Unintended Results From U.S. Hardware Dumps In Asia 412
Izeickl writes: "The BBC has a thought provoking story about old hardware being dumped in parts of Asia. The report 'details a group of villages in south-eastern China where computers from America are picked apart and strewn along rivers and fields.' the article also states 'The report suggested that as much as 80% of the America's electronic waste collected to be recycled is shipped out of the country.'"
Farming? (Score:4, Funny)
What are they trying to do....grow more computers?
Archeology (Score:5, Interesting)
I keep having this picture of archeologists in thousands of years in the future going through all of this stuff, and trying to piece together an old PC. no tech manuals, etc.
Alot of their success would depend on the level of their own technology, of course.
Re:Archeology (Score:2, Funny)
Translations (Score:5, Funny)
(A.P. News 25,237 CE)
Archeologists have made a great advance towards understanding the contents of fossilised "hard disks" with the discovery of what they are calling the "Pornsetta Stone"...
Re:Translations (Score:2)
>
> (A.P. News 25,237 CE)
>
> Archeologists have made a great advance towards understanding the contents of fossilised "hard disks" with the discovery of what they are calling the "Pornsetta Stone"...
(A.P. News 25,238 CE)
Jack Valenti DCLXVI, head of MPAGC (Motion Picture Association of the Galactic Confederacy), applauds the Confederacy for passing the SSSCA (Scieno Schutz-Staffel Copyright Act) and declaring archaeology a banned science for its crimes in supporting the actions of "Copyright Terrorists".
On advice of the chief demographer, all archaeologists are to be shipped back to Teegeeack, buried near Hawaii, and thereby blown to smithereens...
India, too (Score:2)
After all, it's just the wogs dying, right?
Re:India, too (Score:3, Informative)
sPh
Re:India, too (Score:3, Insightful)
anyone watch Battle Angel? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:anyone watch Battle Angel? (Score:2, Interesting)
The same theme played out in the fantastic but much overlooked CRPG "Septerra Core."
Re:anyone watch Battle Angel? (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't vouch for an entire culture, but I can speak to this personally.
My TV is a 28" set that was thrown away for a $3.20 vertical deflection IC. The AC cord (because the owner cut the old cord) cost more than the fix. I picked it up because (a) I didn't have a TV, and (b) I figured I'd have more fun, and learn more, by fixing an old one than buying a new one, (c) If I could fix it, it's 100 pounds less landfill. If I couldn't fix it, I'd put it back on the curb where I found it, and (d) I'm a cheap bastard.
My DVD player was born as a P166MMX with an ancient ATI card that had TV-out, but no MPEG2 decoder support. I got lucky and found a BIOS upgrade for the motherboard that would let me run lower voltages required for a K6-III. So now it runs (FSB overclock) at 500 MHz and decodes the stream with brute force. (The only time I got glitches in the video stream was when I forgot to enable DMA mode on the DVD-ROM).
My current computer is 3 years old. It began as a C366. It's now at 1GHz. The only component I've upgraded was the CPU for $50. Won't play Wolfenstein at ultra-high-res, but it's good enough for my computing and gaming needs.
My monitor was a 19" Sony flat-screen CRT. $125 at a surplus store. (And I was able to hand my 17" to a friend.)
Just last weekend, I recovered some data off a 15-year-old 40M Seagate ST-251 and an old '286. (Moral of the story, make two CDs for backing up data, in case one of your CDs gets zorched.) A couple of twists with the wrist to loosen the bearings and get the stiction-killed drive to spin up, and a couple of BIOS-based cylinder seek tests to spread the lube along the rails. (First run, it'd seek OK for a while, then pause for 1-2 seconds on some problematic cylinders. Second run, it got a little "better" at moving the head. 10 minutes later, it was fine. I was amazed.)
Getting more life out of "junk" hardware by fscking around with it can also be fun.
Re:anyone watch Battle Angel? (Score:2)
And why is that? The stories in sci-fi movies and cartoons are written by people who are communicating their ideas and experiences to an audience. Even if they aren't trying to comment on real life, they can't help it because everything they have been exposed to during their lives will shape the characters, settings, and storylines they come up with.
The whole point of analogy is explain one thing in terms of another thing so that someone who doesn't quite get the first might understand the second and see how it connects.
