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Handhelds Hardware

Info on the New iPAQ H3800 130

Posted by CmdrTaco from the hardware-to-lust-after dept.
Jason Dunn sent us to a link on his site about the new new iPaq which is due out relatively soon. Aesthetic changes, more memory, and I assume Linux will run on it as well or better then the existing models.
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Info on the New iPAQ H3800 More

Info on the New iPAQ H3800

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  • sorry, compaq...it's nice, but until it's got bluetooth and some kind of wireless connectivity (built-in CDMA phone capabilities???), I'm not gonna shell out the $400+ you're asking.

    I'll stick with my Palm V for now...
    • Gee, that sure sounds like a thousand dollar pda to me. But why do you want both bluebooth AND wireless connectivity??
      -russ
      • picture this...

        a PDA that takes ALSO functions as my mobile phone. I've been longing for it for years. The bluetooth functionality, while not necessary, would allow me to use a wireless headset or earpiece...much better than the current hybrid PDA/cell phones, which basically force you to hold the freakin' PDA up to your face (generally not very accomodating).

        The wireless capability would not necessarily have to be 802.11...it could be 3G wireless CDMA or something of that nature. I'm looking for TOTAL voice/data connection, in a fully mobile environment.
    • Point 1: Bluetooth IS wireless connectivity.

      Point 2: The new iPaq has bluetooth.

      RTFA.
      • Um, bluetooth (or 802.15) is WPAN. Good for wirelessly connecting devices to your iPaq. Not good for wirelessly connecting your iPaq to a high speed network as you walk around your building or campus.

        WLAN.
    • It's got bluetooth...

      As for wireless, hell, if you wanna shell out the service charges I'm sure that there will be a card for it soon.
    • Uh... What about a CDPD PCMCIA modem. It works like a charm. I love the IPAQ, and with the CDPD card, and a citrix server, I can run any app from anywhere...
    • I'll say it really depends on what you want to do with the device. A PDA is a PDA, and it acts as a PDA pretty well I can imagine.

      I have an iPAQ running Linux and the point is a I want some kind of mobile device that run Linux and technically I can run anything on it and that means I can run anything anywhere.

  • A tad too much? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by smaughster ( 227985 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @10:32AM (#2358326)
    A very cool tool, but looking at the specs, I got the feeling that everything has been added because it can, not because it could be useful for a PDA. I mean: a 5 button joystick interface? If they would have integrate cell-phone functionality, then this would really rock. Anyone got any ideas on how long such a battery will last without recharging?

    • Re:A tad too much? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Russ Nelson ( 33911 ) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Thursday September 27, 2001 @10:34AM (#2358341) Homepage
      No, trust me, you really *do* want 64MB ram and 32MB flash. By the time you put Linux in a 16MB flash, you only have 2MB left for applications.

      And the 5 button joypad is needed to play gsoko.
      -russ

      • Re:A tad too much? (Score:3, Informative)

        by larien ( 5608 )
        The 32MB flash is a requirement for Pocket PC 2002; you can fit it on an iPaq 3630/3660, but if you do, you have to install the Media player and some other software into the RAM.

        Personally, I'm finding the 32MB RAM in my 3630 adequate for my needs; I'm not using it to lug around dozens of images or large documents, after all! Remember, even new-ish Palms only have around 8MB, although I imagine that Palm apps must be smaller.

        As for the joystick, I only use it for qtris :)

    • Its probably is on the same scale as normal iPaqs...

      Mine lasts about 4-6 hours without the backlight ever on, and that goes down to 2-3 with it and depending if I'm using proc intensive stuff...

      Need a lot more if its gonna be a cell phone, though the expansions do come with more batteries...

      • Re:Battery life... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Drakino ( 10965 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @11:12AM (#2358571) Journal
        Battery capacity in the new iPaq is higher (1400 mAh compaired to I believe 900 in the older iPaqs.)

