Toshiba Develops 3-Layer DVD and HD-DVD 228
morpheus83 writes, "Toshiba, in collaboration with disk manufacturer Memory Tech Japan, has successfully combined a HD-DVD and DVD to a single 3-layer, twin-format disk. The resulting disk conforms to DVD standards so it can be played on DVD players, and also on HD-DVD players after upgrading the firmware. The disk can have either Single Layer DVD (4.7GB) + Dual Layer HD DVD (30GB); or Dual Layer DVD (8.5GB) + Single Layer HD DVD (15GB). There will not be a long wait as the new disk can be produced on the existing HD-DVD mass production line with minor process additions."
What is that whoosing sound that I hear (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:What is that whoosing sound that I hear (Score:5, Informative)
Blu-ray already does this!! (Score:2)
Amazing! (Score:5, Funny)
you have that backwards (Score:5, Funny)
Far more importantly, it will save all the porn that is destroyed by marriage.
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The 1TB server is for storing the TC volumes that masquerade as big-ass zip files or movies.
The TC continer files are for hiding the porn
-nB
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Well done Toshiba (Score:4, Insightful)
Counterpoint (Score:3, Funny)
* This does not imply that I believe the PS3 will crush the XBox360 - Microsoft will probably gain marketshare this generation. But Sony will still sell a bucketload of PS3:s, giving them the edge in the HD w
Re:Counterpoint (Score:4, Funny)
I don't think there's any danger of that happening.
Re:Counterpoint (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry man, Sony users don't rumble [eurogamer.net] anymore...
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Blu-ray camp showed this at IFA 2005 !!! (Score:4, Informative)
This "hybrid disc magic" might be considered high-tech and cutting-edge in the HD DVD world, but the exact same "features" was shown and demonstrated live back at last years IFA 2005 in Berlin in the Blu-ray Disc area
http://www.blu-ray.com/ifa2005/ [blu-ray.com]
Hybrid discs are actually part of the offcial BD-ROM spec and was one of the selling points last year when all HD DVD came up with was those lame "flippers"
So don't buy into the Slashdot HD DVD hype, just accept the fact that everything you can do with HD DVD you can do better with BD. Storage capacity is 66% higher and the video interactivity is based on Sun's Java (just like the DVB standard).
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2) Sony could press you a dual-layer Blu-Ray, although it would cost you an arm
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Right, because the JavaScript engine for HD-DVD is going to be smaller? I bet it will work about as well as Javascript works for the web too. Joy.
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Other people have noted that it would ease the transition to hd-dvd considerably, and it's not something I had thought of, but it's definitely true. For gaming and movies both. Such a wealth of opportunity. And other weird hybrids, like an xbox game on the dvd portion and a movie on the hd-dvd... Would make movie-based games even more interesting and possibly get them up to the level of 'enjoyable.' (Okay okay, ther
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The war will be won by the format that is on the front display of all Best Buy-like stores over the planet. Read here for more infos: http://projectorcentral.com/retailing_HD-DVD_Blu-r ay.htm [projectorcentral.com]
Blu-Ray? (Score:3, Insightful)
Implications on Blueray? (Score:2)
Can the Blueray camp just create the same thing? I know that the discs are more complicated and harder to produce. Will that hinder a similar approach?
A lot of people have been saying that the format war doesn't offer enough for consumers. It seems to me that if I could buy a DVD now that also had HD version on it then I'd start stock piling my HD library now and wait for the
Not news (Score:2)
It had the same selling point though. Sell a disk with the movie on it in two formats to future proof a purchase and lock in HD-DVD customers before they get the hardware.
All this enhancement does is have more content on each side of the disk. That's not so great considering that you can not put full size versions of
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If my DVD player can support HD content, even if only the crappy 15gb single layer option is available, I'd pick that over the 8gb non-HD DVD option. I can't actually think of anyone who, also having HD capable readers, would choose otherwise. This being /. I'm sure some
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If the DVD content and the HD-DVD content are two different things, like movie and extras, then there is a real reason to choose.
But in those cases, the menu that comes up should be able to control the path to the content. You simply pick "extras" and the player switches format. So default to HD-DVD if available is probably
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*sigh*
~X~
CD-RW/1/2/3-layer HD-DVD/DVD-R +/-RW (Score:5, Funny)
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Nothing to see here... consumers are clueless. (Score:4, Interesting)
Going by the number of stretched video I've seen from users who don't know the difference between widescreen/letterboxed/4:3/16:9/pan-and-scan, (just when you thought "but I don't like the horizontal black bars at the top and bottom" was dying out on 4:3 screens, the very same who now have 16:9 screens are sying things like "I don't like the vertical black bars on the left and right!")...
