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Hardware

A Look At The Panasonic ShowStopper 109

Posted by Hemos from the tivo-gets-some-competition dept.
MuthaPussBucket writes: "Luckily for consumers, prices of hard drives continue to come down and now more manufacturers such as Sony and Panasonic have licensed the TiVO and ReplayTV technology to use in their own products. SE takes a look at the Panasonic ShowStopper Hard Disk Recorder Model PV-HS2000. This one looks as though it's one of the pricer ones but it's also one of the better models."
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A Look At The Panasonic ShowStopper More

A Look At The Panasonic ShowStopper

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  • Beware - UK broadcast standards are different from almost everywhere else in the world, (apart from Ireland and South Africa,I think).
    There are about a dozen version of PAL.
    OK, the UK is a big market, but it's smaller then the PAL B/G market (Germany) or the various others.

    Anyone want to buy a UK TV, Video and TV card...

    Phil

  • More to the point (Score:3)

    by Otto ( 17870 ) on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @03:18AM (#732736) Homepage Journal
    ReplayTV won't let you watch TV while it makes its call. A bit stupid really.. Tivo can make its call anytime and you can watch TV while it does it. Totally background.

    ---

  • Re:TV contract is BS (Score:3)

    by trcooper ( 18794 ) <coop.redout@org> on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @04:21AM (#732737) Homepage
    You know, when I was a kid my parents did a weird thing. When something that they didn't find appropriate, or they found concerning was exposed to their children they would talk to us about it. They didn't try to hide it from us or pretend it didn't exist, they confonted us about it and explained their concerns.

    Kids are going to be exposed to content that a lot of people don't approve of whether or not it is on at (7 or 9)||(8 or 10). Whether they hear about the R-rated movies from their friends at school, or see them on TV it really doesn't matter.

    What does matter is the kids understand why the content isn't appropriate for them. Tell them straight up that you don't want them to see that movie because there is too much violence in it, or the language is rude, or whatever. The broad generalizations that programs or movies are naughty doesn't provide the child enough information to understand why.

    I'm not directly shooting at your parenting techniques, because I don't know you, don't know your kids, obviously you know what's best. But, don't expect the world to change for you, or even remain in stasis. You have the right to censor anything your children see, but don't even try to censor what my kids see. They can watch anything they understand, and it's my job to make them understand it.

  • This unit does have a "record to VCR" option. If you like the show, you can keep it. You're stuck with VCR quality, but you can keep it without chewing up disk space. (You need the VCR, too, but most people already have one.)

  • If you want the product, you don't need an ad for it. Advertisement is about making you want a product you either a) did not know that it existed or b) don't need or did not want before.


    ------------------
  • Until, of course, the TiVo hackers figure out the Filesystem the TiVo uses
    And the compression algorithm, and hope that it doesn't require some other piece of on-baord hardware for a dependency. My guess is that there are certain pieces of hardware/chipsets that handle the comporession/decompression, which would make it VERY difficult to view a recording on any box other than the one it was recorded on, or at the very least, on a non-Tivo box. That's probably why Tivo hasn't sent legal letters to any of the public Tivo hacking pages, they're not worried.
  • The only reason TiVo was hacked so quickly was because of it's Linux OS. The fact that ReplayTV hasn't yet been hacked is because no one here on Slashdot is capable of doing it.

    [Throws down the gauntlet]

    Come on guys, are you up to the challenge? Can you hack a system that isn't Linux? Come on. I dare you to hacek it!
  • I already drink Brand-X carbonated cola drink. Do I need to see more "Drink Brand-X" Ads?

    Also imagine how empty our lives would be if we never saw another advert for a product that mysteriously requires wings?

    --

  • ...of these devices and have been using it for about a month and a half now. I love it overall, but there are a couple things I want to do that I dont think I can with this unit:

    1. While it's recording, you can only watch the show being recorded. You can't (for example) channel surf or watch another show until the one you're currently recording buffers up enough so that you can skip past the commercials. Can you watch something else with the TiVo while it's recording? I bought a video splitter and can switch video sources on my tv to watch "live" tv while the Replay is recording, but this is less than optimal.

    2. It appears to me that once you select a show to record every occurence of it only cares about the day and time of that show and ignores the title of that show from that point onward. The downside to this is that if the lineup changes you get some crap recorded that you never intended to. Does the TiVo pay more attention to the actual content of what it's recording?

  • I've been reading the specs for the all in wonder radeon and with the bundled software(windows only i think) it looks very functional. Anyone know if I could get by with a Duron and a 5400rpm drive for such a box?
  • You were told wrong. It does not run any variation of Windows.
  • The new DirecTivo service from DirecTV has built-in 5.1 channel digital audio. It is my understanding that in these new boxes, there is no chip to do MPEG encoding/decoding--it just writes the digital signal directly from the satellite feed (maybe there's some format conversion or something).

    This also means that there are no quality settings on the DirecTivo box: it's always "Best" quality, since the signal is always digital. The recording time is still 35 hours (I'm told). Sounds pretty cool. The downside is that you can't record cable or off-air TV into it as well, since there is no MPEG encoding capability.

    Check out Tivo's page on it [tivo.com].

