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Handhelds Hardware

The new Palm VIIx 212

Posted by Hemos from the me-wants-one dept.
Several readers wrote in about the new Palm VIIx. It looks really nice and all, but I've got to say that the Handspring looks good too. If anyone's had a chance to use a prerelease of the new VIIx, please post your experiences below.
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The new Palm VIIx More

The new Palm VIIx

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  • I want something in the Palm V style casing with a color screen. I also wish they'd get rid of that little writing space and replace it with more screen real-estate and just make writing on the entire screen the default. Maybe even a more natural writing feel like the Cross pen stuff so there's a bit more resistance when I'm writing on the screen to make it feel more like paper.

    Actually I'd like it to be slightly larger, but thinner.

    Either that or one of those little 'padd's from Star Trek... nice and thin with a very simple interface and a highly efficient input mechnism. I personally can do without all those fancy graphics and 3D bullshit in a tiny device, but that's just me.

  • I dunno, I personally dig the ridges, they've probably kept me from dropping the damn thing several times, heh.

  • Not to mention the Visor's memory tweaking that makes it run significantly faster than a palm III. 35% faster, according to my benchmarks, anyway.

  • let me guess, your favorite little rascal is spanky?
  • The Troll is my shepherd, I shall not want. He makes me write down my copious notes on a glorified notepad, he leads me beside quiet waters, he restores my rechargeable batteries. He guides me in paths of new technology for technology's sake. Even though I surf through the valley of the shadow of death (cough, M$, cough), I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your cell phone and your pager they comfort me. You prepare a Newton before me in the presence of my classmates. You anoint my address book with email; my RAM is maxxed out. Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of Fry's forever. (Yes, but don't call me Shirley.)
  • Well the SD (secure digital) cards have been standardized for almost a year now and the first products are beginning to come out. SD is actually an extension of the MMC format and maintains backwards compatability with MMC. For less sketchy details look at the datasheets abailable from Sandisk [http].
  • yeah.. funny, isn't it.. i'm the first one with the news, yet i'm redundant 'cause some other guy got modded up to 5 quicker..

    thanks for noticing, though..

    wish
    ---
  • 3.5 was released earlier this year.
    Devices using 3.5 are out, but 3.5 is not available as an upgrade yet. Dunno why they're holding it back.

    There have been indications on palm-dev-forum that OS4.0 will be dramatically different. No clue on when it will arrive, but it will presumably be associated with new hardware (possibly the rumored switch to the StrongARM processor; more likely some sort of expansion interface and higher display resolution/larger screens)

  • i'm waiting for the samsung (developed) YOPI. linux based, color screen, 206 MHz ARM processor, browser, mp3 player, multimedia ready baby. mmmmm. -queque
  • What case did you use to clip the Visor to your belt? I had this one. [amazon.com] I bought it from HandSpring, and it rather sucked. It's pretty cheaply made, it should retail for $4.95, not $20! I broke the clip about 3 weeks after I got it, and it never really fit snugly on my belt. I think I'd prefer one that the belt actually looped through, rather than clipped on.

    I need to get my Batman Factor up to three. I only have my Leatherman and my Nokia 5120 on my belt right now...
    ---

  • I just checked. There's a service plan with unlimited usage for 44.95 a month.

    Not pricey at all, given its utility.

  • Re:The Visor (Score:3)

    by underwhelm ( 53409 ) <underwhelmNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday August 07, 2000 @10:02AM (#872951) Homepage Journal
    I use energizer NiMH rechargeable [energizer.com] AAAs. They last me about 2-3 weeks, and supposedly last 1000 cycles.
  • and you can pre-order the innogear minijam mp3 player from www.innogear.com now. i did. it reads ebooks and you can use it's 32-64 megs of ram for storage too... i'm just going to love taking it to parties and plugging it into peoples stereo systems so that they can all get off on the latest illegal britney/eminem cut-up. mmmmm. -queque

  • You're right, I did overlook that. Thanks for pointing it out.

    On a side note, I wonder how many people need the whole wireless clipped web thingy? I might conceivably use it on my bus ride in the morning/evening (45 min. each way), but that's when I usually sleep. The rest of the time, there's a computer within spitting distance (unless I take lunch out, but that's because I want to get away for awhile).

    I work at an ISP, so... There's always computers around. I'm sure some people will like the wireless clipped web stuff, but I don't need it - I will be happy to customize my Visor with a GPS and (maybe) someday with something better than the current EyeModule (the pictures are technically pictures, but they are pretty poor).

  • Same number of pixels (160x160), smaller display.
  • I started out using the original Palm Pilot Pro (1MB), made before Palm was acquired by 3COM. It was neat to see what could be done with 1MB - if I kept my Palm for just work-related stuff and misc small personal things, it did just fine.

    I don't wear my Visor on my belt at all - that would be awkward, I think. Since it's the summer, I wear cargo shorts a lot, and just stuff it in a pocket. Otherwise, it's in my back pack a lot.

    The most that I might have on my belt is a knife (I'd like a leatherman!), and I've got a Casio Databank 150 watch for when my Visor doesn't seem to be around but I need to note an appointment, use a calculator, whatever.

  • Runs on AAA batteries rather than rechargeable ones

    But you can always get rechargeable AAA's, they just don't come with it.

    Certain units have a memory problem. Handspring has released a patch.

    This problem also occured in some of the 8 MB Palms.

