Project Gizmo Challenges Skype 207
valmont writes "The Register is offering an interesting introduction to Project Gizmo, a new player in the Voice over IP field, poised to challenge Skype with its ability to interoperate with others thanks to the SIP protocol it complies to. Whereas Skype has selectively licensed usage of an API that offers limited insight into a closed protocol, a closed ecosystem solely controlled by one organization, the SIP protocol is open. Free open-source proxy/server implementations are sprouting up, and many developers are actively working on SIP clients. The Gizmo Project is the first to bring a truly-usable, user-friendly, cross-platform SIP client (Mac, Windows, Linux coming soon) to market. Meanwhile, theappleblog.com is already offering a Gizmo Project Wish-List to promote better interoperability between current and upcoming SIP providers, to make it more practical for users of disparate SIP clients to communicate with one another."
Project Gimzo? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Explanation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
Now, the real art is to retell a joke that reaches the less sensitive second wave, while not dishabituating the first wave who "got it" immediately. Puns are a reliable ploy.
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
Re:Explanation (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
Sad day, Sad day . . .
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
He's never watched the andy griffith show.
The first time I felt old though was when I was 23 - Warrant came to play in Okinawa, and I was all excited until my 18-year-old coworker blurted out, "Who's Warrant?"
Hand me my cane...
Re:Explanation (Score:3, Insightful)
There are 10 year olds who don't know the Michael Keaton Batman.
I remember seeing Terminator 2 in the theatre in 1991, the same year the babysitter that watches my kids was born. That's the same age difference between me and War of the Worlds (1953)
Madonna was 25 in 1983 (seems like yesterday for me). Jessica Simpson is 25 this year.
Scoot yourself and your cane over and we'll relish in memories of stories past.
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
Huh? It's Hadoken.. wtf is a hadoogin?
some lint (Score:2, Informative)
Re:some lint (Score:2)
Yeah, I've only seen Gremlins once, so I can't talk on any specifics, but I do remember the whole water/eat after midnight thing.
Re:Explanation (Score:2)
Note all the lame-ass joke recyclers out there: The reason why this joke is funny is that the main baddie in that movie was named 'Stripe'. Skype... Stripe. Now that you kn
Re:Project Gimzo? (Score:2)
Gizmo Interoperability (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Gizmo Interoperability (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Gizmo Interoperability (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Gizmo Interoperability (Score:2)
Spoken like someone who has never worked with stun. It helps, but it is by no means a panacea.
Re:Gizmo Interoperability (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Gizmo Interoperability (Score:2)
Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Linux? (Score:2)
Re:Linux? (Score:2)
Which part of Gizmo for Apple OS/X [gizmoproject.com] doesn't work for you? Sounds a lot like BSD to me.
Also see Ineen and P2P SIP (Score:5, Informative)
Ineen and Gizmo are still client-server SIP systems, but to truly compete with Skype, the IETF is working on P2P extensions to SIP [p2psip.org].
Re:Also see Ineen and P2P SIP (Score:2)
Conflict of "Gizmo" name? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Conflict of "Gizmo" name? (Score:2)
This is a program, and that's a hardware device.
Re:Conflict of "Gizmo" name? (Score:3, Informative)
"Indeed, Gizmo is even asking for suggestions on a "cooler" name under which to operate."
Re:Conflict of "Gizmo" name? (Score:2)
I would think so, since they are both in the same field. In fact, both being into VoIP, it's a fairly specific field - a lot narrower than what spawned the Apple Computers/Apple Records feud.
Re:Conflict of "Gizmo" name? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it a collision in the same market, though?
Given both Gizmo devices are used for VOIP, I'd worry about collision. While the actual "gizmo" differs, they both fill part of the VOIP solution.
BTW, I use SunRocket (replaced my home phone for $199 USD for unlimited service for 1 year) and their material highlights the
Re:Conflict of "Gizmo" name? (Score:2)
Another Michael Robertson project (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:3, Funny)
As if we needed any more evidence that VoIP will be sued out of existance.
