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Hardware

Stock Analysts Down on DIVX 194

Posted by CmdrTaco from the so-are-we dept.
rmcd sent us a link to a New York Times article that talks about Circuit City is being financially hurt by DIVX. Apparently they are really making a mess over there. So lets get rid of divx, standardize on HDTV, and merge THX & Dolby. That'll happen around the same time as the whole world agrees on the same OS.
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Stock Analysts Down on DIVX More

Stock Analysts Down on DIVX

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  • -- Divx players have a noticeably worse picture quality than regular DVD players, playing the same discs on both machines.
    -- Divx players can even report back on which regular DVD discs they've played recently. (As if the privacy problem you already cited weren't bad enough...)
    -- The Divx company can spam you whenever the hell they want. It's in the service agreement.
    -- If Divx suddenly decides to start charging monthly fees for their service (and they do reserve the right to do that), you either cough up the dough, or your Divx discs become instant coasters.
    -- If a movie studio decides for any reason that they want to "recall" a Divx movie, your disc of that movie won't play anymore. Period. Coaster time :-).
    -- You get dinged for an extra "viewing" even if you just put the wrong disc in the player for 5 seconds. And they won't cancel the charge, so you're stuck with it. They also won't cancel the charges if your kids put a dozen different discs in the player "just to see what'll happen." Hell, they won't even cancel the charges if your Divx player was stolen unless you notify them within 24 hours.

    In short, Divx seems to be designed around one goal: To separate the gullible movie-watching public from the maximum number of dollars before they catch on and dump the worthless system. Judging by the number of Divx player returns Circuit City has been seeing, I guess a lot of people are catching on...

    Eric
    --

  • Well.. (Score:1)

    by drwiii ( 434 )
    You can't say it hasn't been coming.. Divx was a bad idea, and its dismal sales are no surprise. They didn't follow the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) guideline. Too many caveats and rules to follow to get a DIVX disc working. It's a good thing nice, simple Open DVD will triumph in the end.
  • The problem (to me) isn't that Blockbuster has my movie preferences. This actually includes movie preferences of my wife and whenever my siblings show up. The problem is that is I choose, I can go from Blockbuster to Hollywood video to the local rental store. No one company has all my viewing preferences.
    With DIVX, one company has all the information on what DIVX movies are viewed. If more companies took up on this idea, it'd be a bit better. For example, the way VISA and Mastercard work. Each bank has its own way of offering and handling customers, but no matter where I go, I can make a payment with a VISA card. The involvement of VISA is handling the payment between the customer and the vendor.

    Ooh. I aughta get a patent on this idea.....
  • A few months ago, I took my parents to a CC because they wanted a new bookshelf-size stereo. We found one that seemed OK, so my Dad asked me if it had a headphone jack. I looked around the front panel, the side, and top, and found none.

    So I called the nearby salesperson and asked him if it had a headphone jack. He looked around a bit, and came up with a half-smile : "I guess it doesn't have one."

    So then why, I asked him, did the little spec/price sheet for this stereo list, under the heading of "Recommended Accessories", a CD holder and _Stereo_Headphones_?!

    We left pretty quickly.
  • Posted by some2:

    They tried this. Remember the old CD caddies in the first generating CD players? Unfortunately, they failed miserably, most likely because so many people would refuse to buy more than 1 or 2, so they just turned out to be a hassle. If they were in a solid-state cartridge like MiniDiscs, that would be excellent though. I guess we can't get everything.
  • Isn't THX a standard for the hardware, software, ease of use and sound quality...not just another sound system? I thought one of the requirements of a THX reciver is that it can run multiple sets of sound system. Like a home theatre or the TV and stereo in the bedroom. Of course I have no THX rated hardware so all of my knowledge is from reading magazines. Oh...DIVX needs to die a quick and silent death.
  • IMNSHO, Divx discs are just as good as AOL bisks. They sure would look nice hanging from my car's rear view mirror. And would give a nice look to my Yuenglings.

    ^D
  • Ahhh ok, didn't realize this. I had assumed it was the compression since the first time I saw the effect was watching a DSS satellite feed. (FWIW, I use an S-Video cable)
  • While I quite like DVD, the compression leads to issues other than artifacts as well. Take a look at the video right after a scene change or during quick panning. You'll notice that the horizontal lines are spread out, and when the image stabilizes they fill in. This happens when the bit rate can't keep up with the amount of information that's required, and can be slightly aggravating.

    Still, though, I think DVD is a very good set of tradeoffs between size, quality and marketability.

    If anyone's looking for a good deal, You can get the Toshiba SD-2109 at Sears for something like $270 with 1 free movie + 5 pre-chosen free ones. (I think they have similar offers with their other DVD players)
  • me: hi. here's the movie i want.
    them: that'll be $3. this is due back on tuesday.

    me: thanks. bye.

    that was tough.

    nothing wrong with getting out of your house every once and awhile and actually interacting with people.
  • It's that kind of fatalistic attitude that just contributes to the problem.

