HP To Jettison Up To 30,000 Jobs As Part of Spinoff 273
An anonymous reader writes: Hewlett-Packard says its upcoming spinoff of its technology divisions focused on software, consulting and data analysis will eliminate up to 30,000 jobs. The cuts announced Tuesday will be within the newly formed Hewlett Packard Enterprise, which is splitting from the Palo Alto, California company's personal computer and printing operation. "The new reductions amount to about 10 percent of the new company's workforce, and will save about $2.7 billion in annual operating costs." The split is scheduled to be completed by the end of next month. "The head of the group, Mike Nefkens, outlined a plan under which it is cutting jobs in what he called 'high-cost countries' and moving them to low-cost countries. He said that by the end of HP Enterprise’s fiscal year 2018, only 40 percent of the group’s work force will be located in high-cost countries."
To the other Republicans... (Score:5, Funny)
pretty near all the US contingent, then (Score:2)
slap those resumes up all over town, leave them gasping from their own poison gas.
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Actually, Carly can say... (Score:2)
Re:Actually, Carly can say... (Score:5, Insightful)
That isn't a meg or a carly thing really. This has been in the works for a long time, pretty much since the HP touchpad flop. Basically the purpose behind the split was because the consumer division (printers, desktops, touchpad) would frequently drag the enterprise division (servers, networking gear, storage gear, which generally does pretty well) into the mud along with its routinely shitty performance.
They likewise believe that if they have a more stable stock for the enterprise division, it would be easier to attract investors.
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If the Touchpad was a flop, what do you call writing off $5 billion after buying Autonomy?
It's too bad they didn't bother updating the hardware on the Touchpad. It would have been current had it been released a year earlier. The 7" Touchpad Go would have been nice too. :(
Call it what it is... (Score:3)
If the Touchpad was a flop, what do you call writing off $5 billion after buying Autonomy?
It's too bad they didn't bother updating the hardware on the Touchpad. It would have been current had it been released a year earlier. The 7" Touchpad Go would have been nice too. :(
I'd say it was a pure corruption play. Clearly someone(s) got that $5B. The touchpad was pure tragedy - WebOS sounds like the second coming of BeOS - a great OS with great ideas that just came a bit too late to the party (and didn't have the blessing of the corporate elite).
Also keep in mind Microsoft's Skype acquisition (which in hindsight doesn't seem as bad - if MS would actually merge Skype into Windows or Office...) - the common factor being that since the money being used to purchase the offshore c
Re:To the other Republicans... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, there are a lot better grounds to attack Carly. Like today, she rails against the Iran agreement, but as HP CEO, she authorized a foreign subsidiary - Redington Gulf - to sell HP products into Iran, in order to get around the sanctions. She criticizes Trump for his immigration stance, but as HP CEO and even as McCain's advisor (when he ran for president), she supported amnesty, just like McCain did.
For the record, I do agree w/ most of the GOP platform. I just think that Carly would be as bad as Bush or Gramm if she was elected.
Re:To the other Republicans... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sanders is too old? That's the best you can come up with?
He's not *that* old; McCain was as old. And Sanders seems to be in good health. I'm sure he can handle 4 years before he croaks. I'd rather take my chances with him rather than any of these other clowns (including corrupt Hillary).
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
You can thank the other Clinton for that (Score:3)
ha (Score:3, Interesting)
The Republican party was founded by religious conservatives who were opposed to the sin of slavery. The only-give-a-damn-about-themselves-and-money wing of the GOP were originally the Whigs who were the party in opposition to the Democrats before the Republican party was created. Like all such people, they were too self-centered to take up an "icky" moral cause. When they made it clear that they had no principles beyond their own wealth and comfort, the American public rejected them and their party collaps
Re:To the other Republicans... (Score:4, Interesting)
The GOP left me, but for exactly the opposite reason. 8 years of Bush, where after 9/11, he kept gushing about Islam and kissing @$$ to the Saudis, Qataris & Paks. Opening the doors wide open to illegal immigration in an attempt to make the Hispanic vote the GOP's Black vote. Signing campaign finance reform, and capitulating on the Gang of 14. Speaking of which, McCain becoming the GOP nominee in 2008 was the last straw: even though I disagreed completely w/ Obama, I was glad that he knocked both Hilary and McCain out of the race.
