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Handhelds Hardware

Email And Cell Phone In One From RIM 186

Posted by timothy from the everything-that-rises dept.
ericmc42 writes: "Research in Motion anounced a new Blackberry this morning, and it has a GSM cell phone in it! It looks great! Email, PIM, Phone all in one. The best part about it is that the email still uses the same packet switched network that all other Blackberrys use. This means the email connection is 'always on' and the battery life should be good. Also interesting is that it runs Java 2 as its operating system."
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Email And Cell Phone In One From RIM More

Email And Cell Phone In One From RIM

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  • My nokia 7110 does all these things. And I think its considered out of day at this stage.
    • But the problem with most email-handling phones at the mo is that you have to dial up to collect, which has got to be one of the most painful experience in the world... This device has an always-on mail connection.

      And we'll get this in Europe when?
      • wha??!

        The Nokia Communicator 9xxx is prolly WAY WAY WAY better than this thing..

        That's what I want in the states.. not another Palm clone.
      • We'll get it in Europe when we have GSM/GPRS, oh wait we do.

        It is available in the UK (which is part of Europe depending on your Euro scepticism) with service provided by BT Cellnet GPRS at a fixed price rather than per MB.

      • A packet switched network (GPRS) is available in most if not all (European) countries already and with a POP3 capable cell phone (just about any decent phone) this functionality is here, today.
    • It's correct that the 7110 is pretty old; I just discarded my old 7110 after two and a half years of faithful service. It should be noted, though, that it doesn't have any real email support; no POP and no SMTP, only a network-dependent feature which would let you send an sms to a messaging centre which would then convert your message to an email.

      My new Ericsson T68, on the other hand, fully supports POP and SMTP, and is far from the first phone to do so.

  • Handspring Treo? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Stigmata669 ( 517894 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:12AM (#3105062)
    Maybe I am wrong, but dosn't the Treo [handspring.com] provide all of these features, and the benifit of a widly adopted OS with programs and a computer sync feature? It seems to me to miss alot of the features of the Treo, and not provide a whole lot in return. Save money, maybe, but you still have to cary your palm around.

    • Re:Handspring Treo? (Score:5, Informative)

      by baptiste ( 256004 ) <mike.baptiste@us> on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:19AM (#3105100) Homepage Journal
      Save money, maybe, but you still have to cary your palm around.

      Uh - no. Blackberry's use Puma's Intellisync to sync with Palm data. So you don't need your Palm. But we just got a Treo 180 in this week, and it is a really sweet looking device. The 5810 looks just like my R957 with an ear bud jack :) I love my Blackberry - but I don't think the 5810 is something I'd have to run out and get.

    • Re:Handspring Treo? (Score:2, Informative)

      by wpmegee ( 325603 )
      Exactly. The treo and things like it such as the Palm VII and i705 have thousands of apps available for them. Also, what happens when your RIM's battery dies? There goes a day's worht of email and faxes.

      I'm sticking with Palm OS based PDAs, like my monochrome visor deluxe, at least until color screens get affordable. Also, you can get Palm.net for only $10 a month. Also, the Palm VII is now just $199.

    • Re:Handspring Treo? (Score:3, Informative)

      by imuffin ( 196159 )
      I just got a treo last week and I absolutely love it! As a former Visorphone owner, I can say that it has improved almost every feature that the Visorphone offered.

      The treo doesn't provide all of the features of the blackberry, however. The big draw seems to be the packet switched, always-on network. It would be nice to have a little light start blinking whenever I have an email. With the treo, I have to dial into an ISP and check the mail like I used to do on a computer.

      I guess it wouldn't be too big a deal to setup an email filtering program that automatically sends me an SMS message whenever an email arrives marked urgent, or when it has been sent from specific people.

      I think Yahoo mail already offers a service where if the body of the message contains a specific codeword, it will auto-forward to another email address. This could easily be a cellphone - which would be a great way to get important email immediately.
      • I am considering buying a Treo, but want to hear from early-adopters first. Why don't you post a little more detail about your experience?

        Here are some specific questions:

        What is your GSM carrier and plan, and how are you liking it? I will be using VoiceStream in the Kansas City area, so would be especially interested if that is your carrier. Can you get VoiceStream iStream service on the Treo?