    Maybe if more folks stopped accepting drug testing as a fact of life instead of standing up to the constitutional violation that it is, "most places" wouldn't feel comfortable performing said testing.
  • Why not wish Circuit City bad luck? They deserve it for this DIVX fiasco.

    There's plenty of other reasons not to like 'em also, not the least of which is the fact that all prospective applicants for jobs are given a full drug test. Blech.
  • but the point is lost on CC.

    Do what one of my coworkers does. He does this about once every month. Go into Circuit City, or Good Guys, and start looking at something really expensive, like a huge TV or really high end pair of speakers. Get the salesperson all worked up, have him start writing up the order.

    Then, as you go for your credit card, glance over at the DIVX supply and say:

    "Oh..wait...you guys sell DIVX?" As you put your credit card back in your wallet, "I can't buy from you guys if you sell DIVX, sorry."

    Haven't tried this yet, but after my friend mentioned it, I can't wait to go try it. ;)
  • My mistake and mis-speak. I got so excited the words "constitutional violation" just leaped out onto the keyboard. ;)
  • one more thing to add: they drug test all their employees and prospect applicants.
  • If you don't like their hiring practices, go somewhere else

    Uhh, like, that was the main point of my post. Everyone was in such a hurry to correct my constitutional error that they assumed that was the main point of my post.

    I still can't imagine them wanting you high at work! Alcohol is legal, but you shouldn't go to work drunk

    I'm not saying that you should. What I'm saying is that these blanket drug screenings are intruding into what one does in one's personal life outside of work. In my opinion the only kind of drug testing that is acceptable is impairment based testing...i.e. an employee is demonstrably impaired at work or has had erratic performance. Then and only then should the employer have the right to test their employees.

    The only other acceptable time IMHO is when the person will be doing a job that can directly affect the life of other people, e.g. driving a school bus or working heavy machinery.
  • but why should an employeer be forced to hire some fucking pothead

    How exactly does the fact that I might smoke a joint in the evening have anything to do with selling a damn CD player to some schmo 12 hours later? And who said anything about forcing them to hire somebody? If someone is so impaired by drugs, or a "fucking pothead" as you so eloquently put it, they will be likely be elimated in the interview process when they can't speak in complete sentences.

    I'm not saying an employer doesn't have the right to perform drug tests at all, I'm just against blanket screenings of all applicants. What I may or may not do in my private life has no impact on my employer, as long as it doesn't affect my work performance.
    If you've got an employee that is having performance issues, and shows up for work obviously impaired, then by all means, take a cup of piss for all I care.

    If you don't like their hiring practices, don't work there

    I wouldn't. Nor will I shop there. Your point?

  • I'm sorry if you only watch crap on TV. A tip for you, a lot of quality programming can easily be found by tuning in TLC, Discovery, or your local PBS channel.

  • so how could it have been too late?

    I picked up one of the first SVHS decks available in the US, in 1988. DVD didn't show up until 9 years later in 1997(again, in the US).

    The difference in picture quality isn't as great between DVD and SVHS as it is between VHS and SVHS. Based on the values of DVD = 480, LD = 425, and VHS= 240 (found in this DVD faq [dvdinsider.com]) SVHS has 77% more picture detail than VHS, while DVD only has 13% more picture detail than SVHS. Plus SVHS has the definite advantage of recording over DVD.

  • Divx is not ecologically friendly. The concept of a disposable movies incased in plastic is definitely not PC :-)

  • 480P is SDTV(Standard Definition), not HDTV(High Definition).

  • I've seen both 16:9 tube sets as well as projection sets. Best Buy here in Houston uses 16:9 tube sets to demo anamorphic(widescreen, not letter boxed) DVD movies.

    It's pretty lame when you don't check your facts first.

  • sorry, it isn't HDTV. I keep up with video quite a bit and know of what I speak.

    Check this DVD Faq [dvdinsider.com], where you will find the following in section 2.9:
    DVD-Video does not directly support HDTV as well as
    DTV format, which includes both high definition (HD) and standard definition (SD)...SD (704x480 at 24P, 30P, 60I, 60P) and HD (1280x720 at 60P and 1920x1080 at 30P).

    While 480p is DTV, specifically SDTV, it is not defined as an HDTV format. HDTV formats are only 720 and up(after all, if it's the same resolution as current TV's, it's not High Definition, is it?)

    NTSC is defined as 525i, however it actually only shows 480i. There are 20+ scan lines before the top of the picture, and another 20+ scan lines after the bottome of the picture. These non-visible scan lines are used to carry additional information(such as closed captioning), as well as to give the video beam time to move from the bottom of the picture tube back to the top.

  • I'm not arguing against the "added features" of DVD. It has some nice ones, just like FAT32 has some nice features when viewed against the prior FAT file systems.

    I'm arguing that just like FAT32, DVD didn't go as far as it could have when compared with what came before.

    Since you brought it up, Laser Disks have random access, additional content, multiple sound tracks, digital sound. Very few use more than 1 disk. The ones that do, such as the 2 disk collector's edition of Toy Story, tend to contain lots of additional content, such as all of the prior PIXAR productions.

