Microsoft Surface Drowning? 337
hcs_$reboot (1536101) writes Again, not much good news for the MS Surface. Computerworld reports a Microsoft's losses on the tablet device at $US1.7 billion so far. But, still, Microsoft is serene: "It's been exciting to see the response to the Surface Pro 3 from individuals and businesses alike. In fact, Surface Pro 3 sales are already outpacing prior versions of Surface Pro. The Surface business generated more than $2B in revenue for the fiscal year 2014 and $409 million in revenue during Q4 FY14 alone, the latter of which included just ten days of Intel Core i5 Surface Pro 3 sales in Canada and the US." Should Microsoft pull the plug on the tablet? Or maybe it's just a matter of users getting used to the Surface? Even if they're losing money on the Pro 3, Microsoft has seemingly little to be ashamed of when it comes to reviews of the hardware.
Embrace or Expire? (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem of Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
Hardware has never been their problem, their problem has always been their strategy that has led them wrong.
By building products that are incompatible with others and refusing to open up Office files, they have implanted themself as the evil company in the mindset of those afffected. Those affected are those that realise that the world is always changing and want to be free to use any product.
Those are also the people that end up makeing decisions about what products to use.
Microsoft has "closed" them self out of the market.
Re:It's a still a nice PC. (Score:2, Interesting)
The only thing that comes to mind after seeing those outdoor pictures in the article: please give us a model with a matte display. I dislike glossy screens in general, but on tablets that will probably be used outside in the sun they are positively horrible. In the photos you can hardly see the screen for all the glare.
Good showcase device, not much more (Score:2, Interesting)
IMHO (TL;DR), the Surface Pro 3 is a great device but with an identity crisis without a real segment of users to cover.
Windows 8 was created precisely for such device, and since other vendors were reluctant to enter market with these specs, Microsoft actually used 8 to its full potential with their own design. It's the only place where 8.x actually makes total sense.
Problems were mainly with previous devices, let's be frank. That entire RT debacle was laughable, most people didn't understand why their Windows tablet wouldn't run their Windows software. As such, market was burned before the 3. But now, if you are on the market for such a beast, you'll have a great experience... which is part of the persisting problem. Why would you actually purchase such device?
- As a tablet? Most tablets are much less expensive, they don't run Windows software but why should they, as most ecosystems are now mature enough to forego Windows. As added bonus, their softwares are optimized precisely for these devices. Where you got a weird "traditional" mouse-and-keyboard Windows software trying to fit in a touch environment, you get a perfectly capable iOS or Android software doing exactly what you wish, with a great experience.
- As a laptop? Then you better get the keyboard, and even without it, the device itself is very expensive due to the digitizer and screen, which most laptop people won't care. It's less capable than equivalently priced laptops. It's more expensive than equivalently capable netbooks and laptops. Then for normal consumer, it might be worthwhile to get something such as a Chromebook.
So you need someone who wants a Windows PC with 8.x optimized applications, who loves using a tablet, such as a presentation device or with a propensity to draw with pens (artists - but not too specialized - GPU is poor), deeper pockets and doesn't mind a haphazard keyboard (even if the optional folding keyboard is well received, it's still a far cry from a standalone keyboard if you wish to use it in a train for example)
Re:The problem of Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
I doubt there are that many people outside of the stereotypical Slashdot demographic who view Microsoft the way you are describing them. Most people I know of know Microsoft as simply the company who makes the software they are familiar with.
Well, the problem is that Microsoft no longer makes software they are familiar with!
The ribbon-interface for Office was already alienating their users, although in the end it was accepted - but Windows 8 is just one step too far - a LOT of users are fed up. Apple is profiting from that, but also Android and maybe soon Steambox.
Pull the plug on RT (Score:5, Interesting)
If Microsoft thinks their big selling point is compatability with Windows applications, then by all means they should pull the plug on RT.
As to the Surface Pro, I think it suffers from one big glaring flaw: it runs Windows applications.
That means using menus, right clicks, and other such interface behaviours that are far from natural for a tablet/touch screen interface. What is needed for a successful tablet is an ecosystem of applications that are built just for tablet use. All the gestures in the world won't make it easy to right-click with one button (your finger), and let's face it: most of the useful functions of a Windows application interface are provided by the right-click menus.
Even something so trivial as the toolbars and buttons/icons have to be upscaled for a touch interface, otherwise you get touches/clicks on the wrong interface widget. That which is easily clicked by an accurate device like a mouse or touchpad is notoriously hard to nail down with a fat finger.