    I have a regular Visor, and so far I like it muchly. I like the fast USB synch, the nice screen, the expansion slot, and the price. The one thing that bugs me is the cover. It doesn't have a nice flipping cover like the Palm's, but instead has a detachable faceplate.
  • I've also had a Visor for a few months now. I definitely dig it. One thing I've found cool that I don't think Palm does is sync via USB. It's faster than serial which works well if you're transfering a sizeable amount of data (I use AvantGo).

    Also, I think Palm is in a bit of a weird spot, kinda like Apple was, they were selling both the software and the hardware. Now Apple no longer licenses their OS. Trouble for HandSpring?

  • *BZZZT* According to the handspring modules stuff, Avantgo is going to offer special support on some kind of wireless springboards. So.. it may not be hardware , but I promise you it will be wireless.

    Magnwa
  • "A Plugin for the type: text/plain cannot be found"
    Damn, seems like netscape is falling back when it comes to keeping up with standards.
  • Skytel sell's service for the motorola T900, its just a little bit wider than my old advisor gold alpha numeric pager and has a lighted 37 key keyboard.. full two way email and has address book.. its only 150 bucks, if you looking for a light ass wearable thats fully functional for wireless email they rock.
  • Also, people failed to note (*cough* *cough* I did, but got rejected) the new M100, which is supposed to be colourful, $149, 8mb...

    Call it a guess, but perhaps your were rejected because the M100 ships with 2MB, not 8MB.
    Now, I am not one to be picky, but this might be it!
  • Ahh, killing a Palm Pro is an art form..

    What took mine in was a 10 foot drop to a concrete floor, with a few pounds of books atop of it.. No cracks, no visible breaks inside or out, but the damn thing wouldn't boot.

    --

  • Before, during, & after the release today, the www.palm.com website has changed twice!

    First there was the same page as yesterday.
    Then there was a list of palm products.
    Then there was a little flash (?) thingy with the previous page moved off to palm.com/products

    Wassup with that?

    When I hit the 'buy now' button, I got a 404 error. A few hours later, I was able to put it in my shopping cart, but the pages loaded so slowly that I couldn't finish an order. Now, I get a Http/1.1: Server too busy. Icky icky icky.

    I guess Palm wasn't ready for the /. effect.

    --



  • I can beat that I dropped mine, from a table 4 feet, on a concrete floor, no case, not even a scratch. not to mention I used mine as a flashlight duriing a power outage once.
  • The VIIx is better than the Visor because the Visor doesn't have wireless access.. Sure, you could buy the cellular springboard modem for it, but then you still have to buy an ISP. The VIIx comes with Palm.net, which is an ISP and has e-mail. Besides, the translucent color case of the visor might be cool for kids, but the plastic breaks easier and the buttons are crappy. Nice try Visor, but your "good looks" are not for the more professional users that are spending the money.

    pt
  • Why pay $149.95 for 8mb more when if you had a Visor, you could get almost 2 8mb flash Springboard modules for that price! (They're $79.95 each)

    I personally love my Blue Visor Deluxe... I've never had one problem with it!
    ------
  • Talk about apples and oranges... there is no wireless 'net for the Handspring yet.

    You want to talk about apples and oranges, quit using the company name as the product name. It is the Handspring Visor. The name of the product is not the "Handspring." And although it's not due until later this month, the Glenayre @ctiveLink [visorcentral.com] will be the first 2-way Springboard module (and also the first to be usable outside the Visor).
    ------
    James Hromadka


  • Thank you! I've been searching these comments waiting for people to stop putting that damned Visor up on such a high pedestal... I think they just like the pretty colours...

    Anyway, I just bought my first handheld (until recently I considered them rather silly) and I opted for a TRGpro. Yeah, they're a bit expensive but if you happen to want expandability they are definitely the only way to go. I've had mine for a little under a week now, and I've been having *great* fun just toying around with it. Pretty soon I may decide to buy a CF modem (or heck, even a serial port would do) so I can play around with a few of the internet apps.

    The CF slot is an industry standard (or so I believe), with lots of hardware already on the market, whereas that Spingboard is proprietary.

    And now I shall commence in pointing out to all of you Palm and Visor users that I have the ability to buy a 340MB hard disk or 56k modem for my PalmOS device of choice. Nyah.
  • Talk about apples and oranges... there is no wireless 'net for the Handspring yet

    Actually, according to their grid [handspring.com] they do have a few different wireless modules, including an 802.11 compatible module. And it still should come out cheaper than a palm VII, which requires you to use their expensive Palm.net dialup service.

    nosilA

  • and this Palm VIIX, then maybe fashion a connector from the watch to the Palm, run Apache on the watch, use the palm for the Internet connection, then find a Slashdot code clone, viola,

    SlashWrist!

    ---------------------------------

  • There are lots of free calculator programs that you can download right off the net. I will agree that Palm's default calc app sucks (order of operations isn't even correct) but I don't agree that a visor is the better machine because the calculator app doesn't suck.
  • I've had my Visor Deluxe since January, and I absolutely love it. My first Visor died after two weeks, but I called their tech support, and they overnighted me a new one, no questions asked! I put my old one in the return box, sent it back to 'em, and I've had no problems since. It runs like a charm, and I've even been able to get it to work with Linux using the Linux Palm apps. I highly recommend the Visor. For what you pay (in my case, approx $240) you get a great deal, and the Springboard socket makes 'em very expandable.

  • Syntax is not important???
  • Also, there is USB support for the Visor in Linux too http://sourceforge.net/project/?group_id=1404.

