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Hardware

Microsoft HomeStation - Son Of XBox Revealed 181

Posted by timothy from the what-the-future-holds dept.
An unnamed reader contributes this link: "PC Formathave story about Microsoft's follow up to the XBox. Rumor is it's a home entertainment centre called HomeStation. It'll offer video and TV on demand, and act as an internet gateway for internet appliances. Profiling is mentioned. The story makes an interesting point about how the XBox's true purpose is to pave the way for Microsoft as a home entertainment brand."
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Microsoft HomeStation - Son Of XBox Revealed More

Microsoft HomeStation - Son Of XBox Revealed

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  • Sounds cool, but I wonder if it'll have a tiny camera inside it so it can send Microsoft information about our habits so they can make new products that will suit us, therefor completely taking over our lives.
    • Sounds cool, but I wonder if it'll have a tiny camera inside it so it can send Microsoft information about our habits so they can make new products that will suit us, therefor completely taking over our lives.

      Of course... Ever see the movie, "Anti-trust?" ;)
  • You know. I know that people on /. give MS a lot of flack... hell, there are instances in which they deserve it.

    I don't mean to sound like a dick. I know that this will get modded down... but hell. More power to them. Expansion is a good thing and if I were Bill I'd be trying to get MS tied into just about everything too. I'd like to be the first person in this post to say that I don't think that this is a bad thing. I'll get me an x-box and one of these too I'm sure.
    • Modded down? seems you've gotten a +2 for the post. Anyway, I don't really think it is a bad thing either, it could even be good - a machine that acts as a computer/dvd/console/etc at an affordable price (if it is affordable) would be a godsend to some people. It does seem that MS is starting to get tied into everything though, and that kind of scares me. Oh well, it's Bill's right to make more money, but if I were him I'd buy New Zealand and retire.

      • This will probably also be modded down but.... (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Apparently you have yet to grasp the finer points of karma whoreing on /.

        Any post that starts with "this will probably be modded down but..." or the like are always modded up.

        Whether this is because moderators like to be unpredictable or there is some other reason is yet unknown to me. So the effect of the subject of this post is not quite known (if they just like to be unpredictable, they'll probably mod down, as modding up is predicted elsewhere in this post. But if the reason is something else, then they will probably mod up).

        Anonymous karma whore.

    • Re:MS Toys (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dimator ( 71399 )
      I'll get me an x-box and one of these too I'm sure.

      You've stated the problem with your attitude right there in that sentence. You're already planning to buy one of these HomeStations, just because of the brand attached to it. All you've seen is a one page article, the picture could be phony, the quotes could be phony, but it seems you don't care.

      That's the real problem with Microsoft being "tied into just about everything." People are willing to buy, buy, buy, based solely on brand-name and not quality or comparison. Name one other industry (if you can still call Microsoft a one-industry company) where you can get away with that? Will Ford ever make microwaves? Will AT&T ever make vacuums?

      • .. sells light bulbs and insurance!
      • No... Ford doesn't make Microwaves... But has everyone seem to overlook Japanese companies? They make Microsoft look like a kid in a sandbox, while they own the playground.

        Look at Seiko, Mitsubishi, Yamaha. Now tell me that there is another industry that doesn't do that. They make cars, rice cookers, microwave, computer components, cell phones, pay loaders... blah blah blah.

        One third of the products you buy that are created by someone like Mitsubishi are created under another name!

        Yes, I do agree that most americans are "brand stupified" but... c'mon... The buy it because it's microsoft I just don't agree with.
        (Mostly they won't buy Microsoft, 'cause most people think Microsoft is a big meanie, even people who don't understand the hate-microsoft movement fully)
      • Let's see, besides the already-mentioned GE, we have Mitsubishi, which builds everything from cars to super tankers to fighter jets to automobiles stereo systems to microwave ovens to consumer batteries and cell phones. (There are numerous other companies that have similar 'product lines', like Daewoo and Samsung). We have companies like Honeywell which has made things as diverse as computers, assorted IT equipment, telephones, and machine guns. Compared to companies like these, MS hardly looks diversified, let alone "tied into just about everything".
        • The problem is that Microsoft also sells content and services. GE doesn't force you to use GE lightbulbs if you are going to use a GE refridgerator. Do you honestly believe that Microsoft is going to easily allow you to use Yahoo search through their devices or access AOL services? Of course not. Want to do a web search you will likely be 'encourages' to use Microsofts own web search tools and when you search for 'national news' do you think CNN will be the first listed or msnbc.com? It's not about Microsoft being diversified it is about Microsoft influencing peoples behaviour and about Microsoft controlling the internet. It is about Microsoft decreasing peoples choice.
      • Hrmm..

        FreeBSD
        Oracle
        GCC
        X
        My whole computer is run by software made by other companies. I just think it sounds like a nice device. It has little to do wtih the fact that MS makes it.
    • "Expansion is a good thing..."

      Yes, it is, but according to the article, "...the device is likely to be a non-upgradeable sealed unit...". (Yes, I realize you meant a different kind of expansion.)