Oh well, buy any stock he offers and sell at 400%.
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:2)
So for Michael the money is going to come for calls ending at regular phones. The platform is the telephone, not so much the computer.
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:2)
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:2)
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:2)
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:4, Interesting)
What about things like integrating with email software, so I can click on a contact and automatically call them, create video conferences as easily as I can an IM sesssion or leverage presense to know if he's on his cell phone or office phone before the client calls him. These are the types of things I'd like to see.
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:3, Interesting)
This one definitely offers more features. Linux has no decent softphone programs, and SIP support allows lots of third-party services (say, like Skypeout except from multiple companies with better prices). Too bad SIP is a piece of crap with the same major problems as H323 (if you disagree with me, t
Re:Another Michael Robertson project (Score:2)
I have used SIP-phones behind many NAT routers, and I did not have to configure anything (they use STUN).
Open Standards != Open source (Score:5, Interesting)
Having competing standards and companies in the field will make for better services for the users. Open standards are great, since they improve interoperability and reliability. For example, people can writing their own clients, etc.
However, the project is not open-source. At least, their about us [gizmoproject.com] page doesn't mention it. They only say:
Methinks someone at the Register got confused. Those other clients written may be open-source or even free software, but the client they offer surely isn't. Their server software is not even offered for download (nor should it necessarily be -- that's what they want to make the money off, of course).Don't let anyone snooker you out of your freedom. (Score:5, Informative)
The license for Gizmo Project software [gizmoproject.com] is quite clear, the software doesn't even qualify for the weaker standard of "open source" (weaker than "free software" which requires that the user have permission to make private derivatives):
The company offers what they call "Opensource support" [gizmoproject.com], which appears to be little more than name-dropping. But I expect people around here to know better than to take on faith whatever a proprietor says.
At the very least, even if there is no intention to bamboozle users into adopting the software, this is yet another use of the term "Opensource" which shows how people don't understand what that term means. Reminiscent of examples of same from the FSF essay on the differences between the free software and open source movements [gnu.org] (examples include Neal Stephenson's writing, the State of Kansas' definition, and a particularly interesting example from a trade show in late 1998).
As a result of a little digging into Project Gizmo, I still see no real competition for GNOMEMeeting. I see one more proprietor asking me to install a mysterious program on my computer so that the proprietor can do something on my computer that I am prohibited from inspecting, sharing, or modifying.
Let's not forget (Score:5, Interesting)
Can't remember his connection to SCO, though...
Re:Let's not forget (Score:2)
SIP and NAT (Score:4, Interesting)
For me Skype's most important feature is its ability to play nice with firewalls and NAT.
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:5, Informative)
WRONG, NAT was SIP's weakness ONLY until the STUN protocol came out in 2003. Since then, all SIP clients use the STUN protocol [wikipedia.org] to traverse NAT at least as well as Skype does. I've used EarthLink SIP, sipphone.com SIP, FWD through multiple layers of NATs without a glitch.
STUN is a major enabler of SIP
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:3, Informative)
It depends on who your SIP provider is. When all else fails, your SIP providers might relay RTP traffic between you and your party, which is similar to practices employed by Skype whereby they'll get around network limitations by routing calls through various members, without members' knowledge. Which I find insanely unethical. Do give Gizmo a try and see for yourself instances where you're unable to place or receive calls where Skype can. I have personally not run into such instance, but it'd be interesti
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:2)
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:2)
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:2)
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:3, Interesting)
The sound quality on Skype is also pretty amazing. The only thing i lack in skype is a box to connect to the central PBX and hello cheap functional Voip, good riddance expensive routers and all the other hacks needed for implementing most existing implementa
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:2, Interesting)
Personally I wouldn't touch Skype with a bargepole, solely on the dubious behaviour of the company producing it. They won't disclose who their backers are, but they're suspected to have ties with suspicious (Russian/South African?) companies. They won't disclose who their CEO is. The person who is supposed to be the CEO has gone on record stating that they have very little if anything to do with the running of the company, which has caused
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:3, Informative)
Re:SIP and NAT (Score:2)
A few suggestions (Score:3, Funny)
My picks:
Project Dealie-bob
Project Doohickey
Project Chingadera
Project Whatchamacallit
Project Thingamajig
SIP SCHMIP (Score:4, Interesting)
Although this [p2psip.org] project looks kinda interesting...
