The Next Keurig Will Make Your Coffee With a Dash of "DRM" 769
FuzzNugget writes "Apparently seeking to lock competitors out of the burgeoning single-serve coffee market, Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, maker of the popular Keurig coffee machines, will make their new machines work with licensed pods only. GMCR's CEO confirmed this in a statement: 'The much-anticipated ‘Keurig 2.0’ single-cup brewing system with ‘interactive readability’ (that doesn’t work with unlicensed/copycat pods) will offer such “game-changing functionality” that consumers - and unlicensed players - will want to switch.'"
Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Downside : a normal coffee brew process generates 6-12 cups of Joe.
I guess we could all switch to a press ... but that's a bit messy and requires a stand alone heating method (I've not the space to keep a proper tea kettle on my office desk)
Keurig provides a clean single-cup solution
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Downside : a normal coffee brew process generates 6-12 cups of Joe.
I guess we could all switch to a press ... but that's a bit messy and requires a stand alone heating method (I've not the space to keep a proper tea kettle on my office desk)
Keurig provides a clean single-cup solution
Just use an immersion heater [amazon.com] in your coffee mug to heat the water before you dump it in the press.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
One word: Aeropress.
Re: (Score:3)
There is a variation on the aeropress made by some other company that can use K-cups.
Re:Attention, MODS! (Score:5, Funny)
> It is spelled *expresso* not *espresso*. I am from Italy. I would know.
The letter X isn't used in Italian. Seems like the kind of thing you would know.
Re: (Score:3)
you must have a tiny-ass mug then. I Have a Cuisinart maker that grinds, and has a 4 cup setting, which perfectly fills my travel mug.
that is by biggest complaint about the Keurig - to fill a decent size mug, you need 2 cups on the large setting. at that point you get into the Buy at coffee shop kinda price per cup.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
you must have a tiny-ass mug then. I Have a Cuisinart maker that grinds, and has a 4 cup setting, which perfectly fills my travel mug.
that is by biggest complaint about the Keurig - to fill a decent size mug, you need 2 cups on the large setting. at that point you get into the Buy at coffee shop kinda price per cup.
I think you meant to reply to the grandparent poster. I don't have a tiny-ass mug [geekalerts.com], I have a tiny ass-mug [randommization.com].
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Downside : a normal coffee brew process generates 6-12 cups of Joe.
I guess we could all switch to a press ... but that's a bit messy and requires a stand alone heating method (I've not the space to keep a proper tea kettle on my office desk)
Keurig provides a clean single-cup solution
Are you on crack? We boil water in an electric kettle in 2.5 minutes, then pour into a press, and blammo, coffee. Keurig provides stupid, bland, watery goop that doesn't leave you with a bunch of grinds to clean up. However, it is neither greener, nor more efficient or even easier really.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Does caffeine count as crack?
No electric kettles in the office. Fire hazard (also no space heaters, or various other personal electronics). They probably shouldn't allow coffee pots either, but YOU try to tell a hundred or so office monkeys that they can't have coffee. Good luck. I suppose I could get a nice tea cosy to disguise the kettle... but like you said, then there's the grounds to deal with. Shaking the press doesn't really get much out of it, and the fire marshal REALLY frowns on my compost pile in my office.
Keureg is hardly a perfect solution, but it's self contained and low maintenance.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
I have an inductive hot water pot, it is about as safe as anything possible. You tell me it is a fire hazard, and I'll find a dozen more likely sources in your office.
The only thing that gets hot is the water pot portion. And it is separated from the induction base, which remains coolish. An Incandescent (you remember those?) bulb is hotter.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
However, it is neither greener, nor more efficient or even easier really.
The "Green Mountain" in their company names refers to the piles of green dollars that they are making with this crap.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
I have not tried the Keurig but other coffee pod machines I have used and owned produce single cups of pretty damn good coffee, complete with frothed milk, and there is basically zero mess. No mucking about with filters and pots and grinding up beans and aerating milk and all that crap.
Okay, if I could be bothered I could brew a slightly better cup the traditional way. But with pods I have variety and almost zero effort, ideal for work. It's a very small compromise for a very big gain.
Re: Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
Your forgetting the grinding of the fresh beans to put in that press.
I outsource the grinding of my coffee. I like to think it's brocken up into small pieces by an army of underpaid 3rd world seratshop labourers equipped with tiny mallettes. However, the blurb on the back of the many packets of ready-ground coffee do not confirm or deny this.
