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Handhelds Hardware

Nokia 5510 - Cell Phone and More 254

Posted by michael from the fumbling-toward-the-perfect-handheld dept.
matthew.thompson writes: "Nokia have released a phone to give the RIAA nightmares - it includes built in MP3 playing AND encoding and an FM stereo radio - so you can MP3 up tracks from the Radio or from an external source via a line in jack. It's also got a full qwerty style keyboard and GameBoy Advance style layout. RIAA headache inducing features here and piccies etc here." I'm not quite sure how this works - Nokia's page says the gizmo plays "secure" mp3 files, which sounds to me as if it is crippled. Here are some hi-res photos. Update: 10/11 12:59 GMT by M : Ahh, my misreading. It says "secure AAC and MP3 files", and apparently "secure" is intended to apply only to AAC. According to the FAQ, the phone is crippled - only stores crippled AAC files, not unencumbered mp3's. A shame.
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Nokia 5510 - Cell Phone and More More

Nokia 5510 - Cell Phone and More

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  • Hmm. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by serial frame ( 236591 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @07:47AM (#2414811)
    Devices that do everything are usually pushed aside in favour of an individual device that does something.

    I like that kind of 'modularity'.

    • Re:Hmm. (Score:3, Funny)

      by Lars Arvestad ( 5049 )
      Devices that do everything are usually pushed aside in favour of an individual device that does something.

      Unless you were writing this from a WebTV pad, your claim carries no weight with me!

      Just some light-weight trolling...


      • It may be a neat gadget, but this lady on their page is having way too much fun [nokia.com] with it.

        If I ever reach a point where this phone can give me that much joy, I'll have bigger issues to address in my life.

        //ct

  • Why? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Heem ( 448667 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @07:49AM (#2414825) Homepage Journal
    Do we really need to carry this much technology? My thought is that its too much for one unit to handle. Probably have to reboot it every now and then when it crashes. I want my phone to provide good phone audio when I call people. I want the battery to last as long as possible so I can call people on the phone. I want good range, SO I CAN CALL PEOPLE ON THE PHONE. If I want music/MP3 I'll get a walkman or a Rio.


    • Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The keyboard will definitly get some buyers for this phone. Why? Ever heard of SMS? Last year there mobile phone users in Sweden sent close to 500 million SMS messages to eachother... and there's less than 9 million people in Sweden.

      JK
    • That's the beauty of a free market. If you don't want an all-in-one device like this, then don't buy one. I'm sure there are plenty of people (like myself) who would like to consolidate several electronic playthings into one and get one of these babys.

    • Why? Because I don't want to carry around ten different devices. I gave up on my MD-player as I have quite enough "necessities" to lug around (keys, wallet, watch, phone - which I really don't need as the phone has it) and my SL-45 plays mp3s. If it had a radio I'd be even happier. Ideally I'd like one device with all these functions - or perhaps two to reduce risks. Or perhaps none (wearables/cybernetics).

      An additional benefit is that you can hear when someone calls you when listening to music as it automatically pauses.

      Do I need it? No, but I want it. (The functionality, not this big, ugly phone)

    • Do we really need to carry this much technology?

      Well, no. We don't need to. But I see nothing wrong with choice. If you want a phone that just calls people, then get that. I however think it's a pretty cool idea.

      -gus
    • Battery life - that's the user's choice, it won't drain batteries unless you use it. Like the GBA backlight though, it's nice to have the option there just in case.

      Crashing, audio quality, range - the bread and butter of cell phone companies is calling. While this is becoming less true over time, it's still mostly true, and you can be sure that they focused a lot of their quality improvement and bugfinding efforts on calling.

  • hmm.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by XyouthX ( 194451 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @07:52AM (#2414838) Homepage
    I don't like how this cell phone that doesn't really have any new features at all (phones with mp3 players have been available for almost 2 years).
    get this much exposure, while the technically more interesting solutions (GPRS, built in bluetooth, POP3 and SMTP client etc.) like the Ericsson T39 and the upcoming T68 doesn't.

    the only thing new about this thing is the keyboard and the poor stand by time.

    • Re:hmm.. (Score:5, Informative)

      by kju ( 327 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:08AM (#2414926)
      Did you read before posting? We are not talking about an phone with a mp3 player (i grant this is old) but about an phone which can RECORD mp3-files. Surely new technology. We are currently seeing the first portable mp3 recorders and here we have it included into a phone! Impressive technology and you say "no new features"?

      • Re:hmm.. (Score:2)

        by kju ( 327 )
        Just as a addition before people scream "Nonsense". It seems that it doesn't store MP3 but AAC. However: Still a cool transportable device which can record music, copy it to a computer etc.