In the current party, I support Cruz, but I'm glad Trump is in - he is the one person who can outspend Bush, who'd otherwise have gotten the nomination. The GOP establishment would normally have backed Jeb against anyone else to give him a headstart, but in this case, they dare not, since they fear Trump is capable of pulling off a third party run, if they piss him off too much. I want Trump to burn out Jeb's money machine: he's the one guy capable of it. Once he's done, I'd be fine w/ either him or Cruz getting to the top of the ticket.
buy-back stock payoff (Score:5, Insightful)
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What is interesting, these guys are motivated mostly by their short-to-medium term gains, without tracking bigger picture ( in a way they act very rationally ). Of course, not all optimizations for short-term may not necessary be good in longer term course ( like asus/dell story , or other ideas whereas engineering and manufacturing capabilities are moved to other countries ). Not sure there is any way around it unless understood and acted upon on higher levels of decision process (which seems unlikely, aft
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"Most of the cuts will occur in HPâ(TM)s long-troubled Enterprise Services unit and may be offset by new hires in that unit."
E.S. is basically what they are selling off. Most of the jobs will be bought by an outsourcing company. It was on this site not too long ago, and in the summary so you could avoid the article.
I know at least 500 people from HPES, and there are overpaid and underpaid people. Guess who gets the axe? That's right, the overpaid people. Not the "expensive and worth it" but overpaid.
I'
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Related: 1h ago I was called by a HP representative to get me hired. My interview is Friday.
Note: I live in a low-cost country and HP has been hiring like crazy, 20% of my co-workers have already moved to HP. They pay slightly better than my current employer (which is arguably bigger than HP globally but have a shitty salary process) and from what I've heard they have a good working environment.
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Quite often the "troublemakers" are also gotten rid off in such a step. You know, those people that insist on a strategic view, that want R&D, that want IT security to not suck, etc. These are usually those that ensure a tech company has a future.
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"Most of the cuts will occur in HPâ(TM)s long-troubled Enterprise Services unit and may be offset by new hires in that unit."
E.S. is basically what they are selling off. Most of the jobs will be bought by an outsourcing company. It was on this site not too long ago, and in the summary so you could avoid the article.
I know at least 500 people from HPES, and there are overpaid and underpaid people. Guess who gets the axe? That's right, the overpaid people. Not the "expensive and worth it" but overpaid.
I'm guessing lots of middle management cuts, where people built a team to look important but do little.
Job cuts aren't always bad, sometimes the job should never have existed.
How else can you do the opposite of a merger and save money? Hiring cheap replacements is a very tiny part of the answer. Take your knee jerk cynicism elsewhere, and meanwhile learn before posting. All if it was posted right here, in dorkslush, so you didn't have to exert much energy at all.
Here, from the article itself. Think of it as a middle finger to your post, or think about it as unfounded knee jerking, whichever suits you best.
Most of the cuts will occur in HP’s long-troubled Enterprise Services unit and may be offset by new hires in that unit. The head of the group, Mike Nefkens, outlined a plan under which it is cutting jobs in what he called “high-cost countries” and moving them to low-cost countries.
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The number of old timers who were just hanging on in the old EDS world was staggering. I think it was a product of EDS getting really big during the
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Indeed. Anything for their bonus and fuck the company and its employees. These people are dangerous psychos without even a shred of honor or integrity.
The old game (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the old game. They bring in some skilled foreigners "via H1-B" (from Malaysia, India, Vietnam, etc). They work alongside the American team. The managers tell the engineers to get them up to speed. A year later those folks go back to the home country where it is cheaper. the Americans are expected to work internationally as a team with them.
Next, coincidentally, the CEO announces an option for employees to get a payout for those that would like to leave. A few months later, the CEO announces job cuts typically 10% and focuses on the mid level management and engineering teams that taught the H1-B folks.
