Panasonic Dual-LCD PC 296
FreeBSD-RockS writes: "Panasonic released a desktop PC called Panacom LC/W with two 15-inch (1024x768) LCD monitors arranged side by side. The LCD screens can be arranged so that they can be used either in a portrait or a landscape form. The new model will be put on sale on March 8 and the retail price through direct marketing is around $2000 USD."
Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, the PC will eventually (rapidly?) become obsolete... While the LCDs would be a hot piece of hardware for much longer.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:1)
Get just the multiple monitors... (Score:4, Informative)
Then simply go to Mass, Inc. [massmultiples.com] and pick a system with up to 4 15- or 18-inch LCD screens. I'll take the C3H18 [massmultiples.com], thank you.
(This was posted previously [slashdot.org] on Slashdot, but it took me a while to find it.)
Re:Get just the multiple monitors... (Score:2)
Anyone actually used one of these LCD systems? Are they of good quality?
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:3, Funny)
You have just described the Outbound Laptop [applefritter.com] almost perfectly. I don't know that anyone actually hung the monitor on the wall, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't. The Computer is built into the monitor, without adding much bulk.
P A N O R A M (Score:3, Informative)
Dual head. (Score:1, Redundant)
Two thousand dollars does seem a bit steep, though. I wonder what other sorts of features are included? Hell, I could get a freshly discontinued G4 and two Apple 15 inch studio displays for that, and Apple kit is generally a bit higher in price than this sort of thing.
--saint
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
Oh, and before I'm told to RTFA, it's Slashdotted. Badly.
Though I'm sure the display on the server is right purty.
--saint
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
Old news. Havn't you people seen a Bloomberg? (Score:2, Informative)
Consider the total real estate available to me. I have an 18" LCD with a total area of about 168 square inches (usable). Plus a pair of 14" LCDs for nearly 200 square inches. The point being, for a large spreadsheet the 18" is clearly superior. If however, you need to watch two things at once (2 web pages or 2 spreadsheets or 1 and 1 whatever) the two smaller screens are FAR superior. It all depends what you're using the screens for.
http://www.bloomberg.com/corp/profservice/profe
Re:Dual head. (Score:4, Informative)
My only word of caution: Having an odd number of displays is highly recommended as you won't have the border of two displays in the center of your vision. It's very distracting.
Dell 19" Trinitron [dell.com]
Matrox G450 [matrox.com] (because it has dual VGA instead of dual DVI like the G550)
Image of my 3200 x 1200 desktop [stoneward.com] (with GTPlanet active desktop (that I made))
~LoudMusic
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
Before this I was running a GeForce 256 and an ATI All-In-Wonder (PCI), with a 19" and a 17". It was very nice being able to set different resolutions and position the smaller monitor at any point along side the larger monitor. It allowed me to keep a [near] consistant 'pixel per inch' ratio across both displays.
I'm glad you brought that up
~LoudMusic
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
~LoudMusic
Re:OT: AGP (Score:2)
~LoudMusic
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
~LoudMusic
Re:Dual head. (Score:2)
~LoudMusic
slashdotted? (Score:1)
Re:slashdotted? Sure, but Google can find it... (Score:2)
Cute, but... (Score:2)
Not to mention that the PC that's at the heart of that system will become obsolete long before the LCDs will.
Re:Cute, but... (Score:2, Informative)
More esotheric problems (Score:2)
I'm thinking of more esotheric problems - unless your video card has dual outputs, you'll need a second video card. I've not seen any motherboards, Mac or PC - that have dual AGP slots. This would affect performance on that second display.
There's also the fact that two displays do not a large desktop make, necessarily. I know I'd rather have a large, contiguous workspace rather than have two clearly separate and spaced-apart screens.
Granted, this is splitting hairs I guess and each side has it's pros and cons and depends wholly on your needs and preferences. I'm just stating my opinion on this arrangement... :)
Re:More esotheric problems (Score:2)
Maybe I'm just picky - I'd love to have one huge assed monitor that's equally fast... But that's where the price comes in to consideration. :(
WooHoo!! (Score:4, Funny)
Another good use... (Score:3, Funny)
Wide posts (Score:2, Informative)
He hasn't done a single one yet.
I love trolls as much as the next guy, but this ruins it and makes me browse at 0.
Fight back!
Manual page breaks in all posts, now!
Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, what I want is a trifold laptop. Currently, laptop size is limitted by screensize. (See the picturebook or libretto for proof.) With a trifold, you could have a laptop the size of the picturebook (2.2 lbs, 1024x480 screen) with
Adam
Laptop size limitations (Score:2)
What bugs me about sub-notebooks is the keyboard size. If that could trifold, but still be rigid enough for me to do my normal pounding on, then you'd have something.
Re:Laptop size limitations (Score:2)
I said that myself, when buying a picturebook. Admittedly, it's a great short-term solution. But the simple fact is that sitting too close to a monitor wears your eyes out faster; you get more tired reading characters
Re:Laptop size limitations (Score:2)
Re:Laptop size limitations (Score:2)
Opened, the moveable halves slide outward and together, creating a full-width keyboard, in a laptop that was less than a full keyboard width wide when folded. Very cool!
Re:Laptop size limitations (Score:2)
Re:DDC (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
Its a nice idea, but I'm going to keep waiting for the PC on a single sheet of plastic that I can just roll-up and go
-Spyky
LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
Of course, there are higher-end LCDs out these days like the Apple Cinema Display that come ever closer to surpassing CRTs on this front. The other features certainly are no comparison!
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:4, Informative)
Apple's LCDs are among the best available, but for critical work, even they are not always good enough.
While the gap is closing, LCDs simply lack the wide color gamut of CRTs. Of course, all the other benefits of LCDs vs. CRTs apply.
Digital photographers are a very picky bunch, and most still prefer CRTs. I use my Mac for exactly this, and I'm using a CRT myself. I'll more than likely get an LCD soon enough, but I won't be tossing my CRT out just yet, either.
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
A) I don't think that guy even read your first comment
B) What kind of CRT are you using on your Mac? I purchased a whole slew of Sony G500s for my Agency's G4 workstations. They eat up a bunch of desk space, but the color, resolution, refreshrate, and expense are far and away better than any pannel I've ever seen.
~LoudMusic
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
The problem is that as a secondary input, the Mac signal is really hosed somewhere - there's ghosting on the monitor. I've tried multiple cables, including gold-plated and shielded and nothing helps. Careful tuning of the monitor doesn't help much either. The only thing that I've noticed is that the lower the resolution and refresh, the better the image is. I'm thinking that this Sun monitor might not quite be the same as it's Sony counterpart (which is definately Mac friendly) as far as specifications and signal handling might go.
As it is, I'm limited to 1280x1024 as at 1600x1200 I'd go blind. The Sun works great on the same monitor ar 1600x1280. Notice the not-so-same resolution ratios... Therein, somewhere, I think - lies the problem.
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
If your monitor is the flat CRT Trinitron, then it's the one a bunch of people are using. Dell, HP, Compaq, Sun, SGI
~LoudMusic
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
I suppose the second input might be hosed somehow, though. This monitor really *should* be able to handle the Mac signals quite readily.
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
There is no such thing as a "Mac signal". VGA is VGA is VGA
~LoudMusic
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
You're right, the "signal" is universal in that it's either VGA or some other VESA standard, etc.
I'm talking more about the Mac's output matching the monitor's capabilities. For example, on the Sun at 1600x1280 the monitor is fine, but on the Mac at 1600x1200 it is not. I'm thinking the aspect ratio or resolution here is the issue...
But on either machine at 1280x1024, the problem is still there, so that can't be the problem. I'm beginning to think you're right that the monitor or the Mac is b0rked, and I'll have to attach another monitor to test this. Of course, the other monitor I have tops out at 1280x1024 and that does NOT ghost, lending to the flaky monitor theory.
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
I really want the Apple Cinema Display, but the aforementioned gamut issue, the cost and the fact that it's essentially Mac-only without adapters, etc. all count against it.
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
A good scanner operator (I'm talking drum scanners) or good touch-up artists ('coz that's what they are: artists) never uses the screen, be it CRT or LCD or even those 20k$ Barco screens, to judge their colors.
There are simply too many factors that will affect the perceived colors (all the way through caffeine intake).
Descent color correction relies on color densities, and white point adjustment (*never* have less than 5% black on a white point, or run the risks of quarter-tone blank-outs).
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
ColorSync is there for home users.
Talk about ColorSync to any pro (and I do mean pro, not corner shop) printer and you'll get laughed at.
Color matching is best done using Pantone (PMS) tables, and PMS books are useless after 9-12 months, because of paper degradation.
You can't win this one. I've worked 10 years in the pre-press industry, writing tools for this highly demanding field. I know first hand how things work, and they don't work with ColorSync.