    As far as digital dolby 5.1, you'll need to invest in new expensive sound equipment to be able to benefit, just like you'd need to invest in new expensive video equipment in order to access the better resolution of an HDTV capable DVD. You can still use DVD without a new sound equipment, just like you can use DVD without a new video system. Just as the sound is dramatically better when you upgrade your audio components, wouldn't it be great if when you upgraded to an HDTV set that ALL of your DVD colletion would look dramatically better? You'd just be able to get more out of your DVD investment as you upgrade the other parts of your audio-video system.

    DVD will be the furby of '99... Hmm, let's all be lemmings, which seems extremely counter to most of what the ./ clientel stand for. If ./'ers were lemmings, we'd all be rooting for ms in the lawsuit.

  • maybe if I use an analogy that ./er's can understand...

    DVD is to consumer video as FAT32 is to windows 98 hard drives

    FAT32 is slightly better than what was used before(in the windows world). It solves the wasted space problems encountered with larger disk drives. However, FAT32 is not the best solution to hard drive storage formats.

    Likewise, DVD has a slightly higher resolution than what came before in the consumer video world, but it could have been so much more.

    To me, all the people praising DVD for what it did to an analog TV's picture quality is exactly the same as all the people hyping FAT32 for being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

  • should have be "seldom used" :-)

    Instead of using the dual layer to get up to 4 hours per side, it could have been used to achieve HDTV resolutions.

  • then by that arguement I'd have to say that Linux is not available at all because you cannot walk into Sears and buy a computer preloaded with Linux.

  • Ever try to fit an 8" wide device in a 5.25" bay?
    True, computer compatiblitiy was probably a deciding factor in the final form. However, by using the already designed but not used double layer DVD, the capacity could have easily been achieved on a 5" disk. The double layer works by having the first layer be semi-transparent. The laser can focus on either layer to read the data(similar to how you can see thru a rain covered window by focusing thru the raindrops).

    The relatively large amount of CD-form-factor infrastructure around also makes life more convenient.
    not really, 8" is one of the sizes that laser disks come in. 8" disks tend to be karaoke and music videos.

    Plus, 8" disks would be too damned big.
    The artwork on a laser disk sleeve tends to look a lot better than the artwork on DVD box.

  • and that's my grip.

    If they had made the disk slightly larger, say midway between a Laserdisk and a CD(about 8 inches diameter) they would have had the capacity to do so. By doing so, we wouldn't now be stuck in the scenerio of "nothing to watch on HDTV, so why buy it?". HDTV will basically sell itself, but only if you can see how much better the picture is.

    It also saves the problem of people not upgrading because the current system is good enough. An excellent example of this happening is SVHS(Super VHS). The SVHS decks provide laser disk quality on a video tape, while maintaining the ability to play/record the original VHS tapes. In spite of the obvious increase in picture quality (about double the resolution), very few SVHS decks were sold.

  • you'll have to admit there is a major difference between not available at all and available but more expensive.
  • That's my major grip with DVD. DVD does look OK when viewed on current low-quality TVs, but does not buy you anything with an HDTV set. It would have been a seriously major boost to the acceptance of HDTV if you could purchase movies with HDTV quality.
  • Seriously, I can't stand the idea.

    If someone is willing to employ me, but won't take my word for it, why the hell would they trust me to work there? I refuse to work in an environment predicated on distrust. I have much the same problem with the 'final indignity' practiced at Costco & CompUSA. It's a slur on my honor.
  • i come from France, where all movies in VHS or CDV are in 16/9 and we CAN watch them on 16/9 TV, here in north america there's only 4/3 TV and almost every movies sold in VHS are in "pan scan" format 4/3 so we lose about 1/3 of the picture... it's really lame... lame US...
    --
  • At least he was man enough to use his own name, and in my opinion its not really as much an issue of drugs, as privacy.

    Personally I have never done any drugs, but still would not take a job that required a drug test.
  • The one thing that bugs me is when people complain about how Blockbuster and cable companies and credit card companies can already track you and what you do.

    That's quite true, but it's important to realize that there are laws covering information companies gain from video rentals, cable pay-per-view purchases, and credit card purchases. Companies are not allowed to sell that information, period.

    DIVX wouldn't be half as bad if a similar law covered it, too, IMHO. The privacy thing is the biggest drawback. I also hate the idea of paying if you accidently put in the wrong disk or whatnot, but the idea of my porn^H^H^H^H movie preferences being sold scares me. :-)

    Sujal

  • Well, I didn't say that they didn't track it.

    The laws specifically cover *selling* that information to others (in other words, they can do what they want with the info, just not sell it to advertisers).

    Sujal

  • I was just speaking in the scope of privacy issues. My cable company (I'll name names: Comcast) just decided that the last free channel on my system would be best filled with the Game Show Network instead of Comedy Central or FX, so they're rapidly climbing my s***list.
    At least they're rewiring my neighborhood for digital/internet cable, so they have a chance to redeem themselves.

    Keith Russell
    Whatever happened to peaceful coexistance?
  • Evil Companies that Should Die: Cable providers and video rental companies must comply with federal laws that govern their use of personal information. I'm not sure Divx is held to the same standard. Better the evil I know than the evil I don't.