This happens all the time. I was glad I took the payout and saw the writing on the wall.
Remember if you are expected to teach foreigners your work and they overlap your team's skill set, within a year or two you will be gone.
Exactamundo... apk (Score:2, Insightful)
I saw the same TOO many times, & did something about it: I got into my OWN business where the product literally can't be "built overseas" & everyone needs it - It literally allowed me to ALMOST completely stop working as a software engineer/programmer analyst/network admin completely (actually, I could totally stop, & I've proven that to myself for the 2008-2013 period as a test of sorts... wasn't easy, scared the hell out of me taking that risk, but I wanted... no NEEDED to know I could pull it
Re:Exactamundo... apk (Score:5, Funny)
Best advice I could give ANYONE? Don't get into a "want" line of business - get into a NEED line instead (people wanting is VERY SECONDARY to needing).
Excellent advice. That's how Apple made truckloads of cash: because people NEED iPhones and iPads, and why Safeway got in financial trouble (since people merely "want" food).
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Best advice I could give ANYONE? Don't get into a "want" line of business - get into a NEED line instead (people wanting is VERY SECONDARY to needing).
Excellent advice. That's how Apple made truckloads of cash: because people NEED iPhones and iPads, and why Safeway got in financial trouble (since people merely "want" food).
APK doesn't respond to posts that invalidate what he wants to believe. He pretends not to notice those posts.
He'll probably notice this one though, rant about this and that, etc.
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Markets that lean toward the "needs" tend to be rather stable forms of employment. For example, please see agriculture. OTOH, "wants" based markets are risky, yet can be very rewarding and profitable during boom times, yet suck wind during a bust. For example, please see Las Vegas.
Are you aware that the US government is spending on average 97 billions PER YEAR on subsidies and misc support programs for farmers? That's the only reasons farms haven't collapsed.
Meanwhile, gaming and tourism in Las Vegas generates a cool 50 billions every year. That's about 14 billions in wages that benefit 40% of the Southern Nevada workforce. And if you look at the economic growth curve, you'll see pretty much a stable increase over the last century.
"Common sense economics" is never a good alternative
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Your counterexample is concise, but is it generally applicable? I mean, how many companies have tried to be Apple, and failed? And there sure are a lot of successful grocery stores.
I'm not saying you are incorrect, merely that your example doesn't make a good case. You'd want to look at the median case of companies that tried to fill "wants" versus "needs", by some metric that, uh, you get to run by APK. Hopefully you aren't in his hosts file...
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Let me quote Baz Luhrmann on this.
Be careful whose advice you buy but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth
from Everybody's Free (to Wear Sunscreen)
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Excellent advice. ...
everyone loves sarcasm and there's never enough around somehow
I totally agree and I appreciate that you didn't use sarcasm to make your point.
Re:Exactamundo... apk (Score:5, Funny)
In other words: HVAC.
It seems they lost the HP way long ago (Score:5, Interesting)
So the investors and executives cared more for the quick buck instead of long-term growth of the company. What a shame...
Re:It seems they lost the HP way long ago (Score:5, Insightful)
So the investors and executives cared more for the quick buck instead of long-term growth of the company. What a shame...
This is how Wall Street works. Investors no longer hold stock for a long time, merely cashing in dividends. They want the stock price to go up, quick. So they vote for board members who will promote that agenda. Then board members hire a management team that can deliver the agenda. The stock price goes up, the investors sell to other investors. Rince and repeat.
What is amazing is that the investors who have the most influence in this process are institutional investors (such as pension funds) who need to make a profit with their investments to meet their own needs (such as paying out pensions). So in order to make a profit, those large investors drive a short-term agenda that, globally, hurts their customer base. With one hand they give you a 8% return in your 401(k), with the other one they drive your employer (and many others) to the brink of destruction by always forcing executives to think short term.
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I wonder what's left of HP that anyone should bother? The MRI equipment, oscilloscopes and other high end electronic instrumentation equipment - things that HP was renowned for - are today a part of Agilent. What HP had left was EDS (and Mphasis), and the computer division.