    JOhn
  • check out the Jot [shopcic.com] product; it allows full screen text entry.
  • If you're looking for expandability, you should consider the TRGpro [trgpro.com]; while it's a bit more than the Visor ($330), it has a CompactFlash+ slot (which takes CF cards, modems, bar wand scanners, etc.) and has 2 MB of onboard flash, as well as 8 MB of RAM. Another nice feature is that the HotSync port is a standard Palm III port, so you can use Palm III/VII accessories (GoType keyboards, etc.) without any special adapters.

    Another nice thing about CF is that it's electrically compatible with PCMCIA; you buy a cheap ($10) adapter, and your CF+ modem (or flash memory) will also work with a standard laptop.

  • ...if you can afford the expensive Springboard modules, you should buy a IIIxe with that money instead.
    • There are very few things that Springboard modules can do that software can't. And if you want removable storage, nothing can beat a TRGpro [trgpro.com], which is like a Palm IIIxe with a CF slot. A camera is also available for Palm devices.
    • The speedup of the HotSync time by using USB instead of serial is negligible. My serial sync takes about 1.5 minutes, downloading of four fairly large AvantGo channels over dialup included. On the other hand, USB synchronizing is not supported under Windows 2000, and may be flakey elsewhere. The serial cradles are extra.
    • The case is pretty, but also a bit thicker and bulkier. The cover isn't attached to the unit, which isn't very convenient at all.
    Don't get me wrong. I respect Palm's remembering Apple's mistake and allowing others to compete with them, and I applaud Handspring for building such a huge customer base so quickly. I hope that Handspring continues to grow, and that a few other competitors appear.

    I just fail to see any advantage to buying a Visor for the same price as a similar Palm.

    --

  • I believe that the PalmOS 3.5 is either out on the "x" models of the Palms or is due out soon.

    As for why the Palm retains marketshare for the overall handheld market, I think that has to do (partially) with the fact of it's earlier stable releases (I don't know: is CE stable yet?) but mostly I think it's due to the fact that the Palms attemt to go for an different part of the market. They don't try to replicate a PC, rather they're just designed to be pda's. You can see this in the fact that the Palm file system is optimized for dealing with pda type info, Palm's are much lighter and smaller than WinCE machines, and their battery life is much longer.

    You're not going to play mp3's on a Palm (I've coded for it's processor and believe me it's pretty slow), but at the same time it's got handwriting recognition (of a sort), it's pda functions are great, and with the Palm VII or a V with OmniSky you can use the Internet from any city that has BellSouth (or affiliated) towers. For now at least I think Palm's are going to retain their market share for pda types while WinCE makes gains among people who want their to take computer with them in their pocket. Within a few years though they'll probably do pretty mcuh the same amount of stuff even if slightly differently...

  • Well, I've seen bills that had the "unlimited" plan and that plan doesn't count various forms of POP3 email and other non Palm clipping stuff. I used to sell these damn things and heard lots of horror stories about how much they are a ripoff. If you stick to the palm.net service, you're fine.. but if you do excessive mailings and stuff through it, prepare to get billed out the ears.

    M
  • Why are AAA a problem!

    Consider that you have to leave the Palm V in a cradle to recharge for a couple hours. Why do this when you can go anywhere, pick up some AAAs, and you're ready to go.

    10 seconds of downtime versus a couple hours. I'd say the choice is pretty clear....

    About the size of AAA units? Bah, deal.... we'll have plastic batteries soon enough, as long as the major manufacturers don't drag their feet.
  • The eholster wouldn't be too bad if you could actually put a handgun (Nerf or Glock, choose your poison) and a hipflask on it. Of course if I wore one I'd look like a bowling ball wearing a thong...
  • Just wondering if anyone has had problems with lithium ion rechargable batteries failing to take a charge after time? My biggest problem with rechargable devices has been that after a year or so, they no longer hold a charge. Of course, I'm referring to cheap devices like cordless drills and beard trimmers, which may just be cheap batteries, but I'd hate to drop $400 on a Palm IIIc/Vx/VIIx and then have to toss it b/c the battery eventually fails...

    Thanks, in advance.

    ---

  • dear god. (Score:4)

    by gnarphlager ( 62988 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @09:13AM (#872983) Homepage
    you know, I don't want to hear about the "experiences with palms" that people WILL post.
  • If you actually take apart a TI calculator (My TI-85 at least), the screen is glass, it's just padded and protected so that there's no real way to break it. The palm screen is much larger and being a toutch screen the outer surface is milimeters from the glass, not a quarter of an inch.

    --Ben

  • Yeah, I don't think you'd really need the wireless web capability. My ISP buds tend to use an 8mb palm mostly as a mobile reference card for shitloads of data.

    I, however, need to sit in english class listening to a professor go on and on about the symbolism of milk IN the glass. Wireless web connectivity sounds great to me.

    Also, I want to put this thing in the middle of an in-vehicle GPS navigation system. Some Mapping software I've found + a marine GPS receiver I mount in my car + Palm VII with MapQuest route control software sounds great to me.

    --


  • www.trgpro.com [trgpro.com] ... enough said, almost.

    Wider IR port, better sound, CF slot, 8mb memory plus 2megs of flash default, ability to run apps off a CF flash card (340mb IBM micro-drive anyone?), ability to store & run apps in flash. Reasonably priced... you get what you pay for.

    Ok, that's enough.
  • Anybody have a clue when the new PalmOS is coming out?

