First Look At The New Palms 167
Jason Prini writes: "Take a look at ZDNET for pics of the new Palm pilots." They talk about the wireless models, as well as the new entry level models to compete more with Visor (which feature 25% smaller screens, but only a $150 price). I find it amusing that they offer changable color face plates (ala those Nokia phones).
Re: Batteries (Score:1)
Refrag
Re:It's hideous! (Score:1)
And a 25% smaller screen? That's just not going to be very useful to people.
It's for kids.
The current 73 dpi display was designed for 40 year old aging eyeballs. The youth market will have no problems with a smaller 90+ dpi display as long as the contrast is reasonable.
For some kids, a display too small for their parents to easily read over their shoulder could even be a selling point.
Re:Oops. hit submit too soon (Score:1)
Point the second: Peer pressure does NOT constitute force. Nobody MAKES you do anything. They may make you think it's cool to have a polka-dot speckledy phone, but the purchaser still bears full and final responsibility for the purchase. "But my friend made me!" didn't work when I was in elementary school, and it certainly doesn't apply in consumer electronics.
Point the third: Do you see the parallel? Just because it's available doesn't mean you HAVE to buy it. If you buy a Palm M100, and don't buy a fashion faceplate, nobody is going to come to your door in the middle of the night.
Point the fourth: Despite the fact that my point was couched in barbed words (as much for humorous effect as anything else), you have not yet successfully explained how Palm selling little hunks of plastic forces you to buy little hunks of plastic. I wouldn't concede MY personal sovereignty to ANYBODY, least of all some faceless corporation that happens to make cool PDA's (I love my Palm III). Take responsibility for your own choices, and I guarantee that it will make you a happier person. (This is not meant to imply that you or anybody you know is unhappy, merely that in this individual's experience, which correlates well with logical thinking about the way the world works, personal responsibility leads to personal satisfaction. YMMV, no purchase necessary, no warrantee express or implied...)
Re-reading my posts, I realize they were a bit pointier than I had originally intended. For that, I apologize. I am seriously interested, however, in understanding this notion being put forth that options are a bad thing, and should not be sold.
/. is not the target market (Score:1)
Re:It's hideous! (Score:1)
A 25% smaller screen isn't really a problem, as long as the resolution is the same.
The problem with these is, the graffiti-area will also be 25% smaller, which will make it harder to use. (I sometimes have trouble writing on my IIIe)
Re:Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:1)
I bought a Palm III last year, on ebay. Things Palm has to do to get me to buy another one:
Lower price - compare the functionality to a CE device. Mind you, I'm never going to buy one of those peices of crap, nor do I want or need that kind of functionality in a Palm, but there's no justification for the price.
Smaller form-factor; baby, if you can put the features of the III (upgradability, accessories, backwards compatability) into the V's form-factor, you'll have a winner. Forget color! Only ONE reason I can think of for color, and that's maps, and for that, you really need gobs more memory. Really. Even the V is really too big for most people to conveniently carry around, but DON'T shrink the screen. ultimately, a credit-card form-factor would be best, like those wallet calculators - only make the screen the size of the whole thing.
User-replacable writing pad; I wasn't clued into the fact that I needed to put a piece of scotch tape over the writing area of my Palm III. End result: scratched-up screen, Palm asking to take my device for 3 weeks and bill me $100 to replace a peice of
Functionality? The desktop software sucks. You need a sketch-pad software so people can sketch quick diagrams or maps. That's a gimme, not a value-add. 160x160 is insufficient. 320x320? getting there. 640x640? We have the technology, we can rebuild him, the price-point is already there. I also think that there should be MUCH more pager integration going on, with a wider variety of vendors. I'm a gadget guy, I love gadgets, but at some point, clipping more things to my belt than Batman becomes tiresome - I'm sick of carrying a pager AND a palm-pilot, and there are so many cool things that could be done with integrating a text-pager, fuck the internet, that's lame. Just let me download stock quotes, weather, and news every hour like my text pager, automatically, from a satellite. Why is that so hard?
Drop functionality;
Dude, the email feature is weak. Unless you can provide a viable competitive email client on the PC side to Outlook, the current offering sucks. There isn't enough memory to store my emails consistently without jamming my synchs, and composing email on the Palm is pretty pointless if I can't send, and paying for a Palm VII with monthly service fee just isn't worth being able to email. I save email for my desktop. If you could include a decent email client with your desktop software, integrate it with the schdule stuff, like Outlook does, make it 100% outlook compatible so I can use it, and still function with the others in my office who use Outlook, and synch all that to my Palm, that had enough memory, and enough resolution to actually display enough text on screen, that would be cool. But until you do that, it's useless, why bother?
In short, I'm unexited by Palm, but it's still by far, the best solution to the personal info management problem there is.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
Re:New Palms (Score:2)
Well, actually, a higher screen resolution would be required too.
Right now, the Palms are really locked-in to 160x160 resolution. Someday, they are going to have to crack out of the 160x160 box.