Now that HPES is spun off, what's really left? PCs? One can get better PCs - either from Microsoft itself - the Surface Pros, or from the Taiwan guys - Acer, Asus, Lenovo, et al. If one's talking servers, why prefer HP to De
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I wonder what's left of HP that anyone should bother?
HP is currently the largest vendor for my employer, we buy a ton of servers. HP also has "Moonshot" [hp.com], the workload-optimized blade project. And they have a private cloud offering [hpcloud.com].
Cisco used to be our largest vendor (switches, specialty gear, UCS). For the time being, HP is very competitive on servers and switches.
In other news... (Score:3)
...there is no longer a shortage of STEM resources in the US.
Mission Accomplished!
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It gets better, when Meg Whitman runs for president, she can also tell us all how she created 30k jobs! (In China and Malaysia)
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It sounds like the layoffs are mostly HP Enterprise people though. You know, IT drones. Not Science and Engineering people.
HP will never recover from the Cold War era when the government would spend infinite amounts of money for the absolute best quality. That doesn't happen anymore. Even Agilent needs to be cost-concious now. The boomers who climbed aboard the company in the 80's thinking they had jobs forever in the back labs have for the most part figured it out, but they're still inclined to blame
spinning off Enterprise? (Score:4, Interesting)
"The purge announced Tuesday will occur within the newly formed Hewlett Packard Enterprise, a bundle of technology divisions focused on software, consulting and data analysis that is splitting off from the company's personal computer and printing operations."
Wha? They are keeping consumer business, spinning off the Enterprise business, and it will be moving to low wage nations?!?! I thought enterprise was the high paying american jobs, and consumer was the cheap, crappy stuff that would get outsourced to China?
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Reminds me of that bit from George Carlin about gun control...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Yes, the consumer stuff is the cheap products outsourced from China. However what they probably are doing is keeping a small workforce in high wage countries to interface with the enterprise customers. They will gather requirements, do the installs, etc. All of the actual development work will get shipped off to lower wage countries. So most of the people that never dealt with the customers are the ones that got cut.
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And that is why you are simply no CEO material. Too much logical thinking, not enough setting up company for failure and awaiting golden parachutes.
So..... (Score:2)
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Workers are the consumables.
HP shouldn't lay off people (Score:4, Funny)
They should keep paying 30,000 people they don't need. Shouldn't they?
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Re:HP shouldn't lay off people (Score:5, Insightful)
They are rehiring them in "cheaper" countries.
you 20 and 30somethings in software out there: take heed! you have, at best, 5-10 years before all software is outsourced.
your software degree? will be useless and you won't even be able to pay your student loans out.
this country (US) is very quickly going to hell. we all see it, don't we? some are more insulated than others, but its spreading like a disease. the ceo's are robbing us of what made us great; they are stealing all the profits and keeping us around just long enough but not longer than necessary. we are all short timers now.
still think that unions are not needed? lets check back again in 5 yrs and see how the sw industry is doing in the US. my guess is that it will be way worse as time goes on. can anyone show me any signs of it getting better?
since ceo's are patted on the back each time they do a mass-firing of US workers, it will be you, sooner or later. you don't think so, but you just wait. sadly, no one wants to form a union in IT and so we'll all hang separately since we REFUSE to hang together.
really breaks my heart to see us all taken for chumps like this. american ceo's are pond scum but they are powerful land-owning money-keeping pond scum.
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According to Glassdoor, there are 104,828 openings for software engineers in the US, and the average base salary is $98,074.
Just because one company is re-orging doesn't mean the entire industry is going under. There will continue to be plenty of new software engineering jobs both inside and outside of the US.
It is true that the number of people working as electrical engineers in the US declined by 29,000 last year, but the number of software developers increased by nearly 12%, or a gain of 132,000 jobs.
Th
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since ceo's are patted on the back each time they do a mass-firing of US workers, it will be you, sooner or later. you don't think so, but you just wait. sadly, no one wants to form a union in IT and so we'll all hang separately since we REFUSE to hang together.
