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Input Devices

Modular Touchpad Aims To Replace Most Input Devices 76

Posted by Soulskill from the wacom-gets-nervous dept.
An anonymous reader writes: Wired reports on the 'Sensel Morph' input device, which launched on Kickstarter yesterday and blew past its funding goal almost immediately. It's a tablet-sized touchpad, but the key feature is the ability to place custom overlays on it. For example, you can snap on a flexible keyboard and the device starts behaving like a normal keyboard. Other overlays can imitate a game controller or a musical instrument. It's sensitive enough to detect paintbrushes, or you can put a simple overlay on it and use pencil or pen. The magnetic connectors in these overlays tell the device how to process the input, and they're making an open source API so developers can create their own. The touchpad has 20,000 individual sensors, with pressure sensitivity ranging from 5g to 5kg.
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Modular Touchpad Aims To Replace Most Input Devices More

Modular Touchpad Aims To Replace Most Input Devices

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  • Out of Touch (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @10:38AM (#50395241)

    At what point will the tactile experience come back?

    • What are you even talking about? You can buy a buckling-spring mechanical keyswitch keyboard right now, they never went away. You just have to go look for them.

  • link to the actual thing (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @10:39AM (#50395253)

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1152958674/the-sensel-morph-interaction-evolved [kickstarter.com]

    • Thanks for the direct link. It looks neat. It's reminiscent of the TI 99/4A and its overlays for the membrane keyboard, but with multiple levels of pressure sensitivity like a single-touch drawing pad.

      I think the flexibility could be nice, and it may work as a quick input device for my phone. There's no way that little mat is going to replace a mechanical keyboard for gamers, software developers, sysadmins, or others who use a keyboard heavily though.

  • Yeah right... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @10:40AM (#50395255)

    Prediction: Will ship late, underdeliver, and will replace zero input devices for 99.999% of people.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by janoc ( 699997 )

      More like the gizmo will never get made unless they have money from elsewhere and are using Kickstarter only as a marketing campaign. The $60k they are asking for won't cover even the materials. Just the mandatory FCC/CE/UL certifications will take a third of their budget, assuming that they actually pass on the first try.

      This article gives a good breakdown of how much it does actually cost to build and ship a hardware product:
      https://medium.com/bolt-blog/w... [medium.com]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        More like the gizmo will never get made unless they have money from elsewhere and are using Kickstarter only as a marketing campaign

        You seem to think that's a bad thing. It's the purest form of market research there is - not only did you get people interested in your thing, but you got them to put money behind it.

        Everyone on /. keeps saying "they don't make a phone with features X Y and Z that I need, there must be a market". Well, the best way to find out if there really is a market other than you is to tr

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by janoc ( 699997 )

          More like the gizmo will never get made unless they have money from elsewhere and are using Kickstarter only as a marketing campaign

          You seem to think that's a bad thing. It's the purest form of market research there is - not only did you get people interested in your thing, but you got them to put money behind it.

          I don't have a problem with market research, but then please mark it as such. This is just dishonest and it does a disservice to everyone else by giving the impression to the general public that an actual product can be made for that ridiculous budget and timeline. Then campaigns with genuine products and realistic budgets will never get financed because people take this sort of thing as standard and realistic. At least these guys have some real prototypes and aren't just selling hot air there.

          Also, doing a

      • I'm all for helping little guys get started, but it's amazing how much they miss out on. Even high profile projects (like the Raspberry Pi [zdnet.com]) seem to miss out on things like FCC/CE/UL certifications.

        Another one that I like to point out is the Ouya. They were trying to deliver an Android Box, a controller, and a custom Android build and marketplace for the same price that most other companies were asking for just an Android Box. It was pretty easy to tell from the start that they were going to have to cut a [engadget.com]

        • Another one that I like to point out is the Ouya. They were trying to deliver an Android Box, a controller, and a custom Android build and marketplace for the same price that most other companies were asking for just an Android Box. It was pretty easy to tell from the start that they were going to have to cut a lot of corners on the product to meet the price they advertised.

          Actually, the place they failed to deliver the most wasn't a place they had to fail at all: in the software stack. There's no real recovery partition, #1. They spent weeks writing and rewriting the dashboard software while major bugs went unfixed, #2. And their controller library was never actually any good at keeping the controllers straight whether you used theirs or PS3 controllers or what have you, #3. So it was always a pain in the asshole. The whole point of a game console is that it just works.

          And if

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      Probably.
      However, considering how overfunded the project is, it actually has a chance to deliver. The initial goal of $60k seems too optimistic to me, but if they manage to reach the million, they should be able to make it to mass production.

    • Why lug all those things around when the whole point of a tactile-sensitive surface is to liberate people from carrying around peripherals?!?