If I were Palm/Handspring, I would be prototyping new units with 360x360 resolution, and a backwards-compatibility mode for older apps that treats each 2x2 square as a single pixel, thus providing 160x160. And I want one of those!
Long-term, someday we will be carrying palmtops that have 1200dpi resolution, and really excellent contrast... in other words, we will have palmtops whose displays are about as readable as paper is. When that day comes, I want a box the size of a paperback book, waterproof, with enough storage to contain a whole bunch of books.
Any guesses how long I must wait?
steveha
Re:what an UN-drastic improvement (Score:1)
(probably fucking Bill Walker's fault again)
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
Re:Smaller screens (Score:1)
160x160, same as any other Palm device. Most Palm devices are 2-bit greyscale (== 4 shades of grey), and the IIIc has 256 colors.
The Palm V showed how readable and usable a Palm device can be with a physically smaller screen. Compared to previous Palm devices, the V's screen has much better contrast and is much easier to read; the slightly smaller pixels tend to make it look a little bit sharper, which doesn't hurt.
Therefore I predict that the new Palm devices are using a screen the same size as the Palm V. Most likely, the same exact screen as the V; that way they can order them in larger quantities and maybe get the price down a little.
Re:Size *does* matter. (Score:1)
I suggest you try ScreenWrite. This is a Palm extension that lets you write Graffiti in the whole screen display area, instead of in the little Graffiti box at the bottom. Shareware, $5 to register it.
http://www.inkverse.com/screenwrite.html> [inkverse.com]
steveha
Re:ebay palm auctions (Score:1)
Re:Size *does* matter. (Score:1)
The Anoto pen.. (www.anoto.com)
>>"Somebody makes a thing that's got a pad of paper, that you write on with a real pen, and the information gets downloaded to your palm -- the palm docks on the other side, the whole thing is like a little leatherbound notebook. I can't remember who makes it."
Re:what an UN-drastic improvement (Score:2)
They shouldn't. I suspect that the older Gameboy games are written like Apple ][ and Commodore 64 games were: they depend on the clock speed of the system, and if you speed up the system, the games run too fast and are unplayable.
Possibly the action games on the Palm are written like that, but I doubt it; we already have a substantial speed difference between the basic Palm models and the Handspring Visors.
Actually, the 2600 used a 6502-related microcontroller, the 6510 I believe. Contemplate, for a moment, a chip even less capable than the 6502! (The 6502 can address 64KB, and I believe the 6510 can only address 4KB.)
The Palm devices all run on a Motorola 68000-family microcontroller, the Dragonball. When Motorola releases new, faster versions of that chip, you will see new, faster Palm devices.
But keep in mind: one of the best things about the Palm devices is that they don't suck the batteries dry too quickly. Moore's Law stands mute on low-power devices. Expect even low-power devices to get quicker and better, but don't expect them to improve as fast as desktop CPU chips.
steveha
Re:ebay palm auctions (Score:1)
George
Re:Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:1)
Hate to be pedantic (
Sell the sizzle, not the steak (Score:1)
Simple. "Power" users, who read SlashDot, want a Palm that does a lot, and generally know what they are talking about, don't want a IIIe, they want a IIIxe, a Vx, the new VIIx, a TRGpro, etc. PalmStation readers are not their target audience. The IIIe was/is most popular with people who just want "one of those 'Palm' things" to track their friends' phone numbers, and maybe their shopping list. They want a fancy organizer, not a Palmtop computer or communications device.
Palm realizes that. So they are taking their low-end products and saying "these people want sizzle, so let's give them sizzle." It sells Palms on the "funky colors are cool" crowd, including many, many teens. At only $150, it's cheap enough for them to afford as a fancy, high-end organizer. Then, 12 months from now when about half of those people realize that they do need more than 2 MB of RAM, or a larger screen, or what not, lo and behold there are the higher-end Palms like the IIIxe and IIIc ready and waiting for them to upgrade, but they loose nothing because their existing addressbook is perfectly compatable, any add-on programs they have will work, and the learning curve is virtually zero. Just a few hundred dollars for that upgraded device, junior.
As a wise man once said, "Get them while they're young." The M100 is an "on-ramp" product ("Gateway Palm?"). And I think it has a decent chance of succeeding as precisely that; a way to get people into the PalmOS market, so they can be sold future devices next year. The M100 is of absolutely no value to me, I'm perfectly happy with my TRGpro. But in terms of getting high school aged kids (or high-flying execs who would like to think they are high school aged kids) into the PalmOS world, which means creating more long term customers, Palm does know what they are doing.
--GrouchoMarx
Will this drive up the used market? (Score:2)
I don't mind a move into a new market demographic, but please oh please continue to make and sell the present models.
I may have to go out and try to find a IIIxe or a Vx soon or start shopping for one on ebay.
Also, I haven't seen anyone address the wireless issue for those of us that don't live in a big city. The VII is right off my list. There is no wireless network here (Flagstaff, AZ) so the price difference is just not worth it. Maybe with a bluetooth adapter to talk to my cell...
