutes ago and have it enlarge itself is just invaluable. Especially in a room filled with people who may not be able to see clearly from the back.
        Additionally I'd love to see someone rig their smartboard to dump the output to a website somehow, so you could sit in on lectures without having to deal with vid-conf software, just a sound pickup and a smartboard dump. Should be MUCH lower bandwidth than trying to do any kind of readable video.

        Kintanon
  • I've been thinking of buying one of these forever, but I need it to work with Linux. I do all of my development under Linux, and my workstation at work runs it. It would be incredibly nice to save whiteboard doodles. I have used a digital camera for this in the past, but something like Mimio would be great.

  • My high school is using them and they are actually very helpful. One thing that my calculus teacher does is he writes down the steps we went throught to solve problems and then saves the slide so he will be able to look back on it later. It was very creative for someone like himself. We were quasi-proud...
  • If it doesn't have basis self-preservation instincts that will allow it to elude the middle-managers, who invariably will try to write on it with a PERMANENT MARKER, then it really isn't 'smart', just 'expensive'..
  • Finally!

    For all those lazy Tuesday morning math lessons at the university I had wondered, why anyone hasn't come up with an idea like this.. Record the lecturers boring nasal sound, record his cryptic writings from the chalkboard, sync'em, bag'em and put'em in a website for the lazy ass students like myself! :)
  • at the college I attend. The networking teacher uses it to project handy dandy Powerpoint Presentations on it. Is there any software for Linux that interfaces with it? Everyone is so caught up with Microsoft at that school, that they don't even know what Open Source means.

    I can see where they can have their advantages though. Mainly the fact that they don't use ink to write on. This has become a problem in most classes, especially Calculus class where you can't read what is on the board because the marker doesn't write.

    However, for that same reason, I'd have to say that I do not like these Smartboards. They're method of writing is similiar to a PDA, which is difficult to line up stuff that has already been written. This would not be good for a math class.

  • A couple teachers have SmartBoards and dry erase marker boards in their classes. One of my teacher had been writing on the marker board so he still had the marker in his hand. He walked up to the SmartBoard and commenced to writing on it. He scared himself very badly and hurridly erased it. He was quite happy that it erased all the way. Later, I let him know that it could also be a marker board.

    Another thing he likes to do is pick up the eraser, and then use his index finger to try and erase small portions of something he's written. Hmm...doesn't seem to make it more precise. He also likes to lose the pens in his pocket, and even his hand on occassions. Good for a laugh or two most days.
  • by Verence ( 145084 )
    I run the website for a somewhat large school district and have had some experience with Mimio. The way it saves the files is somewhat half-logical, but it works well with Real Servers (with which I have no experience) and regular webservers. The archive version of the files works great for dispensing, with a small modification of the smil file referencing the audio and video portions of the presentation.

    As of right now the single teacher with the Mimio hardware has about 28 math lessons online. The teacher is now uploading her lessons almost daily, and it looks like everything is working out quite well. For an eleven minute presentation the audio takes up about 1.4 megs while the video takes up only 42k.

    Overall this seems like a great system. Looking at the video files, almost every stroke the teacher makes on the whiteboard shows up. I'd love if all of my teachers put their lectures online with this.

    Our connection probably can't handle a direct /. link, but the school district is in Rockford, Michigan and the teacher's page is listed under East middle school.
  • Isn't it as smart as the person who is writing on it? :D
  • Yeah, we have one of those at my old highschool in the mathlab. They got it after I left, so I was dissapointed to say the least. Oh well. When I have stopped by, they were using it, and it seemed like a pretty cool thing. hm.. yeah.
  • The college in my town had a fire in their main building a couple of years ago. One thing they did when they rebuilt was put smart-boards in EVERY classroom. I've heard nothing but rave reviews. Especially from the students who can get the notes back in their dorm room over the college intranet. Funny that this is just now getting around to /. though.
  • by Rurik ( 113882 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @01:02PM (#3131047)
    We have a classroom environment in which we have 6 of these SmartBoards. They're so so, we really haven't put them to a lot of use. They work great, when properly configured. But, even when configured, the boundary lines usually go astray after awhile.

    For example, we have the smart board in the center of the class, flanking it are two very large projector screens on the wall. They're two different sizes, so the image on the smart board is magnified to fit the projection. Well, the problem is that when you start drawing a box on the Smartboard, it'll fit on the smart board, but will start going outside the scope of the projection. A 2"x2" box appears 12"x12" on the smart board sometimes, sometimes it's smaller, it goes all over the place.