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
I should have pointed out that PMS color matching is for matching generic colors (like in drawings and page layout flat items, either for spot-color printing or process or hexachrome color seperations).
For photo touch-ups, they generally use color densities (CMYK).
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
Talk about ColorSync to any pro (and I do mean pro, not corner shop) printer and you'll get laughed at.
"
Pros like Joseph Holmes, Richard Seiling, Galen Rowell and shops like Pictopia?
Granted, I'm talking about RGB->RGB workflow, but ColorSync works just as well going to CMYK. What would you rather do - waste time tweaking stuff ny hand (Eye)? Have fun, but I'll make sure to avoid your shop - I tend to like repeatable results from my printer.
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
Re:LCDs aren't there yet (Score:2)
While what you say is correct, as an on-screen artist, I sure as heck need faithful color on my screen. And that's why I'll put effort onto screen-based color matching.
Not for planes (Score:1)
I'mm still eagerly waiting for my mylar film LCD (ePaper), where I can roll up a 20"+ touch screen and put it in my briefcase or where ever.
Dual screens (Score:1)
But the Panasonic is a step in the right direction. The more screen space the better!
Re:Dual screens (Score:2)
I prefer a bunch of smaller screens, because then I can arrange them to all face me. A 54" screen would be difficult to use- the left and right edges would be a good foot or more away from your eyes than the center of the screen. Your eyes would have to refocus when you moved around the screen.
Now, a flexible 54" screen might work, one that is slightly curved so all points are equidistance from your eyes.
Re:Dual screens (Score:2)
more screen for me... (Score:1)
Dual displays (Score:2)
Since then I have been looking for an excuse for a second display. Until recently however the thought of paying for dual 18" LCD displays was just too much and now the model I have is no longer made so if I bought a second one it would not match. Like what is the point in having kewl stuff if it looks crappie? Also the demise of 3DFX means that I would also have to get a new PCI monitor card to drive the thing.
I agree with the other posters about not really wanting my PC built into my display. My computer system lives out of sight about 5 ft from my desk and is connected to the desk by 2 cables, the monitor cable and the USB cable. I have a USB keyboard, mouse and CDROM drive on the desk
Idealy I would move the computer into another room altogether 'cos the fan is pretty loud.
I think that before I start spending more money on decorating the office that the NASDAQ needs to go up above 3000 or so.
And this is new because.... (Score:1)
I don't think the fact that it's 2 LCDs is anything special. What did I miss?
Pixel Perfect.. (Score:1)
It seems like a risky undertaking to release a model such as this when probabilities say that you double the # of exchanges per customer if you double the number of LCDs a customer buys.
I'd be interested in finding out what their "modified" standards are for a faulty LCD with this new model.
Two monitors verse multiple desktops (Score:2)
Multiple desktops, or oversized desktops ala ATI's old video drivers (before MS WHQL removed the ability) is a much, much better solution.
Re:Two monitors verse multiple desktops (Score:2, Interesting)
Multiple desktops are nice, but they simply are not a substitute for seeing two seperate apps simultaneously. Rather than switching desktops to look at your "other" app, then switch back to the first, you just look at the other monitor, then back. It's a terrific thing.
The one area that they don't make a lot of sense in (yet) is gaming. Those who are in it for the gaming should just save for the 21" monitor.
(I have a 21" at home, and 2x17" at work. Each has it's benefits and drawbacks. The only way for me to choose the "best" of the two would be to buy 2x21".)
steve
Love multi-monitor (Score:2)
Re:Love multi-monitor (Score:2)
Once again, the rest of the industry is figuring out that Apple had the right idea over 10 years ago...
Video games? (Score:2, Interesting)
One of the most interesting reasons for setting up dual displays for me would be for gaming... more FOV. With most systems, however, only one 3d card is used to display the game, while the other stays on the desktop. Would it be up to game designers to add a feature that would allow both screens to be used for displaying the game, or is that at the window manager level?
Furthermore, what would be the best way to handle this for FPS (and most non-FPS games actually) where the main action is in the center of the screen? Your crosshair would fall on the break between the LCDs.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Re:Video games? (Score:4, Informative)
For sale by owner (Score:4, Offtopic)
So, seriously, tell me again why a computer with two monitors is worthy of being a
In Japanese? (Score:2)
http://www.sense.panasonic.co.jp/shop/ncpo/catl
Anyone read Japanese?