And Palm, where are the slots? Expandability is going to be essential.
I see this as an iterim solution on the way to slots and bluetooth wireless. I'll pass thanks.
Wot? No GSM? (Score:2)
I've heard it said before that US companies don't understand the European mobile market - particularly SMS services, and this helps confirm that theory. Mobile phone usage in the UK has now hit 50%, and this is behind other European countries like Italy.
If Palm don't do something soon, they're going to lose out to other manufacturers, and that's a pity, because I firmly believe theirs is the best PDA product out there. But for GSM PDAs, the new Ericsson R380's looking pretty good...
what an UN-drastic improvement (Score:3)
I mean ok, 8 megs of RAM instead of 2 is nice (just like how Gameboy games got bigger size-wise with the advent of cartridges that hold more memory), but is the processor any beefier? Is there some correlation between hand-held devices and a power increase that is more sluggish than Moore's law would predict? I had it in my head that it should actually grow faster on new kinds of devices, but copmpact devices (Palms, mp3 players, videogame systems) seem to not get beefy as fast as they should. Am I crazy?
sig:
true colors (Score:2)
so now the question, why are these new models better? IMHO if they were software they would be a
Re:really stupid joke (Score:2)
--Shoeboy
Re:Clarification (Score:1)
What I really want is... (Score:1)
And just to anticipate the objection, I've tried and tried to get my life down to just using the palm, but nothing beats a quick "note to self" written the old fashioned way.
Uh these things suck (Score:1)
Re:Clarification (Score:1)
--
Re:Batteries (Score:1)
On one hand, it is very nice not to have to buy and trash AAA's. But OTOH, they do drain - or report needing to be changed anyway - much faster than Alkalines. I average about a week and rotate among 4 NiMH's I have. I like not throwing away the alkalines, and I save money too not having to buy them each month. I paid about $20 for 4 AAA's and a charger.
I also have a digital camera (Oly D340l) where I use NiMH as well and as you pointed out, the performance of NiMH vis-a-vis Alkaline is 3-5 times better with the NiMH's.
With that experience, I expected to see decent NiMH performance with the Palm, but guess that is not to be. If anyone can explain why NiMH outperform Alk. in a DigiCam, but the situation is reveresed in a Palm, I'd appreciate it.
Re:bleh. (Score:1)
know where i can get one of those?
Actually, I'd like to get a whole bunch of them. With wireless communication so I can set 'em up as a Beowolf cluster. :-)
Spontaneous Palm-size distributed computing. The mind boggles at the possibilities.
I think I'll make that my new .sig
Re:What good is this? (Score:1)
Actually I will be. (Score:1)
And if they were, the price listed would not equal the sum of the parts? BZZZT - poor thinking.
> This'll be another example of a business taking
> advantage of gullible consumers...
Which is exactly what gullible folks are for. They are there for the rest of us to use to our own advantage. I mean really, why else do they exist? Why does anyone have the ability or motivation to observe, learn, make rational decisions, and thus become less gullible if not in order to improve their own position relative to those that remain more gullible?
> and you obviously won't be on the side of the
> business (you clearly have no understanding of
> that).
BZZZT - poor thinking again. On the contrary, I am a stock holder and I will most certainly enjoy the profits reaped from the fertile fields of the gullible and spineless fashion followers. I sincerely hope that you buy at least one of each color face plate, even if you choose not to buy the new M100. Do it just so that you can one up your office roomie and tell him that you have the complete collection! It doesn't matter if you don't like the color. The selection is there. You don't have to pick just one. If such decisions are too much for you, just get it over with and buy them all. You'll feel better afterwards.
>Grow a brain.
Don't grow a brain.
Don't open your eyes.
Don't develop a spine.
You are a fine profit source just as you are.
Hey!, I've got some M$ stock. Would you like to buy another copy of w2k? Perhaps a 3com NIC? How about another processor? You know both AMD and intel have new models over 1GHz. How about a new ***DESIGNER*** PowerPC..."Ooooh a cube. Isn't it cute!"
!!! (Score:1)
---------------
Re:Wot? No GSM? (Score:1)
Ericsson just announced the R520: It has bluetooth, IR and GPRS, and looks extremely good (except for that DAMN antenna) It looks like the prefect comanion for the Palm.
FURst (Score:1)
Yay noise!
Meet the new Palm, same as the old Palm (Score:2)
Style wise they where going in the right direction with the PalmV (which I bought). All the new models (excluding the Vx) have been cheap plastic steps backwards. Making my "same or better" garantee almost worthless. (When "better" to them is "worse" to me).
Technolgy wise, they are beeing too conservative. Now, I like the simplicity of the Palm, and I don't think they should take the WinCE road, but there are tech improvements that could be made, and not just hardware ones (which could affect price or battery life), but programming ones.
How about adding "hyperlinks" to the OS so that I can insert a link to an address book record into my diary, or to-do list, and vice versa. Now *that* would be cool.