That sucks (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been amassing old computer junk in my closet for years. I'm almost to the point where I was going to pay to have them recycled [ibm.com]. But damn, for all I know, I'm probably just paying for shipment to China!
I think there has to be an upcoming business opportunity in recycling this stuff, and doing it in an environmentally responsible manner. I'd almost be willing to start the ball rolling myself. Any resources out there for learning how to do it?
Re:That sucks (Score:2, Informative)
Re:That sucks (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That sucks (Score:2)
And you can have the piece of mind that your computers will actually be used.
If they want... (Score:2, Funny)
psxndc
Re:If they want... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ships stranding (Score:2, Interesting)
Eat more fish they say... contains no mad cow disease... ha !
Re:Ships stranding (Score:2, Insightful)
Just like the ships (Score:2, Redundant)
Want to find a solution? (Score:2, Insightful)
If we stopped shipping this crap out to other countries, and it started piling up here uncontrollably, I think we'd be forced to find a way to deal with it...it really makes me sick that we use other countries as dumping grounds.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Want to find a solution? (Score:2, Insightful)
graspee
Hardware & the environment (Score:2, Insightful)
The hardware industry should come together and create binding recycling standards. It is sad that there is still a large share of computer companies ignoring environmental concerns.
Re:Hardware & the environment (Score:5, Insightful)
" Convinced that States should take necessary measures to ensure that the management of hazardous wastes and other wastes including their transboundary movement and disposal is consistent with the protection of human health and the environment whatever the place of disposal. "
So it seems that the convention exists, but the US is flatly rejecting accepting it. But I imagine that came as no shock to anyone, as it's not benefitting the US in any way whatsoever, and so is not important. How many times do we need to see the US exploiting the needs of other countries to save a few bucks before we demand that it stops? The US can't run around the world, butting in to conflicts and acting like some sort of benevolent super-sentient being, when during its time off from being a global-cop it likes to dump mercury in Asia. That's just hypocrisy like we've never seen before. USA! USA!
Re:Hardware & the environment (Score:5, Insightful)
To me, this seems like the right way to go, provided that the companies don't just ship the product out of country where it becomes someone else's problem.
If we force manufacturers to charge for the full cost of technology, instead of subsidizing them as tax-payers, then they will tend to develop interesting ways to reduce the cost of recycling. This also lets consumers integrate the price of disposal into the purchasing decision, rewarding companies that have cleaner products.
However, if you want that way 31337 toaster with embedded, overclocked, uranium cooled processor, then you are welcome to it -- provided that you pay for the full cost, including its safe recycling.
Reminds me of recycling in general (Score:3, Offtopic)
But I digress... so, in PA, we're not allowed to throw out computers. We have to take them to recycling centers... well, technically. I still think most people just toss the machines. For the reason that toxic metals will leech into the ground and pollute the water. What a shame that we're shipping all our crap to other countries to pollute.
Wisconsin (Score:2)
In Minnesota, we have strict laws about throwing out old computers too. In some places (Minneapolis), the laws are taken seriously. In other places (northern Minnesota), they aren't.
However, I was talking to someone who had a relative in the computer recycling business. If they recieved anything that had no resale value (and they frequently did), they'd just ship it to Wisconsin, which has lax landfill laws.
out with the old (Score:4, Informative)
Re:out with the old (Score:2, Troll)
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's new or newsworthy.
You come across as rather self-aggrandizing as well as patronizing.
First, if you know this is occurring all along and think it's a problem, I would imagine that you would be happy to see this get publicity in order that perhaps some corrective action might be taken. Instead you take the opportunity to point out that you personally knew about the "disposal of computer" problem beforehand, so everyone should have already been aware of it.
Anything that a large part of the population doesn't already know may well be considered newsworthy. Perhaps you should have said that it is sad that this *is* newsworthy.
Secondly, a visit to a particular less-developed countries does not automatically confer knowledge of various environmental disasters in all other countries. Your post really had the tone of "all eco-disasters in third world countries are alike". Each problem may have a separate cause and sure as anything has a different solution. Certainly, different disasters are worth different stories. I'd hate to think a single "Western goods cause echo-disaster" story is all one needs to know on the entire subject.
Lastly, the Americans may be famous for their insularity, but I'd bet money that the BBC was mostly addressing this to Europeans that were unaware of the problem. I know from personal experience that they could certainly have addressed this particular issue to Canadians.