    A straight line isn't always a straight line. A straight line drawn on the Smartboard will end up looking like a line at a 15* slope on the projection, so the whole image/text is askew.

    And the eraser? Well, it works so-so. it doesn't always erase what's on the 'clipboard'. You can erase all the ink, but you constantly have to step back to look at the projection to see if there's still stuff in memory that wasn't erased, then feel around the board to try and erase it all.

    Other than that, it works great ... except it's hard, for an instructor, to have the steps in his mind of: pick up the black pen, write, put the pen back into the black slot, pick up the blue pen, write ... etc. You have the urge write in black, then write in blue, then back in black, without putting the pens back in their respective slots, and that makes everything funny :)

    Just my experience...
  • We have two SmartBoards at my College's MathLAN [grinnell.edu] I have never once seen them used, except when my prof brought his kid to class who had great fun playing with the special eraser. It's still missing.

    josh
  • I hope they incorporate First Post technology into these boards. And some professors I know could use a lameness filter.
  • by RiscIt ( 95258 )

    "it's almost affordable enough to justify one in the home, too!"

    Don't laugh too hard.. there is a couple of math/comp sci professors at my university to live together and have a blackboard in their bedroom.

    ok.. maybe you should laugh... taking derivatives is NOT foreplay.
  • The tiny college (Bryan College, www.bryan.edu) in Eastern Tennessee that I graduated from has them in every classroom. The boards are great b/c you aren't distracted by having to copy the professor's notes off of the whiteboard, you can just download them after class. It's good to see the rest of the world catching up with rural Tennessee.
  • A friends school, The William Penn Charter School [penncharter.com] is building a new middle school and putting a SmartBoard in each classroom. They already have about 9 in other teaching areas around their campus.Thier teachers seem very pleased with thier reliability and usefullness in the classroom.

    what experiences have you all had?

    heybiff
  • ... these aren't that new are they. I saw and used such a device back in the late '80s for a remote conference. The new one probably has some new bells and whistles but it's not so innovative (IMHO). Now if I scrape my fingernails across it... does it record a grating, screechy sound and transmit it to others for listening on their PC? Now that would be fun.

    Personally, I hope this doesn't spell the end of chalk. It doesn't dry out like those damned whiteboard markers.

  • I reviewed [dansdata.com] the Mimio kit a while ago. It's quite technically interesting, and it certainly beats those excitingly expensive PHB-impressing purpose-built digital whiteboards. You just stick it on like a car window Garfield, and it works.

    Ze review, she is here: http://www.dansdata.com/mimio.htm [dansdata.com].

  • The good old chalkboard was the one shown in use? Seems like they should have shown people using the new system too.
  • Whiteboard Photo (Score:3, Informative)

    by Papyrus ( 226791 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @01:31PM (#3131253)

    For anybody that uses a digital camera to take snaps of your whiteboards I heartily reccomend a piece of software called (imaginatively enough) "Whiteboard Photo". This specialized piece of software massages your snaps such that the print you get is perspective corrected and the background is cleaned up. When you download your snaps from the camera you can either batch process the photos or you can handle them individually. If you handle them individually you can define the area of the board a bit better - the software usually does a good job of recognizing the corners of the whiteboard but sometimes you need to reposition the corners (which is a simple click-drag). Overall it does a pretty impressive job and is easily worth the money and now no unlucky person has to be picked to frantically try to trascribe the boards manually.

    One of our conference rooms always seems to end up with the old dried up markers - the ones that are hard to read even when you're sitting right in front of the board - the software even does a pretty good job converting those into usable prints.

    We also use it to take snaps of flip charts with equally good results.

    Here's a site that has a review [quiknet.com].

    It costs $100 US direct from the Pixid web site [pixid.com] and comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. We bought our copy thru an online vendor (whose name escapes me at the moment) for $79 US but a search should turn up other vendors.

    P.S. - one word above was intentionally misspelled to give the anal-retentives among us something to whine about.

