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Microsoft Hardware

Nokia Dials Back Time To Sell Mobile Phones Again (bbc.com) 128

Posted by msmash from the making-a-return dept.
Nokia said Thursday mobile phones carrying its brand will make a comeback via a new venture that will reunite the Nokia brand with veteran Nokia execs who aim to move into smartphones capitalizing on an existing operation that sells low-cost basic phones. From a report on BBC: It's thanks to a deal with a small team based at a business park on the fringes of Helsinki, who are engaged in what will seem to many a foolhardy mission. They call themselves HMD Global -- and they believe they can make Nokia a big name in mobile phones once again. I met Arto Nummela, Pekka Rantala and Florian Seiche in a cafe on what is still the Nokia campus. That very day Arto and Pekka had stopped working for the Nokia Windows mobile phone business owned by Microsoft -- because they had acquired both it and the Nokia brand to start their new business. Yes, it is complicated, but so is the recent history of what was just a few years back Europe's technology superpower and the biggest force in mobile phones. After the launch of the iPhone in 2007, Nokia faltered and by 2011 was on what its first American chief executive, Stephen Elop, called a burning platform. Then, the phone business was sold to Microsoft, which soon found it had made a disastrous purchase as the Nokia Windows combination failed to claim a significant slice of a market dominated by Apple's iOS and Android. Now, the Finnish business -- which remained a big force in telecoms infrastructure after the sale of the mobile unit -- has licensed the Nokia brand to HMD Global, which aims to take it back to the future.
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Nokia Dials Back Time To Sell Mobile Phones Again More

Nokia Dials Back Time To Sell Mobile Phones Again

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  • Nokia phones (Score:4, Insightful)

    by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ) on Thursday December 01, 2016 @10:15AM (#53401107)
    Nokia used to make terrific handsets. It was only when Elop, the worst CEO in history, took the reins that things went south precipitously. If Nokia starts designing handsets again, this time with Android, I'll be in principle interested.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bulled ( 956533 )
      This, I have very fond memories of my N900. It was a little rough around the edges when it launched, but the potential was there. I would take a Nokia handset with Android, but I really hope they have their sights set a little higher than that.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Elop was supposed to be terrible. The whole point was to depress the stock price for the coming Microsoft purchase.

      Enjoy reading this comment on your Microsoft run computer.

    • Elop was hired as CEO...what do you think happened to the previous CEO? Hint: He didn't get old and retire, he didn't get elected Emperor of Finland. Actually, he was fired for doing a bad job. A quick Google says that under the previous CEO, Nokia went from 38% to 21% in just four years, and he hadn't been able to come up with an adequate response to the Apple iPhone that re-made the industry.

      The worst thing you can say about Elop is that he took a company that was clearly already falling apart and in a

      • No. That would imply he at least tried to act in favor of the company's interests with a modicum of competence.

        Say, do you know the "Osborne effect" - when a company announces upcoming products too soon and kills demand for the current ones?

        Also, do you know the "Ratner effect" - when a company's leadership publicly attacks its own products, ruining their reputation?

        Put them together and you get the monstrosity of the "Elop effect".

        That lunatic stated that the still immensely popular Symbian was not competi

        • He sold a company that was in the process of going bankrupt to a big technology company that was desperate to enter the cell phone market. It was a smart move for the shareholders.

          The company was going to shit before he was ever hired as CEO. Him saying "Symbian sucks" was just acknowledging what was widely acknowledged in the marketplace. It was certainly not immensely popular. It was a complete joke compared to the iPhone or even Android 2. No rational person would look at Symbian, iPhone, or Android

          • Nonsense! Nokia was nowhere near bankrupt at the time. By Q4 2010 they were consistently profitable and Symbian still led at ~32% market share. Yes, other phone makers had moved away from it, but Nokia's own sales were mostly untouched - iOS and Android had grown mostly by taking customers from Palm, Blackberry, and Windows Mobile. And as Symbian was a more lightweight system, it would be easier to put it on low-cost devices. Expectations at the time were rather positive - if they could keep advancing Symbi

      • Oh he did quite a lot worse than not turn it around. Several of the cellphone companies back then are still around in some form or another. With the cash reserves they had they could have done a lot better.

    • If Nokia starts designing handsets again, this time with Android, I'll be in principle interested.