      At least if I buy a VCR or TV I can buy the service manual or the Sams, even if the unit isn't designed to be modified by the customer. Anybody think Microsoft is going to be any more open source on hardware than they are on software, especially since they can change the subscribed to service a few years later and make all these things obsolete so that you have to go out and buy another one, or maybe even send a little code down the wire to cripple or disable your old unit? And of course if you have to get all the content for this thing from Microsoft, they can raise rates at will in a way that cable companies can only dream about.

      Another thing the article says, "The device's launch is heavily dependant on broadband becoming widely available...", makes me think that the slow roll out of fat pipes may have an unexpected benefit, by keeping this thing from achieving critical mass.

      • Re:MS Toys (Score:2, Interesting)

        by mprinkey ( 1434 )
        "Non-expandable"? Ha! Maybe until we get it home. How many Xboxes will have their warantees invalidated as new users buy them for $199 and hack them up? I suspect to see an article about one week after the initial rollout where somebody has hacked this, and reverse-engineered that and has Linux/FreeBSD/BEOS/Aethos running on the thing. Then everyone will run out and buy one and stick an extra 80-GB hard drive or two into it and hack video4linux into it. We will remake it in our own image and feel all the more smug about it.

        It will happen. This community will co-opt *anything* and use it for our own purposes. Moreover, this treads in a technology domain that the community knows all too well. Once the nut is cracked, everyone will flock to buy up Xboxes/Homestations and use them for non-MS-endorsed purposes. Then we will all sit around and pat each other on the back and marvel at how great it is to be ruining Microsoft's profitability.

        No matter what, MS will be "stupid" in our book.

        So this is a bit cynical, but I think it is realistic. MS will profit by this. Our niche will hack something "better" from it. We will be self congratulatory and derisive. The great cycle of life continues on /.

        Sure glad it's Friday.

        • Re:MS Toys (Score:3, Interesting)

          by unitron ( 5733 )
          The Xbox may be hackable, but the Home Station will likely be set up so that you have to subscribe, i.e., give MS your credit card number and agree to 1 or more years worth of monthly payments, with a substantial penalty for early termination, the way that cell phone companies do when you get a "free" phone when you sign up for service, so that the combined cost will make it uneconomical to buy the HS just for the hardware, and they'll probably do their very best to make the HS hardware unusable for anything except a doorstop without the Microsoft sold content. I'm sure that MS has taken notice of what's happened to other companies that took a loss on hardware that they expected to make up on subscriptions or whatever, only to discover that they shouldn't have sold the razor without getting a signed contract for a year or two worth of blades.
        • How many Xboxes will have their warantees invalidated as new users buy them for $199 and hack them up?

          Well if that is your criteria - none. The XBox is $299, of course you cannot preorder them for $299 now, you can only get them in the bundles for like $499 with a few games.

          Gamecube is $199, no idea if you will be able to buy it for $199 initially, they will probably do a bundle deal too. Of course since it has no HD it is a little more trouble to hack.

          At any rate I agree that the XBox will be hacked in no time at all. Anybody want to bet that the XBox firmware is probably encrypted, which means that hacking it is a violation of the DMCA...
      • Anybody think Microsoft is going to be any more open source on hardware than they are on software.

        You must not be talking about WinCE (I know, it's "Shared Source", not GPL'd), The .NET CLR (Read: their next generation development platform), or C#. Your argument is like saying that because Sony doesn't release their proprietary software that they put on their laptops, that their TV's will not come with and technical documentation.
    • It's not the idea of the 'Homestation' that is the problem it is what Microsoft will do when it gets this technology in everyones living rooms. They aren't selling us XBox and Homestation they are selling themselves control of how people access the internet. Once they control the access point to the internet they will use it to push MSN online services on everyone shutting out others. Once again we will become dependent on Microsoft.
    • I believe this is called "free enterprise" and as such isn't this great. Amother reason I stil like America the best!
    • I partially agree with you. Sooner or later, the hardware market will saturate and the economy of scale which has made Windows affordable will turn against Microsoft and make Windows expensive. When that happens, Linux and/or FreeBSD will be there and quite happily start gobbling up the entire OS market. I think that Microsoft is aware of this and this is why they are pushing .NET and the X-Box so hard-- these they hope will be the the new cash-cows for their company (while Linux-based services with be the Gnu cash-cow for Red Hat).

      Of course no one at Microsoft will tell you this because they want you to buy XP (integrated with Passport) and subscription-based licensing that no business in their right mind would buy because failure to pay your "software rent" would remove all your servers and workstations from production.

      But that being said, I don't think the folks at Redmond are stupid. They know how this economy works, and what it means. To see the effects of the economy of scale, all you have to do is look at the price of an RS/6000 workstation from IBM. I don't think that they will start making Microwave ovens anytime soon, but they know that they have to move away from being dependent on sales of their software bundled with hardware...