You don't they are dead. (Score:2, Interesting)
They are killing off non-Intel as they didn't have an outside tool chain. They only really allowed HTML app development. It may have worked for the first iPhone, but instant death now.
Surface Mini is the reason for the write-down (Score:4, Interesting)
TFA - especially the headline - is grossly misleading click-bait.
The story behind the latest numbers are that Microsoft has taken a write-down on investment in development of the *Surface Mini*. They scrapped that device only days before launch. When you do that, you have to write off all sunk cost on design and development of that product line.
Thus, those accounting numbers say *nothing* about how Surface Pro 3 - or indeed how the Surface line in general is performing in the market. For all we know demand is good but not excellent.
Tablet sales are tanking and PC sales are climbing again. If customers start to view tablets as "not for real work" Surface Pro 3 could be *the* device which is a perfect combination (compromise?) of PC and tablet.
For all the ridicule, Windows 8 does in fact deliver on being both a tablet as well as a PC operating system. The problem was never the tablet part nor the PC part - the main problem (especially with 8.0) was the rather poor integration (and yes, the fact that they tried to funnel desktop users through the "tablet" part to pent up demand for apps and attract developers).
keyboard support still lacking in Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
As soon as googling reveals that Surface Pro 3 runs a mainstream Linux distro well, I'll consider one. (Apparently only keyboard support is hard.) In the meantime, no, I'm not interested in an Apple-style play where the hardware is wedded to the manufacturers OS.
Re:Confusing the issue (Score:4, Interesting)
It did potentially have one very important effect... to persuade Intel that they power consumption of their chips are pants and needs to be improved. Intel needs competition to keep them honest, and Windows-on-ARM is probably why we have such frugal x86 now.
Re:Confusing the issue (Score:4, Interesting)
How many of those former Nokia employees that have just lost their job, (mostly in Finland, yes, but still!), could have contributed towards improving the Surface line, or the Windows tablet agenda in-general? Where's the synergy, Microsoft?
Re: It's a still a nice PC. (Score:3, Interesting)
As an Apple fan boy, even I don't own an iPad. I just don't see a need for any tablet in my life, my iPhone is enough. For mobile computing I have an IBM T40 and T41 with Linux installed with Open Office. My desktop PCs are Mac Minis with MS Office installed.
Same here. I have tried to convince myself to pull the trigger on buying a tablet of some form, and I just can't see the use. Maybe if I traveled a lot I'd get one for games & movies on a plane, but otherwise, I'm rarely out of reach of a laptop or desktop, and my ITouch does the job when I'm traveling. A co-worker who is an apple fanboy raved about his IPad, and then I didn't see it for a while. I finally asked him about it and he said he had stopped using it. Which kind of says it all.
Re:Pick your poison (Score:5, Interesting)
Why does it need to fall into either category? I would put it in a different class of cross over devices.
Is it an overweight tablet or a laptop with a crummy keyboard? How about a one device fits everything, great for note taking and doing work on but not so hot for writing novels or playing shitty games on the bus.
Stupid part is I would just buy a normal laptop if the ones with decent screens weren't the price of the Surface Pro 3, at which point I'm wondering why I would buy a device that's so limiting that it needs to be open and used with a keyboard.
Re:I have a Lenovo Miix 2 11" (Score:5, Interesting)
Just want to login to the damn thing? Why is the screen stuck upside down? I just pulled a neck muscle.... <Sigh>
Re:Pull the plug on RT (Score:5, Interesting)
As to the Surface Pro, I think it suffers from one big glaring flaw: it runs Windows applications.
You're assuming everyone wants a tablet with laptop capabilities. Some of us want laptops with tablet capabilities.
Yes, the ability to run Windows applications is its biggest plus in my opinion. I finally have a full computer device minus the usual limiting app store ecosystem which if I'm on the go and need to take notes I can flip it over and start writing.
Ignoring the abortion that is metro Windows itself is still quite usable as a tablet with a stylus and One Note is a phenomenal piece of software (considering who wrote it).
Re:Good showcase device, not much more (Score:2, Interesting)
>Microsoft actually used 8 to its full potential with their own design. It's the only place where 8.x actually makes total sense.
Sadly, no. 8 (and 7) are still very power stupid. They constantly do stupid shit like run indexers and eager caches that run your battery down fast. Throw win8 on a mac book pro and watch as that 9 (okay, 5 in reality) hours drops down to 2.