    Collecting and DVD features: The two subjects relate very well. Some people may be rather lemming-like in their selections ("The #1 movie of the summer!"), but I only buy what I like. My tastes lean towards movies with a distinct visual style. (Note to self: Reserve The Matrix!) That makes widescreen/letterbox very important. I also like the optional commentary audio tracks (like Aronofsky and Gullette's tracks on Pi), that provide insight into the writer's or director's vision of the film.

    V is for Video?: IIRC, DVD stands for Digital Versatile Disc. My DVD player is the DVD-ROM that came with my PC. The decoder card has S-Video out, so I can watch it on my TV or monitor. The last time I was at CompUSA, I saw Myst, Riven, Journeyman Project 3, and Encarta on DVD-ROM, and my company gets Microsoft Developer Network's optional DVD-ROM version of their library, which is normally 3 CD-ROMs.
    Divx has no plans to create some sort of "Divx-ROM," because of the security issues. I'm certainly not going to attach something to my computer that dials out in the middle of the night while I'm sleeping.

    I'm sure you, like most people, are happy with nothing more than the enhanced A/V quality of DVD that Divx offers. But for me, Divx is nothing but a supercharged VHS with the late fee built into the "purchase" price.

    Keith Russell
    Whatever happened to peaceful coexistance?
  • But granted, it's for a Good Cause... ;-)
  • >>I know that the artifacts are small and _most_ of the time they aren't noticeable

    Decent encoding/mastering gets rid of this, expect things to get better. My wife runs a DVD encoding operation, and they spend a lot of time tuning the encodings for specific problems - assisted by the encoding software getting much better too.

    All products are compromises, non-lossy compression at a similar quality would have to spin the disc so fast (and such a big disc too) to make the product useless.
  • It's nitpicking, but here we go :)

    Best Buy isn't a video rental store. However, to take your side on one point, you are completely right about that utter crap warranty they push. They push that damned thing *hard*. I once had to tell a yokel at BB "no" *three* times. The third time I got quite nasty with him and he finally understood. I think they're not completely honest on the commission issue -- they may not make commission on sales, but I betcha they either get a kickback or incentive for warranty sales, or they get disciplined/fired if they don't meet a quota.

    Again, as the poster you responded to asked, how is a video store drone worse than a CC drone?

    Video stores are also open more often than CC is. More hours per day. While you may not get bothered by CC drones (that's a load of dung, by the way -- I've *never* made it through a CC without being pestered) whilst searching through the small DIVX rack, you have to go search for one to let you pay for it.

    I don't quite get the "when it is convenient for the video store" statement ... wtf does that mean? Haven't you ever gone into a video store on a weekend afternoon? *GASP*! Look at that! IT'S OPEN!!!

    If you want to rent a DVD, you go to the video store and rent one. You don't get bothered by sales drones, and there's always one waiting to take less of your money. If you want a DIVX, you wander to CC, shake off some drones, then hunt one down when you're ready to part with your money.

    I have always laughed hysterically at the notion that some people are legitimately lazy enough that the "convenience" of not having to return a stupid disc to a video store outweighs the crippling downsides of DIVX. "I don't mind not having widescreen, multi-lingual, multi-camera-angle, etc.; I don't have to take this back when I'm done with it! Bwahahaha!"

    If that's the only legitimate reason to use DIVX, then it's pathetic (but we knew that already :) You just keep spending five bucks for a crippled disc. I'll spend half that to rent the real thing.
  • I haven't personally bought anything at Circuit City since I learned about the whole DIVX fiasco, and I encourage my friends to go elsewhere also. I'm offended by the strategy of DIVX, and doubly so by the reluctance of Circuit City to realize what idiots they were. I consider it an insult that they continue to fund the project when it's clear that no one with a brain will ever buy in.

    Later,
    Zach
  • That blade runner conversion is one of the worst Film to DVD conversions there is.

    I have found that most people who were quick to bad mouth LD are quick to jump down on DVD. Alas these poor souls will never know the wonder of the fabulous Criterion collection edition of fine movies... oh well, just more on the shelf for me to buy.

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • Uh and where do you buy it from? I live in SF and there are 5 rental places within 3 blocks of my house... not a one has DIVX (suprise!). However 3 of the 5 have DVDs. The closest circuit city (5 blocks and I bet thats a lot closer than most people live to a CC) has a selection of about 40 different movies and it was a "rollout" store for DIVX.

    Another huge DIVX flaw, no Criterion Collections (and there never will be). I currently own 11 Criterion disks and view them all with the same reverance that I hold for a fine hard covered book.

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • Anyone who rambles on about how great DIVX is and then says "[it] is sharp and clear as hell on my proscan" obviously doesn't spend much time watching movies.

    I am willing to lay 10 to 1 odds this person doesn't even have their DVD player hooked up via the SVIDEO jack and optic audio cable? HAH, prolly still using the speakers on that mighty proscan tv.

    ---
    Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...
  • >Circuit City just isn't pervasive enough -- they're not in the small markets in the sort of way that a company like Best Buy is. There was no way they were ever going to pull this one off.