As someone who worked in a 75% union company with more than 1000 employees, part of a multinational group, I can tell you first hand from experience that the existence of a union has done nothing for us. More than half of us are standing in line waiting for government handouts, me, I left the country to look for work elsewhere.
The only thing the union achieved in all it's years was protect slackers who considered sick leave to be an "entitlement" that they could take whenever they wanted, and then complaine
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Like manufacturing, there will be a lot of low end software jobs moved overseas. Like manufacturing, it is possible to keep a large work force of high end developers employed. Maybe not in the US where short term profit is everything, but you can move to places like Germany where you will get a similar or better standard of living and this type of outlook. Germany still has very strong manufacturing.
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So they should just keep paying extremely high taxes and bay area salaries rather than try to find a better deal?
Sounds like they're pulling an IBM (Score:5, Insightful)
IBM has been doing these kinds of layoffs for decades. If you read the article, it looks like they're planning on rehiring some of the same positions. This can be either one of the following:
- Jettisoning "expensive" older, experienced workers that just happen to not be working on today's buzzword set (cloud and mobile in today's case) and replacing them with fresh young "talented" Millenials
- Dumping everyone overboard and just moving the work wholesale to India or similar low cost countries.
This is the MO for IBM nowadays. They're dumping hardware, but they're also trying to turn themselves into some kind of white shoe management consulting firm. To do this, you need to raise profit margins on service contracts, and this is the obvious choice,
I've worked in some very big companies and I've seen my share of dead wood. I've seen managers who no longer have a team but are still somehow on the payroll, I've seen people who literally do nothing all day because their job has been taken over by someone else, and all the other fun/scary examples. But when you're talking about 30,000 employees, that's not all dead wood. If I had to guess, they're killing off the remainder of the EDS guys who know mainframe stuff inside and out. I work in the airline industry and I'm sure those experienced guys look like a juicy target to an MBA or accountant, regardless of how much they know and how awful their Indian, Vietnamese or other replacement is going to be.
God damn it, what a tragedy the loss of HP is... (Score:5, Insightful)
The loss of HP, as it was from perhaps 1950 to 2000, wasn't just the loss of a brand or a manufacturer, it was the loss of an art form, a craft, a cherished part of engineering culture.
Their stuff was just so damn good, all of it.
A little detail that isn't often mentioned. In the 1980s or thereabouts, everything HP advertised was real. They never played the vaporware game, they never cheated just a bit on timing the ads. If you saw the ad in a magazine, it was finished, it was real, you could order it, it would arrive in a week or two--and it would work the way it was supposed to and meet all the specs. This, in a day when their competitors would run ads based on models or empty cases up to six months before the product was finished.
Using an incandescent light bulb as a feedback element in their audio oscillators was sheer elegance.
All their instruments were works of art. All of them had front panels that today's user interface designers ought to be studying. All the groupings made sense, almost every control was individually designed to perform its intended function. HP instruments looked good, felt good, were easy to use, and did exactly what they were supposed to do.
The first LaserJet was a revelation, and it worked perfectly, The first DeskJet was in many ways even more amazing--a 300 dpi printer for $600 when laser printers cost $3,000 and every other $600 machine was about 80 dpi if you were lucky.
HP's desk calculators were sweet, and the HP-35 was just a revelation when it came out. Everyone was proud of being able to do a square root, and here's this beautiful thing. Did everything a slide rule could do, everything, to ten-place accuracy when a slide rule would get you at most three. And, again unlike the competition--most particularly unlike TI--the math was impeccable, no glitches, no odd cases--they knew their numerical analysis and they got it right. RPN seemed weird, but at least it was consistent.The competition could never get this right--they would claim that you entered it "algebraically" but you would key in 30, then "sin" instead of sin(30).
The loss of the engineering days of HP was the loss of a whole discipline, a whole body of corporate memory on how to do things right. An irreparable loss of know-how. And it was engineering in the full sense of the word--these weren't self-indulgent overengineered toys, they were priced competitively and sold against competition in a real marketplace--and they were still so good.
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I'd forgotten all about that. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
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Remember that HP (The real HP that made electronic test equipment) was spun off into Agilent which was recently spun off again into Keysight Technoogies.