      Why do you care? Handsets these days are all just rectangle glass touch screens. And since the software is all third party there is nothing to design.
      Handsets are commodity items my next one will probably be a cheaper Chinese version that does 99% of the name brand for 2/3rds the price.

  • As long as they bring back just the awesome hardware, I'm fine, and may even buy a new Nokia phone.

    But please don't bring back that horrible Symbian OS.
    • This. I briefly owned an LG Android phone but I learned to hate it very soon for sw and hw reasons. Now I'm stuck with my old N9/N900. They're excellent phones and I love the OS. On a partly related note, Sailfish seems to be doing it right [techcrunch.com]. *pokes Nokia/HMD/Whatever*
    • Ok, it could use a lot more polishing than Nokia gave it.

      But:

      1. It can run Angry Birds.

      2. It can sync with a local PC, without depositing your address book and everything else on MS/Google/Apple servers

      3. It used to be open source, before it became open ... for business.

      4. It can run DOSBox.

  • There is a sizable market left out there (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    There are a lot of people who don't want smartphones. Nokia is legendary for its cellphones. Does this herald the return of the dumb phone?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Clsid ( 564627 )

      After you snap a picture of what you are seeing and are able to send that by email while at the same time check out a video of somebody goofing around, making a comeback to a dumb phone will only happen if you are broke or something.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by fotbr ( 855184 )

        I'd love to go back to one of their old candy-bar style phones that did nothing except be a phone. I don't care about texting. I don't care about data. I don't care about music. I don't care about photos. I don't care about video. I don't care about apps.

        I had my fun with smartphones over the years. I've changed.

        I want a phone like I had 15 or so years ago: One I can charge once every other week whether it needs it or not. Something with actual buttons that I can operate by feel, without having to

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          They still sell these for old people. Amazon shows the Kyocera Rally S1370, for instance.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Desler ( 1608317 )

      Define "a lot" in hard numbers and do provide the methodology at which you came at that number.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tetch ( 534754 )

      Does this herald the return of the dumb phone?

      Please oh please yes please please please ..... specifically, a phone that lasts 30 days between battery charges, and which isn't a fear-inducing mess of security holes needing constant updates (i.e. small attack surface please). Also, just a phone please. Don't need a camera built in - already have better cameras, that are just cameras.

      You can give it a flashlight function if you must - I might have very occasional use for that. But I will never want to surf the web on a goddam phone, okay ?

    • I still have a nokia phone -- my sixth in a row. Still with buttons. Best voice quality, small, light, not too-thin-to-hold. It's not my computer. It's my phone.

      So, for all of those people who can't actually work on a phone -- because our work is bigger than a phone, in the same way that a general contractor can't use a swiss army knife to build your house -- a great phone with buttons beats out a big phone with a touch screen every day.

      I'm happy to spend another $300+ on a nice durable quality phone with b

  • Linux ;-)

    • I sincerely hope so... the cost of a "Linux capable" platform is so low today as are the power requirements. Would you rather carry a bulletproof cellular telephone that costs $30, or a bulletproof cellular telephone with a fully functional computer embedded for $35?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Tx ( 96709 )

        Firstly, Android is Linux. But in the sense meant here, no. Quote from elsewhere [prnewswire.com]; "Future Nokia smartphones will utilise Google's Android operating system, currently deployed on 86% of the world's smartphones."

        Bringing another OS into play in a market that is sewn up by two major players is pretty much guaranteed to fail, and I really don't see what a Linux phone would do for the average consumer. Do really think Nokia/HMD Global should waste millions of Euros in R&D to develop a Linux phone distributio

        • Ah, do you mean something like this [wikipedia.org]?

          Nokia already did "waste millions of Euros in R&D to develop a Linux phone distribution". They would just be returning to their own project.

        • Kind of like the two party political system, eh?

          Jolla is a Nokia spinoff that's trying to meld Linux/Android functionality into a single platform, I lost track of them after they failed to deliver my tablet - not interested in their phones that don't work in my country.

        • Firstly, Android is Linux. But in the sense meant here, no.

          I think the parent poster might be referring to GNU/Linux.
          Android does use the Linux Kernel, but slaps a completely different user space atop of it.
          (Mostly written in "I Can't Believe it's Not Java(tm)" in addition a few core libraries replaced with alternatives that have non-GPL licensing, like the Bionic C library).