  • I added space too, but I wouldn't call it amazingly easy. The newer units shipping have locked hard drives, so you need a computer running Linux and have to do a tricky and potentially hazardous cable swap if you want to back up the original hard drive (a good idea in case you screw up). Still, I now have a 127 hour unit, and that made it worthwhile. For anyone contemplating this, here's the FAQ regarding TiVo hacking: http://www.tivofaq.com/hack/faq.html
  • Some facts, some pure guessing. Guesses ain't facts, though, folks.

    "quite likely" that ReplayTV will offer an ad-free premium service? Based on what? I can't find a single statement from ReplayTV to support that.

    Weaselly? SEC blackout regs are the law, like it or not. Check out recent releases immediately following the blackout ending - especially MyReplayTV, and Release 3.0. Not too weaselly.

    'Cancelled' IPO? Nope - postponed. Check out the c|net story 8/21, which points out how bad the market was at that time, how low TiVo's stock was being valued, and the opportunity to make key alliance deals if ReplayTV weren't in registration. (As to the latter, check this morning's wire, Daily Variety, & Hollywood Reporter - not a bad alliance, for a start.)

    While we're talking about ReplayTV's business model - you missed that there's no monthly subscription fee, the only 60-hour box on the market now, the only partnership to build cable/DVR combo boxes, and that ReplayTV has the 30-second skip-ahead feature that TiVo chose to forego since it scared the networks (see NY Times 8/13).

    All facts.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The need for a phone connection has got to go. All it's doing is getting program guide info. Much of that information is available in TV signals, although not everywhere.
    • They're still using MPEG 2 compression on the video, and MPEG 1 on the audio.
    • Why Macrovision copy protection? This is just a temporary storage device. It doesn't even understand HDTV.
  • Some facts, some pure guessing. Guesses ain't facts, though, folks

    True, and I'll be the first to admit so. There's a lot of talk though, and smoke being generally located near to fire...

    Weaselly? SEC blackout regs are the law, like it or not.

    Yep, but the laws didn't tell them to announce their IPO as far in advance as they did. The question also remains as to what exactly the SEC does or does not prohibit during the blackout.

    you missed that there's no monthly subscription fee

    Yes, but I also didn't mention that it costs $200 more than TiVo. And am I misremembering or was there an issue with local access numbers for some subscribers?

    the only partnership to build cable/DVR combo boxes

    I don't mean to sound flip, but does anybody really want a cable combo box? I get the point of the Direct TV combo box (I have one) but I can't really see the point of doing it with cable.

    The bottom line remains the same: TiVo and Replay are two products that do (approximately) the same thing in very, very different manners. As a consumer you really need to decide which one best suits your needs, habits, preference, etc.

    --john

  • Re:I bought one... (Score:3)

    by RedX ( 71326 ) <redx@nospam.wideopenwest.com> on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @09:07AM (#732752)
    1. While it's recording, you can only watch the show being recorded. You can't (for example) channel surf or watch another show until the one you're currently recording buffers up enough so that you can skip past the commercials. Can you watch something else with the TiVo while it's recording? I bought a video splitter and can switch video sources on my tv to watch "live" tv while the Replay is recording, but this is less than optimal.

    With the TiVo, you are able to watch any of your recorded shows while another is recording. I thought this was also possible on the Replay, not true? If not, that's a major negative for Replay.

    2. It appears to me that once you select a show to record every occurence of it only cares about the day and time of that show and ignores the title of that show from that point onward. The downside to this is that if the lineup changes you get some crap recorded that you never intended to. Does the TiVo pay more attention to the actual content of what it's recording?

    Tivo has a feature called Season Pass where you can select, for example, Sopranos to record on your HBO channel. Anytime the Sopranos airs on that particular HBO channel, it will be recorded. An added feature will prevent the TiVo from recording the same episode twice (HBO typically repeats their shows many times during the week). To continue with my example, the Sopranos is currently not being aired (it's between seasons), but my Season Pass is still there and TiVo will start recording the Sopranos again once they start showing past seasons this fall.

  • Anyway, as the King of the World, I should know about these things. What am I missing? Why are people so against targeted advertising?

    Are people seeing the 'targeted commercial' stuff as another invasion of privacy?

    Dunno... I'd probably buy one of these things if it meant never having to sit through another bad homemade commercial for a used car lot.

    NecroPuppy
    ---
    Godot called. He said he'd be late.
  • It's currently going for $518.29 at Mercata (goes cheaper if more people place orders). Take the $100 Mercata new member bonus, and the $100 rebate ReplayTV/Panasonic is offering (see Panasonic's website), and that brings your final price in the $300 range...
  • I see all sorts of untargetted ads all day and I don't like them.

    I don't want to see ads for products I don't want. I want to see ads for products I _do_ want.
    _____
  • but it it possible to record shows without the use of the service?
    Yes,
    can I modify a TiVo to record the show using the builtin hardware and drop it to a plain file in mpeg or some other format?
    No.
  • Unless you add a HUGE hard drive, you can only store so much programming in the box. IMO, it's really intended to let you buffer your TV watching, not as a long-term archival of shows.
  • It has the ability to "save to VCR," which (by the sounds of the feature name and A/V connections described) allows you to take a show you've taped and record it on your VCR form the hard drive. Essentially, you can watch the show, and then decide if you want to add it to the permanent collection.

