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Handhelds Hardware

Sony Clie Officially For Sale (In English) 78

Posted by timothy from the hi-res- dept.
Red Mercury writes: "Sony has just announced their much anticipated high resolution (320x320) Palm OS-based PEG-N710 Clie Handheld. You can read their press release, and check out Red Mercury's experience with a pre-production unit here." And if you'd like to do more than look, lazylion says: "While everyone was busy yesterday oggling Apple's new low cost sub-notebook, Sony quietly began accepting pre-orders for the US English version of their fabulous Palm-alike, the Clie PEG-N700c. This is the one with the jog dial, MP3 player, memory stick & 320 x 320 px display. Cool! They even match. I'll take one of each!"
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Sony Clie Officially For Sale (In English) More

Sony Clie Officially For Sale (In English)

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  • Re:Hmm... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Also, the markets for the two don't really converge. Most PDAs are used by executives, who for the most part have no intrest in Mp3s, and thus aren't willing to pay the extrea $$$.

    You obviously haven't hung out with the rich university set very much. Those are the ones who are always receiving cell phone calls in class, have the latest PDA or "cool" digital device, and drive expensive cars their parents bought them.

    Hell, I'm not rich, but I would love to have a combination PDA/MP3 player/cell phone with wireless email, web browsing, SSH, X, and GPS, (and a storage technology that doesn't have bullsh*t MagicGate copyright protection at extra cost--the last thing I need is for my $900 mega-PDA to stop playing all my MP3s because I accidentally installed the SDMI II update). If I had all that, and the airtime/data fees were reasonable, I don't know if I'd even use my computer any more. I'd probably be willing to trade a kidney for such a contraption...

  • 20 years ago he would have been right (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    A typewriter made a better typewriter than a computer, and calculators were better calculators. Higher portability, and almost certainly a low cost for the devices combined than for a computer. Convergence can be good, but it's often a question of where(when?) on the timeline you are. I for one think that the current VisorPhone technology is not good enough to release a VisorPhone-style device. I wouldn't want to bring a PDA jogging, or the added bulk of an MP3 player in my breast pocket on business occasions. I want all this and more in a device that I could store in my wallet in a credit-card slot, but that's not happening yet
  • According to Sony [sonystyle.com], they're $500, though. I thought $250 for the Visor Deluxe was steep...

    - A.P.

    --
    Forget Napster. Why not really break the law?

  • I imagine 20 years ago you would proclaim, "Computer? If I want a typewriter, I'll get a typewriter and if I want a calculator, I'll get a calculator, and if I want a game console, I'll buy a Pong machine or a Pinball machine, and if..."
    If I want floor polish I'll buy floor polish. If I want a dessert topping...
  • I was thinking more in terms of having a little mini-PC with filesystems and everything. Something with all the abilities of my laptop, but maybe with not as much "punch" or resources. Then I could finish my Java projects with Xemacs and test my perl against my PDApache ;-)

    Silly, I know, but a man can dream :-)

  • $500 for 320x320 and MP3 playing built in. Man, that is mighty sweet!

    I'm still going to resist. If they are this good now, I can't be more than a year from having a PDA I can actually code on. Then I'll just need a teeny little keyboard that I type on with pins to go with it ;-)

  • For starters, it has a reflective screen so (unlike my palm)

    What the hell are you talking about? The palm screen is transflective* which means that the backlight transmits through the back (sides) of the screen but daylight reflects off the back reflector just like your watch or calculator.

    I don't know about you but my Palm screen looks best in bright sunlight.

    * - Unless you're using a IIIc, in which case all bets are off. I'm not sure of the IIIc screen technology but hey're fugly, even with the backlight in a dark room. Reminds me of the old colour CGA screens, all "sparkly" and stuff.

  • I'm not sure if Unix on PDAs is relevant yet. In a couple of years, when we can fit high res, lots of memory and a fast CPU inside a small form factor, Linux as core may look more appealing (and PalmOS will need to adapt).

    Currently, PDAs don't do advanced things like multimedia very well, so there are some that advocate buying specialised devices and using PDAs solely for taking notes, keeping contacts and the like.

    Fine, but just like with regular computers, I don't think we'll ever think of them as completely satisfactory. At least not until they do things like understand what we say to them, project and record graphics and sound with holodeck quality around us and allow instant communications with anyone, while becoming much much less intrusive to wear.