        And the webpage gives an example of copying the music to friends, so very likely the recorded music is not encrypted but plain AAC. There are freeware AAC decoders (and encoders) out there, so this is as usable as a mp3 encoder (you can convert it to mp3 later if you must) and it is said that AAC had better audio than mp3.
      • I tested a portable mp3 player made by some little company in taiwan about 3 years ago that could record mp3 files. Why is it such big news when someone sticks a hardware CODEC into something instead of some cheezy DSP? Besides, what's the use of recording into MP3 if you are compressing only voice? There are many CODEC's designed to compress voice to data rates much smaller than MP3 can and remain understandable. (4-8kbps)

        ~GoRK

  • Wow, karma for me?! (Score:5, Informative)

    by haunebu ( 16326 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @07:54AM (#2414846) Homepage
    I actually work for Nokia, and work near the designer who created its outer shell. (Got to see it last Winter). I never liked the phone myself, the screen's too small, and the keyboard makes the shape a bit awkward for me personally.


    Anyway, to end the controversy: Much like the Nokia Music Player [nokia.com], the 5510 plays both AAC (the proprietary, "secure" filetype) and MP3. The MP3 player is NOT crippled in any way. You copy the file from your PC to the player and that's that. (It holds 64MB, just like the regular Nokia Music Player).

    • Looks weird. Sounds great.

      I'd buy only because of this headline!

      Andrea

    • Are you sure????? (Score:4, Informative)

      by barnaclebarnes ( 85340 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:31AM (#2415036) Homepage
      According to the FAQ:

      Can I play downloaded MP3 files on the Nokia 5510?

      Yes, the Nokia 5510 can play MP3 files in protected format. Copies of the downloaded music files are added to the Nokia Audio Manager database. Nokia Audio Manager encrypts the music files and downloads the protected MP3 format to the memory of the Nokia 5510.

      In what format is the music saved in my hard disk?
      All the songs are saved in encrypted AAC format.

      So it looks like the Audio manager encryps mp3's before they get sent to the device. Which also means that you probably can't download and play then on another machine. It also probably means that the format on the device is NOT mp3. more like AAC format, which is exactly the reason why I haven't got a Sony Memorystick walkman...

      Maybe what you saw has been changed by the marketing folks to conform to 'industry standards'?
      /b
      • Sounds to me like you can download your music from the computer to the phone just fine, but you won't be able to copy it from the phone. Wouldn't bother me much, but it does conflict with the third panel in this [nokia.com].
      • AAC != MP3. They are two different compression schemes altogether. A lot of people have this confused.

        Maybe the "protected" MP3 format is just MP3 encrpyted using some public key system or other.

        Perhaps the Nokia phone can play both MP3 and AAC -- but the two formats (even not considering encryption, etc) are DIFFERENT!

  • Another great device not avail in N. America (Score:3, Interesting)

    by saridder ( 103936 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @07:54AM (#2414848) Homepage
    It's a great device, a novel new design, has plenty of new devices, but until we upgrade our wireless capability in N. America, we won't be using it for a while.

    Availability: Europe, Africa, Asia Pacific in the 4th quarter of 2001

    I say we go the DoCoMo route, insted of WAP anyways. Plus, where's the PDA functionality. It seems more a gameboy than a business tool.
    • It seems more like a gameboy than a business tool

      Agreed. After looking at their music info page [nokia.com], I'd swear the target market is the teenage Napster crowd.

      But with detachable faceplates for Nokia phones and such, that tactic has been used for a while now.
      • I'd swear the target market is the teenage Napster crowd.

        It most likely is. In the UK (and even more so in scandinavia, as I understand it), everyone has a mobile, and SMS in particular is very popular with teenagers. The US cellular networks aren't really good enough to enable the same phenomenon there, in my experience (shitty coverage, too many networks, too expensive).
        • What I'm waiting for is four those four vulture companies to stop ripping us all off by making £120 million per MONTH in text messages alone and to cut text prices from 12p per message down to a more reasonable 1p/0.5p per message - how much does it REALLY cost to send that text message anyway?

          But of course, oftel it probably in their back pockets and wont do jack.

          -Nano.
    • Isn't it funny how a lot of new devices are now available in Africa before US, yet we say they are behind in technology.
    • Upgrade our wireless capability?


      You mean switch from GSM at 1900MHz to GSM at 1800 MHz? You can blame the FCC (or whatever organization is on 1800 MHz) before you blame false American technical ineptness.