  • Locked drives are a hassle. But, using a new Western Digital diagnostic util you can unlock the drive without doing the cable swap. Hit avsforum for more info. I used it the other night.
  • You can call TiVo and opt out of their data collection. People always forget about the opt-out policies most of these companies have. And before someone jumps on me about trusting some company, my company does marketing data collection and believe me, we do EVERYTHING we can to make sure we follow our privacy policy or else we get in real trouble. I expect someone like TiVo to do the same.

    Good point. Companies are required to have opt out options. Now, they can make it difficult, but it is there. And no matter what they may imply, opting out does not void your warrenty or service agreement.

    And even if you didn't opt out, think how much fun you could have messing with the data... Turn the picture and sound down, and leave the box on the Cartoon channel for a long weekend. Or get the TV guide, some Lego Mindstorms, and program a robot to switch the TV over to every episode of Gunsmoke you can find, while you're at work... (What? You don't think the Nielson people aren't going to want in on this data?) The humor possibilties are endless...

    NecroPuppy
    ---
    Godot called. He said he'd be late.
  • This only applies if you are doing a backup of your A. I recommend that, but not everyone does it. If you don't do the backup it's very easy to add space.
  • TiVo is now available in the UK [tivo.com].

    (Speaking for myself, a TiVo user, personally, not for Compaq. And I'm in the process of adding a second disk to my TiVo to get 108 hours of recording time.)

    Steve Lionel

  • but when is it going to be available in the UK?

    If by "it" you'll be happy with any real world example of the technology rather than just the ShowStopper, TiVo is currently being advertised in the magazine delivered to Sky Digital customers in the UK (or at least to our house).

    I'm told, but this could be utterly wrong, and I'm not quoting the Sky adverts, that TiVo costs £199 for the box, £10/month for the sevice or £199 for lifetime.

  • D'oh! Redundant. Took my time writing it.
  • Out of curiosity, how will the UK handle the tax issue on TiVo units? I know that you have to pay a per-tv tax, and I wonder whether you will also have to pay an additional tax on a TiVo?
  • ....Or Canada

    Buying one is not a problem.. I could order 10 if I wanted, but none of them would be very useful without their "TV Guide service."

  • As I see it, TiVo has three great features:
    It pauses live TV
    It time-shifts shows
    It gets to know you and chooses shows for you

    It's a philosophical difference:

    TiVo: Record what you want to watch and watch what you want when you want to watch it and TiVo will provide additional shows that may match your preferences by monitoring your viewing habits.

    ReplayTV: Record what you want to watch and watch what you want when you want to watch it and provide the viewer with powerful tools to let the viewer choose what he wants to record and watch.

    ReplayTV provides you with very robust searching and filtering functions that to choose the shows you want to watch. You can search by Title, Director, Actors, Descriptions, etc. You can search for all occurances of a show as well. ReplayTV's "Zones" feature provides very robust search and filter functions allowing you to do very extensive "topical" searching. From the search results from any of these functions, you can set up single, recurring, and multiple recordings very easilly.

    While TiVo does offer the "Suggestions" feature where an algorithm records programs by trying to match to your preferences based on monitoring your viewing habits, ReplayTV instead gives the viewer powerful tools to choose what he wants to record.
  • People are easily making 140hour TiVos right now. Mine was upgraded to 87.5 hours with a 45GB drive.

    Wow. Are you aware of any shop that may be willing to sell these secondhand?

  • I think that many participants in this thread are focusing too much on the storage capabilities of the actual appliance. The long term solution to this type of problem is not to increase the size of the Tivo/Show Stopper hard driver.

    Rather, the goal should be to link the appliance into a large storage device on your home's LAN. We're migrating to a model where your stereo equivalent, your VCR equivalent, and your PC - equivalent will all share storage on some mucking big hard driver located in the basement somewhere.
    Its only a matter of a couple years.

    richard
  • No kidding, it's so incredibly difficult to press the "record" button if I'm going to walk away from the TV for any more than a few minutes during a show.

    ... and in so doing, you dump the current contents of the buffer. Have you actually used a TiVo?

  • I accept. Send me one and I will hack it.

    I would like a free ReplayTV anyway. ;)
  • Its per household with a TV, not per TV. i.e. I did not have to get another license when I got a TV card for my PC.
  • Sima makes a "Color Corrector" which for some "strange reason" disables macrovision 1 and 2 copy protection :)
  • I know some people are selling pre-upgraded units on Ebay. Just remember, upgrading voids the warranty....

    If you buy a normal TiVo it isn't hard. You go grab a bootdisk from www.tivofaq.com/hack. Put the new drive in your system, boot off the linux disk with the modified kernel, and run the BlessTiVo util. That's it. You then put the new drive in the TiVo and plug it in. The TiVo automatically recognizes the new drive and adds the space.
  • The TiVo only has one tuner, so unless you use some sort of switch box you have to watch what it is recording. This is just a limitation of having one tuner.
  • ... but when is it going to be available in the UK - if at all?
  • I think the TiVo is still one of the neatest things since AM stereo (insert your own quadrophonic headphones joke here), but I still don't like the idea that they're able (note: no proof that they're DOING it, but they CAN) to target ads to users based on memorized preferences. It's one of the VERY few things keeping me from dropping the Big Bucks on one before Christmas.
  • Or Sweden, or the rest of Europe?
  • This is pretty cool, but what I'm really waiting for is one of these things with a nice, low-price, removable media option on it.