    I'm just glad that there are companies other than Palm Inc developing these things too. Their current M?? machines don't offer much that'd make me want to get rid of my IIIx, but the screen on this Clie looks like it could enhance real tasks that we use Palm sized machines for these days, like Internet access, data entry, games, simple multimedia tasks etc. With 320x320 it's even better than the quite cool PocketPCs.. but why 8-bit color only?
  • Hey, you can code right now... get a $199 Palm m105, a $100 Palm Portable Keyboard (the one that folds up), then get Quartus Forth or Pocket C.
  • While there is no official Mac support, you can sync with a Macintosh using IR, or you can get the Mac connection kit from Mark/Space.
  • There was a color version of the original Clie that was released in Japan but not the US. It has a reflective screen. I managed to get a look at it at PalmSource in December, and man was it ugly. It needed very bright light overhead to see anything.

    It is interesting to note that Sony wasn't showing this off at their booth. It was another booth where another company was showing their software on the device.

  • Most PDAs are used by executives, who for the most part have no intrest in Mp3s, and thus aren't willing to pay the extrea $$$.

    ...which neglects that there are a lot of execs that aren't stodgy 50-somethings. Most young execs (and, well, anyone with a well-paying job) will probably go for the elegant look of the device and the "ooh-ahh" factor of any good geek toy.

    Then again, for that price, you could just by an iPAQ.

  • OS Version (Score:4)

    by James Ray Kenney ( 9036 ) <jrkenney AT swbell DOT net> on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @06:53AM (#251005) Homepage
    Their website says that it comes with OS version 3.5
    What is with that? The main reason for V4.0(If I have heard correctly,) is to support removable memory in a standard way.
    Does anyone know if they are going to upgrade?
    James

  • Re:HandEra is a less expensive alternative... (Score:3)

    by killbill ( 10058 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @08:20AM (#251006) Homepage
    I was waiting for somebody to bring this up... Most importantly, with AutoCf (free from HandEra) you can set things up so that applications appear to run directly from compact flash (they actually swap, but do so with the granularity of a record (512 bytes I think)) so long as the application writer followed the basic rules suggested for Palm OS developers.

    Such a critter for Sony is starting to show up in beta (and handspring has flirted with the idea), but HandEra (formerly TRG) is the only one that has really delivered. Plus I would much rather have compact flash expansion then some sort of mickey mouse memory stick that offers far less for much more.

    The HandEra 330 also manages to pack either 4 AAA (think NiMh rechargables or Duracell Ultras) or a lithium ion battery pack internal to the normal Palm III form factor, as well as an integrated voice recorder application (that can go to either compact flash or MMC). It has a souped up dragonball CPU as well, for one of the fastest palms around.

    What is really interesting to me is that a small group of hackers from Des Moines can consistently kick the butt of huge conglemerates such as the likes of Palm and Sony in terms of real world device functionality. I thought that era of computing technology had ended... it's nice to see it can still be done.

    Bill
  • better resolution is nice, but many apps depend on the origional palm screen specs, how many apps will render wrong or wierd because of this?

  • Hundreds? (Score:4)

    by Tyrell Hawthorne ( 13562 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @06:22AM (#251008) Homepage
    Plus it's fully compatible with hundreds of add-on applications available for download.


    Is it just me who worries about that statement? Considering that there are many thousands of applications for the Palm OS (most of which should work on the newer OSs), something's strange. Sony should have a reason to write a much lower figure (you don't do that willingly unless you have a good reason). Might it have something to do with the fact that it's a hi-res display?

  • <BLOCKQUOTE> 1/4th the memory (1/8th of the new version) of the iPaq for the same price</blockquote><br><br>
    Look, the memory requirements for PalmOS and PocketPC are different enough that 8 MB is very much comparable to 32 MB in terms of basic functionality.

    I also hate the stupid memory stick nonsense, but the screen on the device is supposed to be one of the best in the industry- driven by a dedicated video chip.

    If you want that, you gotta pay!
  • I believe the IIIc (and the m505) is what he was referring to. All color Palms thus far have used active-matrix displays, so they look like crap outside.

    This one, however uses a reflective (or transflective as you called it) display, similar to the Game Boy Color, which will be wonderful for use anywhere.

    -Julius X
  • Every app should work fine on that large display. I know that the new Handera with a 320x320 uses pixel doubling if the app doesn't explicitely take advantage of the larger res, and will even do font replacement to use a better font instead of just doubling the pixels in the font.