The dirty little secret of this technology is that it's just a regular DVD, but you can convince yourself that it's HD-DVD when you play it back on an HD-DVD player... on your NTSC display. Or something.
(And if you can't immediately tell the difference, I'm sure there's a guy in a blue shirt who'll be happy to sell you some triple-layer Monster Cables that'll cure what ails ya. "Only triple-layer monster cables are compliant with triple-layer HD, sir, and can we interest you in the extended warranty on your new cables?")
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Bravo! (Score:2, Insightful)
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Also, I wouldn't say that Sony isn't capable of this... people now-a-days on
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I really don't understand why we went to bare disk formats. I guess people thought CD's were more durable than magnetic discs. I guess they are, but I never had to worry about how I picked up a 3.5" floppy.
Well, this sucks (Score:3, Interesting)
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Not necessarily. Early DVD-5 movies often look like crap, but the authoring houses have learned since then, the equipment has improved, and the compression is generally bett
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Useless Hype? (Score:4, Interesting)
15 GB is sufficient for many movies (Score:2)
If anything, the 4.7 GB DVD layer was more of a runtime restriction than the 15 GB HD la
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Actually 4.7GBs would be enough for a DVD movie (let's say less than 2 hours), PROVIDED they don't include ANY extras. No "making-of", fewer audio tracks, no interviews, etc.
Of course, that's assuming most people don't care about the DVD extras.
Not All That Useful (Score:2)
However, because the DVD part is only single layer, I don't think it will fly. Any movie of normal length that would benefit from HD resolution is going to require a dual-layer DVD to look decent at DVD resolution.
So, where is the market? Videophiles who have purchased HD-DVD players don't care about the DVD part. Videophiles who want to "fut
Now it's official (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, if they really wanted HD-DVD to win, they'd _only_ produce the dual version. That way its a value added product, and you don't have to upgrade all the players in the house to get the most benefits. As you drop your DVD in favor of HD, your discs stay the same. Folks who are quality nuts will get an HD box pretty soon anyway, and the other 98% of the population will never know the difference of the lost 1-2GB of space.
It is seriously brilliant. Marketing can still fumble th ball on this, but properly played this could be the difference in who wins the format war.
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Blockbuster (And NetFlix) will beg to get these discs. It means 1/2 the normal inventory for them. They can't abandon DVD - too many instaled players, but they want all of your business so they'd have to have the HD version too. What a nightmare for inventory. Unless they have dual formats. Nobody wants to go back to the VHS/DVD dichotomy of a couple years ago. (And nobody wants VHS/Beta, either, so by choosing DVD/HD combos they
Still short of capacity. (Score:2)
1DVD/2HD: 34.7 gigs of data.
Yeah, While compatible, I'd go blu-ray for the sheer volume.
Backward Compatibility (Score:2)
With the single layer DVD and dual layer HD-DVD, this hybrid format would give users the backwards compatibility that made the PS2 a success. If they can convince the movie industry to burn both a SD DVD and a HD-DVD on the same media, I think the consumer may start to favor HD-DVD. In a year or so, the consumer may look at his/her movie collection and realize they have a decent ammount of HD-DVD movies. They would probaly push them towards getting a HD-DVD player.
Buying advice (Score:3, Funny)
Advantage ... Blu-Ray? (Score:3, Interesting)
The HD-DVD Drive can read DVDs and the HD-DVD layer on the hybrid disks, but not Blu-Ray disks.
The Blu-ray player can read their own proprietary format, PLUS the DVD layer of the hybrid disk. Sony can now market it as the "Only 100% compatible" player, since their movies play fine, AND the HD-DVD/Hybrid movies play as well. Of course that would only be at DVD resolutions, which could be used to point out the inferiority of the HD-DVD/DVD system -- or don't you think marketdroids will confuse the issue for the common user?
Backwards compatibility is a bitch, especially when your competitors can take advantage too.
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A) Making a hybrid HD DVD that plays everywhere
B) Making a Blu-ray disc that only plays in Blu-ray players.
Is it more useful for Sony to claim "100% compatible players"*
Or discs to claim "100% compatibility"**
* Except you only get 1/6th of the pixels of Twin Discs
** Except you only get 1/6th of the pixels on Blu-ray only players
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It's almost in HD-DVD's best interests to remain exclusive to HD drives. Sony is selling this as nothing less than the future of high definition entertainment. If HD-DVD hybrids look like crap on m
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Which is an advantage shared by Blu-ray players. Except, HD-DVD owners can't buy low-def versions of Blu-ray releases and make the same claim. A Circuit City salesmen working off commission is going to point that out, especially with BD-ROM players going for roughly twice the price of a HD-DVD drive.