  • I don't understand (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ubi_UK ( 451829 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @03:31AM (#2262376)
    I haven't seen any Xboxes in the store yet. What is the point of advertising an upgrade to a product that hasn't been sold yet? Why would people buy the Xbox when they can apparently wait a few monts to get a much better version?
    • Lets start our own FUD tactics. We say that there are rumors of an even better Xbox in a few months and after that the Xbox-neXt. Or that later versions of the Xbox are going to have more features, more memory, faster graphics card etc. But don't tell anyone, it's all very secret!

      -Crae

    • Re:I don't understand (Score:2, Informative)

      by ragnarok ( 6947 )
      Did you even read the article, or is that just too much to ask? They are not advertising this thing yet, for precisely that reason. They want to concentrate on X-Box for now, then in 12-18 months they'll role out the homestation.
      • Well, of course they're advertising it. You don't think this information leaks itself, do you?
        • If this is an "information leak" it is most likely being leaked from nintendo or sony...why would anyone leak information that damages themselves?

          This looks like a hoax and smells like a hoax.
          • This doesn't damage them in any way. The number one reason Microsoft is #1 on the desktop is integration. If you are making your decision of PS2 + tivo or XBox + MStivo95 you're going to go for the pair that works together just like you do with your office suite/operating system/web browser. THAT is what's going on here. Dreams of compatability and interoperability dancing in consumers' heads will help fuel Xbox sales. That's the point of this vaporware information leak.
  • So if microsoft is plannig to occupy the home entertainment channel with their devices while the home Geek will still have Linux, MenuetOS, BSD's, to grow his computer-related abilities...

    It reminds me of the early eighties when the people willing to be entertained by electronic devices used Nintendo's Game&Watch or Atari/Coleco... while the others Geeks would just code anything (compact) in BASIC.

    I hope Microsoft doesn't plan to leave only expensive "professional" solutions to the home hobbyist coder or it may look like there won't be many MS-coders around in 25 years...
    • I remember when the Nintendo Entertainment System was all the rage in the late 80's...someone wrote a book that said Nintendo was using the NES to get themselves into lots of homes, and would then start using it to control all the family entertainment...it did, after all, have an expansion port that they could use to add new devices. The whole thing sounded a little far-fetched and paranoid then, but MS is certainly making it seem more and more possible.
  • Is it just me or does anyone else have doubts about a society that would allow one company to dictate our computing needs (work, games, home automation etc) to such an extent. If Microsoft are going ahead with this idea, they should make the hardware/software more open to allow competitors and user choice.

    I guess I'm not surprised that Microsoft would do this, but I do wonder at the logic. Do they really think that people would be willing to have all computing functions (hardware/software/comms) controlled by a single company.......

  • Whoa, Slashdot's back up again? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Please explain why anybody is going to buy services from VA Linux when they can't even keep their most visible site working.


    Sincerely,

    Eric S. Raymond ("Surprised by de-listing")

  • MS and Hardware (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MasterOfDisaster ( 248401 ) <kristopf@gmELIOTail.com minus poet> on Friday September 07, 2001 @03:43AM (#2262396) Homepage Journal
    I've said it before, I'll say it again.

    While I do often bash MS's software, their hardware is normaly top-notch. They've got good engineers, and with the nFORCE (and with it, most likely an AMD CPU) and all the nice stuff the nFORCE has (AC3 encoding, nVidia graphics, AMD, lack of intel) this box will probly be fairly nice tech-wise. Combine that with the Microsoft name, probly one of the most known corp. on the planet, and you have a big seller right here. The one thing I dont love is the fact it runs XP (however, besides being windows, one if it's biggest faults is product activation, something that wont matter in this case, due to the fact you wont be upgrading it) I personaly think this is something MS should have kept hidden to boost sales on the xbox.
    If this thing runs windows and can run PC and xbox games, does that mean my copy of XP (no I dont have one, nor am I planing on it) will run xbox games? or does this copy of XP have some magic DDLs that will run them? (how long till those find their way to the net to become the ULTIMATE emu.)
    as much as I hate to say it, I do have some respect for MS's R&D team. Dont bash it till you've seen it, guys.

    • Quite right. I'll be getting an XBox first thing on Nov. 8, and next thing I'll do is crack it open and get Linux running on it. After all, it's a seemingly quite well-designed PC in a nice case, and it's got a HDD and USB. So what else do you want for $299? Nobody said you have to keep the whatever-OS-they-put-on-it.. :-)
    • Didn't Intel buy their way back into the XBox? I thought there was an annoucement a while back (6-8 months) that Intel would be supplying the CPUs.
    • Huh?
      They've got good engineers, and with the nFORCE (and with it, most likely an AMD CPU) and all the nice stuff the nFORCE has (AC3 encoding, nVidia graphics, AMD, lack of intel)


      First off, Intel is supplying a P3 processor (733mhz I believe) for all X-Boxes. There are licensing disagreements between Intel and Nvidia (who actually makes the nForce chipset), so Nvidia can't make P3 compatible motherboards. But Microsoft does have a license, so MS used their license to arrange an nForce and P3 compatible motherboard.