  • Until idiot instructors start using them as ordinary white boards. Lemmetellya, cleaning dry-erase marks off of a sophisticated piece of electronic equipment is not fun, and one of the many reasons I got out of classroom lab support (well, that, and I graduated from university).
  • I've seen three different styles of magic white boards. Some that have sensors in the tips of the markers, some like mimeo which use some sort of wireless communication, and others that pass a scanner over the board. In every situation that I've seen them in (graduate school, government research facility, private company) they were all useless beyond the ghee-whiz factor. I can imagine some use in collaboration, but aside from that white boards wind up as big scratch pads for ideas. They get the work rolling, but generally aren't the work.
  • Breakthrough? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by catfood ( 40112 )
    The slashdot article says:
    ...the high-tech breakthrough schools everywhere, not just in the UK, have been waiting for...

    Are we talking about the same thing here?

    I'm not aware of a rising clamor for really cool high-tech whiteboards in schools.

    But I keep seeing and hearing about outnumbered and underqualified teachers, overcrowded classrooms, dumbed-down curricula, violence, racial conflict, patronage, corruption, drug addiction, excessive review time for high-stakes testing, poor morale, and low expectations.

    Which one of those problems is the space-age whiteboard supposed to solve?

    Sure, it's a neat idea and probably pretty useful, but a "breakthrough" that schools have been waiting for? Insert obligatory derogatory comparison to Microsoft marketing!

  • My college (senior high school, not university for you American types :) ) has plenty of smartboards dotted around the place (although, curiously, not in any *science labs*. Answers on a postcard for that one!)

    They sound like a very good idea. In practice, they don't really work at all. The reason? Powerpoint-poisoning. It simply sends...you...to...sleeeeeppppppppppppp. It's not just the dreaded PP that does this though, it's everything displayed on the screen. If pictures are brought up, they are invariably too complicated to take down, so the teacher has to manually draw out the picture anyway. It also encourages huge word documents to be displayed, so instead of boiling down the topic to the bare essentials for note-taking, big red circles are drawn all over it. All this is very sleep-inducing indeed. There is something about the teacher not making squeaks on the whiteboard that seems to make it all very...passive.
  • by crucini ( 98210 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @03:47PM (#3132254)
    These gadgets are initially attractive, but basically suck. Everywhere I've seen them installed, they go unused. First there are the inherent problems: the pen holders are large and awkward, the markers always seem to dry out due to poor engineering of the pen cap, the tiny expensive batteries wear out (and whose job is it to replenish them?), the pen holders are usually made of dark plastic that camouflages the fact that they are covered in ink - people learn not to touch them. The special eraser is undersized and rapidly becomes choked with ink.

    Then there are the self-made problems. I worked for a VBC that wanted to install these gadgets in our conference rooms. However we didn't like the PC-centric approach which makes it a hassle to set up for each meeting with someone's personal laptop. We wanted to simply put the equipment on the network. Since the gear is not network-friendly, we were going to put a small Linux box in each room to publish the images on our intranet. We found that none of the vendors would disclose the protocol used between the host and the hardware. We tried reverse engineering it and found it very difficult.

    I now work for one of the companies that makes these things. Although we have them in our conference rooms, nobody uses them for obvious reasons. I wrote an email to the product manager explaining why $VBC had not bought the product, and that enterprise customers need open, standards-based products that they can integrate into larger systems. I got no response.

    So, aside from the inherent defects of these gadgets, they are one more bright idea that will never come to fruition under the current PC-centric, proprietary mindset. I really think that the current Microsoft-inspired climate is throttling the development of the computer industry.
  • Our school [spsu.edu] has been using these for a couple years now.


    They're very convenient when the professor decides to utilize them. In a digital design class I'm taking now, where we program in assembly, it's nice for us and for the professor to be able to display and scroll through sample code.


    There's a regular white board right next to the SmartBoard, so the professor can write as he pleases while leaving the SmartBoard display alone.


    The only bad thing about them is the "overwriting" of the image with the special markers. Anything written is very, very low resolution. About the only thing our professor uses that feature for is to cross out a section of code on the screen.

  • There are some special purpose digital cameras for whiteboard capture. Take a look at the HawkEye [issos.com] Of course, for casual whiteboard capture, any modern digital camera will do.
  • Sigh. I fondly remember the days of my youth, when the teacher would send me off to make copies of something, and I would stand next to the mimeograph machine watching the papers come out at eye level, toxic vapours wafting delicately up into my nasal cavity and down through my lungs.
    It was a happy time, a dizzy time, a time of flowers and birds, and little blue men singing about little Jackie Paper and some puffy dragon.

    Gosh I miss the good old days before photocopiers and laser printers. :)

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