    That was my first though when the Handera came out; how would they handle the old apps that are only designed for 160x160?
  • The HandEra 330 first tries to re-render the application on the fly with higher-resolution fonts. If that doesn't work, it can use some wacky 1.5x pixel "doubling" routine that will probably look awful. If THAT doesn't work, it can run the application "letterboxed". From what I understand, all three alternatives are selectable and configurable by the user.
  • IIRC, more shades of gray can be used for a better display of text: anti-aliasing. Would be interesting to know why they didn't implement it (maybe they did, I don't know, never had a Palm).
  • Everyone check out this [sonystyle.com]

    Does this thing dispence heroin or some other kind of addictive substance? Look at the expression on that guy's face!
  • poor color depth. its got a lot of pocketpc-esque features, like the mp3 player, but the color depth is only 256 colors. granted the resolutions kicks serious butt and is what is needed, but where is the beautiful 16-bit of my visor prism?
  • One of coolest things about the Clie was that it was way different looking than the rest of the palm devices out there. Less clunky, more elegant. Not to mention the mem stick & jog dial.

    The color one just doesn't have that oomph. I think Handera actually looks cooler.

    Lest you dis' my aesthetic bent, let's not forget these things become an accessory. You wouldn't buy a watch that looked like shit would you? Oh yeah, some of us on /. would rather code than make aesthetic decisions. Let's hope their apps are console based.

    Ever see one of those olive green timexes? Supposed to be some kind of "military" watch. Ewww!
  • If I take my cellphone, my mp3 player, my canon elph digital camera and my Palm Vx and stack them up, they don't make a very big pile. Convergence is coming in a big way. There's already cellphone/palm, cellphone/MP3-player and Fuji is making a camera/MP3-player. Who know's what's next...

    My point is that Linux may be a bit much for a Palm-clone right now, but in the NEAR future when the computer that sits in your hand has a lot more power and is doing a lot more things, it'll need a robust OS to deal with it all and Unix is it.

    Furthermore, I don't think Palm has what it takes to upgrade the PalmOS to do what Linux or WindowsCE can do. Even though I prefer a Palm right now, they've already lost the race to the future in my (humble) opinion.

  • Who needs 18Mb to run UNIX?

    Ask Dennis Ritchie: his first UNIX ran in like 16K ?
    Or how somebody at Bell Labs wrote a spell checker that ran in 32K?

    What has UNIX became nowadays...
  • Palm Desktop from Palm will work with this.
    --
  • ..at least if the past performance of Palm OS PDAs' processors is any indication, the Clie's CPU doesn't have what it takes to decode high-bitrate MP3 or Ogg audio.

    And if we extrapolate from there, it seems obvious that Sony has included a dedicated MPEG audio decoder chip on the Clie. Your odds of hacking that to play Ogg audio are, as they say, slim to none.

  • Praying for Europeans (Score:4)

    by joq ( 63625 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @07:32AM (#251021) Homepage Journal
    Now all we have to do is pray the good old chaps at MI5 and MI6 agencies create a self destructing Palm, [slashdot.org] to give their agents.

    word [antioffline.com]


  • This makes me wonder if OGG files (which ar technically just data) could be played on a Clie?

    Am I the only one that read this post and wondered what programs OOG THE CAVEMAN has designed for the palm platform???

    OK, that's a sign that I need to cut down on my /. reading for a while.

  • Hmm...

    It looks like you didn't read the articles linked...

    Go ahead and look, ye shall find answers.

  • You can import music from as many CDs as you want, and (again, unlike the case with the other guys) there are no pre-set limits: iTunes lets you encode as many songs as you want at the quality you want.

    Is this a dig at Microsoft and the limits they may impose in XP?

  • although theoretically, you can implement anti-aliasing given enough shades of gray, it wouldn't help unless you had a decent amount of resolution to work with. Anti-aliasing text is basically blending in some gray pixels at the edges of characters, and you can't effectively do this with (relatively) large pixels.
  • Red Mecury's <a href="http://www.red-mercury.com/N710Ctech.html"&g t;experiences</a> with testing backwards compatability seem to show that they don't think there will be much of a problem with older applications. Out of the box, the Clie will use "Compatability Mode" to double the pixels of older low-res applications, meaning it will display exactly as it did on an older 160x160 Palm. There's even a third-party utility called "Power HiRes" that will allow 160x160 apps to display in a higher resolution. Hardly conclusive proof that there will be no problems, but until more reviewers get their hands on demo models, it's really all we have to go by.
  • Ugh, guess that's what Preview Mode is for.

    http://www.red-mercury.com/N710Ctech.html [red-mercury.com]

  • """
    Also, the markets for the two don't really converge. Most PDAs are used by executives, who for the most part have no intrest in Mp3s, and thus aren't willing to pay the extrea $$$.
    """

    Funny, practically everybody in my graduate program has a PDA, as do a huge number of the technogeeks I know.