Thad
bleh. (Score:3)
Skins (Score:2)
This is cool. (Score:2)
========
Stephen C. VanDahm
Re:Batteries (Score:2)
Sure, I've been using rechargables for a long time - they are definitely worth it. I have a total of four rechargable ones (+ some normal ones for backup, which I've never needed to use). The batteries might not last as long as normal ones, but with Palm III it's a non-issue. The lifetime varies from a week (CPU-intensive/backlight) to about a month.
So, it is beneficial to use rechargables in a Palm, although not as much as with high-draw devices.
Re:New Palms (Score:1)
Perhaps I was unclear. I don't want a Palm PDA the size of a paperback book; I want a gadget for reading books, that is the size of a paperback book.
My Handspring Visor IX or whatever can have the paper-like display, too, but it doesn't have to be big or waterproof. I want a dedicated bookreader that is as good as a book in every way, and waterproof besides.
steveha
Re:Wot? No GSM? (Score:1)
Oops. hit submit too soon (Score:1)
Re:Size *does* matter. (Score:2)
"Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
Re:Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:1)
Cute leather cover that turns the unit on
So get the hard case. It offers even more protection than the flip cover on the Palm III
Maybe you need to hold it like it was designed to be held then! And wipe your hands before using it.
Palm III: Upgradable
If you want to play about with a soldering iron. Funnily enough that's not why I got a PDA.
Well, I don't know about you, but I will take a Dilbert Palm over a Calvin Klein Palm any day! (Palms are mainly about function, not form.)
Fine. I think you'll find most people will take the device that is well designed on the software side, and on the design size. The Palm III/Visor and the Palm V run the same software. Which makes the only difference the look, and the Palm V wins out every time.
Batteries (Score:2)
Anyone know if you get a similar benefit in low draw devices like the Palm? I've been looking at PDAs, but after having my old Velo I (WinCE) tune Channel One while I was on the way to an interview, I've been reluctant to make the investment.
-
bukra fil mish mish
-
Monitor the Web, or Track your site!
Meet the new palm... (Score:1)
Re: Batteries (Score:1)
New Palm? Really? (Score:1)
It pretty much does what I want it to, be a convienent way to track dates, phone numbers and passwords....Ya know the obvious things a PDA is supposed to do. Besides looking at some of these new styles, it makes me want to hold onto my personal longer.
Surprise? (Score:3)
I'm not surprised at this one bit. The Palm Pilot has become the new tech toy on the block, and it would naturally follow the path of business-oriented tech evolution - to be stylish.
Business people are snatching Palm Pilots up like crazy, and many want to add their own dash of individuality. It's a given that some want to be chic while being productive. (i.e.: The Nokia Faceplate.)
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Thank you, God (Score:4)
Re:what an UN-drastic improvement (Score:1)
The 6507 is in fact a 6502 that can only address 4KB of memory. The 6510 is a 6502 with an extra 8-bit I/O register.
My source: http://www.atarihq.com/danb/6502page.htm [atarihq.com]
Yeah... 6502, 6503; whatever it takes...
steveha
Re:bleh. (Score:1)
Re:Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:2)
Re:Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:1)
A pig?
Compared to what?
Maybe an HP Wince device might be piggish, but a palm or visor? Yeesh. Come on now.
We're talking something smaller than a deck of cards. Any version. Pig is a Newton. Now relegated to swiping cards at tradeshows.
But any palm works fine. All this is a matter of taste.
Re:Ick. Ugly. (What were they thinking???) (Score:1)
Dude! Don't do that. I cracked his machine and the prick came and trashed MY computer. Vindictive little fucker.
Ryan
Re:Meet the new Palm, same as the old Palm (Score:1)
DateBk4 [pimlicosoftware.com] does this. Would be more useful in the OS, admittedly (link diary to an Expense/QMate record, for example).
--
Hell hath no fury like a pissed-off Glaswegian.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:No: small is better (Score:2)
How'd this happen? Fall of maybe 3Com onto lino, out of a pocket. I can't believe 3Com never thought that sort of thing would happen when they designed it...
What it really makes me wonder, though, is why use glass? Surely perspex would be lighter, just as rigid yet less fragile? And scratching isn't an issue as there's a separate screen protector on top of the glass anyway... Or, for that matter, why design the glass and LCD to be totally inseparable. Makes it a non-economic repair and absolutely guarantees I'm leaving PalmOS.
It's getting replaced with a Psion 5. Bigger screen, easier data entry - I just got sick of having to do too much in Graffiti. And, from what I can see, no glass in that screen.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:1)
The III is a pig?
A pig?
Compared to what?
Compared to my V. I had the Palm Pro originally, looked at the III but the case was still too thick and bulky, and it was still plastic and creaked if I pressed on it. The V is thinner, smaller and "solid"
I agree that when compared to a Newton or most of the CE devices, the Palms are about as un-pigly as they come. But I was comparing amongst versions of the Palm.