        Also, I saw over on Brighthand.com [brighthand.com]s fourms that someone offers a battery replacement service for the iPaq. One was with a 2100mAh battery.

        Honestly though, on my iPaq 3630, the battery life has been fine. It sits in it's cradle and charges while I sync it. Wasn't a huge deal when I traveled either. Brought the AC adaptor (instead of extra batteries), and just plugged it in when I got the battery warning after about 3-5 days. I was doing the same for my cell phone, so whats the difference?
        • I agree, why do some pdas still use regular batts? Take a hint from the cell phone industry, put a high power batt in, and provide a charger. It works great for my motorolla timeport/startac phone. I just plug it in when I get home, or whip out the charger when I'm at a hotel, it's small and fits in my bags easily. The batts last about 2-3 days with moderate talk time usage. Seems like that's about the same length of time a pda lasts. Compared to a pda my cell phone probobly sucks batts like no tomorrow, but I rarely have a problem with it going dead.
    • 5-button joystick is too much? No way it is too little! At least for playing games it is. I have had an Ipaq for a year and it has had the 5-button pad all this time. They should increase it to a 9 button pad!
    • A GSM/GPRS sleeve is available and will provide full cell phone capability in addition to packet data. This means that you can be always on the Internet. Also you are billed for the data transfered, not the time. Most operators will charge a typical bucket of bits, e.g., $10 for 10Megbytes/month.
      I tell you this device kicks ass.
      GSM = Global System for Mobiles
      GPRS = General Packet Radio Service

  • 802.11 Biznatch (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gsoli ( 524888 )
    Well, I would definitely love to see some 802.11b in there, especially now that they have the technology down to the size of a CF card. BUT... it's a bit understandable, since 802.11a products are coming out (supposedly) this winter. It makes sense for Compaq to wait until 802.11a technology is small enough to fit in an iPaq PocketPC. There are many enterprises waiting for the 5GHz stuff to come out. At any rate, why do we have to always wait for the cool stuff!?!?!
    • If you don't mind making your IPaq quite a bit bigger, you can get a piggyback module that accepts PCMCIA cards. One of the guys I work with has a PCMCIA 802.11b network card on his IPaq. It's pretty cool. He can roam around the office and still get e-mail, surf, whatever.
      • Yeah at Microsoft they all run around with iPaq's with 802.11 (1X even!)...direct their powerpoint presentations remotely and e-mail and voice-mail or whatever...

        Pretty nifty till you leave the building...what they need is either bluetooth on both iPaq and your cell, or a cellphone inside the iPaq instead of 802.11...

    • Re:802.11 Biznatch (Score:2, Informative)

      by shaka ( 13165 )
      Check out The Gismo [abrandnewworld.se], an addon for the iPaq which provides you with GSM, GPRS and WLAN (802.11b).
      Oh, and did I mention it's developed by my company?

  • Runs QNX as well? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Leif_Bloomquist ( 311286 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @10:38AM (#2358375) Homepage
    Presumably, QNX will run on these [slashdot.org] as well? I guess if you can install Linux, QNX will go on as well. Hopefully the QNX install process with be easier than the Linux one [handhelds.org].

  • Never assume... (and other comments) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Uttles ( 324447 ) <uttles&gmail,com> on Thursday September 27, 2001 @10:44AM (#2358406) Homepage Journal
    ... because it makes an ass out of "u" and me.
    Seriously though, why do you assume it will be designed to run Linux better? I'm just curious as I read the information and all it mentioned was Windows.

    Also, I don't like this spec:
    The H3800 Series combines USB, serial, and power into a single connector. Earlier H3000 Series Pocket PCs have separate USB/Serial and power connectors.
    Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the UNIVERSAL serial bus? I thought the great thing about USB is that as long as you have a USB port you can plug in any USB device. Now you have to make sure you have their special connector to access the USB port...

    Otherwise, it looks pretty cool, if it does run Linux well I may have to get one!