(2009)
HP -> HP (Computers, Printers etc)
-> Agilent (Life Sciences, Electronic Test)
(2014)
Agilent -> Agilent (Life Sciences etc)
-> Keysight Technologies (Electronic Test)
So when you talk to engineers about HP, we think Agilent and now Keysight as having the original DNA of HP
Re:God damn it, what a tragedy the loss of HP is.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I collect, repair and use classic test gear. I have a good collection of tektronix, hp, keithley, fluke (pretty much all 'just names' at this point; danaher ruined most of them, sigh). the old stuff is amazing, almost magic. the new stuff is overpriced (even by hp standards) and is not designed to last. on the eevblog forum, there was a big thread about an agilent high-end handheld DMM that bricked itself during a fw update and hp's reply was 'sorry, we can't fix it; its not fixable by design'. really??? what the fuck! no backup boot block and no way to jtag fix it? you can't be serious. big stink on eevblog and it taught many of us that we should now avoid hp^H^Hagilent^H^Hkeysight for test/meas gear.
the stuff they make now will never be called 'classic'. its all disposble and even the chinese scopes like rigol and its ilk beat the snot out of the old school brand names, that pretty much invented the tech, 50 or more years ago.
I interviewed at hp in palo alto a few months ago. it took months, they dragged their feet, they could not decide, they could not define what they wanted and after nearly a whole day there, they gave me a thumbs down with no reason given. months of 'we want you!' bullshit from the recruiter only to find that the team does not even know what it wants.
you'd have to be nuts to apply to hp (or amazon, for that matter) these days. perhaps I dodged a bullet by not getting the job at hp.
gotta say, though, the inside of HP looked quite dreary. lame-ass open office, no space for personal stuff, not even cups in the break room (seriously; I had to ask to borrow someone's coffee mug at their desk when I 'dared' ask for some water to keep near me during my interview.)
HP is dead. parts of it don't know it yet, but they are 'dead men walking'.
really a shame. HP was a tier-1 company in their day. when I was starting out, working for DEC or HP or Sun or SGI was the best place to be (all high end unix and unix-like workstation companies and all were great to work for back in the day). now, what do we have? essentially none of those computer companies are around anymore. their culture, which was a valuable part of who they were, has all washed away, as well. the 'hp way' died 15 years ago or more.
What do we need? STEM!!! Oh and cheap. (Score:5, Insightful)
What do we need?
STEM Jobs!
Where do we need them?
Cheap labor cost countries!
What STEM jobs can Americans do?
Train their foreign replacements!
What can congress do!
More H1-B's, we need cheap STEM labor and we need it now.
What can you do?
Don't be a lowly middle class American, be a CEO of a STEM company and outsource your way to quarterly profits. If that doesn't work, reorganize and break up business units and sell them off. Maybe hookup with a corporate raider like Ichan and rack up a lot of debt, pay large dividends to shareholders then go bankrupt.
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> a corporate raider like Ichan
I shudder to think what that messageboard would look like...
Look at what happened to Delphi Automotive (Score:4, Insightful)
Coincidence (Score:2)
Amazingly, the VP idiots who decided to fire the 30,000 people will all get raises that add up to the exact salary of the 30,000 people.
This is all a complete coincidence.
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Meg Whitman's salary in 2015 is $1.5 million, only 16 times the average $90K HP salary.
Her overall compensation package valued at $19.6 million (including a stock award valued at $8.1 million, stock options worth $5.3 million, a $4.3 million incentive award and $295,400 in perks, including $251,000 for personal use of private aircraft). This would be 218 times the average $90K HP salary.
In other words, the H in HP stands for Hellhole. (Score:2)
...outlined a plan under which it is cutting jobs in what he called 'high-cost countries' and moving them to low-cost countries. He said that by the end of HP Enterprise’s fiscal year 2018, only 40 percent of the group’s work force will be located in high-cost countries."
It's just an easier way to say that they don't like their workers having any freedom.