      The reason it's not available immediately (at least for the operable networks) is that I surmise network operators have to thoroughly evaluate the phone, decide whether they want to support it, then support it. Nokia doesn't sell directly to the public so their entire salesbase is happy providers.

      Justsoyaknow ... supporting a phone usually means training a vast number of mindless customer service representatives. I would also figure that providers might not like the idea of supporting such an 'advanced' phone--AT&T has a hard enough problem debugging my PocketNet service, let's see them handle a call from Joe AOL trying to use this thing. The sneak-preview is to drum up sales and give providers prep time.


      But I'm still waiting for my AT&T-GSM powered Nokia 9290 Communicator [nokia.com]. *drool* This thing's been available since like '99, but Nokia doesn't give a rat's ass about the US market outside of AT&T's desires.

  • MP3-AAC (Score:1)

    by ^DA ( 82715 )
    From what i've heard you can indeed download MP3's to yout 5510 but the software you do it with automaticaly converts to the AAC format. This is supposed to be a "secure" format (...at least for two more days, yes? :) The player is an AAC player, and you cannot swap mp3's with your friends because of the security buildt into this format...:(

    • Re:MP3-AAC (Score:2, Interesting)

      by haunebu ( 16326 )
      You, Sir, are incorrect. It does nothing at all to the file after you copy it to the player. The phone plays both AAC and MP3, it doesn't convert one filetype to another.

      Anyway, it would be false advertizing on the part of my employer, if it did.

  • Secure MP3 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jockm ( 233372 )
    Nokia's page says the gizmo plays "secure" mp3 files, which sounds to me as if it is crippled

    I can find no reference to "secure" mo3. It doe say that it supports AAC (which can have DRM) and MP3...

    • Re:Secure MP3 (Score:3, Informative)

      by urdak ( 457938 )
      From Nokia's FAQ:

      Can I play downloaded MP3 files on the Nokia 5510?

      Yes, the Nokia 5510 can play MP3 files in protected format. Copies of the downloaded music files are added to the Nokia Audio Manager database. Nokia Audio Manager encrypts the music files and downloads the protected MP3 format to the memory of the Nokia 5510.

  • The music format will not be MP3 but AAC [zdnet.com]
    Software will be included to convert CDDA and Mp3 to AAC.
    • What is the input mechanism for this? Would I be able to rip straight from a CD player with optical out? Or is it just an analog input?

      I'm guessing the software is done outside the phone?

      Couldn't find these answers after skimming the web site.

  • it WON'T be marketed in the US! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by steve.m ( 80410 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @07:56AM (#2414870) Journal
    so it won't upset the RIAA. why don't people check these things *before* posting them.
    see here [nokia.com] for the availability and operating frequencies. duh!
  • Now as i usually touchtype at 120wpm,

    I would like my fingers to magically resize and fit whatever the keyboard size is.
    • Now as i usually touchtype at 120wpm,

      Wow...congratulations. I can't seem to type out SMS messages faster than about 10 WPM.

      While the keyboard is far from perfect, when banging out quick messages while in a loud nightclub this new design has some added benefit over the dinky 12 keys provided on most mobile phones (yes I know you can turn on the dictionary...but still).

      Even if I lived outside the US I probably wouldn't grab one of these new phones, but I do think that it's an interesting step in the mobile front. As other posters have mentioned this is definitely targetting the Napster "generation" (teens, some college kids) who love glitzy new features like this. I'm not a big fan of mp3 players, even, but I know my teenage sister wouldn't mind having one, and considering that she spends a lot of time on her mobile phone this phone might appeal to her.

    • "I would like my fingers to magically resize and fit whatever the keyboard size is."

      Like in Ghost in the shell, iirc, where they had those nice wire fingers for typing on the computers.

      --

      0x00

      I judge a mans worth by the number of clowns he smuggles across the border.
  • you think that drivers talking on cell phones is bad? wait until they get their hands on this phone and try to type messages while driving.

    E.
    • heh, that already happens with normal mobile phones.

      i believe there was a case recently here in the UK where some twat was driving along while typing out a text message on his phone, lost control of the car and crashed into a park or something. luckily no one was injured. i think he was just charged with dangerous driving.

      (begin rant)
      some people just have no common sense when using phones and driving, you shouldnt be bloody driving whilst holding a phone up to your ear. get a hands free kit if you really _have_ to talk to someone right then and now. there cant be many things that are _so_ urgent that you cant wait 30 seconds to find somewhere to pull over.

      bah
      • Not quite.