Re:out with the old (Score:2)
doesn't mean it's OK
Full Report Details (Score:3, Informative)
I think two points are worth noting - firstly, for better or worse, the source of the report and its tone are set firmly within the environmentalist camp.
Secondly - this problem is probably the tip of the iceberg, and is certainly a very real threat to the environment in the next few decades. I personally believe we should take significant action now to prevent the need for another Kyoto (where this would be a serious issue) ten years from now.
Just curious... (Score:2)
Regulation is on the way (Score:2)
The question is, if I want to keep the hardware I buy in the closet forever when I'm through using it, do I still have to pay the fee?
They would do better to offer refunds (Score:4, Insightful)
That way people would have an incentive to do the right thing instead of just dumping it someplace and the program would pay for itself due to inflation and the fact that not EVERYONE is going to recycle, even if it pays.
As for the inflation angle, it works like this. If someone pays you X number of dollars and Y number of years later you pay them back the same exact ammount of money, well then you're actually paying them X/(inflation_rate^Y) in real dollars. This is why you almost NEVER see interest free loans, the lenders lose money on them. In the case of computers, the lifespan is short enough that the devaluation of the money from inflation would not be so great as to reduce it to nothing.
Lee
Re:They would do better to offer refunds (Score:2)
Make that X/((1+inflation_rate)^y). So with an inflation rate of three percent its X/(1.03^Y). If you don't add in the one you end up with a lot MORE money than when you started, not less.
Lee
Re:They would do better to offer refunds (Score:2)
Hmmm...like a bottle bill [bottlebill.org] for computers. I like it!
Getting rid of the stuff (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Even worse than medical waste.... (Score:2, Interesting)
The situation is quite frightening. Consequently, the groundwater (near Guiyu, China) is so polluted that drinking water has to be trucked in from a town 18 miles away, the report said.
These "high tech" waste is especially hazardous to these poor workers. Medical waste (eg used bandage) usually smells and look nasty, everyone know they are dirty. Villagers usually have no clue toxic heavy metal will leak to groundwater, burning the plastic will generate very toxic smoke... before too late.
Probably, it is now to add a "prepaid" waste recycling fee to new computers....
Re:Even worse than medical waste.... (Score:2)
Whats wrong with selling it on eBay? (Score:2)
Title. (Score:2)
After all, speaking as the Ugly American that I am, it seems that the main point is to get the crap we don't want out of the country. Well, shit, mission accomplished there, huh?
What happens to it afterward is not our problem. And frankly, I live in an area once known for its steel foundries, and never known for environmental consciousness.
--saint
I thought recycling meant reusing. (Score:4, Interesting)
These kinds of things really tick me off. I've recycled numerous old systems, in the hopes that they either went to some good, or were safely broken down, to be used in other applications. Instead, they probably just got dumped in a landfill.
I guess I shouldn't be so surprised, these types of things always happen with recycling. Recycled papers sit in warehouses because companies don't frequently buy post-consumer stock. Glass & tires that were originally planned to be melded together to make a new, cheap pavement wind up sitting in their respective piles. Tires that were supposedly going to be used for recreating habitats for aquatic life are instead burned.
And now, all our old 286s are dumping mercury & lead into China. If my old Vendex Headstart 8086 is sitting over there, instead of being recycled, I'll be very, very upset.
Is there anything we can really do to ensure that our equipment doesn't wind up in some other country's landfill??
And the point is ??????? (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes I know this is bad for the enviroment, but the simple fact is its not like China is colony of the US and we are forcing th govt to accept the waste, THEY ARE BEING PAID !!!!!
If CHINA chooses NOT to give a shit about its citizens it on them, and THEY should have to answer for it.
This is NOT about the US, get it understand it and live with it.
Now, the people, well thats unfortunate, it really is, BUT IT THEIR GOVERMENTS(CHINA) FAULT !
Wide spread mass industrial pollution with NO regard to the enviroment is seen on both ends, the capatilist and the COMMUNIST side, the latter aswers to noone and it is thus a fair bit worse in general, no dont belive me ? Ask all the people in eastern europe what things were like during USSR rule.
Ok, so you want an alternative use ? Lets drop all this crap out of B52's on Iraq, and all the US enemies, a hell of a lot cheaper than smart bombs, could you imagine what damage a monitor would do falling form 30000 feet ?