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I hear they even sell it in convenient, single use containers, so it's always somewhat fresh.
Have we completed the circle?
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A Brazil press is microwave safe. Scratch the bottom to keep from super heating.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Downside : a normal coffee brew process generates 6-12 cups of Joe.
I guess we could all switch to a press ... but that's a bit messy and requires a stand alone heating method (I've not the space to keep a proper tea kettle on my office desk)
Keurig provides a clean single-cup solution
It creates a lot of waste, though. Trendy, but not very green. Kind of like the personal electronics industry.
Re: (Score:3)
Use a reusable pod and fill it with the coffee of your choice. Ground yourself or pre-ground. It takes a little more time. And, there are some tricks. Like since the water flows fairly quickly through small cup a fine grind is a good idea.
But could you do that if the coffee pot maker used DRM to insure that you only use recommended pods? How could they allow reusable pods? I mean geeze, you could put anything in there. (Specifically, a competing product.)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Starbuck's Via is also a clean single-cup solution. It is cheaper, smaller and more dependable than the Keurig machine. It is also a format that would be very hard to add DRM, etc.
Since Keurig wants to punish its customers, I will forgo their stupidity.
Keurig, like Beta, sucks.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Coffee makers make a little or as much coffee as you want. If you want one cup, only put one cup or water and a proportionate amount of grounds. And you have the added benefit that while brewing many cups of Keurig is a linearly hard problem (meaning that it takes 20 times longer to brew 20 cups), conventional brewing is not.
When you actually in a situation where you are brewing a lot of coffee, the conventional method becomes more efficient per cup.
Any computer programmer should be able to tell you which is the overall more efficient solution for the general situation.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any computer programmer should also be able to tell you that programming computers requires at least one full pot of coffee, making a Keurig the worst possible solution ever.
Re: (Score:3)
Drip brewing doesn't really scale well, since it takes time for the grounds to saturate, and a small amount of grounds will form a thin layer; both of these make the percolation happen too fast. Also, the first cup of water won't be quite hot enough for good coffee, unless you have a very good drip machine. (Most drip machines don't heat the water enough, but it's even worse for small amounts of water.)
A coffee maker intended for 4-6 cups can make a single cup, but it'll be pretty shitty. Use a press, cone,
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Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Um... Keurig sucks. I've had their coffee, it's expensive and tastes bland.
I've been using this for nearly a decade: http://www.amazon.com/Melitta-... [amazon.com]
Taste great, 1 cup and I can use actual REAL coffee in it!
also, in a pinch you can make one of these out of a paper cup by poking holes in it and sticking in a regular old filter. The key is not to make the holes too big so the cofee steeps in the hot water for long enough.
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Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Keurig coffee costs about $30/pound in the local big-name grocery store. I don't know which is worse: DRM or hideously overpriced coffee. I would avoid Keurig like the plague for either reason.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
http://aerobie.com/products/ae... [aerobie.com]
Re: (Score:3)
So, fun fact. I've recently come to terms with an ugly fact : I have a legitimate physical addiction to caffeine. If I go a full day without, I get headaches by the end of the day.
Hardly the worst withdrawal symptoms ever, and defeated by some motrin and water ... but still, a bit upsetting. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to indulge my habit
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
So, fun fact. I've recently come to terms with an ugly fact : I have a legitimate physical addiction to caffeine. If I go a full day without, I get headaches by the end of the day.
Hardly the worst withdrawal symptoms ever, and defeated by some motrin and water ... but still, a bit upsetting. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to indulge my habit
For this reason, I included caffeine tablets in my 72-hour earthquake survival kit. I don't want to be fighting caffeine withdrawl at the same time I'm searching for shelter. I don't trust Starbucks to have emergency power and water plus enough beans in-stock to feed my addition in case of disaster.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, Coffee is high in antioxidants and good for your heart.
You realize that some antioxidants are actually carcinogenic, [oxfordjournals.org] and that increasing your intake of antioxidants may not have any healthful benefit, [harvard.edu] but may in fact be harming you? [wikipedia.org]
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That's how the Greeks do it. I think the Turks too.
I also think they argue a lot over who came up with the idea first.
Re:Easy clean, cheap solution (Score:4, Interesting)
Firstly, so many people drink shit coffee that how you make it is irrelevant
Yep, I'm cringing reading through this discussion of Americans debating which coffee is best.