        How annoying is the short battery life? I am not a road warrior, so I can charge my phone nightly. Is that good enough?

        How bad is the rumored problem with "face oil" on the screen from talking on the phone?

        How are you carrying the thing? I am thinking I'll need a belt case, since it isn't going to fit into a hip pocket like my little cell phone.

        Have people gotten tired of you answering the phone by flipping up the cover and saying, "Kirk here?"
        • What is your GSM carrier and plan, and how are you liking it? I will be using VoiceStream in the Kansas City area, so would be especially interested if that is your carrier. Can you get VoiceStream iStream service on the Treo?

          I am using voicestream, and it's fine. I've used Nextel in the past, and, as far as I can tell, Voicestream is just as good. They seem a little cheaper than Sprint (at least when I signed up) and I have so far had no problems. The free weekends are also especially nice for data connections. I find Istream to be completely unnecessary. Voicestream and the Treo install software both claim I have to pay an extra fee for Data service and have my own ISP. That's not true - I followed the directions on this article [visorvillage.com] and connect to the internet in six seconds without paying anything. I can't say how long it will last - but it's great for the moment. One friend suggested voicestream does this on purpose, because it's cheaper for them to provide an ISP than it is to provide an outgoing line out of their network for me to connect to an outside ISP. Interestng idea.

          How annoying is the short battery life? I am not a road warrior, so I can charge my phone nightly. Is that good enough?

          I don't think the battery life is all that short. I think it's rated at something like 2.5 hours of talk time, and a coupla' days standby time. Going for two days is stretching it, but if you charge every night there should be no problem unless you talk on the phone a lot.

          How bad is the rumored problem with "face oil" on the screen from talking on the phone?

          Some people reported that this was a problem with the visorphone. I had a visorphone before my Treo, but never had this problem. On the visorphone, the speaker is angled away, so to hear anything, you have to hold the screen away from your face. The Treo is set up just like a regular flip-phone, so this never becomes a problem. I've been using mine for about a week and have never had this problem.

          How are you carrying the thing? I am thinking I'll need a belt case, since it isn't going to fit into a hip pocket like my little cell phone.

          I just carry it in my pocket. It's larger than tiny cellphones, but not all that much. It also fits comfortably in a shirt pocket. Handspring has a belt-clip carrying case that they're releasing soon, but I don't think I'll need it. I do tend to wear baggy pants, though...

          Have people gotten tired of you answering the phone by flipping up the cover and saying, "Kirk here?"

          Hell no! I even got the Trek Sounds hack [cnet.com] just to be even more geeky, and everyone thinks I'm really cool! :)

          Overall, I love the thing! Making the Visorphone first as a beta test was a really good idea, because it had a lot of flaws, but so far I'd have to say that they've vastly improved almost everything with the Treo.
      • I guess it wouldn't be too big a deal to setup an email filtering program that automatically sends me an SMS message whenever an email arrives marked urgent, or when it has been sent from specific people.

        I have a nice little perl app [binhost.com] that sends an sms message upon receipt of an e-mail. Since it's written in perl it would be fairly easy to add in some sort of filtering ability.

  • Having just ditched my trial Nokia communicator [nokiausa.com] (OK PDA but a crap phone) I'm interested in knowing how the blackberry compares to the Treo [visor.com].
    Anyone tried them?

    Are either any use.
    alnapp

  • Photos (Score:5, Informative)

    by theCURE ( 551589 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:13AM (#3105067) Homepage
    Actually the photos moved to here [rim.net].

  • Looks great? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nakhla ( 68363 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:13AM (#3105068) Homepage
    Hmmm...Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it looks that great. I think it looks like crap. As far as PDA/phone combos go, I think that this model [samsungelectronics.com] from Samsung [samsung.com] looks great. Plus, it's got the useable size and shape necessary for both PDA and phone use, unlike the new blackberry.
    • An ear bud? Excuse me? Is that an advance in design?

      Other than that, it looks like the previous model.