    Umm, what new PalmOS? There are new PalmOS's coming out all the time; 3.5 was released earlier this year.

    I doubt Palm will ever try to wedge something as bloaty as CE into their devices. Maybe I should change that to "I hope they won't". PalmOS does what it needs to do, and it does it well.

    Palm will continue to maintain their lead as long as the competition continues to not have a clue.

    Besides, I can telnet to any of my *nix boxes with my Palm -- what else do I need?

    -- CP

  • geeks and girls (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is the answer to the question: why do not chicks like geeks.
  • You know I have a handspring as well... I love the damn thing. I actually like the removeable faceplate. I've perfected the open-flip with one hand. I don't like the flip screen because they are bigger. and don't fold all the way, plus that damn clip at the bottom sticks out. The visor sits neatly on the table with the cover open.
  • Anybody have a clue when the new PalmOS is coming out? I'm doing work with "Windows Powered Pocket PCs" (I hate marketing), and the WinCE operating system simply kicks PalmOS in the butt.
    Besides the amazing hold Palms have on the market, what tricks do they have up their sleaves to maintain their position on top?


    "Blue Elf has destroyed the food!"

  • Visor vs. Palm (Score:4)

    by Exocet ( 3998 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @09:27AM (#872991) Homepage Journal
    My problem with 3Com's Palm products is simple: they are really expensive for what they do.

    I've been using the 'deluxe' aka 8MB version of Handspring's Visor now for about three months, and it has been great. It does what I want, since it runs the PalmOS it has plenty of apps available for it, etc. And I do happen to like the springboard module idea - I think of it as a way to customize my handheld (I want to turn it into a GPS unit). My Visor cost $250, direct from the retailer. A GPS unit would run about $150-$-200. Modems for the Visor run $120-$150.

    The new Palm VIIx is probably nice (I'm still looking at the stats and I'm not too impressed), but I want to know what makes it cost $150 more.

  • The m100 has only 2Mb of memory. Colored covers are $19.99 ea. after the initial black one that ships with it. The "handwriting recognition" that you speak about (in addition to the standard graffiti language input) is actually just a raster recording of screen contact so that you can write, sketch, etc. and save it as a sticky note without having to be precise. Hardly intelligent handwriting recognition.
  • it seems to me that palm computing now tries to sell a palm for every kind of audience, not just to those who always need to have the latest cool technical toy... the m100 will be rather cheap and is intendend to satisfy the palm-less masses, and the new palm vx Claudia Schiffer edition [claudiaschiffer.com] is supposed to appeal to the fashion types... I can't wait to get a palm in the colors of my favorite soccer team, complete with a soccer league timetable add-on, the possibilities to expand are seemingly endless for palm :)

    although I have to say that my palm III still does the trick and I don't really see the need to update, unless I have a few hundred DM lying around, but then I guess I'd buy a visor, they look kewler. :)
  • Perhaps, but the wireless access is FAR too pricy for my book. $49.95 plus hidden charges here there and everywhere.. I know people who get a lot of email who ended up paying $300 a month. At least Bluetooth looks to be a static fee, and that'll come out on the visor.

    magnwa
  • Wireless Ethernet to your office from 300 feet away maybe....
  • If you want a little more resistance when writing on your Palm Pilot, try these things out:

    WriteRight's [was-inc.com]

    The link I put here is for the color palm but there are others available. Actually, they started making them for other palms first. Anyway, it provides a nice resitance to the default stylus and other pens and such. Plus, it is pretty protective. I love 'em.

  • Its ia seven-X but thats not right for Roman numbers. Lets see here
    VIIx... VII is 7 and X is 10 so is it a palm 17?
    No thats not right...how does that rule go, if the bigger number is right of a smaller set you subtract so VII-x = 7-10
    Oh so its called a plam -3.


  • I just bought my first PDA, (the PalmOS-based TRGpro) and I am loving it.

    Anyway, about the star trek padd thing... I remember way back when watching Data and Geordi LaForge poke and prod on this little notebook-sized device that was possibly hundreds of thousands of times times more powerful than my 386 (16 MHz with 4MB RAM) and this thing's sole purpose was to *display data*. I wondered, back then, if I would ever see anything like it in my lifetime.

    I turn 21 in 7 days, and my PalmOS device is about as fast as my old 386 with twice the amount of memory. I'm beginning to feel nostalgic. :)

    [And about how they got data into a padd on ST, the data "synched" to the padd from the main computer using little memory sticks called isolinear data chips. They looked a lot like Sony's memory stick things, except translucent and colourful. Why not radio or infrared synching? I guess Star Trek writers were visionaries rather than inventors. :P]

  • Schwing! I just bought one less than a week ago and have no regrets considering how well this thing seems like it will keep me entertained until as least the end of the year.

    Perhaps some are cheaper, some are smaller, some are more colourful, but NONE are as GEEKY as a TRGpro.

    Oh, and did I mention the non-proprietary CompactFlash slot? With 3rd party hardware on the market before the handheld was?
  • Glenayre 2 Way Beepers [glenayre.com]

    They also have an interface coming soon to allow infra-red communication from palm device to beeper, to email server. On that same subject, they have something called Activelink module for Visor.

    @ctivelink [glenayre.com]

  • I don't think so. I haven't worn a watch for yers, and I keep my Palm in my pocket, where no-one can see it (wait, that sounded really bad).