    I have to agree with you there...

    The other thing I've notcied about Circuit City is that they don't encourage salespeople to sell you what you want... most Best Buys realize that getting you out the door quickly with ANY purchase is a good thing. Circuit City is too concerned with selling you what they make the most money on.


  • Why in the world would you ever put gigabytes (I'm talking DVD here, no flames please) on an optical storage medium designed so people HAVE TO TOUCH IT? Get real. CDs and DVDs should have been designed in a cartridge so that you CAN'T touch the surface, unless you really want to. The fact that a new storage medium has emerged without such protection is unconscionable. I do realize that would introduce additional cost, but big deal. Now that a DVD movie cost $25 retail, wouldn't an extra buck or two be worth it to ensure that movie lasts for years? And if you have several gigabytes of files backed up on DVD, wouldn't it make sense to have it protected against damage that could be casually inflicted?
  • Not to mention going up to a video store and renting a movie is a LOT quicker and easier for me than going up to a CC.

    Video Store: Literally across the street, Cute counter help, Late fee's are my own problem - I know up front when I rent when it's due back. I have no problem taking responsibility for getting it there.

    CC: almost an hour to the closest one, quite possibly the most annoying staff out of any store I've ever been to, very porly informed staff, pushy unhelpfull staff.

    And that's just the renting vs. buying at CC!

    Add in the way that most DIVIX don't have widescreen, (Forget about HD 1:19 TV's are here now) some can't go silver, and the idea of "pay per view" makes me look for a discounted price, not a higher one! This is no bonus, it's (* I'll censor myself here*).


  • I thought the main reason HDTV hs never taken off,
    was no demand. The companies producing (or
    planning to) HDTV did 'blind' [1] screenings with
    viewers to see what they preferred. Regular TV
    with better sound was judged to be better than
    HDTV with regular sound. HDTV with better sound
    was judged just as good as regular TV with better
    sound.

    [1] No pun intended
  • My only question is, when DivX finally goes under, how big is the class action lawsuit by all the people who were duped into buying into it going to be?

    If they all were talked into it by sales droids, then they might have a fairly decent chance at winning too... (Or am I just watching way too much Ally McBeal? :)

    Later,
    Blake.

    I speak for PCDocs
  • Once, I went to CC to buy an X2 modem (Sportster internal, non-Winmodem), before V.90 was standardized. I asked the salesman if it was compatible with OS/2. He immediately said, "No, you need this one over here for OS/2", and promptly walked to the other end of the department and grabbed from the shelf...
    a Macintosh modem.

    I said that that was not what I was looking for and he answered that "that was the only OS2 he had heard of". The x2 I originally had works fine, BTW.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I'm sorry, but you must not know anything about DVD if you think it blows. You just try putting a VHS player and a dozen videos in your backpack next time you fly somewhere.

    I think the DVD player in my ThinkPad is the greatest advance in portable technology since the CD. I like the letterbox format movies, the alternate language soundtracks, and even the multi-lingual subtitles.

    Divx offers none of those advantages, and isn't portable. If you take a movie to another player you need to pay again to see it, even if you are within a paid viewing period.

    So farewell to Divx, long live DVD, and blow something else, PhoneMonkey.
  • The temperature in the Abyss is a balmy 140 degrees Fahrenheit, with a 98% relative humidity. This trend is expected to continue.

    In other news, pigs have as of yet NOT sprouted wings, and monkeys are not about to fly out of my butt.

    But we can always hope.

  • FUD! (Score:1)

    by dirty ( 13560 )
    But granted it's true. Divx is one of the few products you can buy where if the company goes out of business the computer is no longer functional. If company that makes your car goes under your warantee will no longer be any good, but your car will still drive.
  • but the next guy refuses, and so does the next guy, and the next, and the next. Uh-oh, circuit city has no body left to hire. Maybe they should rethink their drug testing policy. If everyone says "well that sucks, but that's just the way it is, nothing will ever change"

  • also.. (Score:1)

    by dirty ( 13560 )
    I actually wonder how long it will be before you start getting Divx discs in the mail that don't come with the first free viewing period. That certainly would be interesting.
  • More variety, better features, and better pricing across the waters.

    The sets in Europe and other locations are reasonably priced, usually less than $1200 for a 28 inch multiformat (PAL/NTSC/SECAM) widescreen, with sizes 20-37 inches (This is from looking at the british site, dixons (http://www.dixons.co.uk:80/). Cheapest widescreen in US about 2k.

  • One could say that not available at Wallmart/Sears is not really available at all.
  • DVD is different that a VCR, and even VCD. Similar to laser disks.

    DVD has random access to the information on the disk. VTR's do not.

    Addtional content, like trailers

    How many video tapes have more than one language soundtrack.

    How many VCR's can do digital dolby 5.1 sound?
    (The real reason to get a dvd).

    How many Laserdisks come on more than 2 (or 4) 12 inch disks? Laserdisks were way to big for me to want to create a collection. DVD and video, got em.