  • PDA: TNG? (Score:5, Informative)

    by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @10:44AM (#2358407) Journal
    Wired has an article [wired.com] on what Palm might be up to with Be. Interesting in light of this story.
    • They either could be up to something, or be performing their traditional organizational shuffle. Palm is the quintessential example of a company that saw a good thing and tried to run with it--but stood still just long enough for their feet to be firmly implanted in drying concrete. The Be acquisition could either be a sign of great things to come, or of aimless buying. I guess time will tell.
  • If you look at the descriptions, One illustration lists the hole on the upper left (correctly) as the earphone jack, the other lists it as the Bluetooth status indicator. And the '5 way' joystick is listed at the voice recorder button. (And what should be the voice recorder button is incorrectly listed as the ambient light sensor.)

    Looks like somebody was a little rushed to print.
  • I'm a proud owner of a Cassiopeia E-100, the first colour handheld ever. It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS that looks nice on benchmarks but can't feed graphics to save its life. The problem is that the E-100 is stuck in time, there's not really much development going on for Windows CE 2.11 and the developers who used to give us a hand-me-down build when compiling for 3.0 usually just blow us off entirely. Some of the new graphics APIs, <dig type="antilinux" style="smug">which don't really have a parellel in Pocket Linux</dig> are very swift and are allowing handhelds to really blow up the market with features like full motion video, great VNC support, and really bitchin' audio interfaces.

    What, say those of you still stuck in the dark ages of the "i can do anything a pencil and paper can do, only 500 times more expensive" PalmOS, why would you want motion video? Well, because it's terribly useful for making a lot of the things you want a palmtop for more descriptive. Take, for example, the latest topographical software that comes with TopoUSA (a maptech product I think). It can display a 3d gradient of an area. Not too useful? I beg to differ. There have been a number of times up in the 'dacks where I've bivouaced up a mountain and come down on the totally wrong side. I can't read contour lines for shit, because I don't have a degree in geography. With the isometric view that this topo software provides, i could just input the direction i was facing, and scroll until the terrain matched what I was seeing (no, GPS wouldn't be useful here, because it would be at least ten meters off...and in a land of overgrown trails and thousand foot cliffs, ten meters is a lot). There are lots of other uses for a decent graphics API, too, such as video conferencing and web browsing.

    However, this new iPaq still has the same crummy 12 bit downsampled (meaning that the proc takes time to shave off the extra 4 bits) screen as its predessors. So while the processor is faster, the display (which is the biggest bottleneck, pocketpcpassion.com had a benchmark showing that even the E-100 could beat the 32 meg iPaq to the screen using the old graphics APIs) is slow as it ever was. Kind of a shame, considering all the features...like putting a big engine, big gas tank, great stereo, leather seats, GPS and handheld telephone into a nice little lightweight chassis, and then gearing it for torque.

    • Contour maps (Score:3, Funny)

      by wiredog ( 43288 )
      I can't read contour lines for shit, because I don't have a degree in geography

      Wow! I didn't realize that my 8 weeks in Army Basic Training qualified me for a degree in geography!

      Seriously, it just takes practice to learn map reading. A lensatic compass helps alot. Up in the mountains is not the place to learn, do it in the foothills. The big advantages of a map and a compass for hiking is that they don't require batteries, and you can drop them without breaking them.

    • Not exactly true (at least if what I've heard is correct)

      http://www.wincecity.com/articles/2001/9/2001-9-19 -Compaq-Readying-New.html [wincecity.com]

      "The other device will join the H3800 line of handhelds. In addition to 64 MB of RAM this high end device will feature a Secure-Digital slot and an active matrix screen that supports 65,536 colors. One feature of the high end device that really intrigues me is that this device is expected to feature voice-command and voice-control software. The possibility of using speech to control a PDA will be a great addition."