      There's nothing to see here. Move along, folks...
    • Is it just me or does it look like some new MP3 player design. I don't know about the rest of the world, but I don't want to clip my phone/PDA on my belt and walk around like some G-man.
    • I've been using the Samsung i300 that you linked to for the past month or so, and I'm really please with it. It replaced a Samsung 8500 and a Jornada 565 PocketPC (which earlier replaced a Palm V), and I love having to carry only one device. The i300 is buggier than any other PalmOS device I've used (I probably have to reset the thing once per week), Samsung still has not yet released an SDK, and the screen is a bit difficult to view in direct sunlight. But the color screen is great indoors, the form-factor is very user friendly, and like I said earlier, the ability to carry a single small device rather than 2 slightly smaller devices is a big plus for me.
    • It may look great, but did you try the 'Select color' drop down menu? It offers a choice of silver or . . . silver. Reminds me of Henry Ford's offering the Model T in any color you like, so long as it's black.

    • ...I think that this model [samsungelectronics.com] from Samsung [samsung.com] looks great.

      I tend to agree, and the specs are more or less what I want in a PDA with integrated phone. I got excited enough about it to start digging in my wallet for my credit card, then I checked and found that none of the UK networks [samsungelectronics.com] support it. How very annoying...

      Al.

  • You'd be better off long-term with a PDA and a GSM card of some kind, or one of the newer phones marketed with built-in [sagem.com] PDA functionality.

    The way development is moving, the VERY near future should see ALL PDA's (Palm, Pocket PC) GSM equippable - why bother then with an expsensive and proprietary coporate solution ?

  • Can you write an email, and call someone at the same time? That way you'll see blonds driving down the road, talking on their phone, writing an email, and brushing their hair at the same time.

    It is advisible to stay off the road until all of them wreck and the device is outlawed.
  • Blackberrys would be useful IF they didn't require an Exchange (or Notes) back-end!

    Why they can't just allow them to connect using op3 or imap I don't know?
    • Read the press release. They do support POP3 and IMAP.

    • Re:Only Corporate (Score:4, Informative)

      by baptiste ( 256004 ) <mike.baptiste@us> on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:24AM (#3105129) Homepage Journal
      Blackberrys would be useful IF they didn't require an Exchange (or Notes) back-end!

      FUD. Blackberry's come in 'Internet' editions which don't need exchange. You just setup a .forward to your Blackberry email address and go. Setup is done via a web interface to set your From email address (so folks don't know it was sent from the BB), filters to filter what goes to the Blackberry, signatures, etc.

      The Exchange stuff is nice since it controls when email is sent to your BB based on when it's plugged into the dock or not, but I don't mind having most of my email copied to my Blackberry. A coupel quick keystrokes and I can delete most/all the email every couple of days.

  • Why someone would develop a product with GSM/GPRS that doesn't have a tri-band (900/1800/1900Mhz) radio chipset is beyond me. For sure, it costs a little more but mean less hardware localization. And when carriers actually get their shit, together...it gives you potenitally global roaming.

    I'm sorry, but the Treo just seems to make the Blackberry range look pretty lame.

    Just my $0.2.
  • Anyone know the ballpark price for these? I am not going to call an AT&T rep to ask. Is it $200? (probably not) $700? It isn't the most elegant looking device, but for the right price, I would get one.
    • Anyone know the ballpark price for these? I am not going to call an AT&T rep to ask. Is it $200? (probably not) $700? It isn't the most elegant looking device, but for the right price, I would get one.

      Try reading the linkage. $399 w/ service activation (Cingular or VoiceStream) or $549 without new service activation. This is likely to be a bit les for volume.

      Talk to your IT Manager and see if you can talk him/her into beta testing the devices before they start popping up in VP's hands. That's how I got my Blackberry ;)

      • Actually, I did follow the links, and couldn't find any mention of price. They just said to contact ATT or Voicestream. Went there, you had to fill out a request form. Usually in press releases for new items, companies will give you some kind of idea for the price, even the retail price. I went back and checked the links, and still couldn't find the prices you mentioned. Well, it is Monday, and the temp is below zero here in Chicago, so maybe my brain hasn't thawed yet. Thanks for the info fellow /.er


        • ATT is taking info for recall backs - it sounds like they got surprised by the release.

          Currently, it only works in some of ATT's markets - GPS/GPRS ATT coverage or where they have roaming agreements - which means you won't get service everywhere - unlike their current phones - at least not at a no-roaming fee plan, assuming the phone works. Since no mention is made of it being a multi-band phone, I'm guessing it won't be a replacement for existing phones.