Re: (Score:1)
You like Graphiti, then? (Score:2)
Verus what? Graphiti? Where you have to write things out one letter at a time in a tiny little box? After using a Newton, this aspect of the Palm experience immediately turned me off to them. I've been trying to become interested ever since. I don't think most people really realize that with a Newton, you could write anywhere on the screen and have the thing recognize it.
I honestly don't know what you mean about the handwriting recognition. I thought the MessagePad 120 did an exceptional job of recognizing my handwriting. What I will grant you is that the Newton was too big and too expensive. If Palm had just taken the Newton and shrunk it and reduced the price, I would have been onboard right away. But I feel the Palm had a significantly less efficient UI than the Newton, large due to the constraints of Graphiti.
- Scott
------
Scott Stevenson
A real untapped market, (Score:1)
-J
What next? Wood Grain? (Score:1)
Guess I just have unrealistic expectations.
New Palms (Score:1)
Re:Size *does* matter. (Score:1)
Re:bleh. (Score:1)
All you kids don't need fancy schmancy portable devices. Just relax and sit down at a desk to do your computing. For real computing, punch up a punch of cards and go down to the nearest VAX building!
Re:Batteries (Score:2)
My sony camera (DSC-30) gets over 2 hours of runtime on a full charge with the LCD screen on. Those infolithium batteries rule!
Using flash will reduce it, but otherwise it doesn't really matter how many pix you take during that time. On one outing I took 48 shots and still had about 80% of the battery life remaining.
I imagine that in a Palm you'd get similar benefits-- however, Alkalines will last a looong time in a Palm anyway (without backlight at least) because like you said, they're low draw.
But with lithium batteries and a charging cradle, it would probably never run out of juice. NiMH works almost as well, but less expensively.
FWIW, I still am using my original US Robotics Pilot 100, upgraded from 128 to 512k! I replace the batteries about every 3 months, though it doesn't get used a whole lot-- just name and number lookups.
Re:So anyways (Score:2)
Re:This is cool. (Score:1)
The only problem I could forsee is that it would have to have a seperate power source, because a tazer needs 9VDC. But I think it is possible and could be relativly small (being your probably only going to want about 10,000 volts). Also, what do you think the best way of triggering it would be? Personally I think it would be best placed somewhere your index finger can hit it from, that way you can hold it casually and shock someone, or you could grab it like a real tazer.
Hmm... well I think I'll start on it after work tommorow. If I ever get a nice looking (and working!) version, I'll make some pages on my website dedicated to it and submit it to
--
Logic check... (Score:2)
So it is your belief, then, that 100% of Palm's core engineering department was deployed to put colored cases on the devices? And you do not think that Palm is continuing to develop technological advances in parallel with the redesigned casings? I hope you're not one of those people that feel that every single device, OS and application in the world should have the visual appeal of a lead pipe. Heaven forbid we think of humans as visual beings. Careful not to make the industrial design too bold or creative, it might steal cycles from the processor.
BTW: What's up with the car industry? Why all the color choices? Isn't VW just telling their competition that they've run out of technological ideas? Why can't all cars just be beige and shaped like a 80's Volvo?
- Scott
------
Scott Stevenson
Not see-through (Score:2)
None of the pictures of ZDNet depict see-through cases.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Charcoal is the only logical choice (Score:2)
Exactly! What would people would say if you had a PDA that was in a color other than black? Just think about what a metallic blue or gold case suggests about you to the casual onlooker. I won't even mention anything about the silver case. Yikes.
Black casings forever, I say!
I think Palm is making a mistake in playing Handspring's game with the "iMac" principle of computer design, which seems to be "cheerfully colored case == better!"
Again, agreed. I definitely subscribe more to the "Model-T" principle of computer design.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Re:Meet the new Palm, same as the old Palm (Score:1)
>I can insert a link to an address book record
>into my diary, or to-do list, and vice versa.
>Now *that* would be cool
You might want to take a look at Linker [digitalglyph.com], which allows you to create hyperlinks to anything on your pilot that you can find with the SEARCH function. It's not perfect, but it's really neat.
Oh please, they weren't gods gift! (Score:3)
I had the dubious pleasure of owning a MP120 5 or 6 years ago. It wasn't the 2100, which was supposed to have repaired some of these problems, but it wasn't the first model, either. My palm does a lot more for me that's useful than any of the messagepads ever could, and while they were a nifty piece of technology at the time, I can understand why Jobs gave them the axe. For example(s):
All of those relegated newton to the niche market, and that's not what apple wanted. Had they have done more research a la palm, we might have something here.
What palm should do is work on getting the processor speed up without hurting battery life too much. This would enable a lot of applications that aren't possible right now, like handwriting (although graffiti does well for what it was intended to do). Color isn't important. If the screen went from 160x160 to 320x320 - whoooeee, baby. Or, paper white on black. I remember those notebooks back in the day.
This wasn't meant to flame anyone, but just put things in perspective. IM(ns)HO I think the vaio and the palm are a superior combination.
Re:Batteries (Score:2)
Any of the rechargables will work well.