~LoudMusic
Re:In Japanese? (Score:2)
I figured out the problem, somehow there was a space in the address.
http://www.sense.panasonic.co.jp/shop/ncpo/catl
Someone else posted it and got modded to 5 already. I guess mine will wither away into nothing ness
~LoudMusic
Pics available on Panasonic.co.jp (Score:5, Informative)
I like the pic at the bottom of the page showing how you can flip one screen around facing away from you so that two people sitting at a table facing each other both get a screen.
With a multi-tasking OS, one user could use the mouse and the other the keyboard and work on seperate tasks.
The real use for flipping the screen (Score:2)
I have however, had luck with a two keyboard system [Macintosh], when some friends from Galudet would come by, we'd set two folks up on a system with two keyboards, so they could communicate without having to write everything down, and keep passing paper back and forth.
Sounds fun. (Score:2)
Sure you can go out and build a system with 2 19@ monitors for less but alas if you make a compatibility blunder it's all on you head. In other words if you are an artist or programer with limited hardware experience you should buy this rather than building your own.
Karma Whoring R US (Score:2)
What's ALSO interesting is the 'Private Key' Hardware shown partway down the apge.
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Dell released a PC today with 4 USB ports! (Now you surf the information superhighway twice as fast! - Dude, you're getting a Dell!)
Pleez,
Jason.
PCI Bandwidth? (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been thinking about doing this at home. But I want accelerated digital 3D $$$
So do we have multi AGP ports on any mother boards?
Is the PCI bus ever going to get increased bandwidth?
To me the bandwidth limitations of the pci bus would seem to be a limit on futre expansion.
Re:PCI Bandwidth? (Score:2)
As far as PCI goes, there have been some developments. You are starting to see more 66mHz and/or 64 bit PCI slots (most of the older PCI slots are 33mHz/32-bit).
I run dual CRTs now and plan on running dual LCDs on my next computer. While good 3D is important to me, I realize that it is *most* important on one screen.
So my second screen is not quite as fast as my primary screen. I can live with that.
What's new about this? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What's new about this? (Score:2)
Granted, I've got my two 19" monitors side by side, and I love it to death! But it wasn't something that normal people could do (of course, it didn't help that one was an old fixed frequency 1962b Sun monitor with a special adapter ... if you want something similar and need the modelines, let me know and I'll send them to you).
Anyway, this just brings dual headed displays to the masses and that's what rocks.
Japanese product page (Score:3, Informative)
Try Here [panasonic.co.jp]
Two LCD screens side-by-side? (Score:2, Interesting)
Bloomberg
Re:Two LCD screens side-by-side? (Score:2)
Here's a question (Score:2)
But is this necessarily true with LCD screens? It seems to be based on the way they are priced. But technologically speaking, why can't I have an LCD screen with 4 times the area of a 17" screen, for 4 times the cost?
I'm curious because I'd love to be able to buy a nice 50" widescreen LCD monitor for my home computer in ten years or so, for maybe $400 or so. Will it happen?
Re:Here's a question (Score:2, Interesting)
1. manufacture the complete LCD screen
2. Test to see how many 'defective' dots there are
3. If too many defects are seen in the screen (either total number, or too many next to eachother, or...), throw it away.
4. Use what's left.
That's why large LCD screens have not been made - the larger the screen, the more defective dots you get.
I've always wondered (Score:2)
Why throw them away? granted no buisness or serious gamer would buy a LCD with bad pixels, but it would seem to me there is a market for LCDs with a small number of non-intrusive bad pixels. The menu bar on the bottom of my desktop for instance doens't need all the pixes to work. And if there are one or two in the middle of a large display I can live with that.
Mind you I expect to pay a large discount for the displays with bad pixels, but I would buy a 15 inch LCD with 5 bad pixels for $49.95, and it would seem to me there is a market there. And since they would throw them away before they make money.
Of course maybe they recycle the bad LCDs, in which case they do need to make more profit over the cost to recycle a bad display. Still I would think this could be done. Anyone know the costs?
Re:Here's a question (Score:2)
http://www.howstuffworks.com/lcd5.htm
So, I guess the limiting factor is how much they can improve the manufacturing quality. Hmmm, it would be cool if they could develop a modular process, where they could produce 4" mini-panels, test them, and then fuse the good ones together seamlessly. But maybe I'm dreaming.
Or maybe someone will produce my 50" LCD screen and just allow for a certain small percentage of defects. How bad could that be?
pics (Score:3)
Everyone thank our friends at google for this link. Not a mirror, but a start.
They should make laptops like this! (Score:2)
For laptops this is not the case. Some vendor should create a laptop with dual LCDs.