    I'd love to have a way to record some TV onto DVD-R, CD-R, JAZ, or even good old tape backup.

    Heck, a great option would be to just have an external SCSI/USB/Firewire/whatever connector so you can choose your own media.

    Of course, this will probably be considered too big of a "risk of piracy" for the corporate powers-that-be, so we'll probably never see a commercial device with this option on it.

  • Nope... (Score:2)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Sounds like another Tivo waiting to happen.

    The specs are nice, I wouldn't mind having a device based around the same card. But I could seriously do without the Macrovision (stupid A/V laws :).

    However, my big question is, why can't they make this like a VCR? Does your VCR broadcast your information back to anyone? I didn't think so! Well, now that it's a "computer", why does it suddenly have to be networked? Why do I not have faith in some corporate privacy policy?

    I, for one, would pay extra up front to not have my information broadcasted back to people. Really.
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
  • The unit automatically calls and downloads the program guide every night from 2:00 to 6:00 a.m.

    Why would it need to stay online for 4 hours? This is going to result in some stupendously big phone bills...

  • Must have... (Score:4)

    by BrK ( 39585 ) on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @02:47AM (#732782) Homepage
    I've used Tivo since the first version and have to say that after having gotten used to it, I consider it a must-have piece of gear. However something else that I've also found is that it's really only the basic features that you seem to use. The most important factor is the recording capacity. That being said, the real thing that will put one of these boxes in the forefront will be hours per dollar, Ie maxium recording time for minimum price.

    The other thing that needs to be addressed is how they fit in with higher-end home theater gear. The problem that ALL units have right now is that they don't have digital audio capapilities, or component outputs. These will become more important as we see more digital cable and DSS HDTV channels, or channels with 5.1 digital sound.
    Right now my Tivo is useless when I'm watching a PPV movie on DSS that has digital audio. I can't even stream the video through the Tivo because it has a 3 sec. buffer/delay. So, I have to watch the movie in real-time if I want to enjoy the 5.1 sound.
    Other than the lack of hi-def A/V connections the Tivo does everything it needs to do.
  • I can't wait to get one. An easy way to edit out commercials. Imagine that! There is a LOT of big bussiness out there that hates the idea that I might watch TV un-interupted. I'm not too concerned, I just wonder why the RIAA hasn't stepped in to shut down this potentially harmful technology. I mean DIGITAL copies of copyrighted material? It won't happen until I modify my Tivo with removable hardrives.

    In the mean time it should be fun to reverse engineer one of these puppies. I'd like to add an algorythym that detects commercials and automatically zaps them (thus my need for removable Hard Drives). Should be pretty simple, look for the audio signal to jump by 3db and you know that a commercial is starting. (Please note tongue planted in cheek here)

  • Awww, man, I thought Panasonic had finally invented a device to stop certain shows from remaining on the air. I was envisioning some sort of Star Trek "pain causing" accessory such as a nice belt or perhaps a purse. Or pain cufflinks. That would allow us to send TV execs into writhing Shatneresque pain for foisting such crap shows as Survivor, When Animals Attack III, and well, basically everything on the WB, on us, the viewing audience. I guess I'll just have to continue watching only the Simpsons and Futurama...(sigh).
  • simple, look for the audio signal to jump by 3db and you know that a commercial is starting. (Please note tongue planted in cheek here)

    Not too far from the truth though. Shouldn't be to hard to detect advertising from audio characteristics. Of course if they don't want you to do this they'll leave the volume level alone.
  • Why can't you build one yourself? Aren't TV cards good enough?
  • Aren't TV cards good enough?

    That's precisely what I do. However software MPEG encoding isn't exactly fast, so I use Intel Indeo 5.1 quick compress with the quality around the 95% mark and then do an offline recompress with DivX ;-).

  • I doubt it takes that long...that's probably just the assigned time block for transferring the data from the server (remember FidoNet?). The actual data transfer wouldn't take more than a few minutes on a crappy phone line.

  • Re:Four hours?? (Score:3)

    by BrK ( 39585 ) on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @02:55AM (#732789) Homepage
    Actually, it calls a local number, or an 800 number if no local number is available. I've never noticed my unit staying on the phone for more than about 30 minutes, unless it's getting a software update, or it hasn't called out in a few days. The first call usually takes about 2 hours, though.

  • Re:Did they license the "preferences" stuff too? (Score:3)

    by a42 ( 136563 ) on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @03:31AM (#732790)
    but I still don't like the idea that they're able (note: no proof that they're DOING it, but they CAN) to target ads to users

    You might want to do some research into Replay TV's business model then.

    They have plans, among other things, to have banner ads when you press the pause button.

    It is also quite likely that they will eventually offer a "premium" service that doesn't have ads.

    They are totally not enlightened when it comes to hacking the box. TiVo is down with it as long as people don't try to steal the service.

    Don't neglect that they (ReplayTV) hid behind the cloak of the SEC "Blackout Period" for a long time before ultimately cancelling their IPO. They wouldn't even talk about what features were going to be in/out upcoming releases. That's pretty weaselly, IMHO.