Re:SIP SCHMIP (Score:5, Informative)
SIP by its very definition defines and enables P2P based on open standards. The SIP protocol is a signaling protocol, which enables two machines to find each-other on the internet and start exchanging data in real-time without going through a 3rd-party.
SIP opens the doors to far more than just real-time communications (text, voice, video), it also opens the doors to file sharing. It's a matter of someone writing a client that does file sharing over SIP. OH WAIT, someone already did as a proof of concept, and released the source code under a BSD-style license [earthlink.net].
Voice quality is absolutely fantastic with Gizmo, but it entirely depends on which SIP client you use, and which SIP client the party you're calling uses. The SIP protocol, is only a signaling protocol. There are a buttload of other open protocols such as SDP (Session Description Protocol) that come into play and allow for infinite layers of interoperability based on users' computing and network resources. Through handshaking, two SIP clients can easily agree to the best codec to use.
Re:SIP SCHMIP (Score:2, Informative)
MOD PARENT UP!!! (Score:2)
Intercompatibility (Score:3, Interesting)
We use skype and (Score:3, Insightful)
If we could have a choice of more than one application to use for this purpose, that would be pretty cool. If we could have the option of an alternate application to use for this purpose that supported or had, like, even a fraction of the featureset of Ventrilo, that would make us deleriously happy.
That said... I may (or may not, depending on my degree of laziness) in the indeterminate future be writing a network-based application into which I want to embed a VoIP / voice chat aspect in the easiest way possible. How hard is it to get that Skype API access, would that be a good way to do it, and am I opening myself up to risk of some kind of license fuckery by doing so?
Come to think of it, how hard would it be to use the Skype API to write a Skype/Gizmo bridge?
And could they seriously not have come up with a better name than "Gizmo"? I mean come on.
Re:We use skype and (Score:2)
Have you downloaded and tried Gizmo Project for Mac? I have reviewed it for theappleblog.com (currently down because slashdotted), and it's very very nice, albeit still in beta with rare glitches. It works flawlessly with all sound input and output devices you've registered with Mac OS X, including the bluetooth motorola h1810 headset i use.
Gizmo run on Mac OS X, Windows and there's a linux version due out in a month or two.
Re:We use skype and (Score:3, Informative)
PC version: Worked initially. Started up, created an account, and I edited my profile. Saving my profile however made it lock up and I had to kill it. Starting it again just makes it spin at the Login window.
Mac version: Initially brought up login window, but now dies silently while trying to start. No error log to system.log.
Oops, I guess getting exposure on
Re:We use skype and (Score:3, Insightful)
How well does it work? (Score:3, Insightful)
So how good is Gizmo in comparison? Worse, Equal or Better?
Once that question is answered, then there may be something to talk about.
Why I won't switch from Skype! (Score:2)
You only pay for the calls you make, and your credits only expire if you don't use your account for six months.
What a crock! They make it sound like they're doing you a favor by taking your money only after 6 months. I've heard of gift card companies that take a percentage off your credit every few months, but taking all your credit after 6 months? Yikes!
Re:Why I won't switch from Skype! (Score:2, Informative)
Not FREE (Score:4, Informative)
Free speech, no. There's a EULA (http://www.gizmoproject.com/gizmo-end-user.html [gizmoproject.com]) which grants:
Among other items is this:
Re:Not FREE (Score:3, Informative)
ipod (Score:2)
Re:ipod (Score:2)
ACs usually don't
Mandatory FreeWorldDialup comparison (Score:5, Informative)
So, why would you want to use Gizmo?