Re:And the point is ??????? (Score:2, Troll)
I think I'm experiencing what we Europeans call an Ugly American moment.
It'll pass.
Re:And the point is ??????? (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, I guess thats the problem in the United States. Everyone is saying recycle, recycle, but no one (except maybe Cali or Oregon) gives you convenient resources to actually do it. If I wanna recycle my plastic I have to drive to some distanct Wal-Mart with a trunk full of trash to do so.
JOhn
Re:Should we bomb them to get them to stop? (Score:2)
I think the point is, if China is going to harm their (our) environment with this stuff, we should stop selling it to them.
Your 'buyer beware' argument only works up until that 'buyer' is someone you care about. Clearly, you don't care too much for (the government of, I hope) China, so your argument is likely biased to begin with, but you have to accept an ethical responsibility for providing access to things that certain societies are not fit or experienced enough to handle maturely. (Or lack the proper infrastructure to handle.)
Probably the funniest thing is, if you hate the government so much, and knowledge that its a totalitarian regime, and accept that the garbage is indeed hurting the
First you bash their government, saying the people don't deserve it, and then you shrug your shoulders and keep feeding the people of China your shit. Your disregard for Chinese citizens with respect to this issue is just as blatent (if on a smaller scale) as that of the Chinese Government according to you.
Re:And the point is ??????? (Score:2, Offtopic)
WWI: 80,000 US dead. 5,000,000 Russian dead. A million or two dead in each of Britain and France.
WWII: 385,000 US dead in both theaters. Millions of Russians died on Germany's Eastern front and they, not the US, were largely responsible for Germany's defeat.
Belittling the contributions of those countries who lost millions of dead in those two conflicts does no honor to those of our own country who died in those two conflicts.
Yawn, off topic rant, etc. (Score:2, Insightful)
This gets modded up? This is a tired, stupid argument.
If it wasn't for the Europeans (aided by the middle east and asia), Americans, ugly or otherwise would be hunting buffalo (and I'd be spearing kangaroos), so no internet for you without the eurotrash.
Reading a few history books suggests that one or two Russians died in WW2, but other then them I'm sure that the USA did it all. Of course, if it was announced that America would stand against Hitler as soon as he started, it is quite possible that a great deal fewer people would have died (and almost certainly no Americans...). However there was no real rush, as no-one was dropping bombs on their homes, nor driving tanks through their streets.
That the terrible suffering and infinite loss of those involved should be sullied by some prat who is quite happy to slur his own and another country's government, but gets upset when someone else offers up their opinion, is sickening, and shows a total lack of understanding, tolerance and maturity, I guess that is what scores on /. though...
I was going to make an on topic comment here, but
Re:And the point is ??????? (Score:2, Redundant)
I am the farthest thing from an environmentalist (I still have yet to see a clear cut case for or against global warming), but pollution isn't a "China" or "US" problem, it's a world problem. When Chernobyl blew up, it dumped fallout all over, not just Russia. It wasn't "their" problem, it was everyone's. The same can be said for the oceans and I'm sure people can make cases for the land.
psxndc
Re:And the point is ??????? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's why we create international treaties for these problems, that every countries ratify (except the US when the obligation would cost money to US companies).
not a suprise really (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Are there *any* international conventions (Score:2)
I can't be arsed remembering the link though.
Re:Are there *any* international conventions (Score:2, Flamebait)
Those which suit US interests at the time and those which were created by the corporate masters of the US government, maybe...
Misleading story? No guilt! (Score:3, Insightful)
How is my problem if people in other countries, far, far away, don't care as much about "preserving their scenic countryside" as they do about eating?
Don't Recycle, Donate (Score:5, Insightful)
Or try here [compududes.com] or here [eiae.org], just to name a couple.
Doesn't Work that Way (Score:5, Interesting)
The company I worked for before that had tried to donate 200 computers and a full TK ring network with switches and wiring... they turned their nose up because it meant they would have to hire a network admin slash support person to run it... this is a rural school district with almost no computers and some of the lowest SAT/ACT scores in the stat of Illinois.
My best friends wife's company tried to donate pallet loads of computers and office furniture (they make it in Iowa) to their local school district... same thing, no interest.