    Lots and lots of people who have bought the Panasonic boxes returned them. Unlike other manufactureres, Panasonic chose to honor/interperet the Macrovision signal. TiVo and other Replay units pass the signal through but do not "honor" it. This means that the other units will be able to record Macrovision-enabled programs but not copy them. The Panasonic units will not even *record* them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem. However, the Showstopper occasionally misinterperets a weak signal as Macrovision -- efectively stopping the show.

    Lastly, don't forget that ReplayTV != TiVo. They have drastically different recording paradigms. Ultimately, you need to make your decision based on operational criteria.

    For (a lot) more information, check out the TiVo and Replay TV forums at AVS Forum [avsforum.com]

    --john

  • I stoppd reading when I got to "because the ShowStopper uses MacroVision copy protection, you can't daisy chain your DVD through the ShowStopper and then to the TV". I hate this kind of restriction because it makes the simplest kinds of hoopup impossible.

    I just use the basic cable package at home because it lets me use the normal remote control from my cable ready TV. It's nice and simple, just one with no clunky cable remote and no klugy programmable remote. Since I have no interest in copying, storing, and hoarding (my video library consists of zero, including purchases) it's too bad I need to put up with the various schemes which serve to stop my components from doing what the obviously should.

  • I do watch PBS and the BBC (both publicly funded). I also have no problems editing out commercials because the advertisers long ago broke the "TV social contract".

    Advertisers used to hold certain types of commercials, and certain programming until late at night to avoid exposing children to very adult situations and themes. The problem is that this is no longer the case, and as a responsible parent I am very concerned about what my child watches. I try very hard to control what my child is exposed to, and this is part of my duty as a responsible parent. The problem is that the networks and advertisers don't give a d*mn.

    When concerned parents talk about wanting some more control over what is seen on network television they are chided "CENSORSHIP, CENSORSHIP!!! You have the responsibility to monitor your children's viewing, blah, blah blah". Gee sparky, that gets very hard when you are watching what you think is viewing fit for children (say the Olympics) and the advertisements show serial killers in hockey masks, R rated movies with lots of adult innuendo and an announcer screaming about WWF coming to a local arena.

    Most so called childrens shows are nothing more than 30 minute advertisements. So much for that contract your talking about. The contract was broken LONG ago by the advertisers and I have no compucttion with deleting commercial content from anything I view.

    I hate censorship, and I don't want it. What I would like is the ability to make descions for myself, and to easily control what my child sees. This new device gives me a fighting chance.

  • If you insult Buffy again I may be forced to violence! :-)
  • It was launched over the weekend in the UK.
    Check Dixon's and Curry's stores

    Disclaimer: I've not seen one, but the ads are everywhere (movie & so-called 'lifestyle' magazines).
    Oddly I can't find a web page... The US one had no mention of the UK last time I checked, and tivo.co.uk is not in service.

    Keeper of the Wedding Shenanigans Home Page

  • The actual call is 10 minutes or so, and is either a local call (if available), or toll-free. The TiVo unit then takes another couple of hours to "digest" the download. While it's doing this, it still works normally, but response to some menu selections may be a bit slow.

    Steve (speaking for myself, a TiVo user, not for Compaq)

    Steve Lionel

  • I have the original TiVO, and one of its annoying limitations is the arbitrary 30 minute live buffer. C'mon, I have space to burn on this thing; let me pause live TV for more than a lousy half-hour!

    No kidding, it's so incredibly difficult to press the "record" button if I'm going to walk away from the TV for any more than a few minutes during a show.

  • TiVo looks better. (Score:5)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <`jason.nash' `at' `gmail.com'> on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @03:37AM (#732797)
    I only see a few features this has over the TiVo, and several the TiVo has over this. While this can pause for up to 10 hours, how often does anyone do that? Just record the show. You can adjust the TiVo pause time (requires a little hacking) if you want to.

    You don't get the great suggestions list that the TiVo builds up over time for you. This sounds like a gimmick but after a while it really does start to work well.

    The initial cost of this unit is higher..but you don't have a monthly fee, assuming you're in an area with a local number.

    The TiVo is hackable. You can do some really neat stuff with it beyond adding a lot more space since it runs Linux. Adding space is a big deal. People are easily making 140hour TiVos right now. Mine was upgraded to 87.5 hours with a 45GB drive.

    There are some good side by side comparisons of the TiVo and the RePlay units on the net. Check http://www.avsforum.com for some info, I don't have the URLs handy. But the bottom line is that the TiVo always wins. I looked at those pretty heavily before I bought mine, and also compared them at the store.

    TiVo also just released the 60 hour and DirecTivo units. The next major release of their software is due out at the end of the year as well.
  • This card does MPEG 1 OR MPEG 2 compression in real time (processor speed needed)

    It will allow you to pause live TV as well as timeshifting.

    It comes with a TV guide.

    It uses standard hard drives.

    On pricewatch, it's $270.

    The software in the box only works with 98, ME and 2000 :(

    http://www.ati.com/na/pages/products/pc/aiw_rade on/index.html

  • What I'd like to know (Score:3)

    by Th3 D0t ( 204045 ) on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @03:42AM (#732799)
    is who spends this much money and time watching TV that they'd by one of these things? They are just glorified VCRs, after all. Come on, can you really justify paying $700 for what a $50 VCR could easily accomplish?