        It was a LORRY driver who was composing a text message while driving. He failed to see a car in front of him, smashed into it at high speed, killing the guy in the car. Having caused a fatal crash he then completed his text message (it was the text message being sent that got him caught). Presumably he must have sent the text message before calling for an ambulance ! (since most phones won't let you make a call in mid-text-message-compose, and then revert to the message where you left off.)

        Nice guy huh ! Drives unsafely, killing someone (not that he would have known whether they were dead, dying or very seriously injured), then completes his text message before calling for an ambulance !

    • Re:think drivers TALKING on cell phones is bad? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      My favorite thing to do is pull up next to someone talking on their cell phone while on the freeway, make sure nobody is behind me (the most important step), and yank my emergency brake. The tires squealing makes them immediately shit their pants, drop their phone, and focus on what's important. I know how my car handles with the e-brake on, so don't go try this at 90mph. Yeah, I go through tires pretty fast, but it's worth it. Pirelli love smy business.

  • Finally - a full keyboard (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hrbrmstr ( 324215 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:00AM (#2414890) Homepage Journal
    The MP3 features are nice, but it's great to finally have a full keyboard that doesn't require a stylus to operate (ala Palm-ish phones). The only real, cool feature IMHO. I love my Nomad, don't play handheld games much and not interested in being in Nokia's "club".

    There does need to be some significant improvements in *power* options if we are supposed to be convinced to be electronically tethered 24/7. I doubt the 2hrs claim will be the norm for most folks.

    All the next rev needs is Java, integrated GPS, color screen and old Nintendo/Atari emulation. Now *that* will be a great ... ahh ... err ... phone?!
    • Well thats my 9210 (9290) you describe there, I'm playing Doom on it without any problems (duh, Doom is for PC not Atari - sorry :-)
    • Indeed, any phone you expect to sell into the UK teenager market (the high end of which is where this is aimed) must concentrate a lot on SMS messaging.

    • Now *that* will be a great ... ahh ... err ... phone?!

      Actually that brings up an interesting point. While gabbing away in heated conversation is the primary feature, more and more um..."useful" features are being thrown into the little plastic case. It's not unlikely that phones will serve wide purposes in the near future.

      With that in mind, I wonder if Nokia will eventually allow for general 3rd party development for their devices. Right now it appears to all be closed, but it would be cool to allow random developers to build small applets (no not necessarily Java...I'm fine with zippy little assembly apps). I know there's WAP support, but WAP hasn't isn't exactly a stellar experience. There are issues of security, of course...I don't want someone's random app bringing down my conversation. I'm sure some people will point to the Java ME SDK...but I haven't really played around with this yet.

      Anyway I'm sure the first thing would be games, probably ports of old simple arcade games. And then someone will probably throw Linux on there (god forbid).

    • All the next rev needs is Java, integrated GPS, color screen and old Nintendo/Atari emulation. Now *that* will be a great ... ahh ... err ... phone?!

      OK pal, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Want to make piles and piles of monay? Make an Atari/Nintendo/Arcade emulator for this thing, right here [nokia.com].

      Nokia will sell millions upon millions of 9210 (9290 in the Americas) Communicators. You know what everybody with a Communicator wants? Exactly the same thing you do: Games. Good ones. There are a few good ones coming out for the 9210 (Like Virtually Board Snowboarding [nokia.com]), but a lot of people would like to play some great old Atari/Nintendo/Arcade games on it. Surely some Slashdotter can come up with an EPOC app that'll do it, right?

      Release it as open source if you want, or charge 5 bucks for the thing. (If just a few thousand people buy it, well, you've got yourself a new car.) I mean sheesh, MAME is open source, isn't it? How hard could it be to compile it with the Nokia/EPOC dev tools?

  • File Format (Score:2, Informative)

    by MullerMn ( 526350 )
    According to the FAQ the software (for a 'compatible' PC) encrypts any music you want to listen to to AAC format (not heard of that one before) before the phone can download it. It does that to MP3s as well as any other media that you want to store on the phone.
    What does having a MP3 player built in do to your phone's battery life?

    What do people think about the trend of lumping more and more functionality into single devices? Most people seem to think it's a bad idea with software, is hardware any different?
    -- Andy
  • Sending SMS messages with this thing is like... insane! You can only enter 160 characters. That's just not cutting it if you want to tell a story.
    On the other hand, all those kids will learn stuff like wtf, fwiw, bbiab, imho, roflmao, lmao, afk (!) and so on.

    i'll stfu now. ttyl8r.

    infernix
    • Well, in watching my younger brother and sisters chat on the internet, i can tell you that they all already know the ones they want to use, which is pretty much limited to cya, wtf, rofl, lol, brb, and ttyl... figure they would never say for what its worth, be back in a bit, in my humble opinion, and away from keyboard in meatspace, so why would they say it in cyberspace? One thing im surprised about is the lack of "stfu" adoption. And IANAL. :)
  • Again (Tata!) a device that makes it real easy to copy and spread digital media. Add BT to the mix and it gets even funkier. This, again, spells doom on the "buy our CDs, we want money" kind of music producers. It's time for them to think of new ways of emptying our pockets, or use old ones in a new way. I'd still like to be able to buy a CD, but then preferably with a very nice booklet, with extra stuff and in really high quality.