What's next, Canadians arguing over whether the most offensive word is "damn" or "bum"?
Karma-burning out of the way, what you describe sounds like it would be very mild coffee, poured quickly over the grounds rather than steeped? Typically coffee snobs go for Italian espresso which is far stronger. The principles are;
1. Beans must be fresh. One week after roasting is the optimal time (the beans de-gas), and they should be ground on demand. Supermarket beans are often sitting there for months.
2. The grinder is more important than the machine. You want a very consistent grind that doesn't raise the heat of the beans. So saying I've A/B-ed an expensive burr grinder with a cheap one and couldn't notice the difference in the end cup.
Another interesting style is Toddy's cold-brewed. You simply place a lot of grounds in a large plunger, fill it with cold water and leave it in the fridge for 12 hours. Plunge and pour into another container, keeping the coffee in the fridge (stays fresh for a week) to use as a base. Pour some into your cup, heat in the microwave and add milk and sugar as desired. Because it was extracted with cold water the taste is incredibly smooth with very little bitterness.
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Is it really so hard to just grind the beans and brew it yourself? I do this every morning.
I vote for a french press. Though, an AeroPress in intriguing. I can't imagine the people using Keurigs are actually saving any money over just going to a place like Dunkin' Donuts.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't imagine the people using Keurigs are actually saving any money over just going to a place like Dunkin' Donuts.
Keurig machine is about $120. The pods are about $0.65 each (less if you buy in bulk, or on sale, etc.). Small coffee at DD is $1.49. So, you're saving about $0.85/cup. You cover the cost of the machine after about 140 cups, so you definitely are saving money, even more if you're comparing to buying at Starbucks.
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Don't forget the cost of your time. Traveling to DD or SB and standing in line for a cup of expensive coffee takes a lot of time (depending on how far you are from the nearest location). If you have your own machine at home, you can have a cup of coffee ready for you in the morning, taking no time at all (I assume the Keurig machines can be programmed to automatically brew a cup at a specified time; make sure you put a cup in place the night before though).
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Somehow I just don't trust drinking my coffee that we brewed out of a Lexmark ink cartridge.
Re: (Score:3)
Choice.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's like when you find the exact same piece of generic furniture sold at (but not designed by) IKEA in some upstreet furniture shop - IKEA would call it "ROBUST" (or whatever) and sell it for $89, while the other "boutique" will call it "Multimedia bench in Nordic pinewood" at thrice the pricetag. People with money will buy it, and they will feel like they did a better deal than paying $89 at IKEA. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book of retail.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to mention that the Keurig doesn't make coffee that tastes anywhere near as good as fresh ground and brewed or pressed coffee.
Re: (Score:3)
You and your colleagues have horrible taste! :p
As for the just-one-cup issue, there are dozens of other options, from single-use filters to single-cup-size presses to simple espresso machines. I have a press that doubles as a travel cup.
Folgers or another brand, etc.
I rest my case on the horrible taste issue. No one with any taste in coffee would ever mention Folgers, except as a how-NOT-to! :D
close the pod bay door, HAL (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry Dave, I can't let you brew that.
I'd damn sure reprogram his memory banks with an very large axe for that kind of insubordination.
Re: (Score:3)
Daisy... Daaaiiissyyyy
Re: Keurig patents expired... (Score:3)
They already do. I purchased a Mr. Coffee unit that takes K cups and also comes with a single-serving sized filter.
Re:Keurig patents expired... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Keurig patents expired... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm really surprised to have gotten this far down the thread without anyone mentioning the parallels to ink jet cartridges with DRM. I'm looking at you Epson.
Re: (Score:3)
K-Cup compatible brewers and cups have been on the market for a while now. This is precisely the reason that Keurig are adding these DRM-like controls to their new machines. I guess that was easier than coming up with a new invention as innovative as the K-Cup, or simply competing based on quality and price.
Re: (Score:3)
Buy it pre-ground. Or grind it the day before. It's still likely to be fresher than some nasty little industrial capsule.
I can may anywhere from 1-6 mugs of coffee with with a vintage Mr. Coffee machine and that's sufficient to satisfy the household caffeine addictions with only simple bio-degradable waste products (makes great garden mulch!)
When that's not fancy enough, I have a mini espresso machine.