    You're right though, the market of students and technogeeks and the market of people interested in MP3s don't converge at all.

    Oh, wait...

    -DA
  • They say that "We want to become the Microsoft of handheld devices" but then what about this [http].

    Doesn't claiming that you want to be the leader in a market, by 'becoming' one of your competitors in that same market imply that you have already lost?

  • For those who think Sony's 500 dollar pricetag is a bit steep you might want to consider the HandEra 330 from http://www.handera.com/ [handera.com] . The 330 has a 320x240 screen, a virtual grafiti area (you can pop it up on demand), access to CF, MMC and SD cards. And the price tag is in the 350 dollar range.




    perl -le '$_="6110>374086;2064208213:90<307;55";tr[0- >][ LEOR!AUBGNSTY];print'

  • Re:Hmm... (Score:3)

    by Amokscience ( 86909 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @09:35AM (#251031) Homepage
    Convergence will only come when the form fits the function or is so small as to be unnoticable. Most importanly for portables when storage and battery life are a magnitude better than the current state.

    I find your argument somewaht weakened by using 20 years as a comparison. I was using a typewriter 10 years ago and really don't think is was affordable to switch to computers/printers until the mid 90s. They already had Ataris 20 years ago. People still use calculators al the time (I do). 5-10 years is an eternity in computing technologies. You'll have plenty of time (as a consumer) to see these coming and adjust to them. It's not something you have to get ready for.

  • Doctored photos (Score:4)

    by Chairboy ( 88841 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @07:22AM (#251033) Homepage
    Does anyone else find it strange that the pictures of the 700c are all doctored to look better? It's obvious that all the photos of the color Clie have been modified to show it as having the same type of vivid colors and brightness that the Visor Prism and Palm IIIc have, but that's just not accurate.

    Check it for yourself:
    http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/clie/

    The 700c uses the same type of passive color display technology that the color gameboy uses. It's not active matrix, it's not self illuminating, it's very different from what they show on the website.

    When you have an advertisement, simulated pictures are almost expected. But on the Sony website, they have a whole gallery where you can check out the 700c from each angle, and each one has the same type of manipulated photo.

    This is just bad chess.
  • Well I agree that PalmOS has it now, but I don't really see those who are poo pooing the Agenda now as having much of a point in the near future. Point being, Handspring, Sony, TRG and anyone else producing PalmOS devices all pay Palm. This is why Palm is slower on the features. Why take the risk when others will? Then you kill them after they have the bugs worked out. Case in point, the Palm m505. It's got color, expansion card and alot of what Handspring and some of what Sony had first, but maybe possibly done better.

    The downside, I am afraid, for Handspring (not so much Sony...if the Clie flops no big deal to them) is that they have to PAY Palm to use the OS. Linux doesn't have the problem. Every other handheld OS has this problem, but Linux (well, maybe NetBSD too but let's not get into that battle again...). While the Agenda may not be very good now (at least they delayed it so they can debug it some more), with the devlopers who already have one writing stuff, it can only get better. And, so, the Agenda folks may not have everything figured out, at least someone out their can look at their code and see what's up with it. How may of you can do this with Palm? Yeah I thought so!

    I know I am preaching to the chior but I really hate people knocking on what I consider is an unfinished product. To the whiners who bought one and are bitching.....they say right on the web page to not expect to do any important work on the things just yet and I agree. It's a developer handheld that may be able to do interesting things a lot sooner then Palm ever did. Once a better version of the handheld comes out, then you can lay into them (and yourself if your a programmer on the project). Besides, as we all know, people will go through some pretty serious hoops to get something for nothing (how many of us clog our cable modems downloading 650 meg iso's??). As Microsoft proved, it's pretty hard to compete with something available for free.

    I imagine that with a Agenda and a wireless ethernet card, you could, theoretically, use one as a remote for your Linux based MP3 Jukebox, you can have the wireless do all of the updating for you (cron jobs run every 5 minutes when in range, and definitely at night). The Agenda is a platform that still developing. It will be quite exciting when these things are given more power.