          Bringing another OS into play in a market that is sewn up by two major players is pretty much guaranteed to fail

          ...except if that 3rd OS does run the Apps of one of the 2 major players.
          Which is exactly what *Windows* failed to do (Android apps never got supported, at least the technology got recycled int

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • I sorely miss my Moto810 feature phone. It had a camera, it did e-mail, it lasted a week on a charge.

          When I say "I want Linux" - what I want is a desktop (can be LXDE or similar, but at least a task launch menu and multiple windows), I want a functional terminal on that desktop, and I want a package manager that can install a reasonable subset of the stuff you can get from Debian, or similar. I also want to be able to write custom software on a reasonably standard desktop system, with access to a reasonab

  • Not going to succeed. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Nokia made good phones back then. Phones consisted of strong plastic, antenna, and black and white LCD screen. Now smartphone needs good AP, OLED screen, camera, metal/glass casing, waterproof, good battery, etc. I don't think Nokia has skills on any of those. They'll probably come up with something similar to Blackberry Priv.
    I'm sure Nokia has some talented engineers, but they are competing with Apple/Google/Samsung engineers who already has a decade of experience of building smartphones and extremely tale

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Nokia doesn't have any experience building a good smartphone? You've never seen a Lumia have you? You think they've been doing nothing these past few years? Even while shackled to the MS ecosystem they were still building good hardware. If the Lumia had Android it would have sold well. From a construction and design point of view it was well built, sleek and had good battery life. The PureView camera that Nokia developed was fantastic for its time and shows that Nokia can still put together an impressive pa

  • Dare to be different! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday December 01, 2016 @10:50AM (#53401299)

    Build phones with a replaceable battery, with actual keys to type in a phone number or to flip up/down in the phone book, with slots for SD cards and plugs for micro USB.

    I know it sounds crazy, but I have that odd feeling that there just MIGHT be a market for something like this.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bazorg ( 911295 )

      How about a Nokia 3310, but with 4G and a wifi hotspot for your Nokia PC/tablet?
      Maybe they cannot compete in a world of $29 Android devices, but they could build PRO laptops and PRO tablets. With USB ports, Courage(tm) sockets, SD card slots, full HD screens and plastic shells with varied designs.

    • It IS crazy. You might as well buy a netbook computer, because that's how big and clunky the thing will be. There's simply no room on a modern 5.5" screen cellphone to put a physical keypad; either it's going to be huge (5.5" screen plus fixed keypad or keyboard), or it's going to be a slider, which have proven to have mechanical problems plus they're super-thick (this coming from someone who'd happily accept more thickness in exchange for a bigger battery). Not only that, the keypad will have limited us

      • Re:Dare to be different! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by LordWabbit2 ( 2440804 ) on Thursday December 01, 2016 @11:44AM (#53401655)
        And make it durable, and keep supporting upgrades regardless of how old the phone gets. I'm tired of buying a phone because the previous one just stopped working, or buying a new phone because stuff no longer runs on it since the OS is out of date. I would buy a phone that would last more than 5 years on that strength alone.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by _merlin ( 160982 )

          Where's the profit in that? If a phone lasts too long they can't make money selling you a new one, and providing updates for old phones is just a money sink from their PoV (unless they charge for updates, but you'd crucify them for that, too), Lack of updates for phones isn't new - even in Nokia's heyday (5110, 8110, 8850, 8210 etc.), firmware updates were relatively rare, and you had to pay a service centre to install them for you.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Higaran ( 835598 )
        I agree with you mostly, but I think that some people also what a good mid ranged handset. I have the Nexus 5x and I don't think I could find a better phone for the price when it came out, or even today. I just want something that is quick, all around not bad and I don't want to pay $600 ever year or even two for a new damn phone. For $700-$800 a flagship smart phone cost I could get a not too shabby laptop, phones really should not cost as much as they do. Google really messed up this year with the pixel

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I would pay more money for a "thicker" phone than the no slider/flipout KB equivalent that's a few millimeters thinner.

      • or it's going to be a slider, which have proven to have mechanical problems

        3rd party have successfully designed keyboard which are magnetic slide.
        (No mechanical parts. Just carefully aligned magnet that accept 2 stable positions. Either the keyboard stuck to the back of the smartphone, or stuck in "slide out position" with the keys available for typing and the pogo-pins aligned with the contacts).