    Why does "buying the CD" have to be the only way for an artist to get money? Get creative. Look at the boy bands for example, they must be making *TONS* of money from concerts, posters, DVDs, commercials and just about everything. They don't really need those extra dollars from the CDs, and the kids will use just as much money as before.

    Having lawyers battle teenagers just sounds like a stupid idea to me, and there are far worse things you can do than copy a piece of music. Reality check people.
  • I guess the RIAA has to get it's headaches elsewhere, as it doesn't seem that Nokia has plans to make the device available in the States ...
  • Why is it that the coolest new cell phones always get made for networks somewhere else besides the U.S.? According to their website this one is only available for networks in Europe, Africa and Asia. I mean come on...I'm a geek I want the cool toys...my StarTac is getting severely dated. Between this, and the 3G network in Tokyo I'm feeling very tech deprived.

    • Re:Gizmos (Score:3, Informative)

      by kju ( 327 )
      Easy. The big mobile phone manufacturers (Nokia, Ericcson, Siemens) are all based in Europe where we have GSM-Nets. Surely they will first produce a phone which can work in there home countries. And GSM won't work very well in the USA (except the few GSM1900 nets).

      Face it: The USA had the first mobile phone networks but this is also the reason why you are using long outdated technology. Sometimes its better to be late but get good new technology :-) This will change with the emerge of UMTS however.

      • Re:Gizmos (Score:2, Interesting)

        by alexjohns ( 53323 )
        Sometimes its better to be late but get good new technology.
        A few years ago I saw the same thing about China - they were having problems laying copper because the peasants would dig it up and sell it on the scrap metal market. They were saying that fiber seemed a better option. Of course since then I haven't heard about any further fiber laying in China. A similar problem with East Germany after the fall of the Wall. They were laying copper cable there since fiber was just too damn expensive. I remember someone saying that the Wall fell too soon. (Isn't that ironic?)

        So we've got an old cellphone network here in the US and Europe has got a newer one. What happens 5 years from now, when the next generation hits? Will your modern network be able to upgrade easily then? Or will you be in the same boat we are?

        Similar thing with HDTV - don't want to make HD programs until people have the boxes, don't want to buy the box until there's a lot of digital programming (and the cost comes way down.)

        These things have a way of sorting themselves out. It might be that Africa ends up being the most wired country, 50 years from now, because when they finally get around to building their infrastructure they will be using the brand new stuff and we'll all be stuck with the old crap.

        During the 80's and Reagan's Voodo Economics, Japan was top dog, financially. They used to hold meetings to try to figure out how to help out the US economically. Now look at whose economy is in the crapper.

        • Re:Gizmos (Score:2)

          by kju ( 327 )
          Hehe, but in fact eastern germany _was_ equipped with fiber in large areas after the fall of the wall. Which nowadays leads to problems as DSL is not available to these people.

          Deutsche Telekom AG has announced that they are working on a solution for fiber but nothing yet.
          • I figured they would run at least a couple of fiber optic lines to places like Berlin or Dresden. However, I never heard anything about them laying it anywhere else. What's the problem with DSL? The copper is bad? I would imagine that's likely. So you're saying that there's plenty of fiber going in, but 'the last mile' problem is bigger there? Or something else? I'm not sure what you mean by 'solution for fiber'.

            I have some interest in this, since I'm an ex-German. (Born in Dachau. Naturalized American in 1982.)

  • Why, in the phone market (and other "gadjet" markets), they feel the need to put in some specials softwares to help promote/sell the device? I mean, if I want my phone to play MP3, I'll find a MP3 player for the OS running it (palm OS, EPOC, etc.) or a Java MP3 player if the phone support Java. A lot of current phone support Java, or offer the possibility to code for it with C/C++, so why they focus on software? Instead, why they don't add other hardware things, like the FM Radio?

    If the device have good hardware things, people will like it, and let the programmers do their jobs, and they will made the MP3 player that you want!

    Or you can code it yourself too, it's a lot more phone, heh!
    • Did you missed the fact that it is much more battery effective to play MP3 using a special decoding chipset? I'm sure this phone includes one, otherwise it will probably be usable as a portable heater, too.