      I already have a wireless keyboard, no thicker than their (expensive) overlay, that cost $10.

      I already have a wireless mouse, so their product doesn't help me there.

      I already have a WACOM tablet, so it doesn't help me there.

      I already have a WACOM-type tablet with an underlying video display, so their thing doesn't help there, either.

      I already have a USB piano keyboard,

      • I'm with you on this.

        Whoever can make a force-adaptive touch-pad that's also a display will sell lots of product.

        And whoever can do that, combined with array of built-in reconfigurable tactile feedback sensors will change the market for all kinds of devices.

      • Why lug all those things around when the whole point of a tactile-sensitive surface is to liberate people from carrying around peripherals?!?

        I already have a wireless keyboard, no thicker than their (expensive) overlay, that cost $10.

        I already have a wireless mouse, so their product doesn't help me there.

        I already have a WACOM tablet, so it doesn't help me there.

        I already have a WACOM-type tablet with an underlying video display, so their thing doesn't help there, either.

        I already have a USB piano keyboard, so how are they helping me?

        It has sliders, pots, and 8 drum-pad inputs, so their product doesn't help for full audio production.

        What else is there? Trackballs, game-pads, specialist tools. All of these can be had at reasonable prices.

        No consumer is going to buy their (very impressive) touch-surface, and also buy a bunch of plastic clip-on things for it as well. The biggest problem is that it reduces the precision of the link between overlay and their super-sensitive surface with a mechanical-interaction layer — that's right, the overlays have to touch the surface. The consumer is back to square one, at best.

        Hmm, If I were you, the possibility of having:
        a wireless keyboard
        a wireless mouse
        a wacom tablet
        usb piano keyboard
        (just picking out those 4)
        In any case, having one device replace those 4 sounds kind of like a step up to me.
        Of course, it would primarily be of convenience to you. As you already have all the separate devices, you can easily skip this product.
        But if I were similar to you, and needed all those devices, however didn't have half or more of them, I'd think this product would definitely be on

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cdrudge ( 68377 )

      Prediction: Will ship late, underdeliver, and will replace zero input devices for 99.999% of people.

      So you're saying it will be more successful than most other kickstarters then?

  • Winky Dink and You with a touchpad.

    • I was thinking Intellivision... Each game came with an overlay for the generic controller with specific labeling for that game.

      • Yes I remember, and the buttons required an incredible amount of force to register, you got very little, if any, tactile feedback that you had closed the switch, and the layout of the thing was completely unergonomic.

        Astrosmash! I played that game until my hands hurt. And kept playing. I got to the point where the levels didn't get any harder, so it just became an endurance challenge. The intellivision lost. One day the screen froze on level eleventy, and the system never booted again.

  • ... over a touchpad does not give me that Model M experience.

    • I agree(from my Model M) that you should never send some 'touch' nonsense to do a proper buckling spring keyswitch's job; but the technology behind this product actually sounds extraordinarily impressive, just not suited for beating keyswitches at what keyswitches do best.

      Resistive sensors are not new; but have traditionally suffered from tepid pressure-level sensitivity, a very limited number of simultaneous touch points(the basic 'grid layout' ones often just register two touches as a single touch some

  • Oh goody, a membrane/touchscreen keyboard (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Chris Mattern ( 191822 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @10:53AM (#50395343)

    Because those are always so much fun.

  • Interesting, but I'd rather just buy overlays (Score:3)

    by mbourgon ( 186257 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @10:57AM (#50395377) Homepage

    Honestly, the part that I dig the most is the tactile overlays. Interesting concept, but too limited for me for the price. That being said, I'd buy the heck out of a $15/$20 overlay that gives you the tactile sensation, but using my Tablet of Choice as a controller. I've seen them for keyboard replacements for the ipad; unsure what else is out there.

  • I've yet to use any kind of touchpad that can even get close to matching the sensitivity of an ordinary mouse. With a mouse I can move the pointer to individual pixels, with a touchpad I'm lucky if I can even get it on the right icon or menu option half the time.

    • You're talking about sensitivity in the x and y directions; the summary was talking about sensitivity in the z direction.

      If you want it to be more sensitive in x and y, you have to poke at it with something with a finer tip than your finger.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        I took it as sentitivity in general. The Z direction is a pretty minor piece of functionality. X,Y is far more important to most people.

        "If you want it to be more sensitive in x and y, you have to poke at it with something with a finer tip than your finger."

        Even that won't work a lot of the time because the granularity of the pad is less than that of the screen.

        • I took it as sentitivity in general. The Z direction is a pretty minor piece of functionality. X,Y is far more important to most people.