And yet the features are worthless. (Score:2)
Both formats have failed. Why would someone want a dual HD-DVD with a single DVD? The dvd is inferior. Why would someone want a dual layer dvd with a single layer Hd-dvd, the HD-DVD is nerfed and you're paying way to much for a DVD.
Honestly the Next
Obvious question (Score:2)
Ultimately meaningless. (Score:2)
HD-DVD pretty much requires a dual-layer disc (15 GB x 2 = 30 GB) to store a feature length 1080p movie (especially when the 50 GB Blu-Ray discs launch in November, HD-DVD will need all the capacity possible). By the same token, a dual-layer DVD disc (DVD9) is required to store a feature length movie on DVD. Yet, there are only offering 3 layers.
This limits the configurations to the following:
OK, now how about 45 gigs? (Score:2)
Ace in the hole... (Score:2)
Good thing that everything else seems to be going Sony's way these days. Oh, wait...
(On a personal note, I was never a Sony fanboy like so many. In the early days of personal casette players, I found the Sony Walkman, like most, actually kinda sucked, and would track poorly on ta
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In the article summary (and TFA), DVD players will not have to be modified. Existing HD-DVD players, though, will need a firmware update to handle it.
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if the disk conforms to DVD standards then you don't need an update.. the update would be for the HD players to not reconize it as a standard dvd and to see past it to the HD layer
Re:Good news for Microsoft... (Score:5, Informative)
JOhn
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Which is nobody, since the HD-DVD ext. drive for the 360 isn't for sale yet
It would save the cost of having to produce two different versions of the same movie (like they had to do with DVD and VHS), a savings which I'm sure they would pass on to the consum*snort*
Hmmm, you give them way to much credit for being consumer friendly. Do you honestly think the movie studios are that nice? I assure you, they'll want to charge even MORE for this type o
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It's really hard to say... only one of the movie companies has to have an executive with a bit o
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Same as movies (Score:2)
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ATRAC (which does admittedly suck) was in MiniDisc use before MP3 even became a buzzword, so you have to give it that. Sony just clung to it for a bit too long.
MemoryStick is still being used in hundreds of consumer devices. (Albeit they're mostly Sony devices, but the format is nonetheless still in he
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Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo, RCA. Microsoft and Intel are important allies. HP has a media center coming out. LG is hedging their bets and producing players for both formats. Most major studios are producing both formats.
Really, way too early to declare a "winner", if there is one.
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Answer this question. When the movie studios and hardware builders license the Blu-ray format where do those licesning fees end up going? Thats right Sony. Saying Blu-ray shouldn't be equated with Sony because their customers/partners also have some input on the product is like saying Windows shouldn't be equated MS because they get input from thier customers.
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That UMD ship has sailed and is sinking with the Sony flag on it.
If I wanted to manufacture a player or media in the UMD format, I would have to pay Sony for a license.
Sony's part of Blu-Ray is only the spearhead, not the license holder. In other words, Sony got together with other media companies and said "Lets come up with a format to hold High Definition media" and nothing else.
I quote from http://www.blu-raydisc.info/ [blu-raydisc.info]
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Toshiba and the DVD forum wouldn't let them load up the next gen DVD spec with all of their patents, so they basically took their ball and went home, made their own spec with as much of their patents as possible in it, with no regard to the quality and feab
No it isn't... (Score:2)
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Frankly, the only reason Microsoft supports the technically inferior HD-DVD format is because Blu-Ray is from Sony and relies on Java. Microsoft has their own "iHD" scripting language platform that they want everyone using. Good luck with that...
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SACD is a streming bit format. each bit signals either an up or down step on the waveform, rather than having sampled bytes indicating a complete level. This is why you can't really start an SACD song in the middle of the song.
Re:Didn't help SACD (Score:4, Funny)
I think I'll go back to bed now, on the grounds that the day can only get weirder after reading something like that.
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The notion that this somehow rules out transport controls is what's weird. That's like blaming your bad gas mileage on the guy who stole the "BMW" symbol off your hood.
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You can buy a movie today, watch it on your DVD player today, and watch it on your HD-DVD player in a few years when the prices come down. It takes all the scariness out of being an early adopter; at the very least, you've got a perfectly good DVD.
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