      So why do you say this is a software thingie? It sure is a hardware thing as what you are asking for.

  • Well... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by metlin ( 258108 )
    Already a lot of public places forbid you from using cell phones. With all due apologies to the road warriors, I have a feeling that the convergence of music games et al into a cell will only add more to the problem.

    Waiter: Sir, you cannot talk on a cell inside the hotel sir.
    Me: Oh no, I was just excited about Commander Keen.
    Waiter: Huh? I doubt you are allowed to talk to Mr.Keen either, sir.
    Me: aaaaaaaaarggggggggghhhhh

  • This device rox (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tha_Zanthrax ( 521419 ) <<slashdot> <at> <zanthrax.nl>> on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:16AM (#2414969) Homepage Journal
    but maybe it could become more cooler if Nokia worked together with some PDA-company (Best choice would be Palm IMHO). They could reduce the keyboard's size be building one of these [frogpad.com] in it to make more room for the screen.
    Devices is this one allready excist but most are a PDA that you can make phonecalls with or a cellphone that remembers your appointments.

  • More (oldish) info (Score:2, Informative)

    by Darth Paul ( 447243 )
    First off, this ain't the first phone to have an MP3 player - Samsung came out with one last year which is doing decently well, but of course Nokia is a different story.

    Here is a nokia music player press release [nokia-asia.com] dated March this year. It says 32megs for an hour of music. (Must be a pretty crummy bitrate though). Today's link claims 2 hours, but I doubt that's at the standard 128kbps. Anybody know how much memory in this thing?

  • it's heavy
    it's big
    it can't do gprs...

  • Just what kids need (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ClubStew ( 113954 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:29AM (#2415026) Homepage

    Great, just another gimmic to attract the younger croud. As I walk around, I'm seeing a ton of teenagers with no more reason for a phone than to "stay in touch with all their friends". It's more like be bothered consitantly and cause headaches for everyone else because they can't talk quietly.

    It's not just kids either. I walk around a major University here in the US and practically everyone has them and is always on them. It's the first thing they do out of class. It's what they do on the bus. It's become a cult and a horrible addiction.

    I'm not saying cell phones aren't important. They have many great uses and I plan on getting one as soon as I graduate (not enough comfortable capital yet because of rising education costs) for work and long distance (much cheaper!!!).

    Does anyone agree with me? It seems like there's more people out there that don't have a need for them - especially the younger croud. Live life; meet new people - like the people sitting next to you in the bus; and get off the damn phone.

    • It seems like there's more people out there that don't have a need for them

      Who are you to determine whether someone has a need for a cellphone or not? And who defines "need"? Some of us just like staying in touch.

  • Silly question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dcavanaugh ( 248349 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:31AM (#2415034) Homepage
    Why does Nokia care if the file format on the phone is "protected" or not? Is there some kind of phone-to-phone transfer capability that opens up the opportunity for "piracy"?

    If I have an MP3 file and Nokia software converts it to "protected AAC", I can [technically] still share the old MP3 copy with half of the planet via P2P, right?

    I realize the whole question is academic because the phone is not going to be in the US anytime soon.

    Personally, I have no use for a music player in my phone, but I can imagine college students who might want lightweight, multi-function devices. I'd rather have MP3 capability in a PDA.

    The battery life on this phone/music toy must be pitiful.

    • Re:Silly question (Score:3, Informative)

      by armb ( 5151 )
      > Why does Nokia care if the file format on the phone is "protected" or not? Is there some kind of phone-to-phone transfer capability

      http://www.nokia.com/phones/5510/spotlight_music .h tml shows a (cartoon) guy copying a song he's just recorded off the radio to his friends phone, and another one from a CD, then uploading them onto his PC.

      But from the FAQ, the upload to the PC has to use the Nokia software which uses "encrypted AAC format" to store it, so presumably stops it being freely copied from there.

      Maybe the phone-to-phone copy is allowed because you can't use your phone as a server for anyone to download from, only physically close people with a wire? (And maybe it's an analogue connection, or has deliberately introduced generation loss?)
    • If you have a look at the link 'Mongo's Music' it shows how you can encode mp3s from the radio, then copy the file from phone to phone, as well as encode from a CD player, and then copy to a computer. The RIAA does have a problem with that. The copying files phone to phone (I guess it would be done via wires rather than wireless) is a neat feature, although I have a feeling it will be implemented using the headphone socket to a line in socket, thus requiring re-sampling of an analog signal rather than a digital transfer. I live in Europe, I listen to a lot of music, I haven't got a portable mp3 player and I have a fairly old mobile phone. I might get one. If the 5 games on it include Doom and Quake!