The self discharge rate (leakage current) of NiMh batteries is pretty high (something like 1% per day), so in a power frugal device like the palm your batteries are often leaking more current then the device is using.
I just swap batteries weekly with either NiMh or rechargable alkalines, and have had great luck. NiMh have more power fresh out of the chargers, rechargable alkalines store better in the backpack or desk drawer. Both likely work out about the same in terms of bang for the buck.
Thomas Distributing [thomasdistributing.com] has a nice collection of good NiMh cells and chargers for sale at good prices, and has a good collection of tech info as well.
NiMh can't be beat for my digital camera, but for the Palm I would probably use the semi-disposable rechargable alkalines.
The Palm OS also has a backdoor for setting the battery type for the low battery warnings and bar graph.... enter [command] (a fish standing on it's tail), a dot, and the number 7 in notepad and a little message will pop out telling you the battery type the device is currently set for (different battery types have different discharge curves, none are linear).
Bill
Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:2)
looks like it was designed by an engineer
Well, I don't know about you, but I will take a Dilbert Palm over a Calvin Klein Palm any day! (Palms are mainly about function, not form.)
I do agree that the Palm V is smaller (thinner). And that is one of its benifits.
I contrast the devices like this:
Palm III: Upgradable
Palm V: Sealed, upgradable if you void warranty
Winner: Palm III
Palm III: Hard Plastic Cover, offers excellent protection
Palm V: Cute leather cover that turns the unit on when in your pocked due to bad design!
Winner: Palm III
Palm III: Long Life on 2 AAA batteries
Palm V: Rechargable
Winner: Palm V (Unless on long trip away from base)
Palm III: Flash upgradable
Palm V: Nope
Winner: Palm III
Palm III: Ugly, but does not slide out of my hand
Palm V: Digs into the edge of my hand and has a habit of sliding out of my hand and plummeting to the floor.
Winner: Palm III
Palm III: Has large number of PDA accessories avalible
Palm V has large number of PDA accessories avalible (pretty much) only from palm.
Palm III: Original Hot Sync contacts, compatible with nice toys like digital compasses and GPS'es
Palm V: Hot Sync contacts not compatible (won't even sync on an old Palm/Palm III cradle!!!!!)
Winner: Palm III
And the winner of this bout by completley biased judges is:
THE PALM III SERIES AND FORM FACTOR!!!
Re:It's hideous! (Score:2)
One of my friends, who works at a prestigious private school where the staff was given Palm Vs, noted that one of the Palm's great advantages over the Visor was that it looked more professional--by comparison, the Visor looked like some kind of hand-held computer game.
Well, even the Visor has it all over those things. Ugh!
And a 25% smaller screen? That's just not going to be very useful to people.
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802.11 Wireless, anyone? (Score:2)
This is a step down (Score:3)
Personally, I'd rather have a Palm Palm V when they reduce the price (or discontinue and find them clearanced) down to $150. That way I can have my pretty nice-looking screen (after you install the hack to make the backlight look normal instead of reversed as by default), built-in lithium ion batteries (incredibly preferable over alkaline or do-it-yourself NiMH), and a convenient dock. The changable plastic pieces don't do anything for me, I kinda like the silver Palm V myself (why don't they just offer different colors but not make them changable? Everyone loses those things anyway).
Anyway, I hope the generation after this one provides an improvement over what we already have.
Eww, ugly or what? (Score:2)
as for screen real-estate... they should concentrate on putting more buttons onto the screen, this way:
a) the buttons can be redefined according to the context (what app, etc you're in)
b) the buttons can be removed altogether if the app you're in doesn't need them, freeing up more screen space
a good place for some proper buttons would be on the side of the Palm, where your index finger and thumb lay when you hold it in the palm of your hand - these could be used as Ok/Cancel, Yes/No, Forward/Back buttons depending on the application.
It seems instead of actually improving the interface, they just want to put it in different coloured boxes.
I see they also haven't included Springboard module support, the expandability that made the Visor so great. If more companies use it, it would be a fantastic standard to upgrade PDAs by. But no, profits come before usefulness.
sad.
Re:Palm III Vs Palm V..... FIGHT!!!! (Score:2)
I don't know where you're getting your data.
Palm V: Cute leather cover that turns the unit on when in your pocked due to bad design!
Get PalmV ButtonGuard v2 [sergem.net]. It turns off the button interrupts so even if you press it for a week the Palm won't drain the battery any harder. Much better improvement over the AlwaysOff hack.
Also about that leather case: I've had no trouble with it. It seems to displace the force against the screen very well. You could always get a PalmV RhinoSkin [rhinoskin.com]. I had one for my Palm Professional. Love it. Want one for the V.
Palm III: Flash upgradable
Palm V: Nope
Winner: Palm III
My PalmV seems to be flash upgradeable. Went from 3.0 to 3.3 (I think those were the version #s), and I have about 800K of apps in flash.
Palm V: Digs into the edge of my hand and has a habit of sliding out of my hand and plummeting to the floor.