      Second, most of MS's products are good, but their technology is not theirs in the first place. See those touted laser optical mice? If I'm not mistaken, the exact same technology is used in Logitech's mice since the company that originally researched and developed it either licensed or sold it out. Besides the software related side and possibly the design of the controllers and the box, none of the internal stuff (motherboard, cpu, etc.) are theirs.



      And also, I think that the X-Box runs some form of the Windows 2000 kernel with a special DirectX 8.0 layer. You don't need to register your X-Box either unless they've been hiding that fact for the past few months.



      Finally, since 1) the games are probably encoded on a DVD format, 2) there is a special version of DirectX, and 3) your hardware is probably pretty slow compared to the X-Box's (GeForce3, P3 733mhz, nForce), the chances of your game running on your home PC are probably very low. Someone will of course create an "emulator" for it.

    • Think about it.

      Remember, Xbox sports a 10/100Base-T Ethernet adaptor and support for 480p/720p/1080i component video. It doesn't take much to figure out this could become the basis of a very nice home entertainment device if you combine the functions of WebTV and Ultimate TV into such a device.

      If Microsoft markets it right it could become a hot seller for homes with monitors and projection TV's that support 480p/720p/1080i component video inputs.
    • Bang on. The one place where MS has serious competition and no monopoly advantages is hardware. And what are their products like? Arguably the best on the market.

      Good technology, good prices, excellent quality, innovative. Really good value for the money.

      Strip away the paranoia and there is a great company there, struggling to get out.

      That's the real tragedy, IMHO.
    • MS don't have good engineers, nVidia do, nFORCE is produced by nVidia in case the 'n' didn't give it away. There will be an nFORCE chipset for the Athlon, then the P4, however the nFORCE in the xBox interfaces with a P3-600.

  • HomeStation? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ayon Rantz ( 210766 ) <qristus@hotmail.com> on Friday September 07, 2001 @04:12AM (#2262397) Homepage
    I have it on good authority that the box will actually be called "My Games Console".

  • homestation.com? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by angkor ( 173812 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @05:51AM (#2262400)
    I wonder who's really got the domain. Network Solutions shows it expired in May, 2000.
    Registrant: Sue Almand (HOMESTATION-DOM)
    51 Ocean Breeze Drive
    Atlantic Beach, FL 32233
    US

    Domain Name: HOMESTATION.COM

    Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:
    Almand, Sue (SA4428) scalmand@EARTHLINK.NET
    51 Ocean Breeze Drive
    Atlantic Beach,, FL 32233
    904-246-0131
    Technical Contact:
    Eclipse Communications Hostmaster (EC136-ORG) hostmaster@ECLIPSE-COMM.COM
    Eclipse Communications
    701 W. 4th St.
    South Pittsburg, TN 37380
    US
    423-837-4955
    Fax- - 423-629-6121

    Record last updated on 26-Jul-2001.
    Record expires on 23-May-2000.
    Record created on 23-May-1998.
    Database last updated on 6-Sep-2001 18:26:00 EDT.

    Domain servers in listed order:

    NS1.ECLIPSE-COMM.COM 209.75.67.159
    NS2.ECLIPSE-COMM.COM 209.75.67.160

  • A little early perhaps? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NTSwerver ( 92128 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @05:56AM (#2262406) Journal
    I haven't even seen an XBox in the flesh yet. Surely advertising it's predecessor won't do XBox sales any good. There are bound to be people who'll be thinking "Hmmmm......I don't think I'll but that XBox now, I'll wait for the next one."

    On a side note: What is going on with /.? This is the first time I've been able to log in for the last 24 hours. Why doesn't someone just post an article explaining the problem instead of seemingly pretending that nothing is wrong?
    • Saw one on "Tonight II" the other day. The "reporters" took it, and the Nintendo "cube," to Sony, to show it to Sony's PS2 development team.
      They seemed impressed - of course they were acting very "blasé" ... One guy was quite SURPRISED by the XBox's size - it's about 3.5 times bigger than the Nintendo cube.
    • I haven't even seen an XBox in the flesh yet. Surely advertising it's predecessor won't do XBox sales any good.

      This wasn't an ad, in fact the entire tone of the article smells like a leak especially the part about talking to potential partners who state "you aren't supposed to know abut this". Considering how secretive the X-Box guys were within Microsoft I'm not surprised that I worked there and this is the first I'm hearing of it.

      Of course it makes sense, X-Box is just a console. It would be extremely stupid of MSFT not to at least try and leverage the X-Box it to something much more considering the fact that they have content, an ISP, a desktop and server OS, and games.
      • If it is a leak I wonder if they'll get the lawyers involved - a la Apple.

        If this was an article, including picture, leaking info/specs about a new piece of Apple hardware, their lawyers would go ballistic. They've done this many times in the past, forcing the removal of the article/pictures from the offending website.
    • What is going on with /.? This is the first time I've been able to log in for the last 24 hours.

      Tell me about it... for a long while, no matter what page I clicked on, I got the default /. home page. I could not log in either.

      And what the hell is up with hiding status reports in unrelated article threads [slashdot.org]?