    DVD will be the furby of xmas 1999. Everyone will want one, but there will not be enough players to go around.
  • What the are you going to record? TV signal?

    Sat Signal is the only thing with enough quality. And if one wants a recording gadget, there are newer toys, tivo (ok bad idea).
  • DVD are recorded in 480p: 480 line, progressive, non-interlaced scan. An accepted digital TV standard.

    Downconversion happens in the player.

    Some DVD's are anamorphic ("widesceen" enhanced), and use all 480 lines for information. Other are just widescreen with black bars at the top and the bottom.
  • It would still play DVD's. Just not the collection of $4.49 coasters.

    Now if they had stuck with the original, did not play dvd player, then they would be in deep %&*$. Of course this is probably why it has DVD compatibility. Can you imagine all those people with DIVX players and long term extended warrenties returning dvix ony players to CC when divx went belly up.

    "It no longer works, repair it. Can't digital video express is no longer in bussiness. Well make it work.... Well give me a new one!"
    DVD compatibility saves them for when the venture goes ass up.

  • also.. (Score:1)

    by Tzoq ( 14169 )
    Beta is still used by almost all professional video companies. Any time you see a news videographer wandering around with a camera on his shoulder, it's a Betacam.
  • Ever try to fit an 8" wide device in a 5.25" bay?

    The relatively large amount of CD-form-factor infrastructure around also makes life more convenient.

    Plus, 8" disks would be too damned big.
  • DVDs are better quality with more stuff included
    DVDs are rented for the same price and can be played on any DVD player
    DVDs can be returned if scratched.
    DVDs are returned so you dont have to manage a whole library of discs you've rented before
    DVDs can be copied
    DVDs dont require your CC# or a phone line plugged into your player to run
    DVDs are supported by everyone, DIVX is circuit city only.


    Folks, this is why BetaMax lost to VHS.

    -Z
  • David Garrett
  • However, by using the already designed but not used double layer DVD
    Actually, dual-layer DVD is used quite often. I'd say half of my movie collection arrived on dual-layer DVD. I'm going to be impressed when DVD-18 (dual-layer, double sided) arrives.

    David Garrett

  • I really dislike DIVX, which makes me believe that they would be shady enough to make the following argument:

    DIVX is a pay-per-view format. Once the disk has been watched once, the consumer has recieved his or her money's worth. At this point, DIVX's obligation to the consumer ends. If the consumer had wanted to watch the movie again, he or she would have had to "purchase" the movie again, and therefore, DIVX owes the consumer nothing.

    They might be forced to give refunds on all of the "Silver" disks that they had activated, but I suspect that very few disks have been converted to silver in the first place.

    David Garrett

  • Yeah, well, most places do....
  • I thought the last DIVX story here stated that Circuit City said they would fund DIVX for another year, but needed additional partners to keep it going beyond that. This report is more an analysis of how DIVX is confusing for investors.

    I see nothing here to indicate that Circuit City is about to dump DIVX anytime this year.

    Too bad.
  • Woohoo!

    --John Riney
    jwriney@awod.com
  • The thing in life is to demand the best, but settle for compromise.

    There are many choices made for the tradeoffs seen in DVD, and for the most part are liveable.

    Good compression, good quality, good sound, many pluses like multi-language, multi-scene, multi-subtitle, extra footage, etc.

    AS
  • Can a player be made to ignore everything except to read the data on the disk? IE, assume Divx goes down in flames, if it is legal, could one release a player that ignores all the phone line stuff and play the content regardless?

    AS
  • Ok, its dying, but I'm just glad that DVIX AND are finally on their way to loser hell......
  • That was supposed to be AND Circut City

    :-)
  • It's hardly a constitutional violation. If you don't like their hiring practices, go somewhere else. They are a private company, and one of the restrictions they place on employment is that their employees cannot use illegal drugs.

    And I am in favor of legalizing most drugs, but I still can't imagine them wanting you high at work! Alcohol is legal, but you shouldn't go to work drunk.

    Mike
    --

  • their crappy service

    Tell me about it. Circuit City lost me a while ago.

    Me: Is it interlaced?
    CC Drone: Oh yes, sir, it's fully interlaced.
    Me: Um, that's bad...do you even know what you're selling?
    CC Drone: [Blank stare].

    They could at least tell these people something.

    Mike
    --

  • IIRC, one of the other things that killed Betamax was that a single tape would only hold 1 hour on it, so you'd have to swap tapes in the middle of a movie. This annoyed people. VHS' ability to hold an entire (average, 2-hour) movie on one tape was a major consideration.

  • DIVX is just allright with me, yea... (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    OK, this post has got to be from an anonymous coward, 'cause I predict it will generate a napalm barrage, not to mention the obligatory 'this guy must be a Circuit Shitty plant' comments.

    I like DIVX. It was pretty easy to set up, the picture is excellent, and it has saved my wife and I countless hastle and coin dealing with Video Stores. Yea, I feel guilty about giving into the Big Brother aspects of it, but not too guilty, in my book Blockbuster and my cable company are much higher on the list of _Evil Companies that Should Die_ than CC could ever hope to be.