      The 12-bit color is a slight turn-off, but the form factor of the ipaq has always killed the casiopeia, plus the ROM on the ipaq is upgradable (probably the biggest selling point for me as I have 2 pretty much obsolite CE 2.x devices).
    • It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS that looks nice on benchmarks but can't feed graphics to save its life

      Erm, the StrongARM is not x86. It is ARM, an extremely nice and powerful RISC ISA. Typically graphics performance will depend on what graphics chip is used in a device, and how much 2D accelleration it has. I bet that a 206MHz StrongARM (old technology now as well) can crush a 133MHz embedded MIPs processor any day of the week...

      The more pertinent question is: when will the iPaq and other devices start to use the even faster and lower power XScale processors that are ARM compatible?

      • The more pertinent question is: when will the iPaq and other devices start to use the even faster and lower power XScale processors that are ARM compatible?

        The XScale is much faster, but is not lower power (Actually draws much more power) and it is not designed for use in handhelds.

        For starters, it runs hot. StrongARM cpus do not.

        Then there's the matter of it not having integrated peripherals like a StrongARM.

        Oh, and did i mention that the XScale is not yet ready for primetime? Nobody seems to have an OS running stable on it yet.

    • Everything I am reading on the new Ipaq says that it will be 16 bit NOT 12bit where are you getting that information?

    • Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      However, this new iPaq still has the same crummy 12 bit downsampled (meaning that the proc takes time to shave off the extra 4 bits) screen as its predessors

      No, internally the graphics are 16-bit. The display can only display 12-bit however. The display automatically turns the 16-bit output into the 12-bit display - no processor time used at all, nor any graphics chip time either. The point is that the iPaq's graphics chip is not as good as the one in the E100, in that the E100's can do more accellerated actions. Or that WinCE2.11 is faster at graphics that PocketPC.

    • It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS

      Where did you get the impression that a StrongARM crunches x86 code at all? It can only execute ARMv4 code.

      I can personally guarantee that a 206mhz SA1110 runs circles around a 133mhz NEC Vr processor.

      The Casio may have a quicker LCD controller, but you definately get a lot more work done per Mhz on an ARMv4 cpu than a MIPSv4 cpu. I work with both archetectures all the time.

      However, this new iPaq still has the same crummy 12 bit downsampled (meaning that the proc takes time to shave off the extra 4 bits) screen as its predessors.

      What do you mean? The SA1110 lcd controller is addressable as a 16 bit display for convenience, but the LCD itself is only capable of displaying 12 bits. Just like your casio.

      Best I can guess, you're either a moron, or a troll, or someone who paid a lot of money for a cheezy mips handheld who has to then attack everything else in existance in order ot defend his expenditure.

    • A GPS is only accurate to 10 meters? Have you actually ever used a GPS, much less one that also has an external antenna? A good map of any kind can help, but a GPS (even a cheap one) does not have to be an inaccurate device, and can be simply much quicker and easier.
      • Acutally, turns out my 10 meters was liberal wishful thinking. Here's the straight poop from Garmin's website and FAQ:

        "With the end of Selective Availability, you can expect horizontal accuracy of 20m to 35m (60' to 105') for older 8 channel units and 7m to 15m (21' to 45') for newer 12 parallel channel units in good reception conditions. For altitude you can expect accuracy to range from +/- 75m (225') for an 8 channel unit and +/- 35m (105') for 12 parallel channel units in good reception conditions. There are a number of environmental conditions that can effect GPS accuracy due to varying satellite signal reception conditions and can therefore lead to better or worse accuracy's than listed above. The satellite status page on most GARMIN GPS units will provide a real-time estimate of the relative accuracy of the position reported by the GPS receiver. "

        So that's accurate within 7 meters if you have a good GPS (fucking expensive) and something more like 25m if you have a regular one. You call that accurate? When trying to find a three foot wide path in a heavily wooded area, knowing that I have between 49 and 625 square feet between where the device says I am and where I actually am is little comfort. In face, it's more what we in the software industry call "fucking useless."
  • It's got more RAM and processor power than my primary PC, Pentium 100 with 32 MB. Yeah, I live in the dark ages, but it works great under Linux, just not X.
  • ... or, considering the iPaq's size, maybe it should be a Gollum cluster of these. ;->
  • This model seems extremely similar, perhaps slightly inferior, to the new HP Jornada 560 series [hp.com], which is due out October 4 (only a week away!)