For every school that is progressive and interested in donations in this country, there are four who would rather not. Piss on our education system, the liberal economy and politics of the 70's and 90's has totally screwed this country... we have gone from #1 to #11 in the world.
Re:Doesn't Work that Way (Score:3, Insightful)
they turned their nose up because it meant they would have to hire a network admin slash support person to run it
Piss on our education system, the liberal economy and politics of the 70's and 90's has totally screwed this country
You lost me - what's the connection between anything that happened in the '70's and '90's and what kept these donations from being accepted? (And why, then, are the '80's immune?)
Re:Doesn't Work that Way (Score:3, Funny)
Reagan. He is a republican god and in the time of reagan the us was a perfect place to live. Nobody ever got hurt, nobody was hungry, everybody had a job, everybody was happy. I believe that the suicede rate reached 0% in the 80's. I also think there were no fires and no crime. My text books don't say any of that but I am pretty sure that's due to the liberals rewriting history. Those god damned teachers and ruining this country (well them and all the fags).
Re:Doesn't Work that Way (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny how a lot of the countries who beat the US in education also have liberal economy and politics, even more so than the US. I don't think "liberal" anything has very much to do with it.
Re:Don't Recycle, Donate (Score:2)
I know of several HS's that refuse "old" hardware for the simple reason that they don't need it. They are looking for higher-end systems. Old 486's and even low-end P5's aren't worth it.
They get enough donations of real hardware and real moeny to buy some decent computers.
They will just probably end up in the heap as well
I will continue to load up my closets w/the junk. I somehow always find a use for most hw.
Based on that headline..... (Score:2, Funny)
Big deal, it just looks like my basement :) (Score:2, Insightful)
Because this recycling business is driven by fear of a shortage instead of a real shortage, there is not money to be made in it so stuff like this happens.
Why dump them? (Score:2, Insightful)
And our culpability in this is...? (Score:4, Interesting)
2. While the cities I've been to in the last five years have considerably cleaned up their act, China still has an enormous problem with littering. Ever seen the commercials showing the roadside trash from the early 70's in America? That's China nowadays.
3. Many electronic components are desoldered and reused by small mom-and-pop outfits that want to get into business, and don't mind cheaper used components. When you've got lots of people who want to get ahead in life, they will use any resource at their disposal.
Oh come on (Score:5, Insightful)
1. We are not forcing this old hardware on anyone. If it's ending up in China or India it's because the people there think they can make some money off of it.
2. Even if they CAN make some money off of it, it's not our fault they throw the exploited "recycled" hardware in rivers. Come on. Crap in your refrigerator and it's going to have some negative affects on your food. Don't complain to someone else because you decided to crap there.
3. If the Chinese government sees this as a problem they should not let the stuff be imported. If it's being imported illegally the Chinese government should have no problem prosecuting (i.e., executing) the offending party.
Do I want my old computer ending up in a river? No. But don't blame me if it does, *I* didn't throw it in a river or asked anyone to burn plastic off its wires...
There are too many other responsible parties here that are DIRECTLY responsible to come after me with some tax or $30 increase on PC sales to try to resolve the problem. You want to solve the problem? Have China ban the practice. If China doesn't see it as a problem then why the hell should we?
Come on, I'm sick of this environmental psycho-babble.
Re:Oh come on (Score:2)
hahaha. I love it.
1. Story might somehow implicate the US as slightly less than innocent.
2. People go on about how fucked up China is with human rights abuses.
3. People go on about how if China doesn't see anything wrong with it, why should they.
The hypocracy is beautiful. Keep it comin'. The US has to send an army into every country that isn't sufficiently 'free'
And some Americans continue to wonder why their country has a repulation for being internationally ethical when it's purely self-serving. (Not that any government is an angel, but the words co-operation, compromise or sacrifice are considered dirty words as soon as there is some suggestion that the US might have room to alter their policies for the better.)
Re:Oh come on (Score:2)
Be careful what you throw away. Old wastes have come back to haunt many and the cleanup bill can be devestating.
Re:Oh come on (Score:2)
Come on. You want it sent off to the cheapest "waste disposal" or "recycling" company in China, and then you want to pretend that you don't know what they'll do with it ?
There are too many other responsible parties here that are DIRECTLY responsible to come after me with some tax or $30 increase on PC sales to try to resolve the problem.