    • "recently selected by BMG and Universal Music as the preferred platform for digital music delivery. Advanced Audio Coding is highly compatible with digital copy protection protocols and watermarking"

      Almost the same as RIAA approval right there.

      and from the Music FAQ [nokia.com]

      "In what format is the music saved in my hard disk?
      All the songs are saved in encrypted AAC format."

      Everything is encrypted.

      "Can I play downloaded MP3 files on the Nokia 5510?
      Yes, the Nokia 5510 can play MP3 files in protected format. Copies of the downloaded music files are added to the Nokia Audio Manager database. Nokia Audio Manager encrypts the music files and downloads the protected MP3 format to the memory of the Nokia 5510."

      Yes, MP3's are encrypted too.

      There IS one good piece of news though...

      "Does the Nokia 5510 support WMA?
      No, it doesn't"

      No support for Microcrud format, heh heh.
    • I read the links and I am still confused.

      What precisely does this AAC thing prevent me from doing? It seems I can get MP3s from either a CD or the net and load them into the phone. What else would I want to do?

  • Ringtones? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Howie ( 4244 ) <howie.thingy@com> on Thursday October 11, 2001 @08:34AM (#2415049) Homepage Journal
    From reading the spec, the poxy thing has 64Mb for MP3 storage, an FM radio, and still has annoying bleepy ringtones rather than sample-based ones like (at least) Sony mobiles have.

    No sign of IR data in the specs either, which is more or less standard in other Nokia WAP phones...

    Nearly, but not quite. (add smartmedia or CF support to the wishlist)
    • I've been asking for sample based ringtones for years. Not because I want Eric Idle saying "Message for you Sir!" (cf. Holy Grail) or because I want the latest teeny-bopper to sing when I get a phone call.

      I want to hear the sound of a real ring, like all phones had when I was growing up. You know, electricity causing hammer to strike metal bell inside the phone leased from Ma Bell...
      • There are phones that do that - Sony [sonystyle-europe.com]
        CMD-MZ5 and CMD-J6 do it if you don't mind lining Sony's pockets (I try to avoid it - especially where the MemoryStick is involved).

        I like the idea of a real ring from such a tiny phone though. I always fancied a Slayer riff as a completely-non-jingly ringtone.

        [It took me a stupidly long time to find that link - Sony's website is almost as bad as 3Com's.]

    • Re:Ringtones? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ivanushka ( 527694 )
      You can do it with Nokia 9210 (any wav can be used as a ringtone). But don't wait for the low-end phones to have this feature. It'll ruin network operators' business of selling ringtones.

  • for their nonsensical allocation of radio spectrum.
    I can't get anything this cool to use on (VoiceStream) GSM 1900.

    Guess I'll just have to buy one for my GF and visit her more often. ;-)
  • According to that site It is not available for the north american market.

    aem
  • In order for me to buy a phone, it needs to be two things 1) shiny, and 2) small.
    I love Nokia phones, esp the two I have, the 8860, and the 8890 - and they pass the "smaller than my penis" test. and they are shiny as all get out.

    but this monster looks huge. how exactly are you to carry it around? and only a small part of it is shiny.
  • Since the technology that makes it up is not really new...can it do something combining the component technology to do something novel and uniquely useless (this is what makes it sell anyway)?

    Can I tune in, encode and stream? Why? Cuz I potentially could! There's always some novel use for seemingly useless technology. And someone who reads /. will probably hack it to achieve such a feat!

  • Using this phone in the US with Voicestream (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What stops you from using this from in the US with the GSM provider of Voicestream? It looks like it is compatable with the US GSM freq (EGSM 900, GSM 1800 and GSM 900/1800 dual-band). I believe Voicestream uses 900. And if the phone is bought is Europe locked, then you can go to any small store (privatly owned) and they can unlock it for like $10 US. Any ideas on this, because it sounds it will work in the US without problems?
  • Just some idle speculation on what comes next:
    1. color screen (already available in some cell phones
    2. digital camera?
    3. video camera for video phone shots of peoples ears or mouths :-)
    4. better pim software
    5. optional sxga video output - so that you can see what you are typing, and play games like they should be played
    6. back to the real: voice recording to mp3 (strangely, this one doesn't seem to do this)
    7. text-voice-text features
    8. direct neural connection to allow immersive VR conference calls (orgies)

    Cheers.

  • "the phone is crippled - only stores crippled AAC files, not unencumbered mp3's. A shame."