You must have a very strange way of holding it, or you hold it too tight and have sweaty palms. I've never dropped my V because of the form factor. My Palm Pro, OTOH...
Palm V: Hot Sync contacts not compatible (won't even sync on an old Palm/Palm III cradle!!!!!)
Do you want backwards compatibility with everything? You can get a small device that connects your V serial port to any III-style accessory. Can't remember the name offhand but I believe someone has already replied with the link
For me, the V won. I needed something that was sturdy ((thin) aluminum beats plastic IMO), thin (the III is a pig) and wouldn't keep eating batteries. I get about 3 weeks out of my PalmV. I use it for appointments [iambic.com], phone #s [standalone.com], a programmable calculator (sorry can't find the link, it's by Gary Desrosiers), notes [handshigh.com] (and also BrainForest [aportis.com]), DopeWars [pdaguy.com], diagnostic platform for the equipment I design [benshaw.com], password storage [zetetic.net], billing [iambic.com]... It's a well used device.
BTW: All the apps mentioned which are replacements for standard PalmOS apps use the standard databases so I don't lose compatibility. Kudos to Iambic and Standalone Software for that feature, it was a big deciding factor when I chose their products.
Sounds like a Newton (Score:3)
A friend of mine recently picked up a color Palm. I played around with it this past weekend and basically found the color to be more of a "wow, look at me" factor. I was really disappointed in the display, each pixel has a black outline which made the image appear as if viewed thru a screen. Also the screen resolution of the Palm seriously limits what you can do (the palm is 160x160, the MP2100 is 320x480).
I guess I'll stick with the Newton, haven't seen anything better come along yet.
Palm VII's battery life is great as-is (Score:3)
I think the month of solid use I get out of a pair of AAA alkalines on a VII is just fine; granted, it's not as good as the 6-8 weeks I got on a Palm Pro or III. And it's much more convenient than having to worry about buying weird batteries or having to carry around a cradle when you travel just so you can charge the thing.
It really did need more RAM, though; thank goodness they've bumped it to 8MB. As far as I'm concerned, that should be the norm for anything they sell for $200 or more at this point.
Disappointing Communications Model (Score:3)
But this connectivity model is for the birds. The recurring costs are high, the PQA infrastructure is not an open standard (as far as I can tell) and it's too easy to go over the limit. The model of the VII just doesn't work for me (I like the design and size of the V better anyway).
What we need is something the size and weight of teh V with color with full net access for $15 / month (how much data could you really transport with that damned stylus). The US would really do well to get off our collective butts, scrap our analog cell phone network, finish building some of the digital networks, and then allow them to be used for packet-switched data.
Smaller screen? (Score:2)
I guess they are trying to compete with Handspring on cost, but I think they missed the boat. These things look ugly, have smaller screens, and are only marginally better than entry level Visor (I understand the M100 has more RAM). We're supposed to think its that much better?
No, size doesn't matter. (Score:3)
RESOLUTION matters a bit more than size to me. More pixels == more information. Bigger size != more pixels (well, not necessarily). Or maybe this isn't true for LCDs?
baldeepCool! (Score:2)
I can't wait until 2010, when palm announces the palm MMMIX, 10 megs of memory, a new screen size and a completely different case, YAY!
Geoff
New Palms (Score:3)
marv
*sigh* Still not the same... (Score:5)
Tried Palm. Just not the same. Tried CE. Puked on my shoes and had to buy new ones. Tried some of the off-brand PDAs with teensy no-name embedded "operating systems" and had a good laugh. After it all, dug out and looked at my MP2100 with its cracked screen and bawled like a baby...
Don't get me wrong... Palms/Visors/&co. are light and cute and run a long time on batteries... But they're also impossible to read, inelegant when it comes to handwriting, low-res, low-powered, and just plain primitive.
Smaller screens (Score:2)
Smaller, eh? (Score:3)
Probably the new tiny palm is going to be a dud, though. There are ergonomic issues with reducing the area. It's a bitch to design software to fit on the screens already. Thickness is a different story. I'd like to see something like the IIIxe with a rechargeable battery. Most of the III series thickness is to accomodate the AAA batteries.
These are ENTRY LEVEL models, folks! (Score:3)
With the M100, Palm is repositioning its entry point. Obviously the cell phone custom-cover idea is carrying over to treat this as yet another consumer electronics device. The features set is pretty much established: you can hit 80% of the market with 20% of the functionality. Make it smaller, put on bright colors, keep the price low, and you've instantly targeted a new demographic.
The Palm has amply proven itself in the business market, and they're clearly not abandoning that with their high-end models. The VIIx (mentioned later in the article, but not pictured) will up the ante for wireless PDAs with more RAM and custom software. Personally I think this is just a lot of experimentation since Bluetooth is going to be the real future in this area, but there is a market for the well-connected businessman or geek.