    After looking at the pages referring to the new Sony, I think it's a good looking handheld. I don't like that goofy stick thing hanging on the headphones. Looks like it just might pull the head phones off as you are running for a bus when downtown. I am afraid the bar has been raised a bit higher for Agenda, but eventually someone will bring out a Linux based PDA that will kill the proprietary ones...it's just a matter of time.

  • Very good points. Even though the Pocket PC comes with Pocket Word and Excel, you're right, I never use those, and doubt many people do. Even though Pocket PC is marketed as a 'PC in your hand', I think most people get them primarily for 2 reasons: 1) the color screen. Yes, color is not neccesery to track your appointments and contacts, but you have to admit it's nice. Personally, I stopped using non-color displays when I dumped my green-on-black monitor back in 88. 2) The geek factor. First let me say Palm OS has some really cool software, and there's tons of it. Which is what Pocket PC lacks, variety of software. BUT, there's just something about playing a 3D shooter like Metalion, or running through you're favorite Quake levels on a device roughly the size of a couple decks of cards. And the geek factor is increased by the video playback capabilities, and the ability to 'skin' the OS with software like Dashboard and WIS bar.

    I don't think the new Clie shows a intention to evolve PalmOS in to Pocket PC, but rather shows how flexible it can be, and appeal to more people. Now PalmOS can offer PDA for anyone, from the low end "organizer-only" PDA like the Palm m100, to the executive m505 or Visor Edge, to (now) the multimedia rich Clie. This is something that Pocket PC simply cannot offer.

  • >>Most PDAs are used by executives, who for the most part have no intrest in Mp3s, and thus aren't willing to pay the extrea $$$.

    I'd have to disagree with this for several reasons. First, handheld devices are quite popular with techno-geeks like sysadmins and programmers. I'm a sysadmin in a team of about 20, 12 of us have Pocket PC devices, and 3 other have Palm OS devices. I decided on Pocket PC over Palm OS because of it's color capabilities, MP3 playback, and mulitmedia functions. I think that Sony is trying to appeal to these consumers with this new Clie, not the executives. Which is exactly what Palm OS needed, something to attract the younger audience away from Pocket PC. I would have loved to buy a Palm OS handheld over a Pocket PC, but none of them offered, at the time, what I wanted. I'm getting one of these as soon as I can, and I would bet that many more existing Pocket PC people will start jumping ship as well.

    And as far as executives not willing to shell out cash for PDAs, I seem to recall iPaqs selling for upwards of a grand on eBay only a few months ago.

  • As long as the Agenda is a good $50 less than a handspring, it has a market. Maybe not for consumers, but for custom PDA solutions. When I was discussing the options between Handsprings, Palms and WinCE to the administration of a hospital we were doing a palm solution for, they went with Handspring. Sure it's not as featureful as the WinCEs and doesn't have the Palm brand, but it was cheaper. A lot cheaper than the CEs and somehwat cheaper than the Palms. When you are fitting 500 people with these things, $50 adds up.
  • My mistake -- what makes a computer a subnotebook? I thought < 4 lbs would do it...?
  • Yes, but will there be custom functionality in the Windows software that won't work with the standard Palm Desktop for the Mac? Perhaps multimedia capabilities?

  • No Apple Support? (Score:3)

    by cloudscout ( 104011 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @06:38AM (#251041) Homepage
    It doesn't look like Sony will be supporting the Mac platform with this model. I'm sure you'll be able to use regular Palm Desktop software for normal synching but I bet you won't be able to use the advanced multimedia functions.

    Here's what their website lists for system requirements:

    • System Requirements
    • Windows 98, 98SE, ME, or 2000 Professional
    • Pentium 233MHz with MMX technology or faster (Pentium II 400MHz recommended)
    • 64MB RAM or more
    • 128MB available hard disk space6
    • Display with 800 x 600 dots or higher, High Color or better
    • USB port
    • CD-ROM drive

    No mention of Macs at all.

  • Don't Underestimate Resolution (Score:4)

    by Trinition ( 114758 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @06:47AM (#251042) Homepage
    For a couple of years now, I've been periodically cursing my PalmOS PDAs' resolutions -- 160x160. Every vendor was pushing more gray-scale shades, or even color. That was great and all, but I took issue with the crappy resolution. Text was horrible to read.