    In light of the HP/Compaq merger, it seems likely that at least one of these products will either never see the light of day or will be killed in short order. (I vote for croaking the iPaq.)

  • hmm (Score:1)

    by forgoil ( 104808 )
    No XScale, no BT as standard. I guess the other rumours were untrue. I wonder when they will come with MPEG1/2/4 decoders as standard;)
  • So, I thought we'd be seeing the amazing new Xscale interation of Arm in handhelds by now.

    Hasn't the chip been out for a little while, and isn't it supposed to be a lot faster/or have much longer batter life?
    • XScale is intel speak for StrongARM....
      it means, we want to look like we made
      this our selves rathar than just buying
      the plans off somebody else.

      Mainly cause intel have problems keep
      there chip power consumption down. XScale
      is a OEM rebranding of ARM (with some
      minor tweaks)....

      Of course, every ARM chip is really OEM
      with some minor tweaks, since ARM don't
      make silicon............

      Now I remember ARM when it stood for
      Acorn Risc Machine...probably the first
      Desktop machine containing a Risc process,
      no matter what Apple('s marketing dept falsely) claims.

      Must admit, an ARM powered PDA is cool, but
      I really want to get a Cerf cube...

  • I played around with this... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 27, 2001 @11:51AM (#2358792)
    I am working in a Project which uses loads of iPaqs, thats why Compaq invited me and my project collegues to their stand at the Swiss Orbit-Expo on Thuesday to get a demo of the new iPaq. (They told us that there are only 3 of those iPaqs in europe, and I guess they had to, since this was a VIP event :)

    Here is what I found:
    First off the new design is really cute, and the integrated card slot is also very practical, which brings me to the first negative point. Why did they introduce a new card format? (I mean besides the cash, and probably license fees they will get)
    The screen hasn't improved much as far as I could see, but as you may know, the screen was already very sharp and very bright, actually one of the best screens on PDAs over all.
    The new MS OS running on that iPaq was all smooth and anti-aliased, kept in the typical XP style, which itself is of course kept really close to the OS X aqua GUI ;)
    I had the impression that the overall system speed has also somewhat improved.

    What they didn't fix is the fact that the iPaq still does a factory reset when power goes out. Just like a Palm, but my Palm runs over 5 weeks before he does so. And also the iPaq doesn't turn the screen of, say 10 minutes in advance, which would save the RAM contents for some days I guess. OTOH they did include 32 MB of ROM, which makes is possible to install more apps in the ROM.

    The GPRS-Tri-Band jacket which is also brand new, looks like a really nice thing to have if you travel a lot, it gives you "gsm connectivity in virtually any gsm networks on this planet" according to compaq. I think this is pretty much the case, except for some African Networks. Only the price was relatively high, it costs about 550 $ (850.- SFr).
    You use it on the back side, there are integrated mics and speakers on there. This makes sense if you don't need to know how your ears look when pressed upon a glass surface. And of course you would hit buttons on the touchscreen while phoning.

    They also made a little but vital change to the pen, its now completly round so can put it in either way, unlike with the current models where putting the pen in the wrong way can result in a pen stuck in an iPaq.

    Oh, yeah, almost forgot, they have really good coffee and croisants at their stand.
    • Regarding the following:
      "Why did they introduce a new card format? (I mean besides the cash, and probably license fees they will get)"
      I think the SD card format is:
      1. not new, does not the Palm m50x have this?
      2. not a Compaq prop. technology (see above)
      Lastly, IMHO the SD cards are nice and small, allowing greater flexibility in device design without form factor restrictions inherent in the CF or PC Card specifications. [One day I hope to be able to plug one of thier (SD cards) predecessors directly into me!]
    • What they didn't fix is the fact that the iPaq still does a factory reset when power goes out.