    Kinda defeats the purpose of the article itself, doesn't it?

    "Nokia have released a phone to give the RIAA nightmares."

  • The FAQ states that the files are stored encrypted, but the link from above (http://www.nokia.com/phones/5510/spotlight_music. html) shows an example of copying the music from one 5510 to another. So how should this work if the music is encrypted? Only idea is that the music is encrypted with a common key, but it should be not so difficult to rip out the key from the pc based conversion software (same way, DVD was hacked).
  • This runs with the help of a ARM7 core.

    Which is what they use in the new RIO and the Game Boy Advance (GBA).

    So the potential is there to create a clone of a GBA (but without carts).

    This would see you download your game to phone so you could have a library of games that you have paid for and when you want a new one you pay for it and it becomes part of your library (reducing the number of games that can be stored to1 save the amount of flash and so how expensive the end unit is ).

    The technically this is easy legally this is easy since nitendo just licensed the ARM ISA (the publishers would have to publish through a new medium but that's simple enough)
    the problem is the screen

    Battery life on phones has to be quite long
    LCD are the single greatest drain on a battery to put in a screen of the GBA's resolution would mean the battery life of in use would decrease considerably

    sad really

    regards

    john jones

    p.s. how long to EPOC GBA emulator is seen I wonder (-;
  • An alternative to passport? [infosync.no] I found this more interesting than a new phone.
    "Microsoft is attempting something like this with its Passport effort which is tied into .NET as a proprietary solution, but now Nokia is making a shot too, and their effort aims for an open and standards-based solution."

  • two selling points (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nutty ( 70104 ) on Thursday October 11, 2001 @10:30AM (#2415524) Homepage
    Alright, in europe, every youth carries a cell phone, its a requirement...well at least in sweden and finland. So, if they can get music out of it also, then thats wonderful. That means not having to carry a minidisc along with the cell phone, and with tight pants all the craze, there isn't much room for a plethora of devices.

    Two, there is a massive element of irony that this phone, with its full keyboard, will sell beautifully on the deaf market. (The irony being that it plays music)...SMS is a HUGE thing for deaf people, who can use their cellphones to communicate to full potential, and a full keyboard is a godsend for them.

    Its a grand product.
    • yes SMS is cool but ~I dont like the screen res

      but the big selling point is the FM stereo
      combined with MP3 and WMA playback that rocks

      think about how many people walk arond with discmans or mindisc or walkman AND a mobile

      convergance

      pitty that its in such an ugly case with all those buttons
      put that in a regular sized nokia with EPOC and I will PAY for it

      regards

      john jones
      • put that in a regular sized nokia with EPOC and I will PAY for it

        Nokia might have a surprise for you... The don't put New phone out that has all the features people
        want, they add features one by one, so that you have to buy a new phone every eyear.

        But a rebular nokia sized epoc-phone is coming out, probably in their next announcment, and it seems like a real killer.

  • Hi-Res? (Score:2)

    by iso ( 87585 )
    Here are some hi-res photos

    Since whend did "hi-res" mean "larger than a postage stamp? High-resolution is more like a 300dpi photo, not this slightly larger picture.

    - j
  • Per the update: "According to the FAQ, the phone is crippled - only stores crippled AAC files, not unencumbered mp3's. A shame."

    A shame? If I'm playing MP3's on my cell phone in general, chances are that I'm going to be using some kind of proprietary interface to get the tracks onto the phone to begin with. I have no intention of playing P2P with this thing (and I don't know if it's even feasible).

    That said, the average music lover would probably toss a few CD's into their CD-ROM drives, copy the songs to this AAC format on the phone, and be done with it. If I have no purpose to transfer these AAC files anywhere else, why should I care if they are quote-unquote "cripped"?

  • Mongo? (Score:2, Funny)

    by frenetic_wimp ( 469446 )
    Strange thing. In Norway, Mongo is a rather rude term for a person with Down's Syndrome. OK, Norway is a small country, but about 95% of people aged 15-30 own a mobile phone, most of them Nokias, and after all, Finland (home of Nokia) is pretty close to here. Why choose "Retard" (actually, it's a lot worse :-) as their mascot name?

    Beats me.
  • According to the FAQ, the phone is crippled - only stores crippled AAC files...

    Since when does encrypted automatically mean the fortmat is crippled? Nowhere in the FAQ [nokia.com] do I see the word "crippled." DVD's are not crippled, the encryption on the disk does not affect the quality of the picture or the sound. DVD's are encrypted, the content is scrambled, but not degraded. In the same regard, I'd assume the phone plays normal AAC files post-decrypting them. But hey, what would I know...

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