    Many people cited the fact that all programs and the OS itself wewre hard-wred for the 160x160 resolution. It seemed intuitively obvious to me that you could just double the resolution and use 2x2 pseudo-pixels for backwards compatability.

    Now that I've seen comparative screenshots [spug.org], I'm glad I stood where I stood. The difference *IS* dramatic! My hat is off to Sony and I hope others follow.

    Now, if only they can do something about that price tag...

  • I imagine 20 years ago you would proclaim, "Computer? If I want a typewriter, I'll get a typewriter and if I want a calculator, I'll get a calculator, and if I want a game console, I'll buy a Pong machine or a Pinball machine, and if..."
    If I want floor polish I'll buy floor polish. If I want a dessert topping...
    Clear, persuasive argument. I see my mistake and renounce my position.
  • I find your argument somewaht weakened by using 20 years as a comparison.

    You have a point, however, 20 years ago I was using a PC for those functions - an Apple ][+ with an Epson MX-80 printer. Beyond those functions, I was able to find further use beyond the sum of the parts. And I had a technical edge over many of my peers just because of my familiarity with the converged items. Yes, I was an early adopter, but being such gave me advantages I enjoy today. That's why I referred to forward thinking in my initial response.

  • Re:Hmm... (Score:5)

    by rjamestaylor ( 117847 ) <rjamestaylor@gmail.com> on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @07:03AM (#251045) Journal
    If I want a Palm, I'll buy a Palm, if I want an Mp3 player, I'll buy an Mp3 Player.
    Now that's advanced thinking. I imagine 20 years ago you would proclaim, "Computer? If I want a typewriter, I'll get a typewriter and if I want a calculator, I'll get a calculator, and if I want a game console, I'll buy a Pong machine or a Pinball machine, and if...". Convergence - it's not just for breakfast anymore...
  • Fuzzy Logic error, make that 24mb of ram, but my point is the same. my palm IIIxe has 8 ;)

  • What does this mean for Agenda (Score:4)

    by jallen02 ( 124384 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @06:20AM (#251047) Homepage Journal
    Well, I like Linux as much as most people here. But I can see this only dimming the Agenda's chances for survival. Sure its another hand held computing device in a rapidly flooding market.. right-o.

    But even Sony was smart enough to license PalmOS from Palm. Palm obviously has something very good. Writing Palm Apps is easy. They have the software, they have the fanbase. Best to tap into that no? Add your new whiz bang features, pay palm your royalties, get a lil piece of the market. Palm is still king. Prolly will be for a good while.

    Agenda is a good idea, but I just think that for once Unix, even if you strip out all the shit and use cramfs and just shove and shove and shove strip this, use a compact standard C library etc, is just not going to be competitive here. They would need to release a really awesome SDK for this thing to compete with Palm. They need some really killer apps and more than just 18 MB of ram (16 of that being flash) to compete. FLTK is sweet and very nice GUI kit especially if you like C++, but it just cant compete. I find PalmApps just as easy to write as FLTK if not a little easier.

    Anyhow this really isnt off topic since Its real relevant to how the market is going and the fact that Sony is playing Palm's game shows a lot.

    Jeremy

  • I would like to point out that the screen shots looked rather magnified. That means that the spaces between pixels in the handspring picture are not really as large as they appear. When you compare the two models side by side in real life, the difference may not be as apparent.


    This message was encrypted with rot-26 cryptography.

  • From the Sony website, they explicitly say that the Clie will *play* both MP3 and ATRAC, but the Memory Stick will only support ATRAC. However, later they say that the Memory Stick will allow users to pile on more games, applications, and data. This makes me wonder if OGG [vorbis.com] files (which ar technically just data) could be played on a Clie? could a OGG payer app be written which takes advantage of the player hardware (including the headphone-based remote) ? What are teh hacking opportunities here?

    it would be irony indeed if we could play OGGs on a Sony product :)

  • Dude... that's ridiculous... I'm a programmer (25), and I need a palm to keep my appointments and everything straight. Otherwise, I'd get fired fast, cause I lose track of time soooo easily while coding. Not to mention the stuff I have to do for my wife... ;)

    I listen to mostly house/trance, so it would be sweet to have all that in one package. Not to mention that there are 128 meg memory sticks now... ;)

  • First, if you have a whole library of mp3s, just copy some over to another directory, convert, and put 'em on a memory stick. no problem.