Meaning (Score:2)
They've jettisoned what's left of EDS. Another HP investment that's turned to shit although EDS was going downhill when HP bought them.
Re:Carcass of a great company (Score:5, Funny)
...At least remove Bill and Dave's names from the company at least. The company that exists now has nothing to do with either of them.
But that's the only thing of value now...
Re:Carcass of a great company (Score:5, Insightful)
Now that the greedy VC hawks are swirling around even more so. HP is as good as dead.
At least remove Bill and Dave's names from the company at least. The company that exists now has nothing to do with either of them.
Maybe name the company to FW or Fiorina-Whitman
Really, the HP name should have gone to Agilent when they spun them off, and the remnants of the company could have taken the name EDS, which was the part of the company that Carly was really interested in.
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At the rate they're going, before too much longer HP will be just 2 guys in a garage.
Re:Jettison != Outsourcing (Score:5, Informative)
Here's more of the article around the cuts:
Most of the cuts will occur in HP’s long-troubled Enterprise Services unit and may be offset by new hires in that unit. The head of the group, Mike Nefkens, outlined a plan under which it is cutting jobs in what he called “high-cost countries” and moving them to low-cost countries.
Many companies have layoffs but they don't disappear. The reason is that the layoffs aren't "reductions in force", they are mass firings of people who are expensive due to seniority or bad negotiations from better times. The company then turns around and hires almost the same number of people, but at a lower rate.
This is frequently done by going to cheaper countries (which is what Nefkins is actually quoted here as saying), which means that this is effectively equivalent to an outsourcing. Either they will really outsource those jobs, or they will hire people in "outsource-worthy" labor markets. That makes this an outsource in all but name and perhaps organizational detail.
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Total Annual Compensation, USD 1,500,060
Restricted Stock Awards, USD 8,147,640
Long-Term Incentive Plans, USD --
All Other, USD 9,964,470
Fiscal Year Total, USD 19,612,200
Nefkins does pretty well for him$elf:
Basic Compensation
Total Annual Compensation, USD 700,027
Restricted Stock Awards, USD 3,437,150
Long-Term Incentive Plans, USD --
All Other, USD 2,851,780
Fiscal Year Total, USD 6,988,960
Re:Jettison != Outsourcing (Score:5, Insightful)
There will be a vigorous discussion here on Thursday about what went on during the Republican debates (Wednesday, tomorrow).
Trump is completely against this outsourcing thing. He sees quite clearly the damage it does to our workforce, and how it's turning the country into a 3rd world nation.
Unlike the other candidates, he doesn't have to promise anything to super PACs just to get campaign donations. We're starting to see the fallout from this, as at least one [go.com] supar-PAC has declared war on Donald Trump.
And for comparison, note that about 6 months before becoming president, [then] Senator Obama voted *for* telecom immunity. After he had promised to vote against it [politifact.com]. And the measure didn't need his vote to pass - it already had enough support for that.
As a result several telecoms donated to his campaign and he ultimately won.
Keep this job-loss article in mind as you listen to the candidates on Wednesday. Most of them are career politicians, and we know how they actually voted on some of these issues.
If you want to compete with 30,000 new job hunters because your company outsourced to another country, feel free to vote for a politician.
Of course, your company will offer you 3 months of extra employment if you agree to train your replacement, so it's not all bad!
Increase H1B Visas (Senate) (source [govtrack.us])
YEAs: 67 (D = 52, R = 14, I = 2)
NAYs: 32 (D = 0, R = 32, I = 0)
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I'm curious. What do you think a POTUS can do about outsourcing, except be against it?
How do you stop a transnational corporation from moving jobs to other countries in an age of big-dollar corporate lobbying? You think Trump is gonna call for a boycott?
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I don't know. Why don't we start with:
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I'm curious. What do you think a POTUS can do about outsourcing, except be against it?
How do you stop a transnational corporation from moving jobs to other countries in an age of big-dollar corporate lobbying? You think Trump is gonna call for a boycott?
The president can stop bad laws from passing.
Additionally, Trump in particular is an expert at negotiations and making deals.