      Eh, it'll all get ironed out sooner or later...
    • Surely advertising it's predecessor won't do XBox sales any good.
      And what would that be? Win3.1? DOS?

  • DivX ;-) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Troed ( 102527 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @05:59AM (#2262410) Homepage Journal
    One of the reasons DivX isn't loved by the die-hard net-movie fanatics is that it's not viewable from their home cinema system (DVD-player). A lot of us don't have our computers even near that living room area :) (large flats/houses, we're not in dorms anymore) - among us, VCD and SVCD is still the thing to use.


    However, with the X-box and the HomeStation (?) this will change. Here's a device with large storage capabilites and easily upgraded with the right DLL to become a DivX player.


    Nice work MS, but will the MPAA like this? ;)

    • Wouldn't that be fun to see!

      Imagine the point where (or should that be 'when') MS's desire for world domination puts them head to head with the MPAA and RIAA.

      We already know that the government's conduct remedy against the RIAA last year for price fixing on CDs was as effective as the last conduct remedy against MS, several years ago.

    • Re:DivX ;-) (Score:2, Insightful)

      by hrm ( 26016 )
      Don't count on MS and the MPAA fighting in the streets anytime soon. Sure, it'll probably be possible to upgrade an xbox (is it a xbox or an xbox? help!) to play divx ;-) encoded movies, but don't expect MS to help you do it. Instead, expect undocumented-except-under-NDA interfaces and a default multimedia player system that is quite biased against playing local non-streaming content.

      In fact, Microsoft's goal will be quite in line with the MPAA; a pay-per-view scheme using broadband internet or possibly, lacking broadband access, a return of the original Divx scheme, with local movie content that needs to be activated. The only thing MS and the MPAA might disagree on is how large a cut of the transaction goes to MS.

      So, in short, based on it's heritage, an xbox is likely to be more hackable than, say, a dreamcast or playstation. But that's about it. We will see Divx on the xbox, but I'm not sure which will get there first: the rotten old circuit city scheme or the rogue codec.
  • Like or love Microsoft, this kind of technology is what has been talked about for a while, but no-one has ever managed to implement. Perhaps MS with their easy accessability (for the user) might make the dream a reality with this kind of box; imagine it; listen to your favourite music anywhere in the house, all served from your home entertainment centre (MS's box, in this case).

    Possibly an unpopular view, but isn't this what home networks were made for (except for gaming, of course!)?

    • I was up in the electronics district of Tokyo a few weeks back and saw a sweet little barebones PC. About the size of a couple of chemistry books.
      One nice thing about it was that it had a Video (NTSC) out plug right next to the USB and firewire. Look through the 'Older Stuff' on slashdot and find that recent game console that someone made. (In the clear case) Look at the menus he made.
      Add DiVx support. Add a fast net connection. Add a game controller and IR remote.
      If I knew the Video Out on this box would have Linux drivers, I would have bought it on the spot.
      I really don't see what's missing...

      In reality, Macintosh could sweep away all of the competition for the AV market if they released a $500-$1000 box that looked great, served up audio and video, had hardware DVD/MPG/vcd/DiVx decoding, as well as being a home file server (SAMBA/NFS/HTTP) and net connection sharing machine over an Apple AirPort connection...
      Think about it - Your DVD player, PVR, music/video collection all sitting on one great-looking box next to your home theater system. Your company might also have one, filling the niche that the Qube never quite filled. Web/mail server and voip/video conferencing box all in one.
      Think it won't happen?
      They already have some deal with Harmon Kardon for speakers. I can't imagine that no one over there isn't thinking along the same lines as me.
      Personally, I can't wait until it does. I'll but one.
      As for games, I have no idea. I never play them, except to say that if you try to sell a game console as a PC, it will wind up biting you in the ass a short time later; Here in Japan, Game consoles were sold as "famicon" a few years back, the word being a bastardization of "Family Computer". Personally, I think that marketing a quickly-outdated game console as a computer soured a lot of people on the idea that a computer is a useful thing to have in your home. It still hasn't recovered here. Lots of people just don't have a PC. They use their cellphones for messaging and email and some web browsing and are satisfied.
      Over here, at least, if you want to add a box to someone's house, you've got to replace three others.

      Cheers,
      Jim in Tokyo

  • Watch out Sony, Panasonic etc... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TangoCharlie ( 113383 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @06:11AM (#2262428) Homepage Journal
    Any company which has gone it head-to-head against Microsoft has lost (Novell, Borland/Inprise, Corel, Lotus etc. etc.). If MS is going into the home entertainment area, then it's time for Sony etc. to get worried. Don't think Microsoft won't destroy you.
    Novell used to think that supporting DOS was a good idea... then came NT.
    Borland used to think writing compilers for DOS/Windows was a good idea. Then came Visual Studio.
    WordPerfect used to think that writing a word processor for DOS/Windows was a good idea, then came Word (for Windows).
    Lotus used to think that writing a spreadsheet for DOS/Windows was a good idea, then came Excel.
    Sony use to think that making stereos/playstations/etc. was a good idea, then came HomeStation.
    How can we stop this?