          Now, can I get attachments on emails and then beem word/excel documents to my Palm or 568 for editing, and then back to retransmit?
        • Mea Culpa. I'm a dumbass. Those are the prices for the Treo, which I read moments after the RIM stuff, and confused the two. Cnet says: (at the bottom of this article [com.com].)

          "The new BlackBerry is expected to sell in the neighborhood of $499, plus monthly network fees of about $40 depending on use. This compares with the Treo at about $400 plus monthly network charges, or $550 without. "

          Again, my apologies.

  • Not the same network as other Blackberries (Score:5, Informative)

    by nuwayser ( 168008 ) <pete AT tux DOT org> on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:23AM (#3105127) Homepage Journal
    Actually the new puppy uses GPRS [mobilegprs.com] for packet data, not Mobitex [ericsson.com] like the 957 and other older models.

    This actually troubles me somewhat. Read around on the 'Net about what mobile devices worked on 9/11 in NYC, and you'll generally find that Blackberries on Mobitex worked fine while other networks were jammed. Don't know if GPRS (which is really new) would provide the same reliability... anyone know?
    • I think that the non-Mobitex networks were jammed because that's what existing devices work on. Only a relatively few number of devices actually work with Mobitex networks (i.e. the Palm VIIx and the other RIM offerings).

      Mobitex isn't technically superior--it's been around for nearly a decade now, surely--but there's a lot of spectrum allocated to it that's not really being used right now. If they could update their protocol to transmit slightly faster somehow, and if Palm VIIx would bring down their Palm.Net rates ($50/mo unlimited? No f'in way), they'd see their subscriber base increase. (This is what happened with the cell phone providers--as soon as the price came down and acceptance went up, the subscriber base increased, which leads to 'no service' signals at peak hours on cell phone (well, here in central Texas anyway)).
    • Oops, my bad... Just glanced at it and thought it was the same.

  • Java on BlackBerry :( (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dmorin ( 25609 ) <dmorin@gmail . c om> on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:24AM (#3105131) Homepage Journal
    I have a Blackberry. I let work give me one primarily because I wanted to write Java apps for it. They have a Java environment (which is beta or prerelease or some such), and they have documentation which says "And in order to move your java apps to the blackberry you need such-n-such version of the application loader." To date I cannot determine if this app loader exists. Every attempt I've made to look into it results in the same -- "Run it in the simulator." But until I can actually put a Java app on the device, the fact that it's built on Java or not is useless.

    Somebody tell me I've missed something obvious!

    • Re:Java on BlackBerry :( (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Nile ( 53479 )
      Ive done some BlackBerry development myself (about 3 months ago) and after tracking down a bunch of FAQs and mailing list entries I found that RIM discontinued support of Java on their current devices. They still planned on using a Java-only environment on their next-gen devices (like the one just announced) but for now you have to stick with C++.

      With that said, there is a hack someone put together that let's you pull some strings and trick the regular instlaller into install Java apps. You can find it on the developer mailing list archives on the RIM dev site.

  • The difference is... (Score:2, Informative)

    by SkyLeach ( 188871 )
    The big difference between this device and most of the others being mentioned in a lot of the replies is that it is G3 network compliant. As far as the J2ME as an OS, I think that was a bad decision. Integrating the Palm OS gives you support for a lot of existing software AND the J2ME environment. J2ME is a virtual machine; it isn't intended to be a full-blown OS platform.

  • I prefer the Treo (Score:5, Informative)

    by backlonthethird ( 470424 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:25AM (#3105135)
    I've had it for about a week or so now, and it is hands-down the best monochrome PalmOS device I've ever had.

    The Treo matches this RIM feature for feature and surpasses it in a few important areas: Unlike this new Blackberry, the design is such that it is actually useful as a phone--it looks like a phone, talks like a phone, etc. Always-on email is coming with GPRS later this year, and the available Qwerty thumboard is also just as good.

    The Treo is smaller (RIM: 4.6 x 3.1 x 0.7 inches, Treo: 4.3" x 2.7" x 0.7"), it has a touchscreen, runs PalmOS, has 16 megs of ram (RIM: 8 + 1 sdram). There may be more. I can't tell, but it looks as though you may need to use the headset to use the voice capabilities. Treo offers you all three: handset, headset, speakerphone.