    Oooh.. it runs Linux! It has a harddrive!.. these companies are just taking the techie market for a ride and getting rich off of it, much like Digital Convergence. By creating so much controversy about the CueCat, everyone in the tech community is going out to get their barcode scanner to hack and "keep the man down", but they continue to use the original software, giving DC lots of business.
    ---

  • Got one (Score:3)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @03:44AM (#732800) Homepage Journal
    The Panasonic ShowStopper is exactly the same as the current ReplayTV models (the 3020 and the 3030), though they've announce a 60-hour unit that isn't shipping yet (using the Maxtor 60G drive; why don't they use the new 80G?).

    I have the ReplayTV 2020, which is almost exactly the same as the 3020. The difference is that the newer units will save closed captioning, and the newer units will send out Macrovision signals when the source signal had Macrovision (the 2020 simply strips it out--too bad Amazon finally ran out of them).

    Anyway, I can't tell you how wonderful this unit is. As you know, it dials in every night (for maybe 10 minuts) to a local number (you have to pay long distance if there's no local number), and it downloads the TV listings. You then tell it to record specific shows, or you tell it to search, based on title, description, actors, or director. For example, I can tell it to record anything with John Cleese in it. You can also tell it to watch for shows you want to see, even if they aren't currently airing (I've got mine set to record Doctor Who).

    So when I go to watch TV, I don't have to channel surf to find something I want--I just watch something it has recorded.

    Oh, and it has the 30-second skip button for commercials that TiVo lacks. While this may seem like a minor detail, I've become addicted to it. I essentially don't watch commercials anymore. Sure, I over-skip, but then I use the 8-second instant replay button to go back.

    If you watch enough TV to make paying for cable worthwhile, then buying one of these is definitely worthwhile.
  • I had a large argument with a friend on this very topic. Its not a "glorified VCR" as it is a "convienent way to watch TV". What do you hate about TV? The shows you want to watch aren't on when you are ready to watch them. Ever since I got my TiVo, I've never watched live tv. I let it record what I want, and when I'm ready to watch TV, I watch the recordings. Plus the feature that will learn what you like and tape suggestions is great. It really starts doing well after a while...
    I personally think this is the bridge between the internet and the TV. It makes the TV convienent (plus you can FF through comercials if you watch live TV... just watch it 15 minutes later).
    I'd suggest you try one for a month. If you don't love it, go back to your regular TV.


    -- Don't you hate it when people comment on other people's .sigs??

  • This unit along with Tivo have little user information on the front. For some reason I am not able to check out Replay's web site (poor work connection) so I don't know what it looks like.

    The Tivo has 2 LED's on the front: power and recording. All information is displayed on screen. Couldn't they have at least diplayed a clock? I would have liked to see a little more info on the front of the unit. For example, the Tivo dials uses the phone every night for updates. Couldn't there be any indication that it is online? Channel indicator? On screen is fine but sometimes I am a bit lazy and don't want to press the remote control button to check the clock, channel, etc.

    I guess anything more than 2 LEDs would have cost WAY too much?!?

  • They have plans, among other things, to have banner ads when you press the pause button.

    Interesting how things change. One of the primary reasons I bought Replay rather than TiVo over a year ago was that TiVo had announced that it would be using banner ads, while Replay had announced that it wouldn't.

    The lesson I draw from this is that both companies have changed strategies in the past and are likely to change them again.

    FWIW, I find that TiVo users who haven't tried the Skip button on Replay might not realize just how valuable it is.

    Allen

  • I, too, am waiting for on-demand video. I want to be able to select and watch anything ever broadcast. I just hope they set it up so that you have the choice of either having advertising inserted or paying a small fee.
  • I'd love to have a way to record some TV onto DVD-R, CD-R, JAZ, or even good old tape backup.

    I think Jaz wouldn't work. While Jaz drives have "near hard drive speed" when it comes to reading, they're almost as slow as floppies when it comes to writing. DVD-R and CD-R would be kind of neat, especially if it recorded in a format that could be used by DVD/VCD players.
  • Shut the fuck up and try one. You'll see.
  • OK, I've been thinking about such devices for a while now (not actually able to buy one yet), and there's a few features I'd like to see. I'm still thinking of "rolling my own" someday, but probably one of these devices will catch up first.

    Real time MPEG encoder cards are vastly superior to the first-gen all-in-wonder cards. Added to an 80 GB HD and you've got a lot of recording power.

    Does anyone know if these channel lineup databases are public in any way? It would be great to be able to build a system that could query all episodes of "ALF" in your area so that you could cronjob all the recording. Step back for 3 weeks, and you should have a substantial collection. (Substitute ALF for your favorite show. If ALF *is* your favorite show, you need therapy).

    TCP/IP connection via 10BaseT is a must, not only for fast download of database info (I don't have a local phone ISP, just @Home) but also to get data OFF the unit for:

    1) editing
    2) backup
    3) online distribution^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmore backup

    Without some form of backup, storage of these files is a problem. Your unit would fill up with favorite program you were unwilling to get rid of and unable to transfer on to tape. As for backup? Dat tape? CD-Rom, DVD-Ram? It would be great to be able to generate a disk playable in a DVD player.

    Fast editing would be a key feature too. What tools are available to take a half hour program and trim its commercials in about 2-3 minutes of user effort?