    Er, that is, my Palm V is small enough even with the nigh invulnerable hard case to stay in my pocket all the time. I use it mostly as a notepad and phonebook though I'm starting to get into some more specialized uses (like dive logs and calculations). I don't care at all if other people see me using it or not, and that is reflected by the really well scratched up cover of the hard case from being in my pocket with my keys all the time.

    It's great to have a notebook where everything you ever write winds up in your computer at some point, and information on just about anything you care about but can't remember is always with you.
    For me, that replaced a mass of yellow stickies that were threatening to callapse into a singularity.

    And no, I'm not a manager either - just a normal programmer type.

  • I recently bought a Palm IIIxe (~$150) and a Motorola StarTAC ($229 less $50 rebate). I realized a few days after I got the StarTAC that it can be used as a modem, as long as you have the right cable.

    Sprint charges $99 for the "Sprint PCS Wireless Web Connection Kit" - their stupid Windows-only dial-up software and the StarTAC-to-DB9 serial cable. Not wanting their software, I searched around and found just the cable for $50 from ephones.com [ephones.com], but since I didn't want a 10 foot hotsync-to-db9-to-gender_bender-to-db9-to-startac cable dangling from my hip, and I am not good at splicing cables, I custom-ordered an 18" Palm Hotsync-to-StarTAC cable for a mere *cough* $85 from SyncableSolutions.com [syncablesolutions.com]. A few bucks for a job well done is alright.

    With the cable plugged into the Palm and the StarTAC, I just dial-up my local ISP account via a PPP connection and my Palm is on the web. Sure, it's only 14.4kbps, but I only paid the one-time fee of $85 for this new wireless Palm (ok, ok, plus the SprintPCS voice minutes I use while online).

    Works great with KBrowser [4thpass.com] (WAP browser) and ProxyWeb [proxynet.net] (neat image reducing proxy service for Palm).

  • After the untimely and unsightly death of my Palm III, I decided to invest in a decent case for my replacement. At auction, I got a PalmGlove case for $10. It retails for $20. It's a zippered case made of Neoprene, the same material they make wetsuits out of. I've batted it around a little bit, and the organizer inside doesn't have a scratch on it. The only nice thing it doesn't have is a belt loop, but I can just toss it in my bookbag's front pocket. It's available in a few different colors.

    It's much more secure than carrying it in one's pants pocket (I tried that) and I like the stylings of it, even though there are laws passed to ensure I'm never seen wearing a wetsuit. More info available here [beyond.com]. I would link to the Palm store, but it's down at the moment.
  • Those devices typically have NiCd batteries... which suck. (They have memory, which means to get the longest life out of them you have to completly discharge the battery before charging.) Lithium ion's don't have this problem. All rechargable devices will fail to take a charge over time, but the lithiums last much longer than NiCds.
  • I've had my visor for about 4 months now, I love it.

    It's a little smaller than the Palm VII and, if my understanding is correct, I can add an 8 MB expansion for a total of 16 MB. 16 Megs in a HANDHELD! That's 15 megs more than my first Mac.

    I have had very few compatibility issues with Palm OS software. The IR works perfectly with a Palm VII, just about a week ago I did my first "business card" beaming. It went off without a hitch.

    I like the springboard module slot. I can add a modem, or MP3 Player when my pocketbook allows.

    All in all, it's a great value for the money.

    LK

  • m100 same size as V (Score:3)

    by KFury ( 19522 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @11:47AM (#873008) Homepage
    According to Palm's site, the dimensions (wlh and weight) of the m100 are exactly the same as the Palm V and Vx. That in and of itself makes it attractive.

    If I didn't already have a V, I'd love to be able to get such a small Palm for $150. the Visor's .7" while this is just .4", just over half as thick.

    That and at $150 I'd be comfortable taking it places I wouldn't risk my Palm V.

    This'll definitely be the must-give present for the spouses, SOs and kids of devout Palm V/Vx owners.

    Kevin Fox
  • Actually, I use the the spare slipcase from my old Compas.(Network debugging tool) I have exactly that Handspring monster, and it kept slipping off my belt. I saw some heavy duty slip through key clips at the hardware store and thought about gluing one on, but never got around to it..

  • Re:A hint... (Score:3)

    by Phexro ( 9814 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @10:16AM (#873015)
    whew, that was close! slashdot might have lost it's journalistic integrity if they posted a story with inaccurate information!

    slashdot would never stoop to posting a story with inaccurate information.

    (Score: 1, Bitter)

    --

  • Re:M100 sucks (Score:3)

    by generic-man ( 33649 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @09:32AM (#873019) Homepage Journal
    But what's nice about it is that the digitizer is plastic, not glass. While this makes it feel a little bit cheaper, it also makes the unit a LOT more durable. I've dropped my TI calculator (with its plastic screen) dozens of times onto hard floors, and it always survived; dropping a glass-screened Palm on the floor results in the instant death [palminfocenter.com] of the organizer.

    IMO, this will be a nice selling point in bringing the Palm platform to the educational market. No more spending $100 for a replacement screen.
  • True, but a wireless modem for Handspring will be out soon enough. More then that, there will be a _choice_ of wireless modems and plans. Just take a look here [visorcentral.com] -- 4 wireless modules were shown at PC Expo.
  • If anyone actually has a Visor with a module of some kind, let me know.

    Well, I have a EyeModule [eyemodule.com] for my visor, and I love it. I've been having way too much fun [ofdoom.com] with it since I got it.