        I you don't want the keyboard, you just remove it (un stick it).
        This of course requires the availability of pogo-pins.
        Jolla's phone and Fairphone's phone 2 were both designed with extra p

        • The removable keyboard bit sounds interesting, but for the non-Android OS that runs Android apps from Google's Play store, 1) has anyone actually demonstrated this is feasible, and 2) is it legally possible (would Google lock out such an OS)?

          • has anyone actually demonstrated this is feasible,

            As mentionned above, Myriad's Alien-Dalvik has and is the official commercial solution powering the Jolla Phone in my pocket (and what I use with countless android apps).
            I think I remember that this was also the official solution use by BlackBerry back when they offered Android Apps support on their (non-android) OS.
            This was also a solution considered for HP/Palm's webOS... but the whole platform went belly up before commercial deployment.

            SFDroid is another solution for SailfishOS, but opensource and thus u

      • I actually did have a phone with a tiny keyboard you could flip out underneath. Granted, it was a hint thicker than 2mm, but not much thicker than a contemporary iPhone with its "keeps the tinfoil phone from crumpling in your pocket" protection cover. And it didn't need a cover, so...

      • You might as well buy a netbook computer, because that's how big and clunky the thing will be. There's simply no room on a modern 5.5" screen cellphone to put a physical keypad; either it's going to be huge (5.5" screen plus fixed keypad or keyboard), or it's going to be a slider, which have proven to have mechanical problems plus they're super-thick

        What a load of crap. My Samsung slider isn't even 12mm thick; that's considerably thinner than other things I carry in my pockets, and thinner than the feature-phones people happily carried for years. No, it doesn't have a 5.5" screen, but many of us don't see any need for a fucking 5.5" screen either - particularly not when we have a physical keyboard. And it has a removable battery and an SD card slot.

        Physical keyboards may not be popular with smartphone buyers, but that's not because they make phones too

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Clsid ( 564627 )

      Just go and get a Blackberry Passport or Classic. Everything you are asking minus the replaceable battery. Does not seem to be faring well.

      The keyboard thing does not make sense though, not only because its size, but as soon as you need to type stuff in a different language, it becomes painfully obvious you need another system in place.

    • As good as gorilla glass is now, they could probably make a phone with a big touch display on one side, and a smaller display and a keypad on the other. Seems like that would satisfy everyone, except those who want a replaceable battery. It would be thicker, but that's OK.

    • but I have that odd feeling that there just MIGHT be a market for something like this.

      It's competing with all the other phone targetted at grandparents.

      As much as you think there's a market for this, 100 slashdot users don't really count. Remember the market itself has chosen.

      • What market has chosen? Apple has chosen to produce an iPhone and people can buy it or not have an iPhone. And people buy it.

        Remember how market economy was supposed to be? Suppliers offering choices and people being the decider what sells and what doesn't? What choice do I have? If I want a more or less modern phone, I have to swallow that it's going to have a soldered battery with an anemic lifetime because it's paper thin, along with the phone not being much thicker and needing a protective cover so it d

        • What market has chosen? Apple has chosen to produce an iPhone and people can buy it or not have an iPhone. And people buy it.

          One company, let's broaden the example. Apple introduces a phone without a keyboard and no interchangable battery. In the mean time the market is flooded with various other phones including those with full keyboards, flip phones, ports, batteries and whatnot. Over time the keyboards disappear? Why? Same reason the stock prices of the vendors' products plummeted, no one bought that. Even within a vendor you can see trial and trends. Good old Samsungs had always had an interchangable battery right up to the S

    • Build phones with a replaceable battery, with actual keys to type in a phone number or to flip up/down in the phone book, with slots for SD cards and plugs for micro USB.

      I know it sounds crazy, but I have that odd feeling that there just MIGHT be a market for something like this.

      Really? Because outside of nerd forums I see no real demand for any of this. And even in here most people don't care for it.
      USB charging is good, so you can use anyone else's charger, and a head phone jack is good, because most people don't own stupid BT headphones. But outside that the rest is negligible.

  • For the last 16 years, I have been using Nokia phones except for 1 HTC phone in between. My current phone is a Lumia. I bought it mainly because it's a Nokia. If Nokia makes phones I again, my next phone will also be a Nokia - I don't care what software it runs.

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