Horrible coffee (Score:5, Funny)
Coffee from pods is an affront dignity anyway. Get a proper espresso machine, or use a press.
Re:Horrible coffee (Score:4, Funny)
Unless you personally witnessed the beans being ground, its not proper coffee :)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Horrible coffee (Score:5, Funny)
Unless you hate the beans yourself and picked them out of the toilet before roasting them...
Well. You might also have to be a civet.
Re:Horrible coffee (Score:5, Insightful)
How about we just skip to the end of the chain?
Unless you created a pocket universe, started a creation event, formed stars from the resulting big bang cloud, fused a solar system worth of hydrogen into heavier matter, collected the matter into a planet in the perfect orbit, formed a primordial soup, created life from the soup, evolved the life to create coffee bean producers, harvested the beans, processed and roasted the beans, ground them, and finally pressed them yourself, then it's not proper coffee.
Re:Horrible coffee (Score:5, Funny)
You forgot all the steps it took to evolve the civets.
Re: (Score:3)
Well... a True Scotsman won't fit in the grinder, so I usually settle for coffee.
Re:Horrible coffee (Score:5, Funny)
It follows that blind people have never tasted proper coffee.
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Re:Horrible coffee (Score:5, Insightful)
The regular Keurig machine makes filtered coffee; it is not an espresso machine. It makes coffee under pressure - more pressure than a drip machine, obviously, but much less than a proper espresso machine.
Yeah, I used to be a coffee snob too. The convenience of having a fresh, hot cup of coffee within a minute of stumbling downstairs every morning is worth a lot; not having to clean the grounds out of a french press is worth a lot too. Tastes vary, but with 50 or more varieties, there's usually something worth drinking. And, hey, convenience is what sells today; otherwise people would wait to get home to make their phone calls.
Re:Horrible coffee (Score:5, Informative)
Cleaning the grounds out of a french press is awful. The aeropress completely fixes that problem.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Coffee from pods is an affront dignity anyway. Get a proper espresso machine, or use a press.
Besides, Dolphins and Orcas are horrible Baristas. Wait, what kind of "pods" are we talking about?
Re:Horrible coffee (Score:4, Funny)
That $30 Mr. Coffee Espresso maker... (Score:5, Interesting)
That $30 Mr. Coffee espresso maker that breaks down after two years actually makes better economic sense. I amortized the busted unit over two years (sometimes longer) and achieved $0.57/shot espresso. Keurig can suck it.
Re:That $30 Mr. Coffee Espresso maker... (Score:4, Informative)
By my math, you're saving just $0.01/serving over a Keurig, and you're losing a lot more time on rote actions such as measuring out beans, grinding them, packing the grounds, and cleaning the equipment. Keurig users seem like they probably got the better end of that deal.
As for my math...
Assumption: For the sake of argument, the $120 Keurig only lasts for two years, just like your $30 Mr. Coffee
Assumption: Coffee drinker drinks two cups a day for two years = 1460 servings
Assumption: An average Keurig pod costs $0.50
Cost of pods = 1460 servings * $0.50 = $730
Cost of machine = $120
Amortized cost = ($730 + $120) / 1460 servings = $0.58/serving
I tried to base most of my assumptions on numbers that favored you. For instance, though most people buying pods are likely to buy them in bulk for well under $0.50, I went with $0.50 since it was roughly in the middle of the range of prices I was seeing on Amazon. I also assumed that the Keurig would fail after just two years, despite all anecdotal evidence I'm aware of indicating that it would likely last much longer. Similarly, I went with a low rate of consumption so that the higher cost of the Keurig machine would play a greater role in the amortized cost, thus favoring your argument.
And yet, despite all of that, the difference was surprisingly just $0.01. I didn't game the numbers to try and get that result. It really did just happen to work out that way.
TL;DR: I'm not recommending Keurig machines, but I also wouldn't suggest that your use case represents a cost savings of any significance. In fact, I'd argue that most people would rather incur the $0.01 cost in order to be free of the hassle of dealing with everything your machine involves.
And just like Sony ... (Score:5, Informative)
they deserve to fail miserably and go down in flames.
Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
How much "game-changing functionality" can you really work into a fucking coffee machine?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
How much "game-changing functionality" can you really work into a fucking coffee machine?
It turns into a coffee fucking machine. See how I did that?
Re:Really? (Score:5, Funny)
How much "game-changing functionality" can you really work into a fucking coffee machine?