    Plug and play works great - stick it in, and the software gets installed.
    The resolution is 320x240 - pretty good for web pages.
    Picture quality is good while moving in bright (outdoor) light; if you are indoors, you have to hold still.
    If it gets too dark, you get the "Christmas Light" effect that old color quick cams used to get.
    --
  • I own one too and I'd like to add to the other posters comments about the battery. It *would* be nice to have build in rechargables but seeing how my batteries are going to last approximately 6-8 *weeks* between depletion I'm not seeing that as too much of a downer.

    The calculator is also far better than the built in Palm calculator (at least on the IIIxe). The visor calculator has nifty modes like scientific and logic.

    That said I hope the whole boatload of Palm devices has great success. I'd rather not see 'infighting', rather more one-upmanship.
  • I've got a Palm V. I had a III before that. My room mate has the 8 meg Palm III model.

    Bad:

    Can't update the OS from Linux. I run ONLY linux everywhere. Therefore I can't update the OS.

    Damn memory bug basically makes my room mate's palm pilot useless. When she checked 3com's web site, they didn't have a fix out. I'm not sure if they do yet or not.

    Good:

    I've personally never had the problems with mine that the room mate's had with hers. I've never lost data due to it crashing or had it just completely go apeshit.

    I can't update the OS with Linux, but I can do just about everything else with it. So synching and stuff is pretty straight forward.

    Of course, the PalmOS is perfectly suited for a limited use PDA. It gives me just the right amount of functionality for what I use it for.

    Slim size lets me carry it in my pocket everwhere. I'm more likely to have my palm pilot on me as I am to have a watch.

  • Re:The Visor (Score:3)

    by reimero ( 194707 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @09:35AM (#873038)

    I have a Visor Deluxe (8MB) in blue. I love the thing, to be honest. Here's a breakdown of the good and bad about it:


    Good:

    Inexpensive

    USB-native hotsynch utilizing the entire throughput for very fast synch operations

    Datebook+ is superior to Datebook

    Springboard expansion slot already has modules for modems, barcode scanners, books, games, remote controls, digital cameras and (I think) ethernet, with others on the way.

    Macintosh ready out-of-the-box


    Bad:

    No flash ROM (but the OS can be upgraded under certain circumstances)

    Runs on AAA batteries rather than rechargeable ones

    Certain units have a memory problem. Handspring has released a patch.


    Is it the handheld for everyone? Probably not. However, based on the number and types of springboard modules on the market already, it's only a matter of time before the Visor will have all the capabilities of a Palm VII.
  • I like color also, but it seems to me that much of what I can do with a palm I can do in black and white. I mean, do I really need appointments in color? sure I can prioritize/categorize, but how important is that? I'm not saying color isn't good, but as I understand it it drains batteries MUCH faster. So, is there a way to solve this problem? I would prefer B/W with longer battery life to color, but seeing as I can't afford either...

    ---

  • Re:Visor vs. Palm - Batman Factor (Score:3)

    by technos ( 73414 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @10:30AM (#873066) Homepage Journal
    Uh, I had a Compas+, a Netronics II, a Visor, a Gerber Gatorback and a Leatherman on my belt, plus a laptop in a carrying case for quite a while. Cellphones and pagers are in the pocket under the watch, so the vibrate feature isn't ignorable.

    One good thing about the Batman Factor; If you walk in to a place armed to the teeth, they assume you know what you're doing. Try it. Walk into some random office in jeans and a plain Tee with a BF over three (devices), and ask to see the telco equipment. ;)

  • I don't need an extra modem: my Palm IIIx connects seamlessly by IR to my GSM mobile (a Nokia 8210 [nokia.com], really tiny great thing). OK, it's 9600bps but I can get my mail in the train.

    Browsing is slow, although I can access WAP sites that are a little bit faster but scarce in content. And GSM mobiles work almost everywhere in the world, except in the USA of course :( OK, I know there's tri-band mobiles that work everywhere available from Motorola, but that's another story.

    Considering the power and memory available on Palm PDAs, I think 9600bps (or 14.400 in rare cases) are quite enough to send or receive email. If you need more, get a laptop. It'll still work with the mobile phone as a modem and there's great chances you'll have a regular modem in it. Or just wait for the 3G phones, it'll be 2MB/s...

    Now, I'd love to see those Palm/phone hybrids from Kyocera [kyocera-wireless.com] that are on the US market only 'cause they don't do GSM (only CDMA) OTOH, I like having the choice between having a tiny mobile (79g only) that fits anywhere and the full geek gear (a Palm III is quite bulky, can't wait getting a Vx!).

    In other words, why would somebody want a *real* modem in a Palm, when usually you got the mobile ready for the task, with no cable/hassle with it? OK, here everyone has a mobile and all Palm owners I know also have a mobile, since they pretty much fit together in a standard geek logic.

    .max

  • Exp. with VII and OmniSky (Score:4)

    by David Frankenstein ( 21337 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @09:43AM (#873076)

    I've been using a VII and a V+OmniSky service (via Novatel CDPD modem) for work recently and I think that the Omnisky is the way to go. For $49 (I think) a month we get unlimited service on the Omnisky at 19.2k, whereas the Palm VII is limited to a much smaller amount of data for $39 a month at a much lower BW (although it seems to have a lower latency).

    The cool thing about the OmniSky is that you can pull the modem off of the Palm V when you decide you don't want wireless access and the thing is much smaller. Also, I get the feeling the Palm VII is doomed because it's tied to an older packet radio network compared to the OmniSky.
  • I want something in the Palm V style casing with a color screen.