People are saying things like "gosh, same old Palm, just with colors". Well, yes. It's a proven product that they are now trying to expand the market for. "It's the iMacification of everything". Well, get used to it. Most people don't care about the Megahertz or the Level II cache on their motherboard. The iMac does what they want for a good price and it looks attractive in a den. But the iMac hasn't made towers or big beige boxen disappear, has it? This M100 isn't going to hurt the PDA market at all. In fact, this will be the starter PDA for a lot of people, who will later realize they need wireless modems and web-browsing-on-the-go (or whatever). But a lot more people are willing to experiment at the $150 price point than spend $500+ on yet another electronic toy that turns out to be useless to them.
Also, some people have complained about the wedge at the bottom -- don't forget this is a smaller size case. I haven't used a Palm V... series so I can't comment on how it feels. I do think that it would actually be easier to hold if the bulge were at the top, but maybe that's just me.
As for replacing the IIIe and competing with the Visor, I think they have a good chance. I've bet on Handspring, mainly on the strength of their expansion technology, but the long delays in getting Springboard modules released is getting frustrating (e.g. still no GPS unit; only two games, both golf!). I was also hoping for more movement towards a high-end Visor. I think the M100 is clearly a much stronger competitor than the IIIe ever was, and if it had been out last fall it would have been a more difficult decision for me.
Get ready for the M100 to be under a LOT of Christmas trees.
P.S. M100 is also a nice spiral galaxy [stsci.edu], as well as a classic Mercedes Benz sedan [m-100.org]
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Ick. Ugly. (What were they thinking???) (Score:3)
I don't know what they are thinking with the bulbous bottom of that thing, The palm III series (I myself own a IIIx) tapers downwards at the bottom and thus it makes it comfortable in your hand.
The V series (which I truly dislike) has this stupid outward taper to the bottom, that digs a little edge into your hand. It also makes the thing harder to hold on to.
Palm makes good organizers, but they are going to be up against some stiff competition with the Visor, its just better designed. (Jeff Hawkins has still got it I guess...) Of course, we all know that the better product does not always win.
It either case it seems that the OS (palm) has already won, its just a debate over the form factor and the peripherals. (The Visor cartiges kick ass over the upgrade slots in a Palm.)
What good is this? (Score:4)
Pretty see-through colors don't increase useability. I'd prefer a better res. screen, a larger screen, or a 25 dollar lower price tag over pretty colors; but that's just me.
-Jer
Size *does* matter. (Score:5)
Clarification (Score:3)
The wording of this is slightly confusing. The new Palms have a 25% smaller screen and a $150 price. The Visors have a full-sized screen and start at $150.
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Re:Oops. hit submit too soon (Score:2)
Only a fool blindly excepts that free enterprise is a good thing. There are plenty of examples where it can be detrimental. Take health care for example. The US applies free enterprise here. Guess what, the US spends the highest proportion of GDP per capita than anybody else. Does that get them anywhere? No. Recent rankings from the WHO place American health care 39th in the world. American healthcare stinks if you happen fall ill between jobs. Free enterprise hasn't worked there. Another example is the environment. In an attempt to encourage free trade, the WTO will impose sanctions against any country that will not accept products due to their environmental un-friendliness. That is just stupid.
Don't apply such hard and fast rules to the world around you.
"When you make a product, and people want it, they give you money. There's no force involved."
That's not entirely true, and you know it. When an item becomes fashionable, there becomes a lot of peer pressure. Unless one shuns society completely, one can never be completely immune to social pressures such as fashion trends. In some parts of the world, successful marketing by Nokia has made their products major fasion accessories. There might not be any physical coercion, but that doesn't mean there isn't any. Free enterprise relies on psychological coercion. Otherwise, how would anybody learn about new products, or decide that they need one?
"I'm going to go out on a limb here. I bet you have a PC. Does anybody MAKE you buy every sound card on the market? "
Damn you! How did you guess that I have 23 sound cards?
"Say it with me. Providing options does not constitute coercion. Write it on the chalkboard 100 times. "
Adopting a patronising tone when you've already demonstrated your lack of intelligence only increases your image of stupidity and foolishness.
Re:Meet the new Palm, same as the old Palm (Score:2)
I think if palm were to take the palm 5, and make it with 8Meg of RAM (like the Vx) then add color screens, as well as built in wireless (like the palm VII), and color cases as well as an expansion slot on the side (instead of the top like the handsprings) They would have something really hot. Probably expensive too. Oh FYI the handspring has the IR port on the side which I felt made it hard to interface with. I tried transferring my business card to someone with a handspring and it was kind of clumsy.
send flames > /dev/null
Two important issues: (Score:2)
What Palm needs to do:
1) don't discontinue the old styles (remember "new Coke")
2) carefully engineer a new line that includes a faster cpu, more memory and color screen, but retains the form factor, long battery life and efficent OS that made Palm so popular in the first place. Also, stick with a standard peripheral connector so people don't lose their investment in addons if they upgrade.
We know WinCE sucks, but on a 200MHz cpu and 32MB of ram, it has room to suck and still deliver performance.
jcc
It's hideous! (Score:2)
really stupid joke (Score:5)
I told you it was a stupid joke.
--Shoeboy