    It looks as though the RIM uses GRPS [blackberry.net] [blackberry.net] instad of the Mobitex network. This should mean faster download times than the treo. However, as soon as Handspring gets the firmware update out, it will also be using the same network.

    • Ok, one thing the RIM has is a backlit keyboard. Whoop-de-do.
      • Ok, one thing the RIM has is a backlit keyboard. Whoop-de-do.

        Actually - this is a huge feature. The 957s don't have backlit keyboards and I can tell you its a pain. In a car at night or other dimly lit space - you can read, but not write. I never understood why they didn't create some type of lighting for the keys. When we got a Treo 180 in for an exec, the keys looked like they might be backlit, but nope.

        I agree with you - the Treo 180 is really nice compared to a 957 or the 5810. But I have to admit - the Treo feels very awkward as a phone - its HUGE. I feel like Get Smart talking into a shoe :) I honestly prefer my Blackbeery and tiny Motorola V3682 - when I'm talking on it, its more discreet and comfortable.

  • Cell phones are great for reading email on the go, and SMS is nice for incoming short messages, but it sometimes seems that morse code is more efficient than using your 12-digit keypad to send email. If I want to say "Hello Bob" I have to type

    44#335555556660#22#66622

    That's not very efficient - that's almost 250% the amount of keystrokes. Not to mention the fact that it's not always easy to remember where keys are on the phone. I'll keep my Palm VII for email on the go, thank you very much.

    -Evan
    • Most modern phones feature T9 [t9.com] input technology, allowing you to type MUCH faster than in the old days. It compares what you write with a built-in dictionary in real time and guesses the right word as you type (and about nine times out of ten, it immediately works -- otherwise you can select from other matching words). Go to the site and try it out, they have a live demo.

    • Re:But (Score:3, Insightful)

      by matthew.thompson ( 44814 )
      842817038667023228730#4022609748302063772430948406 630670896667307737737263084281702551***

      Or for those of you without a nokia 6210

      That's funny because I can write a message with one or two more presses and that's all!

      M@t :o)
    • RIMs have full qwerty keyboards. Little ones, but they're actually pretty quick once you get your 'two thumb' typing style mastered.

  • GPRS and always-on (Score:3, Interesting)

    by g.a.g ( 16798 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:30AM (#3105161)
    Yes, the thingy uses GPRS, but have you seen what it costs to get the service? At least here in DK, it's a subscription of 300 DKr/quarter (ca €40), plus a not-so-nominal fee per kb. It racks up quite fast.

    I just got myself an Ericsson T68, but without getting the GPRS service - I'm just not out of reach of a real internet connection often enough for it to be viable. Keep in mind that you always can use the normal internet my phone company offers: you can get the odd email on the phone even with 9.6kbps!

    Just my 0.02kB...

  • 386 based! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Gaewyn L Knight ( 16566 )
    From their press release it says that the new unit is based on an Intel 386 processor. Now from that point of view how long until someone gets linux/bsd/your favorite opensource OS running directly on it.

    I know that myself I would love a wireless handheld with a keyboard that is running linux.

    • Re:386 based! (Score:3, Informative)

      by Jeffrey Baker ( 6191 )
      The 386-based RIM devices have been around fo years, and so far nobody is running Unix on it. I'd say it will still be a while.

      They make it easy to load software onto the device, which comes with a serial cradle and DOS software to load data onto the flash disk. That part would be a piece of cake. But probably the display controller is funky and who knows about the Mobitex comms.
    • I'm not sure - reading their new handheld specs, it shows 386 on the other models but only "32-bit" on the 5810...

      http://www.blackberry.net/products/handhelds/bla ck berry5810.shtml
  • Come on, folks, everytime some article is posted about Java, there are always folks out there who say:

    "Java Sucks, d00d! It's SO SLOW! My mother runs faster than Java! Sun should make it Open Source! Er, free! Er, under full community control! 1337 w4nk3r5 like myself use C! Or better yet, Assembly!"

    Oh, wait, it's being used on a cool device. Guess it doesn't suck so bad now, huh?