    Yea, I don't get to play with multiple aspect ratios, blah, blah, but the picture is sharp and clear as hell on my Proscan. We head over to Circuit City every couple of weeks, buy a handful of discs for the price of one DVD, stick 'em in a drawer, and don't worry about them till we have a few spare hours to watch a movie. No muss, no fuss, and no on-going relationship with video rental store droids, "Hi, welcome to BallBuster, where would you like to be kicked today?"

    Of course, if DIVX does go south, I can always use regular DVD. Btw, I have to say that Video 'Collecting' has to be the most pathetic activity ever. Unless we're talking about a genuine classic that you might want to watch again and again, like 2001, or something to pacify your kids I suposse, dropping $25 bucks on 'Armeggedon' or some other piece o' shit Hollywood offereing just so it can sit on your shelf, and you can impress you friends with your DD sound effects is lame, lame, lame. I suspect (beyond the very real privacy concerns) that a lot of the venom behind the DIVX attacks comes from people with more money than sense who went out and dropped major money on DVD discs.

    I think I can hear those F-111s heading my way allready...
  • The Best Buy in Reston, VA, got taken to court a couple of years ago for trying to discourage comparison shopping.

    An enterprising gentleman built himself an Excel spreadsheet to help him compare prices on big screen TVs, then he loaded said spreadsheet onto a notebook computer and went shopping. When he got to Best Buy and started jotting down prices, the store manager called the cops and threw him out. The next day the same gentleman went back with a pad of paper and a pen, and was immediately thrown out, again, with more cops and an arrest this time. When he got to court, the judge threw out the case with lots of nasty words about Best Buy. Eventually said gentleman sued Best Buy, but that case got thrown out by the (different) judge too.

    At the time Circuit City got a lot of good press by inviting said gentleman to spend as much time as he wanted comparison-pricing their TVs.

    That said, while I may go to Circuit City to check prices, I'll never buy there ... I hate having to fend off the sales-critters.

  • This was all old news to me, except for one point which I found very amusing: Circuit City owns a piece of Carmax, a used car dealership. I wonder if they sponsor some sort of employee exchange program among their salespeople...
  • Beta was a better technology than VHS. That it was only a Sony technology killed it. DVDs in general use MacroVision to introduce nastiness in the picture quality if you try to copy it. There are ways to defeat this however. Sima for instance makes a MacroVision scrubber.
  • How can you talk about the advantages of DVD over DIVX and NOT mention privacy??

    This is MY big problem with DIVX... everything you watch with it goes to some soulless corporate database which will later be exploited.

    It should be a crime for corporations to collect and sell information on you without your consent. It's a form of privacy theft borderline on stalking.

    To put it another way, privacy is threatened enough without the TELEVISION WATCHING US!

    Additionally, DIVX is very environmentally unfriendly. How can they cheer this on as "disposable movies"? It's bad enough that America Online sends unrequested CD software to people who don't even HAVE a computer... now we're going to throwaway movies after viewing? We ARE destroying ourselves... just keep consuming to keep your mind off it.

    How do you copy DVD?? Using CDDA?? :) After the MP3 fiasco they'll never let the best technology win.. when bandwidth and storage get cheaper look for the MP3 wars to expand to video. Information wants to be free.... corporations want to control it.
  • Good point about video collecting. You guys should take a look at "Widescreen Review", a magizine aimed at high end videophiles who purchase about $100,000 worth of equipment just so they can watch the latest Batman movie without having to walk their big fat asses down to the movie theater. Pretty funny read - all these big technical analyses of the color shift tonal qualities of some totally low brow movie running on top end hardware.
    --
  • The whole Beta-was-better-than-VHS is a classic Internet legend. First of all, Beta (because of the smaller tape size), couldn't hold a 2 hour movie at SP speed. Eventually recitified, but killed Beta in the early rental market.

    Second, I doubt you could even tell the difference between a $400 1983 Beta machine from and a $400 1983 VHS machine. They both suck by the modern standard of a $100 1999 VHS machine. People just wanted to rent movies using the cheapest deck they could get, and that was VHS.
    --
  • I've noticed that today whatever I post has a score of 2 automatically(watch this prove me wrong). You seem to have several 3s. What's going on?
  • There's just not enough information on a DVD to do that. In about 6 years, there will be HD-DVD or something like that, with a shorter wavelength laser and more information on the disc. They'll still play normal DVDs. Who has an HDTV anyway? The highest quality stuff you can see on that is the broadcast HDTV stuff (all six hours a week). Then I guess comes Satellite feed. Then DVD is the highest quality pre-recorded video source availible (I guess actual film might be better). It may not support HDTV yet (but anamorphic discs support at least the widscreen aspect), but it's the best thing out there to date.

  • HDTV (Score:2)

    by AJWM ( 19027 )
    The downside to LCDs is viewing angle and latency, which may smear the image where there's a lot of action. Or not - I don't know how well the latest LCDs handle this.

    But hell, HDTV on a 17" CRT computer monitor would be fine - just sit closer to the damn screen.

    I'd like to see a HDTV tuner with an SVGA output...