Re:The problem of Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
I think they have a ways to go in terms of people building their own machines, or upgrading old versions. But it's not like they are charging ridiculous amounts of money for their software.
Re:It's a still a nice PC. (Score:4, Interesting)
Matte definitely helps. I made the mistake on my last laptop purchase of accepting a "free upgrade" to a glossy screen
without realizing what I was doing. I hated it. All my other laptops before and since have been matte finish and they
do decently ok with glare. A more specialized screen would probably be better if outside visibility was your primary
objective but if you have additional selection criterias then requiring a specialized screen really narrows your selection.
I find that for my purposes a glossy screen is completely unusable while a matte screen has acceptable performance in
sunlight and gives me a much larger selection of laptops to chose from at more reasonable prices than a specialized screen
would.
Re:Pick your poison (Score:5, Interesting)
Neither. It's the greatest mobile music production computer ever invented. Touch screen, portable, full standard connectivity. Runs full versions of the best DAW software w/ plug-ins. There's nothing close.
I've got two of 'em. I'm not really invested in Microsoft's success, but I hope there are a few other manufacturers who are paying attention.
Re:Pick your poison (Score:3, Interesting)
i haven't used it, so take this with a grain of salt. but, it appears that it can be used as a laptop in profile mode, ie rotated 90s so that it's 11" and 2160 pixels tall, which no other small light laptop (probably any laptop) can come close to
so if what you care about is vertical pixels, it's a small light laptop with a crummy keyboard and an *amazing* display
Re:Pick your poison (Score:5, Interesting)
Here I was trying to decide whether it was PC with half the weight and twice the power of the laptop I got from work, or a great way to take notes electronically without the hassle of LaTeX. Mindset is everything, I guess.
For what it's worth, I've been using a Surface Pro for almost 6 months, and I haven't used the keyboard cover. Usually, the on-screen keyboard or the stylus have been fine for input, just like on other tablets. On the very one or two occasions that I have needed to do a lengthy amount of typing, I just plugged in a standard keyboard. Dissing a tablet because of an optional add-on seems a bit unfair.
It never goes away (Score:5, Interesting)
I had some shakedown artist apparently "approved by Microsoft" hassle me about compliance last year (2013) and their evidence was a licence for NT4 purchased in 1998 which expired in 2000. Sorting out licencing shit from fifteen years ago is almost something to call in geologists to deal with.
Surface Pro 3 fails to suck (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been very put off by Windows 8, but I kept finding that I needed to support it and test against it so I took the plunge and got a Surface Pro 3 - it's really quite a nice machine. Windows 8 is bearable when using this as a tablet (though I use Classic Shell to put back a real start menu and have disabled that horrid ribbon UI on Windows Explorer)
So far, it's fitting a nice niche: ultra portable small notebook that can work quite well as a tablet and with enough battery life that I can walk away from my desk but have access to my business critical apps.
Visual Studio runs well on it and I can test/troubleshoot win 8 apps.
Basically, it's failing to suck... at least for what I'm using it for. That's pretty high praise from me since I have been such a hater of Win 8... this hardware actually makes it tolerable.
Writing this on a Surface Pro 3 (Score:4, Interesting)
I got a Surface Pro 3 last month, and I totally love it. I do a lot of document editing, and the stylus makes it very easy. After a week of using OneNote, I was completely off paper. In fact, I'm on vacation right now doing business from my hammock, and I'm more productive than I usually am in my office. The screen is almost the same size as a piece of paper, and the high-res display makes it pleasant for reading. The fact that it's so easy to split the screen between two different documents makes it extremely easy and intuitive to input edits. I can't really say whether it's good for entertainment or gaming, because I have never used it for that. But for the office, it's perfect for me. I started using Linux in 2004, when MS was at its worst. Since then, they've improved tremendously and have won back my business. I still run Debian on my office server of course.
I got an Android tablet for the office last year, but I ended up never using it; doing anything useful was incredibly awkward. The Surface Pro 3 is what I hoped that tablet would be. The thing is, MS can afford to throw $1.7 billion at a problem until they get it right, and they have now gotten it right.
Re:Embrace or Expire? (Score:5, Interesting)
Trying something and not following through. In the meantime they proved once again that you can't be market leader in a new segment by killing the existing market leader and wearing the skin you've peeled off it.
That's a vivid metaphor, and describes the situation precisely. :-) I may use that.