      The power died on mine today (I left it on my desk, and I think something was pressing on one of the buttons). I plugged it into a power supply, and it was still OK. No factory reset. How long does it need to be totally without power to do this?
  • I've always considered the availability of specs for the HW the best point of the iPaqs. Being able to review the hardware and port whatever OS you might choose is very encouraging. It looks to me like one of the best opportunities to have a truly secure system.

    That's right, I don't necessarily trust the average motherboard to not have a keylogger built in.
  • Hmmmm. That's that card format that is designed to protect copyrighted content. I'm sure RAM under SD format is just as free as RAM under any other format, but on the whole, I think I'd rather not encourage these people.

    No H3800 for me, thanks.

  • Actually, if you click on the "buy it today" link in the article, it looks like there are 3 models to choose from, including one w/64K colors, and one w/64K colors and bluetooth.

    http://www.pocketpcfanatic.com/compaq.asp?REFERER= 84348 [pocketpcfanatic.com]

    (Note, the referer ID belongs to the pocketpcthoughts guy, not me.)

  • don't buy an iPaq for Linux (Score:3, Informative)

    by mj6798 ( 514047 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @02:07PM (#2359544)
    The iPaqs make nice Linux machines, but the business divisions of Compaq just don't support this. The installation process is a lot of work and you may end up having to send the iPaq back to the factory to be restored. And as long as people keep buying the things with WinCE preinstalled, why should they bother?

    If you want Linux on a PDA, why not buy a Linux PDA? The Agenda VR [agendacomputing.com] is a decent, very compact Linux PDA, and there are several others. And HP has announced a Jornada based on Linux.

    • Some problems I had with the Agenda VR3.

      1. I need rechargeable in the cradle, I tried rechargeable batteries and they just did not cut it.
      2. Color you really want color in a pda these days.
      3. The Compaq Flash adapter for IPAQ just rules, then there is the pcmcia adapter no way to do this
      with the VR3

      I had the developer version of the VR3 and sold it, just could not stand these short falls, but as a base
      idea it was great if they fix the few short falling then I would definitely look into there products again.
      When I let them know this they said they will look into to it for future produces, but I can buy a IPAQ
      now.
  • I've seen the black and white screen iPaqs for $200 with a $50 rebate. Handhelds.org couldn't tell me if it'll run linux. Can you?
  • I'm sorry if this is a bit off-topic...

    I'm looking into handhelds right now to help curb my natural "absentminded professor" tendencies. I have the Palm, the Visor, the iPAQ, and now the VR3.

    The Agenda is already running Linux...what's everyone's take on it versus the iPAQ???

    -PONA-
  • I'll buy an iPaq on the day it has Linux (or just the bootloader) preinstalled, and none of my money goes to a criminal organization. Even if that wasn't relevant, there's absolutely no sense in paying for software that you don't use and actually remove on the first day.

    Well, I might try the Agenda while waiting for the windowless iPaq. It's much cheaper, too.

    I remember that the iPaq Linux port had some problems with the deep sleep mode (APM stuff) earlier. I guess those have been corrected by now? It would be kind of silly to have a PDA which batteries only last 2 hours or so.

  • Jason Dunn sent us to a link on his site about the new new iPaq, which is due out relatively soon. [subject verb?] Aesthetic changes, more memory, and I assume Linux will run on it as well or better then the existing models.

    Dear Cmdr Taco:

    Your first sentence is missing a comma and includes too many instances of the word "new." It is also awkwardly worded. Your second "sentence" is not actually a sentence. You forgot to include a subject and a verb! Plus you should have used the word "than" instead of "then." Was there an English requirement for your GED?

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