    We can't. AfxMessageBox("You're Screwed!")

  • A Fun PR Move... (Score:3, Funny)

    by krmt ( 91422 ) <therefrmhere@yah o o . com> on Friday September 07, 2001 @06:16AM (#2262434) Homepage
    Damn it, I wish Microsoft had thought of this.

    You know the original demo for the N64, the one they incorporated in to Mario64, where you could play with Mario's face and distort it and tweak it? I think Microsoft should do the same demo for the XBox with Bill G's face and maybe Steve Ballmer's as well.

    Think of how much fun that would be to play with! Way cooler than the Mario demo. Plus, it'd be a funny PR move, showing they have a sense of humor.

    I also hope they don't keep the name as HomeStation. It sounds like something out of a military movie: "Echo troop to home station, do you copy?" Brrr! Call it something cozy and consumer-friendly, like... I don't know... Microsoft Bob.
    • I'd sooner trust a shark's smile.
    • You know the original demo for the N64, the one they incorporated in to Mario64, where you could play with Mario's face and distort it and tweak it? I think Microsoft should do the same demo for the XBox with Bill G's face and maybe Steve Ballmer's as well.

      All you need is a Mac with iMovie, a few clips from MS executive keynotes, and you can produce stuff like this [mac.com].

      Trying to make Bill and Steve look goofier would be like trying to make the Pope more religious.

  • Another reason they want to keep this secret (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sopuli ( 459663 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @06:24AM (#2262444)
    Games-wise, it's anticipated HomeStation will play both PC and Xbox titles.


    If the above statement is true, it becomes much less atractive to develop games specifically for Xbox. By building a PC version you would already cover PC and HomeStation users.

  • Must be a hoax (Score:5, Insightful)

    by costas ( 38724 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @06:30AM (#2262450) Homepage
    This has to be a hoax. The picture on the site is terrible, and the details don't make much sense (will be able to play PC games? what PC games? how, if it's a locked down 2nd generation XBox?)

    And "HomeStation"? I mean, com'on, you mean to tell me that MS will spend millions promoting the XBox brand and they will not use it for this (call it XBox TV or something?). I don't buy it.
    • I couldn't agree more.

      The most amazing thing, to me, about this article is the number of people who seem to believe it. If M$ had a system like this in the works you can be damn sure we'd know about it a year before it's launch.

    • Of course it's a hoax, ok microsoft are bound to be working on a neXt Box, that's always the way with video games consoles. But they aren't going to be talking about it just yet let alone releasing pictures of it! It's clearly a dodgy artists impression. Come on, do you really believe those quotes?

      Another thing, XBox already has a large harddrive, broadband capabilities, GeForce graphics and Dolby Digital sound! The nforce chipset is based on the xbox, it's southbridge (the 'mcp') contains the core logic and sound hardware found in the xbox, it doesn't make sense to base the next xbox on the nforce!

      Also, do you really think m$ would use a name so close to their competitors (Playstation) and ditch their (by then) well established xbox brand?

      I can't believe anyone fell for this.
    • I'll buy that. I mean, honestly, the following quote from an MS source: "I can't say a thing. Listen, the thing is, Microsoft is sidestepping this so as not to distract from the Xbox. It's really hush hush hush - I don't know where you heard this!"

      Nobody - not the janitor - at MS would be so unsophisticated as to give a response like this to a product that was really intended to be secret. Other references were made as well, to MS spokespeople expressing 'shock'.

      C'mon... this is one of the world's most media-savvy organizations. Whether this is a hoax or not, I think Microsoft wants people to know about it. They're trying to generate a buzz.

      (Oh, and I loved the line 'MS is trying to free its corporate anchor from the PC.' Funny, I freed my PC from Microsoft's anchor years ago when I installed my first copy of Linux ;)

    • The picture is most definitely a 3D rendering. For one thing, the edges of the shadows are too crisp.

      Whether or not it's an actual MS product, I don't know. However, this makes perfect sense. Steve Jobs talks about Apple positioning the Mac as the "digital hub" for a wide array of personal devices. I don't see the computer as a personal digital hub yet, really (most people I know don't have that many devices!). But there is an opportunity in the market to position a computer or game console as an "entertainment hub", connecting to your TV and stereo systems. People have been talking about the mythical "set top box" for at least a decade, but we are only just now at a place where it's a possibility, because of a) DVD, b) digital video recording, and c) affordable broadband internet.

      Let's run through the potential capabilities of this box: It plays DVD's. It plays A-list console games. It controls your TV and stereo systems. It provides program guides and digitally records from TV and Radio. It plays audio CD's. It rips, stores and plays MP3's. It streams internet radio stations. It streams full-screen full-motion video on demand (ok, that one may be in the future still).

      I was a little disappointed that they didn't position the X-Box as an entertainment hub, but I guess they needed to establish the X-Box as a bona-fide gaming machine first (to gain a market foothold), and then gradually move in with the HomeStation.