Re:Mandatory FreeWorldDialup comparison (Score:3, Informative)
Having played around with Gizmo for the past few hours, the answer seems to be "the interface."
For lack of a better way to describe it, it's Skype, but with all the interoperable goodness using SIP offers. It's a little easier to work with than the majority of SIP softphones out there. You get the ease-of-use of Skype with the flexibility of being able to dial any SIP URI. I've already used it to call into my Asterisk box, and it's all hunky dory.
For the telephony gee
free of P2P (Score:2, Interesting)
"Gizmo" _seems_ to be free of such problems, and if that is so it could be a great advantage.
How long before Mike Jones goes Gizmo? (Score:2)
Not as Free as You Mighty Think (Score:2)
SIP is a free and open method for making voice calls. But, you need to buy time to use Gizmo's network. Not exacting a great thing since I can already do the same thing on other IM and SIP clients for free.
SIP security (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:SIP security (Score:3, Informative)
Some of them do (eg. musimi.dk which i use). They use S-RTP AES.
Not all clients support it though (Sipura, Zultrys do).
So how can they tax this? (Score:2)
Small but brilliant (Score:2, Interesting)
Although its a very small thing, its great to see project gizmo offer 25c worth of credit.
It allows the average joe to get their feet wet and they'll be more likely to make the jump and buy credit once they see how great it can be.
Abuse? (Score:2)
I don't see a way around it, other than demanding a credit card number up front; but even if you stress that it's 'just for verification purposes', people and slashbots alike tend to balk at that kind of thing.
Compatible with SIP but shares SIP's problems (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't like having an old fart snooping on my AIM conversations a few years ago and I put an end to it very quick; I've been using Trillian and now Adium with secure IM and OTR encryption.
As much as I like having cheap calls and all I rather my private conversations stay.. well... private.
Skype is the only interplatform secure voice application.
Gizmo can take it's fancy gui and go right back to the drawing board as far as I'm concerned.
If you ask me voip with sip (ala vonage) is just a disaster waiting to happen, sooner or later somebody will write an article in NYTimes or some mass distribution newspaper about how insecure and easy it is for somebody on your campus/office/wifi... LAN to record your conversation and everybody is going to freak out.
Encryption should be built-in NOW before it is too late to change the standards.
Re:Compatible with SIP but shares SIP's problems (Score:2)
Worthless (Score:3, Interesting)
Skype developers saying they use 32768 bit keys means absolutely zero if you cannot verify that.
More about Gizmo (Score:5, Informative)
- It is based on SIP so other SIP hardware and software should interoperate. Check out http://www.siphardware.com/ [siphardware.com] for some of the hardware devices. I have a Call-in-One so a SIP call rings my home phone. Even a wifi SIP phone should work with Gizmo.
- It navigates firewalls and NATS. Skype has done this well, but SIP clients have generally not. Gizmo Project should penetrate just about any firewall or NAT setup. I used it successfully on Boeing's wifi service on flight to Frankfurt 2 weeks ago bouncing calls off satellites.
- It's Mac/Win today and YES, there will be Linux client shortly. No, really.
- We're committed to an open directory meaning that we will interconnect with everyone. We already connect to many big and small networks. See: http://sipphone.com/numbers/ [sipphone.com]. We do enum lookups. We even support the intriguing DUNDI extension for Astericks. I want VOIP world to be like email where one address is reachable by everyone. I hope VOIP does NOT become like IM where AOL can't talk to MSN who can't talk to Y, etc. If you care to read more about why I think this is important, you can go to: http://michaelrobertson.com/ [michaelrobertson.com].
- All calls on IP network are free as is voicemail, call recording, conference calling, etc. (try calling 1-222-xxx-xxxx and create an instant conference call with unlimited number of callers.) Only have to pay if touching the PSTN. We do give you 25 cents for free to check out the PSTN quality.
- Be nice because it's just beta software! Thx.
-- MR
Plz Mod Parent Up (Score:2)
Re:Er, other way around. (Score:2)
Bluetooth headset connectivity... (Score:3, Informative)
1. The headset is automatically detected and Skype's sound devices dialog is changed automatically to use the bluetooth headset.