    Don't get me wrong on the distribution thing. I would personally love to be able to build my own collection of home recorded DVDs of James Burke or Carl Sagan instead of racks of hard to store VHS tapes. Perhaps loan the DVD (physically) to my friends. I'd rather get these things from my cable line than from external sources. Bandwidth limitations gives the TV/cable industry a few years yet before the real sweating begins... (Why have cable when you can download that program and hour after it appears on air?)

    Does anyone have a similar setup? Thinking about one? What other features would you want to see on one of these things?

  • Actually, Replay had a firewire port present (but not activated) on some of the older 20** series units.

    Then the MPAA had their usual cow. (But people will pirate our movies and we won't make the bushels of money we're making now!)

    So Replay took the firewire port totally out of the 30** series units.

    I am so sick of listening to Jack Valenti's crap that now I use my QuickSkip button to bypass anything he says... gotta love that. TiVo makes you watch what you skip (at a fast speed).

  • I doubt there is much of an encryption involved(maybe something comparable to cuecat). This unit is not particularily powerful(cpu) and just handling the mpeg-2 streams is going to be enough. Scanning the harddrive for mpeg2-headers might be a good start or if there is a simple encryption algorithm involved looking for regular patterns(the forementioned headers). Maybe I'll have a look after buying one soon. Tivo has standard mpeg-2 encoding and decoding-chips(I wish someone would make an affordable pci-card with these). Any additional compression would be futile. And why would tivo send legal letters? You bought the hardware, it is yours to do whatever you please! Only thing they might have a case on is if someone actually disassembled the programs running the box(those not covered by GPL).
  • http://www.dbsdirect.com/satellite/j7222.html has a JVC model with Dish Network and WebTV (sic) built in for $19.99.

    One year programming required at $19.99/mo, but--hey--Dish Network beats DirecTV anyway.

  • I'm sorry, but moving a carrier frequency from 5.5MHz to 6MHz is not a minor hack. It's a total incompatability.
    Yeah, the video encoding is identical, but who wants TV with no sound.
    The only things that work are things that work with both carriers. i.e. are designed to work with the two different standards. My VHS video can play NTSC tapes, that doesn't make either of VHS and NTSC compatible with the other.

    FatPhil
  • Okay, so my electronics knowledge isn't up to scratch. I just know that a friend of mine has managed to connect a UK video recorder to a cheap German TV via RF, and it seemed to work.
  • While the TiVo is doing it's daily update, one of the LEDs turns yellow. It's not everything you're looking for, but it does have that.
  • K... I...H.

    If only Ghostwriter were here. He could figure it out.

  • 30 hours at *lowest quality* just isn't enough space for someone that wants to use their PTV device to its fullest capabilities. I typically record at Medium quality from my DSS feed, which on a TiVo takes about 33% more space than Basic quality and would take about 50% more space than Basic on ReplayTV. With a 30 hour unit, once you get a few movies saved that you'd like to view down the road and the normal weekly shows saved on the drive, you don't have much space for much else. I purchased a TiVo a little over a month ago mainly because I could easily add a hard drive and get 108 hours of basic quality recording space and over 66 hours at my preferred "Medium" level. I did a lot of research on the differences between TiVo and ReplayTV and found that each has its positives and negatives, and the main difference was that the TiVo is more of an "open source" solution. I'm not a huge TV watcher, normally a few hours in the evening, but I'm very happy with my TiVo. It's allowed me to catch shows (Oz, Sopranos repeats) that I normally can't catch when they air later at night, and its also allowed me to rearrange my TV viewing to fit my schedule. I was also pleasantly surprised that the TiVo Suggestions has caught a few shows and movies that I would've never thought to look for (it automatically recorded Platoon and Apocalypse Now one night). I still haven't gotten into major time-shifting, I still watch most shows the night they first air, but overall I'm very pleased.
  • The problem with making popular devices to edit out TV commercials is that the advertisers aren't dumb, and they know that their break-time ads aren't going to be watched.

    The media sections of newspapers are predicting a return to the 'good old days' of advertisters bankrolling the entire program, so they can snake their message into the scenery and dialogue, if not the entire plot. That hits on the freedom of program-makers to make good TV.

    I wouldn't be so eager to announce that you're watching commercial TV without watching the commercials. If you don't like commercials, you should watch publically-funded TV (the BBC [bbc.co.uk] is great for that) rather than break the TV social contract.

  • I really like that this model allows the use of all available drive space for the "live" buffer.

    I have the original TiVO, and one of its annoying limitations is the arbitrary 30 minute live buffer. C'mon, I have space to burn on this thing; let me pause live TV for more than a lousy half-hour!

    Most of the PTV recorders on the market have similar problems with customizability. I understand the manufacturers want Joe Sixpack to be able to use the device quickly, but for heaven't sake, why don't they provide an advanced features menu?

  • Yeah, because getting an advert for OSS Hats and Training could really mess a guy up.

    I don't understand what the problem is with targeted advertisements - especially when you're going to get ads anyway. It's not like TiVo don't collect your viewing information anyway - and if so then it's that most people should be offended at, not targeted adverts, right?

    Anyway, as the King of the World, I should know about these things. What am I missing? Why are people so against targeted advertising?

  • Good thing for competition. This one has a feature one better than the Tivo. The 10 hour pause is great. The Tivo only has a 30 minute pause.