    -- Never post before coffee --

  • Palm (Score:1)

    by KDENCE ( 558103 )
    I wonder why Palm hasn't jumped in on this race. I am surprised that it has taken so long for these type of devices to come out. Also, it seems so early in the game that it would almost be to risky to jump into one of either the Treo or this Blackberry.
    Advice: Althought they are behind in coming up with a cobo unit, wait for Palm. Once they come out with one, they'll make it right with all the little cool features that make it worthwhile.

    • Re:Palm (Score:2)

      by RedX ( 71326 )
      Advice: Althought they are behind in coming up with a cobo unit, wait for Palm. Once they come out with one, they'll make it right with all the little cool features that make it worthwhile.

      I'd replace "Palm" with "Sony" in the above sentence since Sony seems to be the true innovators in the PalmOS camp lately. A Sony PalmOS smartphone is what I'm waiting for, but it most likely would be geared for the Japanese market (GSM).

    • Those little Kyoceras running PalmOS looked interesting. I almost got one last time around, but didn't feel like spending quite that much money, and it was kind of huge for a cell phone. I think Sprint has a device like this out too, or something. I'd love to see a true Palm combo device, though, especially if they could make it about the size of an m505, or even a III body.
  • This device and the many like it are all fun in their own context (e.g. the RIM devices are great for corporate use in the US but lousy for anything else). My little Nokia 5510 for instance shows that it's simple to add a full keyboard to a standard GSM/SMS device.

    But it still looks like the killer device will be one that is based on existing networks but is fully programmable, with a half-decent keyboard and screen.

    What I'm _really_ dying to make is a mobile controller for my home P2P box. I think of a search while I'm on the train... I send off a message to my P2P box, which does a search and returns the results. I choose one or two and tell it to start downloading.

    I believe I can do this today with SMS and two phones, one of which is linked to my P2P box. But it would be so much nicer with a mobile Gnutella app!

    I think technology only becomes really popular when it can be used to do illicit things.

  • New RIMs (Score:3, Informative)

    by suckwhat ( 562959 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @09:39AM (#3105206)
    OK, I actually had a RIM 850 for a while (still have it actually, but it's not activated now) and there are a few BIG problems with them: 1) Signal "penetration" - Don't go 6 steps inside a building and expect to carry on a conversation (not that my Sprint POS phone is any better) 2) Frequent crashes - The thing crashed soooo much, you would think it was a M$ product (worked better after I took the slow-a$$ browser off) 3) Range - If you live more than 12 miles from a tower, forget about it, and I'm in a pretty big metro area. My $.02: A great toy, but don't make it your only cell phone, especially if you travel.
  • (J2ME) as its core operating system.

    The Java OS thing sounded bizarre to me, so I went to sun.com and found out that the whole J2ME thing works under Linux or VxWorks : the real OS.

    Do someone has more info on this ?
  • The article is thin on details as to which systems this is compatable with; I know that in my area, the only service availible is thrhough PCS - and yes, I'm looking forward to the day when it isn't so..
  • Some companies have been looking at a variety of subscription models, including pay by minute. vs the bandwidth actually used.

    this is going to put a big crunch into the always on crowd.

    What are the current vibes on this?

  • Motorola V101 (Score:2, Interesting)

    by DickPhallus ( 472621 )
    How does this compare to the Motorola V101 [shoprogers.com]? Has anyone used this phone yet? Supposedly a GSM phone, can do email, sms and all that... and it's only $99.00 CDN with subscription

    As an aside, it's funny how a replacement battery is 99 bucks too, in light of the battery discusion posted earlier.

  • Java on PDA's == Idiotic (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Putting a software CPU (Java virtual machine) on a PDA is idiotic. It is contrary to the development principle of these type of devices, to conserve resrouces. Java VM wastes CPU, Memory (of both types) resulting in an abuntant waste of battery, having less programs and data. Anybody who owns a modern PDA knows how limiting these can be.

    • Re:Java on PDA's == Idiotic (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well, one cool thing that Java buys you is the ability to download apps and run them in a sandbox. No need to worry about wireless viruses.

  • Great device! (Score:3, Informative)

    by c.r.o.c.o ( 123083 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @10:01AM (#3105282)
    A friend of mine works at RIM, and I saw one of these things while it was still in developement. And I have to admit it's one great device. His did not have the Internet enabled, so I couldn't test that, but he said it's identical to the older Blackberry.