      My only disappointment is that Microsoft is going to be the one to hit the market with this type of device first. Apple was heading in this direction 5 years ago with the Pippin; a TV console device that played games (it would have played DVD's, too, but the technology was too new and the cost was prohibitive). However, Apple once again hit on an interesting idea that they didn't know how to market, and now Pippin is as painful a word to Apple as Bob is to Microsoft.
    • In all fairness, I must point out that the article said HomeStation was the internal code name for the product. Just like Whistler was the codename for Windows XP. The finished product might very well have an XBOX brand name.

      However on all the other counts, I have to agree that the article sounds like a complete hoax.
    • The device will finally turn the idea of digital convergence into a living room reality

    What, again? Like the PS2, TiVO, like enhanced cable decoders, TV out cards, and (oh, yeah) the X-box did?

    The X-box already has the spec to do all this, so what Microsoft are really saying is that they failed to figure out how to sell services on the back of it. HomeStation looks just like what the X-box was supposed to be (with a bigger hard drive), plus the breathing space to let the software and network guys actually get it right this time.

    So lets say that X-box sells well, and two years down the line, M$ start marketing HomeStation with essentially the same hardware, but ongoing costs. They're going to have a hard time persuading people to throw their X-boxen in the cellar and pay out again for a new box that does exactly the same thing. Yes, it also does what a TiVO does, but the point is that in two year's time, anyone who wants and X-box or a TiVO is already going to have one (or both), and it's going to be hard to persuade them to pay out again just to save themselves half a cubic foot or so of real estate.

  • The Xbox isn't even out yet and already it's successor has been named.

    MS vapor deluxe.
  • ...did anyone see the commercials last night on TV? i think it might have only been in canada, not sure though...

    [tidbit type="pointless"]The dude in the Xbox commercial is the lead personal trainer at my gym [/tidbit]
  • All the components are readily available - including Linux ;-)

    The only thing missing is a nice, small and noiseless cabinet, which will hold a microATX/FlexATX motherboard and not stand out when placed next to the TV.

    Does anybody know about such a cabinet - one that I could actually place in my living room without my girlfriend complaining?
  • The name just sounds like it comes from Sony. Besides, what exactly that this HomeStation does that X-Box is not able to do?

  • MS makeing PeeCees? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Friday September 07, 2001 @08:11AM (#2262589) Journal
    Games-wise, it's anticipated HomeStation will play both PC and Xbox titles.

    MS is entering some interesting territory, they are COMPETING with their own customers. Compaq, Dell, IBM *also* sell PCs for this purpose... I wonder how they will feel when the XBox v2.0 starts to serve the same functions, in the home setting, as their product.

    One of the cardinal rules of business: Never take a product 'direct' to market, and compete with your customers with the product that they BUY FROM YOU. It will leave a bad taste in the mouths of the people who *used* to be your customers.. there will be desire, on their part, to collectively THUMP you.

    The Xbox is the single-handedly most astonishingly brash thing MS is doing right now - they are really looking at taking over the Home-PC market. Will XBox v4.0 be a Proprietary Computer? Will MS start selling full featured PC work-a-likes, sure they might call them appliances... but if it smells like a monopoly, and acts like a monopoly....

    • MS is entering some interesting territory, they are COMPETING with their own customers.... One of the cardinal rules of business: Never take a product 'direct' to market, and compete with your customers with the product that they BUY FROM YOU.

      MS has been doing this with software for years, and doing quite well, thank you. Any company that writes software for windows is a development partner, customer, and competitor of Microsoft, all at the same time!

      Why should the hardware vendors miss out on all this fun?

      The Xbox is the single-handedly most astonishingly brash thing MS is doing right now

      Again, they've done some equally brash things in the past (RE: the stuff that prompted the very first consent decree, like charging PC vendors for Windows based on every box they ship, whether or not it actually shipped with Windows). We all just weren't paying as much attention back then.

    • If I were a PC builder, I would be worried about this. It's one thing for Microsoft to build mice, joysticks and other peripherals. Here, they are competing directly with the box builders. And for some reason, I expect Microsoft can afford to undercut others because they can give themselves a really good deal on the OS. I suppose they would account for it in a different fashion, though (We are losing $n/box on the hardware and paying $n for the OS. Honest.)
      • It's even worse than that. Just as application developers discovered that they had a much harder time getting their apps. to work under Windows than did MS itself, imagine GateWay finding that their machines just don't seem to run Windows as reliably as MS's XBox.


        This gives Microsoft a whole new arena for dirty tricks.

    • PC manufacturers == suckers.

      They should have seen this coming from miles away, esp after the XBox was announced. It's not like Microsoft hasn't competed with its former partners time and time again.

      The rise of the XBox will only contribute to the decline of PC gamers who feel the need to buy cutting-edge home PCs for the latest game.

      It's going to be bittersweet watching all the PC manufacturers who set up the Microsoft monopoly get a spanking from it as it turns its warchest on their markets.

      Bet Linux is looking more and more attractive...
  • It'll offer video and TV on demand



    Wow, video and tv on demand? that's as cool as my tv and vcr!