The parties that produce the waste are responsible for safely disposing of it. Having China "ban" it does not solve anything, because you're still going to use the lowest bidder as your "waste disposal" company, and it will end up in a river in some other country.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wrong Analogy... (Score:2)
First, the article does not say that the sovereign state of China buys it. Second, "China" is not a person. The analogy is just fine. You're paying some company in China to dump it in someones back yard.
Re:Oh come on (Score:4, Informative)
Stop shipping garbage that''s loaded with heavy metals and poisons to the second-most unethical country in the world? Hell, no! WTF would any American care about the deformed babies that will result?
Only thing less ethical than a country that would allow a business to accept that shit and scatter it into the rivers, is the country that allows a business to send that shit there in the first place.
I think it was a cooperative effort with NYTimes (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/25/technology/25
NYTimes registration yadda-yadda-yadda.
Draw a parallel (Score:4, Insightful)
It may sound like twisted logic at first, but think about it.
Country A produces a product that it ships to country B. This product is used by the poor in country B to make some money, but in the process they end up hurting their own communities. Not only that, this product spreads, causing harm in more affluent communities living further away.
Replace "A" with Colombia and "product" with drugs and you have the current drug war.
Or, replace "A" with US, "product" with toxic waste, and you have the current toxic waste dumping scenario.
Think about it.
Re:Draw a parallel (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Draw a parallel (Score:2)
I'm surprised anything of value can be recycled from an old computer. Aluminum cans, paper, I can see that. PCBs and old chips? I wouldn't have even imagined.
I throw my old computers into the trash after I break the case and PCBs into small enough parts that they can comfortably fit into the trash bag.
What blows me away is that they can actually eek enough money out of the small quantities of precious metals to make it worthwhile to ship the thing over to China. Personally, I think they should spend more time investigating where those PCs (being "recycled" in China) really come from. I'd be surprised if they really come all the way from the United States or Europe. I suspect the PCs are more local in origin. Either China itself or perhaps SE Asia. But shipping an old busted and relatively heavy PC across the Pacific to China to extract $5 worth of "precious metals" just doesn't seem to make economic sense to me.
I think if someone can say, with authority, what the value of the "precious metals" in a typical PC are we could establish a maximum perimeter that defines where the PCs could be coming from--i.e., where shipping cost
Message from China (Score:2, Funny)
Yours,
Junis
Canada exports waste to U.S. (Score:2)
My experience in DIY electronics recycling . . . (Score:2, Insightful)
Although we often think of motherboards as the thing that holds the CPU, in fact monitors also have motherboards and even your power supply has a little motherboard in it.
One thing these motherboards or printed circuit boards all have in common is that they generally have all kinds of goodies like capacitors and transistors on one side and a bunch of solder holding them on from the back side.
By heating the back side of a printed circuit board with the component side facing down, it is quite possible and practical to remove many valuable and toxic components without damaging them because of the delightful fact that heat tends to rise rather than sink, so by heating the back of the board, you can save all those great little toys. This activity in itself can be quite entertaining. I like to call it "el bueno pinata" because the parts fall to the ground with a delightful clatter like the candy from a pinata with severed entrails.
I must confess that when I started playing "el bueno pinata" as a youngster, I did, in fact, use a propane torch which generated generous amounts of rather toxic smelling smoke. As this is both a cheap and effective technique for getting started in "el bueno pinata," it is probably what the report was referring to.
But let's not just jump to the conclusion that this means it's wrong to try and recycle components that have previously been soldered to a PCB. It just indicates that these people are hesitant about going about it the right way because they haven't seen enough profits yet. But don't worry. There's plenty of room for profits in the recycled electronics market and as the profits grow, the recycling techniques will become more sophisticated as mine have.
I no longer use a propane torch when I play "el bueno pinata" because there were simply too many complaints about the smell and the smoke etc. So, I tried a few different techniques. I tried using a clothes iron, but I found that it wasn't hot enough. Eventually I rigged up a custom device very similar to an iron, but with a greater heat output and I now use that to slowly and smokelessly desolder old TVs, monitors and power supplies. These are generally where the fun is at for my interests so far. But even if you don't want to get into tesla coils and all that nerd stuff, you can at least blow up the capacitors for fun and give the transistors to someone who enjoys such toys.