    Second, I think that everyone has to begin to realize that free formats such as mp3 are NOT going to survive in hardware players indefinitely. MDs used ATRAC, and I've been using mine for 6+ years... and it's been great. You just have to weigh the trade-off between cool gear and a little format conversion -- in the end, most people will take the cool gear. It's just a fact of life..........

  • Does anybody have any information on wireless networking (Bluetooth, 802.11b, etc.) options for this device? All the options I know of are for Visors only, but this would be a pretty sweet little puppy to use as a mobile terminal...
  • Check out the Red Mercury's review of the Color Clie. They explain in detail how the Color Clie will run low-res, high-res, or Power HiRes. Power HiRes apparently tries to convert old applications to the new resolution through software interpolation. Check out the URL below for more details.

    http://www.red-mercury.com/N710Ctech.html
  • I was just checking out Red Merc's review and took a look at some of the screenshots they have. About the most impressive thing about this is its wonderful screen and video capability.

    For starters, it has a reflective screen so (unlike my palm) when I take it outside I can actually use it instead of seeing a nice black rectangle.

    The review points out how the video play is--quite nice... also the screen refresh rate, etc... because this writes directly to the video memory in order to erase the screen, you will see a MUCH better frame rate than its palm counterpart.

    Now if I had only seen this just a tad sooner I wouldnt have to think about taking back a palm.. :P
  • Hmmm. And if I want to carry fewer little, easily lost or damaged devices, I'd buy the new Sony. The stick memory looks like the single best reason to get this device, imho. I can't wait to see a movie player for this device, and an appropriately compressed copy of a film from DVD. The possibility to have a feature film on a device like this is something I would spend the money on, just because it's there. And imagine the possibilities for staying awake during dull meetings!

    On that note, the very first person to ever demonstrate the mp3 format for me was an executive-- not some 20something dotcom hipster, a parent of teenagers with a corner office in a skyscraper.

  • Really MP3? (Score:3)

    by sulli ( 195030 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @08:00AM (#251056) Journal
    Another post here talked about how Memory Stick only supports Sony's user-hostile, proprietary, copy-protected, and generally useless ATRAC format - and the infamous Music Clip's PC software deletes your MP3s when converting to ATRAC. Yet the website talks of MP3 support.

    Does anyone have experience using actual, unfucked-up MP3s on this thing? I for one won't touch a Sony unless/until I am convinced that it won't eat my collection.

  • They mention something like 15 days usage and 3 hours with mp3 and screen on. Well that is pretty low. (I do know that it is still well done in terms of engineering.) I just wonder what happenes to my data if the power is out after 15 days. A friend changed back from using rechargables in his palm, because every time he batteries were empty and he didn't switch on for 3 days he lost his installation (and data.) I hope Sony did something about that.

  • The pictures also point something else out -- just how less reflective to outside sources the screen of the Sony is vs. the screen of the Prism. That's something I noticed right away when I bought the Prism. No glare.

    Okay, it's hard to see in sunlight. But that just points out that the Sony will be more difficult to read in darkness. Someone said it uses the same type screen as the Gameboy Color. My son has one of those and I *much* prefer my Prism's screen to the Gameboy screen. In 95% of the places I've seen both, the Prism's screen is *much* easier to read than the Gameboy's.

    Maybe Sony has corrected that -- I haven't actually seen the unit yet. But unless they did, I'll stick to the Prism, or maybe buy the Palm 505 when I get a chance to look at it.

    Sean.

  • d00derz!!! Now we can get 320x240 without giving M$ a penny! d00d, I'm s0000 glad we can get a reflective screen without supporting Micro$oft. Bill Gates $uxorz!
  • Sony, as well as many other vendors (including Handspring, which is composed of disgruntled Palm Computing hardware engineers)have in recent months, proven that Palm Computing's business model will in fact work.

    IN a press release around the time of their spinn off prom 3Com, Palm said 'We want to become the Mocrosoft oh handheld devices'. Now that may have a vary different meaninf for this audience, than what they intended, however, they seem to be well on their way to achieving their goal of being THE OS vendor for handheld devices. There was some debate when they made this announcement as to weather they could viably continue to build and support the palm line of handheld hardware devices as well as license their OS to 3rd party vendors. So far, the popularity of their os is not in question. Weather they can derive enough revenue from licensing the OS alone, is.

    The introduction of this new high quality Sony device, as well as the offerings from other hardware vendors are now driving an increased rate of adoption of the OS. Palm is well on it's way to a successful and profitable future.