2. The headset sits in standby mode. Before this plug-in, the headset would have to be tied to the machine in its active mode which drained the battery within 4 hours even though there weren't any calls. This plug-in only activates the headset if there is an incoming call or you hit the quickdial button.
3. The quickdial button can be configured to any # you have in your phonebook.
Now show me any SIP client out there integrates bluetooth (even via third party plug-in) as well as Skype. If you can find one, then I'll ditch Skype in a heartbeat.
Re:Bluetooth headset connectivity... (Score:2)
as a side-note, if you're a Mac OS X user, you already get this for free with just about all VoIP software out there. Mac OS X lets you register various audio input/output devices, whether they work over bluetooth or USB. Any OS X application developer can easily "surface" those devices to enable their users to pick where the sound should come from, and where it should go out. Pretty cool if ye ask me.
And the beauty of SIP is that no software vendor needs to define an API ... because SIP is an open prot
Skype (Score:2)
1.Download
2.Install
3.Works
4.
5. Profit
No seriously. Skype has no problems with firewalls, can operate on very low bandwidth (both do NOT apply to SIP) and basically works everywhere. There are also clients for Mac, Win32, Linux and PocketPC. I don't know if the original poster has any real experience with VoIP, since Skype's protocol overcomes many serious issues at the price of no interaction with former standar
has noone here actually used this yet? (Score:3, Informative)
I is a fairly hopeless alternative to skype, at least for the time being. Gizmo gives you "free" minutes of which you can use to test the system, but, try as I might, I was unable to make a call outside of the US, as 001, the country code for the US was prefixed onto any number I entered in.
Add the random shutdowns when editing certain options (of which there are a distinct lack of) and odd, finicky menus which stay open and dont have a close button, and you have yourself Gizmo.
Having said that, if they can sort those problems out then they will be onto a winner. It is certainly far easier setup than any other SIP/softphone system Ive used.
Re:Stanaphone is SIP too (Score:4, Informative)
Skype works well enough for me, the sound quality is more than okay for telephony, and the latency really isn't bad at all considering. And the Linux client is stable, and is a snap to install. However, I don't use it because:
1 - There's outgoing traffic from my box all the time. I know it's the P2P routing, but it's a bit unsettling to watch it chew away that much bandwidth
2 - It's made by the Kazaa people, and therefore who know what the hell it does behind your back (spyware?). I straced it, and didn't see anything nasty a-priori, but I don't trust Kazaa folks in that respect, period.
3 - The most disquieting feature: it goes some UDP magic to punch its way out of the firewall without telling you anything of what it does. That's sneaky. I know they claim it's for user friendliness and easy of installation and yada, but I say the networking code is too damn sneaky for my strict Unix-bred style of making sure software I install behaves predictably.
So I can't *wait* for an open-source (or at least open-standard, as Gizmo pegs itself) Skype replacement. The biggest problem of course, now, will be to have a compelling enough alternative that the millions of Skype users are willing to switch over, which isn't too likely.
Re:Stanaphone is SIP too (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Stanaphone is SIP too (Score:2)
It's only available for Windows and PocketPC. I wouldn't really call that multiplatform.
Re:Linux coming soon (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no pleasing some people. The state of Linux is what it is, but whenever I'm not happy with something (it tends to be OpenOffice and KDE t
Re:Isn't it misleading to call this telephony ? (Score:2)
The problem is landlines. You can't connect to them using this software unless you pay extra ? I understand alot of people will save on long distance using pc to pc Voip but connecting to landlines offers no big cost savings.
Actually, Skype and other voip services offer very significant cost savings, since the landline part of the call is only from the termination of the ip network. Consider this:
Verizon long distance [verizon.com] per minute USA to Slovakia: $3.69
SkypeOut rate [skype.com] per minute USA to Slovakia: e
Re:Isn't it misleading to call this telephony ? (Score:2)