          If pressure sensitivity was just a "minor piece of functionality" then no one would be using WACOM products.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by godefroi ( 52421 )

        Didn't look very sensitive in the Z either; they had to smash the brush (a big, heavy brush at that) pretty stiffly onto the thing to get it to register. Plus, it's very laggy. They're insane if they think anyone will replace a WACOM with this for artwork.

    • Cool story, brah.

      Unfortunately, that isn't what they meant by sensitive. "Sensitive" was in reference to pressure sensitivity.

  • This device could catch on - but only if it includes at least one killer-app snap on. It's not going to take off if you sell it bare bones with no overlay.

    But if they include something interesting, like a music overlay - with software designed for it, or a gaming overlay, then I could see it take off big time.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Octorian ( 14086 )

      Except that I'm not sure people want to have to keep a drawer of "snap-on templates" for all their configurations. Its just yet another thing to lose, and inevitably have a hard time replacing. This will become especially true when the next product revision breaks compatibility with the older snap-ons.

      Now when/if they can make the configuration software-controlled, it may have real potential. That's much harder, of course.

      • From reading the Kickstarter page [kickstarter.com], the device itself is just a blank pressure-sensitive surface. The configuration software defines areas on that surface that produce specific responses when touched, in the same way that the HTML 'map' tag does for an image. The overlays just provide a visual and tactile feedback so that the user can readily see what the programmed response will be, rather than fumbling across a featureless surface trying to find the right spot (and, with the 'stock' templates, have a patte

    • Unless the sensor can only be fabricated in flat sheets, they could really have a winner for bringing high resolution pressure sensitivity to the teledildonics market. Not that they'd necessarily trumpet that fact on their main page.

  • Apologies for the physics rage, but... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    ...pressure is not measured in units of mass! We use force per unit area, and for good reason.

    You can convert (kilo)grams to force easily enough if you assume normal gravity, but not knowing the dimensions of each pressure sensor means the figure they've given is almost meaningless.

    There's a world of difference between detecting 5g spread over an area the size of an average laptop touchpad, or over 1/20,000th that area (comparable to the head of a pin).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mark-t ( 151149 )

      Actually, mass per unit area is a measurement of pressure, not force. Force is actually a product of mass and acceleration. Since you wanted to have a physics rage, I figured you wouldn't mind being corrected.

      Now, to familiarize yourself with the colloquial norm, when someone talks about "5kg of force", they are generally not actually talking about 5kg as a mass, they are usually talking about 5kg as a WEIGHT, or to be more specific, approximately 49 Newtons, which *IS* the proper unit for force. Ta

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by smaddox ( 928261 )

        The SI unit for pressure is the Pascal, which is equal to one Newton per square meter, i.e. force per unit area. A paper weight does not apply pressure on a table without some acceleration applied, e.g. gravity. Please check your facts before correcting others.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mark-t ( 151149 )

          Of course, but units of mass per unit of area is still considered pressure.

          Look at your car tires for recommended inflation pressure. Note the abbreviation PSI - pounds per square inch, ie, units of mass per unit area.

  • A dead-flat touchpad is no replacement for a proper keyboard. I know of no half-way decent typist that can come anywhere near their typing speed on a touch-screen. And mice have the advantage that they work in most applications requiring a pointer. I don't need an overlay to do this.

    At best, this is a low-rent replacement for a Wacom, but not as precise; there's a reason Digitizers don't use simple pressure sensors. (And graphics tablets have had overlays since forever... I remember using an AutoCAD ove

    • A dead-flat touchpad is no replacement for a proper keyboard. I know of no half-way decent typist that can come anywhere near their typing speed on a touch-screen. And mice have the advantage that they work in most applications requiring a pointer. I don't need an overlay to do this.

      At best, this is a low-rent replacement for a Wacom, but not as precise; there's a reason Digitizers don't use simple pressure sensors. (And graphics tablets have had overlays since forever... I remember using an AutoCAD overlay a quarter-century ago.)

      That is kind of the point of the overlays - to stop it being 'dead flat'.
      If you read the kickstarter page - they're 3D printed to whatever you like, pretty much (although I assume that excessive thickness of small areas could/would impact the sensitivity - think more chicklet thickness of keys than old fashioned mechanicals)
      And 3D printers are advancing fast, I personally assume that in a year or two (around the time I might get one of these new touchpads) I'll also have relatively easy access to a 3D pri

  • Wow! It's like 1985 all over again!

  • What are they going to do when Apple is awarded the patent they filed for in 2005?

    http://www.google.com/patents/... [google.com]

  • So they use overlays like the old Intellivision game console instead of using a colour display? With Apple's "force touch" coming soon to the iPad, it will be a much better solution.

    Also, minus several million points to Soulskill for not even linking to the Kickstarter page.

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