    --CTH

    --

  • Re:Really MP3? (Score:3)

    by NonSequor ( 230139 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @10:25AM (#251061) Journal
    Well, assuming that you all of your MP3s are legal you should be able to rip them from the original CDs again. *Evil laugh*

    Er... Well, y'know. You can't make an omelette without um... destroying a forest. Or something.

  • > Convergence - it's not just for breakfast anymore...

    QMS 2001 Knowledge System, an ultimate convergence device, bombed seven years ago.

    It was cheaper to buy printer and scanner separately. And if one of them breaks, the other one still works.

    Qualcomm PDQ wasn't a hit. Same thing.

    PC was not a convergence device - it took off because of new functionality (VisiCalc, Turbo Pascal). Convergence came on-board later, when the price for add-on became lower than the standalone device.

    MP3 in Clie is nice, but expansion port and screen resolution are the real thing I would pay my money for.
  • Isn't Sony one of the companies that is pushing for copy prevention hardrives? Last I checked they own a large recording company AND they have a piece of the movie industry. In other words they control a large chunk of both the MPAA and RIAA.

    They have a huge stake in preventing DVDs from being copied, and the current music monopoly suites them just fine. Every single non-cd audio device they have come out with incorperates some kind of copy-prevention.

    It's quite surprising how short the memory of this group can be.
    maskirovka

  • Shameless (Score:3)

    by Tsar cr0bar ( 310803 ) on Wednesday May 02, 2001 @07:24AM (#251064) Homepage
    I always thought that writing in to /. to pimp your own website was frowned upon, but I guess not:

    Red Mercury [red-mercury.com] writes: "Sony has just announced their much anticipated high resolution (320x320) Palm OS-based PEG-N710 Clie Handheld. You can read their press release, and check out Red Mercury's [red-mercury.com] experience with a pre-production unit here [red-mercury.com]."

    A total of three links to his site in the first three lines. Not bad for a shameless self-promotion :-)

  • Yes. Apps will not automatically take advantage of the hires display; the authors would have to update them if they wanted to. The same goes for support for the jog dial and the memory stick. I'm guessing the "hundreds" refers to the current apps that already take advantage of the Clie's jog dial and perhaps the Clie's (and others') display.
  • One of the reasons that Palm was so sucessful early on is that they weren't trying to market their handhelds as mini-PC's that you could take with you and do all your work away from your desk. They were marketed as an extension of your desktop so you could take information with you on the road. One reason I was never interested in a PocketPC is that
    • Battery life sucks if you use it a lot
    • If I wanted to do real work on the road, I'd use a laptop. For what a PocketPC costs, the added power you get with a laptop is worth the extra expense.
    • Color was really unnecessary, except for games
    True, some features, like MP3 capability are nice so you don't have to take multiple devices with you, even color is OK, though unnecessary if you strictly want a portable rolodex, but I don't want to see the Palm platform evolve towards the PocketPC platform.
  • If I want a Palm, I'll buy a Palm, if I want an Mp3 player, I'll buy an Mp3 Player.

    Also, the markets for the two don't really converge. Most PDAs are used by executives, who for the most part have no intrest in Mp3s, and thus aren't willing to pay the extrea $$$.
  • 1/4th the memory (1/8th of the new version) of the iPaq for the same price, and I see Sony isn't brave enough to say how underpowered their CPU is. Memory sticks also cost a lot more than cf memory. :( It's basically a $300 machine with a $200 brand name. Hey, it's a Playstation 2! Oh wait, the Playstation 2 doesn't take memory sticks. Never mind.
  • Why the heck would you want a device that uses Memory Stick® is beyond me! It is one of the most restricted and propriatery pieces of hardware out there. I bet that soon you want be able to even store MP3s on it. Not only that but you'll be paying a premium for it.

    Stick to devices which use standard interfaces. i.e. PCMCIAII.
  • I have had my handspring visor deluxe since it first came out. I decided to go for the visor over the palm III, because 1) It cost less and had more memory 2) It had all the springboard possibilities (still waiting on that 6 in 1 modem/voice recorder/alarm/memory/etc. from Innogear, but why split hairs). I just can't see the justification for dishing out the $500 for a color screen. I suppose that the "future" 128 mb memory stick would be nice, but as of right now the only use i would have for a color screen is to play games. Until they are able to provide real video or perhaps television *hint*hint* to the new color pda's, then I will just plug along with my monocrome visor for another year or two when the price goes down to a reasonable level.

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