    Argh. I hear this a lot. Look, the IIIc is bigger than the other IIIs. I understand they had to remove the hotsync cover jsut to make room for all the innards necessary for a color screen. And you want to put that into a V casing?
    One thing I like about my PalmIIIxe is that it is grayscale. Colors eat up battery and processor, and I don't need them on what is essentailly and organizer and, for me, word processor. I have some games, but the thing about the Palm is that it isn't a gaming platform and isn't meant to be.

    I have to agree with you on the PADD thing, though. I still can't figure out how they input stuff...

    For a good graffiti writing surface, I use Scotch "Satin" transparent tape. 1 strip fits great over the writing area and offers just the right (haha, write!) amount of resistance.
    -J

  • m100 (Score:2)

    by wishus ( 174405 )
    The Palm m100 [palm.com] is out too. This is the one with the smaller screen (same resolution), 2MB RAM, and changeable faceplates (think Nokia).

    wish
    ---

  • Don't forget the m100 (Score:5)

    by generic-man ( 33649 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @09:15AM (#873089) Homepage Journal
    The m100, also on Palm's web site came out today. It has 2MB of RAM and is designed to replace the Palm IIIe, and compete with the Handspring Visor. Despite not having the Visor's SpringBoard slot, the m100 sports a cover with a special hole so that you can see the clock through it, and changeable faceplates. It also allegedly has flash memory for OS upgrades, something the Visor lacks.

    Also today, the Vx debuted in two limited-edition colors: champagne and "millennium blue." Kind of a shame that there wasn't any other innovation attached.
  • I've used the IIIc and the III and I have to say there's no compelling reason for the colour display. The only useful thing I can do is view colour images. The OS itself was designed before colour and gains very little from the being in colour (in fact it renders noticeably slower). The IIIc is just Palm's answer to the colour WinCE devices.

    I also hate the fact that I have to recharge my Palm in the cradle. AAA batteries are a much better idea.

    The one point I do agree on is the form factor. The Palm V is the only remotely attractive device in the Palm stable. The IIIc form factor just plain sucks (they took the III and made it bigger! What the hell?). The VII is also a sterling example of appalling case design. I can't say the M100 grabs me either with it's smaller display.

    My next Palm WILL be a Vx...8MB, crisp display and nice form factor...although of course it won't work with my existing cradles (but that's another mail altogether!).
  • >How much does THAT cost on a Handspring?

    I don't know, but it looks like it costs a fair amount on a Palm VII...

    According to Palm.net, the 'Basic' plan is $9.99/month - with a 50 *K* per month transfer limit.
    I figure I'd have used up my limit in a day, just for e-mail.
    The 'Volume' plan (300K/$39.99/month) would prolly last me a week, also just e-mail.
    If I go over my limit, it's $.20 per *K*.

    If I wanted any sort of useful service, I'd need to be spending $45 a month.
    I already have a digital cell phone, with gobs of *cheap* minutes, that I can connect to
    anything with an RS-232 port... (*cough*visor*cough*)

    Palm VII just doesn't seem worth it in my situation...


    =-=-=
  • Does the m100 have the same dimensions as the other Palm screens? The picture of it on the palm site makes it look shorter than the VII. Same number of pixels?

    Just wonderin'
    --
  • It looks cool, but with the exception of hideously overpriced software, I'm very happy with my Psion Series 5mx [series5mx.com]. 16 meg, flash slot, IR port, serial port, and a keyboard (doesn't come with anything like graffiti, but Scribble [telia.com] works fairly well and it's free). It works fine using my cell phone as a modem or even a regular external modem.
    (Side note: Can palms do this as well? I know about hooking them up to GPS with serial cables).

    Chris the MathFreak

  • Re:stress testing + emergency equipment (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    i dropped mine into a vat of molten lava. i lost my hand when i reached in to retrieve my palm so i can't attest to its durability.
  • There are very few things that Springboard modules can do that software can't. And if you want removable storage, nothing can beat a TRGpro, which is like a Palm IIIxe with a CF slot. A camera is also available for Palm devices

    I kind of agree here, having a Handspring now and planning to switch back to a Palm product if the next generation of Handspring doesn't come out soon and demonstrate marked improvement.

    The Springboard modules, for the most part with maybe the exception of memory expansion and a modem, have been novelty. I mean, a camera? On this screen? And an MP3 player? Which costs more, all thing considered, than a standalone Rio or MPTrip player?

    The speedup of the HotSync time by using USB instead of serial is negligible. My serial sync takes about 1.5 minutes, downloading of four fairly large AvantGo channels over dialup included. On the other hand, USB synchronizing is not supported under Windows 2000, and may be flakey elsewhere. The serial cradles are extra.

    Here I have to argue in the Handspring's favor. The speed on my USB syncs are amazing now (15 seconds). I can't stand using my serial cradle anymore (1.5-3 min syncs), and I have many AvantGo channels downloaded over a T1 connected LAN. As for Windows 2000, I haven't had a problem yet. I just synched up my Visor a minute ago, right here on this Win2k Professional machine.

    The case is pretty, but also a bit thicker and bulkier. The cover isn't attached to the unit, which isn't very convenient at all.

    IMHO, the case is ass-ugly, though more so in terms of daily use and ergonomics than visually. I didn't think so when I was first thinking of getting one, and thought it was kinda neat looking.