Specifically this image [panasonic.co.jp]
Imagine if this was a laptop. Would be REALLY slick and I would pay the extra $1000 for this.
They would need the ability to operate conventionally so that you could still use it with one LCD panel because you wouldn't be able to use it on an airplane.
I am sitting in a coffee shop in San Francisco right now on 802.11 and it would be nice to have dual LCD panels. One for Emacs and one for Mozilla
dual monitor iMac (Score:2, Offtopic)
Monitor resolutions? (Score:2)
Are you sure they're 1024x768? The Panasonic Japan website lists SXGA resolution (15.7", instead of the 15.0 we're used to seeing).
IIRC:
VGA=640x480
SVGA=800x600
XGA=1024x768
SXGA=1280x1024
I'm pretty sure from look at the mirror site, these are actually 1280x1024 resolution. Which I would like even better than my current 1024x768 LCD I have at home!
(WalMart sells them for $369.00 US now. With free mouse!
Dual Heading LCDs is good and bad (Score:2, Informative)
I started with an ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder and Rage something-or-other as the secondary card. This worked fairly well, except the TV on the AIW wouldn't work unless I rebooted Win2K with just one video card. To play games I at least had to disable the second display (didn't have to reboot, though). But for regular Windows apps, this worked great; apps maximize to just one monitor, popups don't cross monitor boundaries, most things just worked better.
Not happy with the performance on the second display (PCI instead of AGP) I splurged and got a Radeon 8500 with built-in dual-head. And yeah, the performance is great... but the dual-head support is utter crap. The DVD playback can't full-screen properly, apps get confused about which monitor (or both) they should maximize to, the mouse pointer behaves erratically near the monitor break, and you can't set the two monitors to different resolutions. Oh, and the software gets confused about how to use both monitors across reboots; sometimes forgetting the bit depth, always forgetting that a 2560x1024 display should span two monitors, not be constrained to one. ATI has yet to patch any of these problems.
The LCDs themselves... well I use flat CRTs at work, and I prefer the LCDs, even for graphics work. The sharpness of LCDs is extraordinary; it's especially unforgiving of JPEGs, as I can see a lot more distortion on these than I can on a CRT. It did take me a while to get the color balance decent, though--and even longer to get both monitors to match each other. But I can fit two of these on my desk without having to use industrial-strength support. The two together weigh less than a single 21" monitor.
The Panasonic unit looks interesting but it's probably going to be a very niche item. Most people can't justify two monitors in their minds, even though once you use one seriously for work, you end up liking it quite a bit. (You can pry my second monitor from my cold, dead fingers.)
It saves some space, but... (Score:2)
More monitors -vs- bigger monitors. (Score:3, Informative)
A large monitor is great. A bigger monitor is better.
But for somethings.. 2,3, or 4 displays can be handy... especially when you really aren't after one big desktop (like, for widescreen movies, spreadsheets, etc). or graphics (because you end up with color variances between displays, etc).
Multiple monitors can be very handy... like, one web page open in one to read documentation... and my editor on the bigmonitor....
Every multi-head setup I've had involved a central, main screen (19" or 21") and smaller, 17 or 15 inchers on the sides.. these were usually used to just stick monitoring windows, slashdot.. whatever on . The central big one is for the work.
This side by side setup looks great for office work.. not great for games.
multiple montiors with VNC (Score:4, Informative)
Anyways, my point was that i end up using my extra monitors for simple stuff like showing a text document, which could easily be done by an old laptop or obsolete pentium desktop you have lying around. So, you can use x2vnc [hubbe.net]or win2vnc [hubbe.net] to link the computers together. I use this to set my laptop next to some other display, and i can mouse over, even copy and paste, like both displays were on the same system.
I might be excited if... (Score:2)
OK, he didn't actually say that, but if you're looking for Panasonic drivers that actually work you have to go to their Canadian site [panasonic.ca].
Re:Dual displays under X (Score:4, Informative)
I use Linux with a Matrox G550 and 2 17" LCD monitors. This rocks !
try putting this in your XF86Config :
Section "ServerFlags"
Option "Xinerama" "yes"
EndSection
prove is here :
http://members.home.nl/mphm.janssen/files/xine-
have fun scrolling
(compiled KDE base and libs for xinerama support)
Re:Dual displays under X (Score:2, Informative)
You can also do:
startx -- +xinerama
rather than edit your XF86Config.
Re:Not entirely a new concept (Score:2)