    Of course the Tivo already let's you do manual time recording. It's not quite what I would like however. (the local TV station here likes to start Friends at 2 minutes before the hour so I'm always missing the first 2 minutes. I'd like to be able to fix that without having to set a manual 6:55 to 7:30 recording)

    When will they get all these features all together in one box? Hopefully when they do it will be a software upgrade.

  • TiVo is a better deal (Score:3)

    by Peter Allan ( 235555 ) on Wednesday October 04, 2000 @04:02AM (#732824)
    I own a TiVo (love it) and I read the review. ReplayTV and TiVo cost the same if you pay TiVo's $199 lifetime service. With TiVo you have the option of paying $10/mo or $100/yr for service.

    From the photos it looks like the ReplayTV does not have a fan, and hence the heat problem. My TiVo has a fan that runs at a silent "waft" speed, and the software tells me it is 97F inside the box in a 74F room. The device is in a stack of AV equipment.

    As I see it, TiVo has three great features:

    • It pauses live TV
    • It time-shifts shows
    • It gets to know you and chooses shows for you
    ReplayTV currently only has the first two features. I have not direcly compared but all reports say TiVo's software is easier to use too.
  • Oh yeah, forgot Buffy...sawry. Everything else on WB, however, deserves PAIN!
  • I've been reading the specs for the all in wonder radeon and with the bundled software(windows only i think) it looks very functional. Anyone know if I could get by with a Duron and a 5400rpm drive for such a box?


    That setup will do fine for everything except recording. Just watching and stuff will be great, but with anything less than a 700mhz machine the recording at decent quality blows frames all over the place.

    Kintanon
  • [i]While TiVo does offer the "Suggestions" feature where an algorithm records programs by trying to match to your preferences based on monitoring your viewing habits, ReplayTV instead gives the viewer powerful tools to choose what he wants to record. [/i]

    Not exactly, it's based on what you tell it your preferences are. And Tivo has those same powerful tools to choose what you want to record. With 2.0 at the end of the year, I'd say the Tivo's selection tools will be somewhat more powerful than Replay, thanks to user settable show priorities.

    ---
  • You're thinking of the Tivo, which can use an 800 number if no local number is available. With Replay, you must use a local number, even if it costs you long distance charges. They have no 800 type number to use.

    ---
  • ...and in so doing, you dump the current contents of the buffer. Have you actually used a TiVo?

    Tip: in 2.0, due out by the end of the year (and already out on the DirecTiVos!), you won't. Hit record in the middle of a show, and it will try to grab as much of that show from the live buffer as it can, and save it all.

    ---
  • It's not intended for long term storage, but for short term (2 weeks or less, really). The standard method of usage:
    a) you set it up to record a show, whenever it comes on.
    b) whenever you sit down, it has a bunch of stuff for you to watch.
    c) once you've watched the show, you delete it. If you want to save it for a longer period (long term archival), you record it to a more permanent medium, such as VHS tape or something.

    It's mainly a way to divorce content from time, to make when a show comes on no longer matter.

    ---
  • The two LED's on the Tivo are multicolored. The left one is green when the unit is on, and flashes yellow when it picks up remote control inputs. The right one is red when recording, yellow when using the phone, and orange if both are true.

    ---
  • 1. While it's recording, you can only watch the show being recorded.

    I think both Replay and Tivo will allow you to watch any recorded program while it's recording something else. I know Tivo will, certainly.

    2. It appears to me that once you select a show to record every occurence of it only cares about the day and time of that show and ignores the title of that show from that point onward.

    No, both units download guide information, Replay 7 days in advance I think, Tivo 11-12 days in advance. From this Guide info, it finds out when the show is coming on, and records it. Tivo, has functionality to not record the same episode more than once, if it has guide data on what the episode is about. However, sometimes it doesn't have that data, and will record it again, thus giving you a repeat. No big deal, and it doesn't happen nearly as often now that people have griped at Tribune and the networks about providing accurate data. Anyway, it's not just a "channel+time" setup. It's a "Pick the show, let me take of the rest" type of thing, on both units.

    ---
  • You can't buy the Radeon AIW yet. You have to run your PC while watching TV. That may not be a problem while watching "Friends" but what about Aliens 2? I don't want to hear that fan humming when they're sneaking around in the pod room.

    AND GeForce already beats it in 3D, with not even an announced product from ATI to come. I think it's good, but not the best solution.
  • You can call TiVo and opt out of their data collection. People always forget about the opt-out policies most of these companies have. And before someone jumps on me about trusting some company, my company does marketing data collection and believe me, we do EVERYTHING we can to make sure we follow our privacy policy or else we get in real trouble. I expect someone like TiVo to do the same.
  • If you want more space on a TiVo just add it. It's amazingly easy and takes very little time, unless you back up your original drive. I added a 45GB hard drive to my 30 hour sony and now have an 87.5 hour TiVo.
  • The Tivo hacking folks have made some great discoveries. Like how to extend that LiveTV Buffer out to an hour or more. Or how to increase your capacity to 100+ hrs of video.

    www.tivocommunity.com

    ---
  • TiVo's 2.0 version of software, due around Xmas, has this feature. Front and back padding, adjustable per Season Pass.

    www.tivocommunity.com
    ---
  • You can increase the buffer on the TiVo. Check the TiVo Hack faq at http://www.tivofaq.com/hack

    It's not REAL simple to do, but if you ever upgrade your TiVo you can do it at the same time.

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