    But now that I've had one for most of a year, I miss the hand-fitting curves and thumb-flippable cover of my Palm III. The snap on cover is a fiasco, making me hate to take it out of my pocket to capture a quick thought. The case design reminds me of a rounded fallback to the original boxy Pilots, more like a smaller graphing calculator than a personal device.

    I just fail to see any advantage to buying a Visor for the same price as a similar Palm

    8 months or so ago, I might have disagreed. But at this point, I'm thinking of going back over the fence to Palm. I mean, the whole reason I'm a PalmOS fanatic is because of their sticking to principles of simplicity.

    In that vein, I probably will never order any Springboard modules beyond additional storage. Otherwise, why not just go get a WinCE device so I can play with MP3s and movies for a month or two until I get bored, realize that my laptop and desktop do a much better job, and then try figuring out how to get the thing to actually manage my personal data.

    So, I might just go get one of the new Palm Vx colors, since I don't know that I give a crap about color, but man do I like the feel of one of those in my hand :) (Can't say the same for my Visor anymore.)

  • How about Qualcomm's [qualcomm.com] PDQ. It does analog+PCS phone and has a Palm (III I think) built in. Lets you use the palm address book to dial numbers, etc. I'm pretty sure you can use the net over the cellular coverage. No MP3 though, but I think you could hook up a serial GPS module. It's also about $800 :)
  • I bought one of those Pilot styluses--the ones with the unscrewable tips at both ends, with a ballpoint pen in one, reset pin in the other.

    It broke within three weeks! The plastic the tips are made out of is really weak. Crumbles right to bits after a couple weeks. Never again!
    --

  • ...which is really what is pissing you off, isn't it? :)

    I don't need or want color. With the exception of the iPAQ at $799+, every other color PDA out there has a screen that is absolutely unreadable outdoors. Why on earth would I want that? The screen on my Palm V is wonderfully sharp inside or outside.

    Li Ion? I've got that now in my Palm V. Wireless? Not everyone needs or wants that, especially if I have to pay $25 bucks a month for it.

    The bottom line is you can have just about everything YOU want, but you'd have to pay about $800 for it. Most people aren't willing to pay that for a PDA.

    As for your single new Palm unit for customers to invest in, that's just silly. No computer/PDA/phone can be everything to all people. Different strokes for different folks, which is why Palm is making all these different units.
  • The m100 doesn't have flash. It's a little cheaper than the Visor, but the springboard potential and faster (USB) syncing make the Visor a much better deal IMHO.

    This page [palmos.com] has more details on the hardware.

  • Do you know what AvantGo [avantgo.com] is, or are you just trolling? If you really are mistaken, AvantGo is a company that makes PalmOS and PocketPC web browsers, and bundles them with a service that downloads web pages into your device when you sync with your desktop. AvantGo makes no hardware at all - certainly not a wireless modem for the Handspring.

    pt

  • Re:Visor vs. Palm - Batman Factor (Score:4)

    by xtal ( 49134 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @10:00AM (#873131)

    If you're comparing the III series to the Visor, they have roughly the same BF - e.g. how stupid you look wearing them on your belt. So, all other things equal, I'd have to say hands down the visor whoops the pants off the IIIseries, especially since you can get nifties like modules to do I/O, hopefully bluetooth, maybe even 802.11 someday.

    Now, the Palm V series are the pinnacle of handheld engineering right now IMHO due to the incredibly low batman factor. The belt clip-on case doesn't make you look like a tool, and it's actually light enough that you can just put it in your pocket. The WinCE devices and other's just can't win due to the high BF: You can't carry them EVERYWHERE. Which, I think is the point of a handheld device..

    Batman factor is especially important if you've already got one or two things on your belt; I usually have my startac and a leatherman, so my BF is pretty high. :)

    For the record; I own a Palm Pro, 1 Meg, use it every day, and don't wear it on my belt. I can't decide between a visor and a Palm V, but since I have a vaio already for I/O, I'll probably end up with a V. They're sweeeet. I can't seem to kill my old US Robotics Pro though, despite not bothering to put it in a case, not bothering with screen protectors, etc etc, it won't die. Damnit. :)

  • Re:dear god. (Score:3)

    by generic-man ( 33649 ) on Monday August 07, 2000 @09:19AM (#873138) Homepage Journal
    The original Pilot was renamed to PalmPilot, and then eventually Palm, because of a lawsuit from Pilot pens. They claimed that they had been using the name "Pilot" for an office supply for longer, and that there might be confusion.

    Ironically, Pilot Pens now makes a series of accessories [pentopia.com] for Palm and other organizers.
  • The visor looks like a pretty neat toy for a lot less money. Does anyone have experience with it?
  • translucent color case of the visor might be cool for kids, but the plastic breaks easier and the buttons are crappy

    In case you didn't notice, you can get a visor in plain old black plastic. I just happen to have one in my pocket right now. Granted, titanium or polished aluminum would be cooler, I haven't had a problem with the plastic yet.
  • For those people who might be considering buying a new model Palm (or any model Palm at all), I've written a couple of shopping guides: the first is an overview of all available models [themestream.com]; the second is a discussion of what features to look for [themestream.com].

    I've also written opinion pieces on the M100 [themestream.com] (my opinion: uglier than heck!) and the Claudia Schiffer Palm Vx [themestream.com] (my opinion: why???).

    (Full disclosure: Yes, they are Themestream [themestream.com] articles.)
    --

  • The only thing that the VIIx adds is more memory, according to Palm's press release [palm.com]. So take the experiences of having a Palm VII and multiply times 4.
    ------
    James Hromadka

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