    If you liked the Blackberries, then you'll love this thing. It's pretty much identical, only it has a headset jack where you plug in the handsfree mike and earphone.

    Has very good reception (at least in the Toronto and Hamilton area). Also, it has good battery life, although it's far shorter than the email-only Blackberry.

    All in all, a great cellphone, email, internet, PDA. Much better IMNHO than anything out there (Treo, Kyocera, even Nokia)

    • Re:Great device! (Score:2, Informative)

      by SETY ( 46845 )
      I assume it woould be on Rogers. They will have GPRS nation-wide in all markets by the summer. It is in all major cities now. So I'm guessing this thing will work almost everywhere.
  • Sheer perfection. This device does exactly what it intends. It bridges the scheduler/phone/wireless email world perfectly. Nothing one the market is simpler or more functional.

    Kudos to RIM - Im plopping down my $$$ the moment its available.

  • what's next for RIM (Score:2, Informative)

    by oo7tushar ( 311912 )
    Over here in Waterloo we've known about this Blackberry for quite a while (among us UW programmers and all). What we also know about is that RIM really needs this Blackberry to succeed or it's gonna dive.
    They've spent a lot of money buying out other buildings in the area and building a brand new building of their own. Again, like dot coms they've been getting a ton of money and not been producing as much (that's the buzz round abouts).
    I hope for RIMs sake that the new Blackberry's sell really well, I think that price is the only obstacle but it will sell well among their corporate customers.
  • I like the idea of PDA/Cell phone combos, but only if they reduce the amount of crap one has to schlep around in the long run.

    From what I could gather, to use the phone, you MUST plug a headset into the thing. While some people may find it "cool" to have an ugly black cord running from their ear to their pocket all the time, I sure don't. Either that, or you've got to pull the headset out of your pocket, unravel the cord, and stick it in your ear before the party on the other end hangs up.

    This reminds me a lot of the Motorola V200 [motorola.com] which also suffered from the same shortcoming... but at least it has a speakerphone.

    Almost perfect... but not quite.
  • What, are you kidding me? Game Boy Advance goes for 14 hours on it's AA batteries. This is due to advances in efficiency, not batteries. Isn't that what we should be more concerned about?
  • My main problem with the Blackberry is security. The PKI is badly formed, and in fact two RIM engineers could not explain the method used to exchange keys. In examining the protocols, it looks like some of it is in plain text!!

    Out of the 5 security criteria a client of mine looked for, Blackberry only passed 1 so it was discarded as a choice.

    Depends how paranoid you are, though, and this only applies to the email side. (For Info - the winner came out to be iPaq with SecuRemote)
  • I use a RIM 850 pager that I got for business purposes. The writer states that this phone uses the same "packet switched network" as the rest of the blackberry's use. I sure hope not.

    My pager is so bad that it sometimes takes 2 hours for a page to get through - and that's with a full signal! It's so rare that I get a full signal though, it's unbelievable that I get messages at all.

    On top of this, the author mentions "good battery life". My pager literally only lasts 36 hours with a fully charged 1800 mAh NiMH battery. If this is your description of good, well, I don't know what to say.

    To keep things fair, I have used a RIM 950 pager on an evaluation basis, and it did perform somewhat better as far as connectivity, and it had a built in rechargable lithium ion battery. Still - try it before you buy it!
  • The best thing about these puppies is the display. It is a really nice display that is almost as good as paper. It is very sharp and has a most generous viewing angle for LCD - it is visible in almost all lighting conditions (except complete darkness of course!!)
  • Something that pretty much annoys me in mini-keyboards such as mobiles, handhelds and the like, is the keyboard layout. Just as a standard keyboard has been stupidly copied from the old typewriter layouts, the designers copy that same layout over and over again.

    For the PC, there's the alternative Dvorak keyboard, which is that much more efficient. A downside is of course it's language-dependency, but there are a lot of different keyboard types out there now as well (not just qwerty/azerty/qwertzu, but loads of regional variations as well - just look at your keymap files :).