  • as many people have pointed out, there is something fishy here. But that aside...

    Repeat after me, I will not enter Sony's territory. Good god, I think this would be a gigantic error for Microsoft. I can see it now

    "In today's news, Computer giant IBM teamed up with Electronics industry leader Sony to produce a new product. When asked the purpose of the product, an industry spokesperson said, 'To crush Microsoft out of existance. They are a worm and we're tired of them being uppity." It is rumored that they newly formed Hewlett-Compaq is also a part of the delveopment of said product"
  • As much as I hate M$ products, I still can't wait to get a hold of an X-Box.

    Is it wrong?

  • It's a Hoax, Folks (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    With all the resources at Microsoft's disposal, you're telling me you can believe for even a moment that that ugly metal brick with radiator fins, cut-paste control panel from a Media Player skin, and (get this) no Microsoft logo anywhere on it... You think this load of hooie is for real?

    Burry this story back in the dungheap it came from and get on with the world of only slightly distorted reality.

    I'll get back to developing a game for the Xbox. (I look at the Xbox on my desk and laugh at this story, folks... LAUGH I tell you.)

  • The Final Front? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Tigerfoot ( 232345 )
    Not surprising and a perfectly logical move for Bill Gates & team. A PC is still, despite all attempts of MS to the contrary, an open and general-purpose machine. MS will probably never have 100% control of it and will always have a cloud of legal storms surrounding its attempts to shut everyone else out.

    Enter the XBox. It's a closed platform. There's absolutely no reason or pretense it needs to be open. They control 100% from hardware, OS, software, etc. It seems clear they find value in a strategy to expand the "point solution" platform to encompas more and more of what general-purpose PCs do today. Once locked into anti-competive platforms (and to be sure the services that will accompany them), MS can achieve the kind of mindshare domination they've always wanted. By that point maybe they won't even care if there are still a few geeks running around loose who still use PCs with Linux!

    Interesting, eh? When they finally produce their suite of digi-appliances any attempt to use or modify them in some non-MS-approved manner will at least void the warrantee and be unsupported and at worst be criminal. (Oh... you thought you owned that appliance? Terribly sorry, sir, you only licenced it and your modification constitutes actionable breach of your license agreement!)

  • Perspective (Score:2, Interesting)

    by wcbrown ( 184278 )
    This story sure makes this article [washingtonpost.com] much more understandable.
  • Lawyers: "No, its a HOMEstation, dont get confused by playing on the home station, Sony is a plague on the earth....much like open source, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket."
  • The Siemens HomeStation [my-siemens.com] is a docking adapter for cell phones. It both recharges the phone and diverts its incoming calls to the landline, so you only have to deal with one phone when at home.
  • Sounds like they're trying to have consumers confuse their new product with eComStation.
  • Remember that old joke about how it will be like when microsoft runs everything? Well, this is just a step closer isn't it? MS already owns your computer and periferals, soon it will be your game console, but while they are doing that, why not just make your entire entertainment center MS? All your stereo components will talk nicely togeather, and the increase in functionality (video on demand, auto-ripping/availability of cds from your MS-cd player to your MS-pda (WinCE) and your computer and your car (auto-pc) will all be automatic? And MS has the budget for R&D to do this as well.

    I may be a cynic and grasping at conspiricy theories here, but this is the start of a big strategic positioning for them (now they have that silly DOJ thing bought off^w^wdealt with. This is why MS has to be stopped as soon as possible, or at least handcuffed like IBM and AT&T were when they were found to be manopolies. Of course, the fact that MS-election paid off well and MS-president will make sure that nothing happens to them will mean that that's just a pipe dream :(

    alan, not a nut
  • William Gibson's Neuromancer. Plug in Microsofts...
  • "The story makes an interesting point about how the XBox's true purpose is to pave the way for Microsoft as a home entertainment brand."

    What about WebTV? DTV? Ultimate TV? The hundred or so children's titles? The Microsoft-published games? (Like Age of Empires?)

    I'm not keen on Microsoft creating a server for my living room (I'd rather have a Linux or FreeBSD server in the basement, Windows and Mac clients throughout the home wirelessly, like I have now). But the idea of having a server in every home, regardless of maker, is a good idea.

  • I believe I tried to tell this to everyone as late as november last year in an article I wrote at Game Zero [gamezero.com].

    Specifically:
    "The bottom line here is simple. Microsoft wants to increase its profits, and make more money for its shareholders. The X-Box is the next step in their efforts. In order for all of this to work though, the X-Box has to be successful. In fact, not only successful, it has to become a "standard" in the market. Microsoft will be making their money first off of gaming software sales, then internet subscriptions, and then application subscriptions. The end goal being that you will hopefully use the X-Box as your videogame machine, cable TV box (akin to WebTV), family computer, and more. Don't be surprised when DVD functionality gets added along with possible TV buffering (akin to Tivo) features. I also wouldn't be surprised to see companies like AOL/Time Warner start offering X-Boxes at a steep discount to their cable customers as a "cable plus" system."

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