For comparison, note that our current ambassador to Japan is Caroline Kennedy [google.com], who is largely a poor choice [washingtontimes.com].
That last link was from the State Department's internal audit of our Japanese ambassador.
We have a long list of trade deals which supercede the constitution and make Americans miserable. We're currently working on the Trans Pacific Partnership [wikipedia.org], which extends copyright protection
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Now I want you to try to focus like a laser beam on the topic at hand: outsourcing.
What do you see President Trump doing about outsourcing except being "against it"?
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How do you stop a transnational corporation from moving jobs to other countries in an age of big-dollar corporate lobbying?
Perhaps I'm naive, but I always thought this could be accomplished by political leaders who had the integrity and the balls to actually represent the best interests of the majority of their constituents. If a company's ability to sell its products and services in a country were dependent on the number and quality of jobs it provided in that country, (as tended to be the case before globalization was rammed up our asses with the promise that it would be 'better for everyone'), then we wouldn't be bleeding so
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He'll build a wall. Out of Mexicans.
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I'm afraid that I really miss "www.fuckedcompany.com". It used to be _the_ place to go for insider corporate rumors on layoffs and outsourcing, and I knew several people who were first warned of layoffs there. It was a vicious website, but a great place to get insider information about what companies were really like on the inside. I considered checking that website to be part of my due diligence when working with a new client or partner.
H-1Bs? (Score:2)
Most of the cuts will occur in HPâ(TM)s long-troubled Enterprise Services unit and ay be offset by new hires in that unit.
Any bets on how many of the new hires will be H-1Bs? Or if the total of the H-1Bs hired in the "offset hiring" plus the last year or so before the layoffs will approximate the number of US citizens laid off?
Re:Jettison != Outsourcing (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Jettison != Outsourcing (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:won't solve much (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:won't solve much (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish the mods would come in and somehow make your post a nobler green. Or maybe just like, 3D. Or (Score: 7, Poignantly Sad And Explanatory).
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And who are you exactly?
Re: Union's aren't looking so bad now, are they? (Score:3, Insightful)
GM didn't fail because of anything that the unions did, the workers could have been free and they would still have been in trouble. Why? Because the problem was on the finance end of things, where the executives had put the company in perpetual hock, but then along came the Wall Street meltdown.
Oops. Crash.
Operationally, GM and Chrysler were running a general profit. All the bankruptcy proceedings did was allow them to coerce their various associates into more favorable terms, like jettisoning some bran
Re:Get out there and shop! (Score:5, Interesting)
"Hmm, what happens when you have no customers left in the "high-cost countries" to buy your kit?"
Well, you'll sell them to the high-grow countries, which happen to be those where you outsourced to.
Think of it: where would you want to be selling printers in ten years? A country already full of printers, where you can only sell for those that break and less paper is used at home, or to a country which is growing and basically doesn't have one?
Do you think HP gives a damn if it's selling devices and services to USA or the new generation of growing companies and middle class in India?
And even if it ended up utterly wrong in ten years, do you think the high executives that will get their ginormous bonuses in less than five will give a damn?
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It's a printer business. The goal is no to sell printers at all. Those take a loss. The lucrative parts of the industry is consulting, services, and parts. In that regard your existing customer base is most definitely your cash cow.
Often to break into new markets you start competing heavily on a cost basis with competitors, whereas with support and service contracts you have a monopoly on your own existing gear.
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What, actual capitalist thinking? That is so yesterday. Today, unreflected greed is the new capitalism!
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no, those are not the low margin businesses. guess again
Or just make it a royal PITA to offshore. (Score:2)
First, repeal the 1965 Immigration Act and subsequent guest worker programs.
Next, place large penalties on offshoring such that a greater reward comes from a direct-hire, indefinite-term, FTE, majority-US/First World workforce.
Finally, calculate a penalty that will reward repatriation by making it costlier to keep things offshore. To twist the knife, employ individuals that the private sector has offshored, ignored in hiring, or given involuntary early retirement.
After that is all done, then they can have
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unless your child is a dog. Specifically, a big dog. 'cos, let the big dog eat :)