    I wish some manufacturer would go to the trouble to actually do the same to handlheld keyboards - get a functional layout on those things, instead of the legacy thing. If it means I'll be able to type notably faster, I'm more than willing to learn a new layout.
  • So is this a deal [amazon.com]? Too many combo devices and I just don't follow the things... Yeah PCS & Amazon lame...whatever.
    • Yes, that's a pretty good deal. Sprint recently lowered the MSRP on the 6035 since sales have really dropped (competition from the Samsung i300, upcoming Treo devices, etc). The 6035 is larger than the i300 and has no color screen, but Kyocera has actually released an SDK (unlike Samsung) and there is a fairly large user community supporting the phone (www.qcp6035.com [qcp6035.com]). But at that price, it's a cheap way to get a pretty slick PalmOS smartphone.
  • Its interesting that they seem to have skipped the traditional earpiece/mouthpiece and went straight for hands-free (earbud/microphone). I think this is a good move since it removes size as a restriction.
  • What about Danger's Hiptop? Where is it in this fray? it's smaller, lighter, and cheaper than both the Treo and this new B'berry. http://www.danger.com/
  • I run a Blackberry enterprise server for Exchange with 20+ units. The units are exceptional for doing wireless e-mail and are an excellent substitute for a palm. (if you can afford $40US/month for the flat rate e-mail service)

    Carrier:
    The carrier for the 950 and 957 based units is the Conectiv/Bellsouth wireless datanetwork

    http://www.bellsouthwd.com/covapp/start.html

    The carrier for the 850/857 is something else. :) The 8xx series units were made to use a different network with a different frequency that admittedly will suck more juice from the battery. They supposedly support better in building coverage.

    The 850/950 use AA batteries. The 857/957 use an internal battery that (on the 957) can last for a couple of weeks without charging.

    Encryption:
    The encryption is triple DES and is created when you cradle the unit. When you un-cradle the unit the server begins encrypting all messages with that key which is only stored on the handheld and server so it seems pretty secure from random snooping in transit. PIN to PIN messages (directly between handhelds) are encrypted with something along the level of ROT-13 and RIM basically tells you not to use it for secure communication.

    Misc:
    These units are the only solution* that ties into mapi servers/mailboxes. They support pop3, but my company does not, so the blackberry was a natural solution. Anything sent from the BB goes into your sent items in your Outlook mailbox wirelessly. Anything arriving in your Exchange/Outlook inbox is sent to your BB and arrives 10-20 seconds later (on average).

    The connection works between your blackberry server (which is separate from your exchange server, or can be) and srp.blackberry.net on port 3xxx outbound originating, so it is fairly secure from a firewall perspective as well.

    *There are others of course.. vast communications has an expensive solution that is device and carrier independent. (works on palms, my2way, etc)
  • I'm not sure what was meant by the remark:

    This means the email connection is 'always on' and the battery life should be good.

    Now, I love my Blackberry (although, please consider whether you ever want to be this wired), but my reaction is very much to the contrary.

    My experience with my blackberry is that I need to replace the AA almost every other week, even with the "battery saving" option that turns it off at night. I cannot imagine how I could use it in connection with a telephone and expect things to be any better.

  • Danger's Hiptop? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mshomphe ( 106567 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @01:34PM (#3106646) Homepage Journal
    I think Danger's [danger.com] new product, the hiptop [danger.com], is much cooler.
  • I thought Java 2 was a platform not an OS. Can someone enlighten me!
  • The Danger Hip-top [danger.com] seems a much better melding of PDA and phone. The new blackberry just has voice tacked on, and doesn't have the ergonomics of a phone.

    Other advantages of the Hiptop are compatability with instant messaging clients (AIM and Yahoo Messenger, possibly others) and beatnick software for music on-the-fly.

    All this in a smaller package with a smaller monthly fee. The thing looks pretty sweet to me. Now if they'd just get done beta-testing and start shipping, I'd be very happy.

    Oh yes, and it's a lot cheaper too. ($199) Just another cool product from Apple expats.
  • Unless the speaker and microphone are on the back, it looks like this thing needs a headset. Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to get a call on this thing and not have your headset ready? You could perhaps try Morse code to get short messages through to your callers. Dit, dah, dah, ...
  • I wonder what this guy is smoking. It's ugly, just like the original Blackberry.

    I do love mine, and wouldn't give it up for the world, however iPaq and Palm V are great looking, but certainly not the RIM. That and the UI is sub-par, compared to just about anything except for a Casio watch.

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