Once you clean the components off a circuit board, there's not much left and putting it in a landfill doesn't seem to be such a crime although I'm sure they could be further recycled for the metal sandwiched within the board. Either way, the mass is greatly reduced and many valuable parts that are usually for the most part in working condition can be used as is.
In the case of a monitor, all you're left with is a bunch of plastic and the tube itself which certainly should be recycled professionally as it has lots of valuable goodies within. Stripping it to that point though, is certainly worth doing if you care about the recycling and are interested in learning a bit about electronics.
As for power supplies, after you strip out the transformers, capacitors, transistors there's nothing left.
In fact, motherboards may be the most useless pieces of the whole PC for the average PC enthusiast while ironically being the only piece that most people care to deal with because of the warnings on all the fun stuff about "Dangerous Whoo Hoo Inside" It's a pity that the industry assumes everyone should stay and idiot instead of trying to educate the public about how they could safely repurpose some of those parts.
But that's what's cool about Slashdot. It makes up for where the PC industry left to its own devices fumbles the play.
Anyway, couldn't rant like this without at least one reference and that would have to be Sam's Repair FAQs. If you've never checked them out, then I highly recommend them.
For those of you with old hardware laying around, especially burnt our monitors and power supplies, I invite you, moreover I grant you permission to play "el bueno pinata"
clothes, cars go south of border (Score:2)
Re:clothes, cars go south of border (Score:2)
How do other countries handle this? (Score:2, Interesting)
Also reminds me of something that happened while I was visiting a client in Tokyo.... while riding the high-speed train to the convention center... he pointed to the land surrounding the convention center and said "this used to be ocean... how do you think we got this land?"... I said "I dunno"... He said "every year japaneese throw out old electronics and buy new electronics. We put electronics in bay and build convention center on top.".
Now... I never knew whether or not he was serious - I suspect he was... .but after reading the article - and pondering this... isn't that bad for their environment?
US Goverment (Score:2)
This site is in Germany.
Re:US Goverment (Score:2)
Re:US Goverment (Score:2)
Make the manufactures consider disposal (Score:2, Interesting)
Think about it. GE should be the one to pay for getting rid of CFC's from the refrigerators that they manufacture. This would force them to either raise the price of what they sell, or find a better way to manufacture it (without CFC's for instance).
Computers are built with the knowledge that they will be obsolete in a few years, so it should come as no suprise that if they sell X number of machines in one year, that in 3-4 years that many machines will need to be recycled.
At the very least, a law like this would prevent AOL from producing millions of disks that get thrown into the garbage unopened, or from someone even proposing a throwaway product like DIVX (old DIVX, not new Divx
On a related note..... (Score:2)
"Amsterdam, where is Amsterdam?"
response:
"I think thats Holland."
I stared at them trying to figure out if it was a joke. It wasn't.
This is one of the reasons why stuff like us pawning our trash off to thrid world countries is going on, people in America have no clue what the impact of their behaviors and decisions on the rest of the world are, because many have no memory that the rest of the world really exists, at least apart from the commercials.
It is truly frightening. I mean there is a lot of talk about how you know, high tech stuff is not allowed in our landfills, so people go around thinking, well cool. They just dont realize it was all slapped on a barge with a small check attached and given to someone else to deal with.
Now wheres the remote..?
Labor and Materials Costs (Score:3, Insightful)
One day, in a major city, I was walking near the river, and came across a small road where dozens of older men were squatting with old circuit boards and soldering irons. They would unsolder resisters, capacitors, etc, and place them into bins according to the kind of component.
A few streets further down, I came across another group of old men. These guys were pulling apart what looked like damaged automobile transmissions. One set of guys unscrewed, decoupled, and removed pieces, one set of guys cleaned the grease off of them, one set of guys sorted the parts (gears, synchros, etc) according to their size and level of damage.
It really got me thinking. Here in the States, you don't even think of repairing broken consumer electronic stuff -- it's cheaper to get a new one, and it'll probably have more features. There, the labor costs are virtually nil in comparison to the cost of the materials.
It made me think that there was a valuable process at work. Our garbage was recycled, and it actually benefits someone. Now, it is clear that this is an artifact of an unfair, unjust system. Obviously, fixing the overall system would be better. But within the context of the way things currently are, it's a reasonably good thing.