  • Beta (Score:2)

    by AJWM ( 19027 )
    That it (Beta) was only Sony was part of the problem. The main reason VHS won out over Beta (in home machines) was that VHS tapes had a longer recording time -- long enough to contain a full feature length movie, which Beta couldn't (except at lower resolution).

    That rapidly led to more software being available for VHS than for Beta.
  • Everyone seems to have commented on my first sentence only. May the flames begin.

    Perhaps if I had worded it: If DVD was what it could be, it wouldn't blow, but as it stays with the technological and cultural shortcomings which are standard with Laserdisc which it closely emulates, it is nowhere near the fabulous technological advance it could be.

    It is easily scratched, and the info on both sides makes it hard to handle compared to Minidiscs, which with the new 6 Gig format will prove very interesting.

    but compared to what it could be, DVD blows.

    I would have written all that, but I was at work.

    I would also like to personally thank all who have emailed me flames for making Slashdot what it is today

    Bitter.....


    "Responsibility for my career? I'm just a freakin' phone monkey!"
  • Guys, DVD blows, but don't even get me started on Divx.

    Hopefully this will sound as a warning to Divx distributors....

    No one (who knows better) wants it, movie companies don't support it, video retal houses don't support, it has no extra features like DVD (a plus) and the hardware setup requires a credit card (?!?)

    Go away soon Divx, you won't be missed
    "Responsibility for my career? I'm just a freakin' phone monkey!"

  • Artifacts only problem if you are completely anal (Score:3)

    by Tony Shepps ( 333 ) on Tuesday April 06, 1999 @12:39PM (#1947034)
    I've watched about 40 DVDs on a 32" TV and only in two films did I notice artifacting. (In the first apartment scene in Blade Runner, and crowd shots in Young Frankenstein).

    Only in the case of Blade Runner did it bother me, but it bothered me a *lot* less than having to watch a Pan-n-Scan blurry bulky VHS tape with metal oxides flaking off of it...

    Sure they might have come up with a solution that doesn't fit in notebook computers or on your bookshelf or in the palm of your hand. Every consumer product has tradeoffs. Complaining about DVD because of artifacting is like complaining about sex because of the wet spot.

  • Offtopic moderator question (Score:3)

    by Tony Shepps ( 333 ) on Tuesday April 06, 1999 @05:47PM (#1947035)
    I don't know! I think my reply there STARTED with a three!

    I know my post on another topic was moderated up to five (I watched it go), and then somehow wound up back down at three; and another post on yet another topic seemed to go right to three and stick there, but not automatically.

  • also.. (Score:3)

    by Aaron M. Renn ( 539 ) <arenn@urbanophile.com> on Tuesday April 06, 1999 @12:28PM (#1947036) Homepage
    That's one reason not to invest any money in a Divx player or a Divx disk. Why take a chance that they'll go belly up and you'll never be able to watch all those movies again?

  • Heh. Just remember, you can rent DVD's from a video store. There is no need to shell out the $25 bucks to buy something you'll only watch once.

  • Let's Summarize Divx (Score:3)

    by Aaron M. Renn ( 539 ) <arenn@urbanophile.com> on Tuesday April 06, 1999 @12:43PM (#1947038) Homepage
    The Divx v. DVD thing had been beaten to death, but let us summarize:

    Advantages of Divx v. DVD:

    -- Able to watch the limited number of movies available in Divx format only.
    -- Do not have to return disks after renting them.

    Advantages of DVD v. Divx:

    -- PRIVACY. You don't need to let the DVD company know that you bought a disk. With Divx you'll be required to do that to get repeat views or to "purchase" the CD permanently.
    -- Price. Divx is more expensive.
    -- DVD does not tie up a phone line. Nor does it require a credit card to charge.
    -- DVD is more popular and thus is likely to win the format war, making Divx disks obsolete. This is especially bad given that if you don't "own" the disk and Divx goes under, you can't watch any of your movies.
    -- DVD is availble for computers. Divx is not.
    -- The DVD people are not resorting to questionable "astroturf" campaigns to prop up sales.

    I'm writing this off the top of my head and might have missed something, but this right here shows that DVD is the no brainer choice. I wonder how many of the people who bought Divx were unsophisticated consumers talked into it by a Circuit City sales person? I'd guess a lot of them. I bet that few people who know the issues are choosing Divx.

  • DIVX is just allright with me, yea... (Score:3)

    by ewhac ( 5844 ) on Tuesday April 06, 1999 @01:24PM (#1947039) Homepage Journal

    Just to clarify, what specific aspects of dealing with video stores do you find hateful?

    Schwab

  • Best Buy coulda pulled it off (Score:4)

    by Skyshadow ( 508 ) on Tuesday April 06, 1999 @12:00PM (#1947040) Homepage
    Circuit City just isn't pervasive enough -- they're not in the small markets in the sort of way that a company like Best Buy is. There was no way they were ever going to pull this one off.

    BTW, has anybody else here noticed exactly how unhelpful the Best Buy web site is? I mean, for Christ's sake, I've seen better sites churned out by 12 year olds using Hotdog....

    ----

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