Why? (Score:2)
I understand someone puting the full text of an artical up when the source site is slow. But, this is from a BBC site, why can't people just read it on the original sources page?
Re:WTC waste (Score:2)
There are millions of tons of steel that would be much better served being melted down and put back into good use, than to sit in a landfill, left to rust.
[humor hat]
So I guess according to you when ever I buy something, the seller is actually dumping on me... yuck.
[/humor hat]
Re:WTC waste (Score:2)
Re:Slanting Articles (Score:5, Insightful)
What's worse about this case is we know that the Chinese government will not dispose of this responsibly, but instead leave the stuff to poison their own people. Yet we still keep sending it to them. Can there be any other explanation other than that we just don't care about those people? It does not make it any more moral when some American idiot like you (correctly) observes that their own government doesn't care about them either. Hell, let's sell S. Hussein some biowaste so he could poison those annoying rebels. Hell, once he hands us the check, it's out of our hands, right?
Re:Slanting Articles (Score:2)
Nothing to be proud of here. The USA may be #1 in foreign aid in an absolute sense, but if you calculate it as a percentage of the GNP, it's not all that much. Look up the numbers if you don't believe me.
Re:Slanting Articles (Score:2)
Try and get that one past the human subjects guidelines in America. Good luck! You might consider it ethical, but fortunately, the research community here does not.
But Dr. Spork, idiots like you (normally I don't flame, but I do believe in "tit for tat") feel that personal responsiblity extends only to things that you don't find too confining, or too difficult to do.
I think you've got that wrong. People like you want to create waste, and not take responsibility for its disposal. You also want to hold ordinary Chinese citizens responsible for the actions of companies that they can't control.
The government has come up with a solution, we are not responsible for all the worlds ills.
Dumping your shit in someone elses back yard is not a "solution". Your red herring about grain is just that.
As I stated earlier (something you failed to address) it isn't as if we are the ones spreading it on the countryside, we pay them money to dispose of the stuff. At that point (believe it or not) It's the responsibility of the ones taking the money to do the right thing by it.
Nonsense. If you pay the lowest bidder to dispose of your waste, and you know that they're cheap because they're dumping it in the river, you are responsible. It's like hiring mercenaries to drive people off your land, and claiming that it's the mercenaries responsibility to do it ethically.
Re:Slanting Articles (Score:2)
Wrong! But thanks for playing...
Companies in China, India, etc. buy these items at auctions. They recycle some of the stuff.
Re:How about Europe? (Score:2)
Much worse stuff goes on with European ships on the scrapping beaches in India and other places. Hundreds of people die just to take those things apart, something that would cost millions to do "by the book" in a western country.
So yes, Americans aren't the only shitheads regarding this.
Re:Recycled=Dumping? (Score:4, Insightful)
The old 360 was crated up, and sent to Altanta GA, from there it was to put aboard a ship (Savannah?) and sent to Hong Kong, where I was told families bid on parts of the system. The families would take home their share and, like a cottage industry, strip it down to it the various recycleable parts. (I was told the 360 had a significant amount of gold in it.) From there the valuable amount would be sold, no mention of what became of the remainder. This would appear to be where it went, tossed into a river, rather than the families paying someone else to cart away what they couldn't sell.
So rather than blaming the US, in general, you might want to start by considering the people who buy these things and toss the remnants, or the middlemen who make a living carting it there to auction off to them. Taiwan, as I've heard, has a serious problem with metals in their water, from industrial production and probably lack of a well organised, legal and ethical means of disposal. Even dumping old capacitors in the sea could return PVP's and other compounds in fish and shellfish, which many of these communities depend upon heavily.
Blame the US? Re:Recycled=Dumping? (Score:2, Insightful)
So?
Of course you said: in general.
Its not the US in general which is to blame.
So we have electronic waste in china. Asbest waste in India. A raising level of sea water all over the world (climate/CO2), threatening Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia etc.
So in 15 years some people, yellow this time, not with long beards and turbans, will go somewhere where they suspect to be the cause, the root of all evil. There they will drop a bomb or something similar.
And then we will read again: why do they hate us?
Well, because their children died in the polution of heavy metals, their parents died by cancer caused by asbest or burning plastics, their family or friends drunk in a Taifun.
But
Regards,
angel'o'spehre
Hm