It turns into a coffee fucking machine. See how I did that?
So that's where the cream comes from...
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, i think including DRM IS game changing functionality, just in a bad way. Lets hope it fails in the market and others dont follow down that path.
( I dont drink mud water and even i know this is a bad precedent )
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
How much "game-changing functionality" can you really work into a fucking coffee machine?
To me, it sounds like they're planning on emulating Tassimo and their bar-coded brewing system, so the user can use 'milk' pods, tea pods, etc. and the system will brew them differently depending on the scanned and recognized contents (temperature for sure, pressure maybe? size? IDK)
What they seem to be 'forgetting' is that it was the flexibility and simplicity of the K-Cup system that actually gained them the dominant market share in the first place. Sure you can brew cappucinos and lattes with the Tassimo...but you can use your own favorite coffee brand with the Keurig My K-Cup reusable filter, freshly ground if that's your thing, or spooned out of a Maxwell House container to save money / env. wastage on each cup. Heck, I use my My K-Cup to hold loose tea leaves when I feel like a specialty cuppa...and they're good for two to three cups, too.
Nope, if they disable their whole BYO ability, I predict that they will wind up in a small corner of a niche market. If they relent and provide a My K-Cup equivalent for the 2.0...well, it's just barely possible that they could survive this bone-headed move, although people will grumble about not having cheap generics available. Either way, watch for stock prices to plunge.
Keuring coffee? No thanks. (Score:5, Funny)
I only drink certified genuine OEM HP inkjet printer ink. It's much cheaper than Keuring.
Re: (Score:3)
Probably tastes better, too.
Not my cup of tea (Score:5, Funny)
This will not end well... (Score:2)
"Interactive" (Score:2)
Re:"Interactive" (Score:4, Interesting)
Insert pod, push button. How much interactivity does making coffee *need*?
I'm guessing that the chip in the pod tailors the brewing cycle for the coffee (or tea) in the pod for the best possible quality. Well, as "best" as you can get with pre-ground beans that have sat on the shelf in a pod for a few months.
Act now... (Score:3)
Anti competitive (Score:3, Interesting)
This won't be legal to sell in Europe by the sounds of it..
Re:Anti competitive (Score:5, Funny)
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That coffee is so bad, that it isn't legal in Europe anyway.
I presume it's in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Not DRM, just an old business model (Score:2, Insightful)
This isn't DRM it is just an update on an old business model that happens to use a small circuit to achieve the same result.
Re:Not DRM, just an old business model (Score:5, Insightful)
Not quite the same thing. This would prevent a 3rd party from making a cheaper cartridge for your razor.
Has anyone ever gotten... (Score:2, Insightful)
a decent cup of coffee out of a Keurig machine anyway?
Why not... (Score:3)
...just supply a better quality, more desirable coffee? Oh no, that would be too hard!
DRM technology to the rescue,forcing users to buy crappy or overpriced coffee.
The Real Question (Score:4, Interesting)
The real question is - after the "Keurig 2.0" hits the shelves, will I be able to use the "Keurig 2.0" pods with my "Keurig 1.0?"
Or are they going to screw themselves out of my money by trying to force me to "update" to the new model (probably by altering the design of the K-Cup ever-so-slightly), thereby ensuring that the only products I buy for my existing $160 coffee maker are non-Green Mountain brand?
where this time? (Score:3)
i'm wondering where exactly are we going to have to put the piece of black tape or sharpie scribble to disable it...
lol DRM...will they ever learn?
knock knock: "OMFG it's the coffee police.,..AGAIN!!"
"damn, so who forgot the firewall the damn thing this time??"
"well...shit i was surfing for porn and disabled the FW for freakydeaks,com.."
pound pound "OPEN UP...WE CAN SMELL THE CRIME BREWING HERE DO NOT RUN"
Go ahead and shoot yourself in the foot (Score:3)
Environmentalists vs. Keurig (Score:3)
It always makes me chuckle when one of my self-anointed "green" friends whips up a cup of Keurig and then chucks the plastic container in the trash.
Pot meet...
Pour-over or french press or moka. (Score:3)
I've found only one suitable pre-made Keurig pod for me, Dark Magic Decaf.
Meanwhile, I still have opposable thumbs and can operate a french press or a Chemex or a porcelain cone or a Bialetti.
Choose your level of messiness (none horrible), but get much better coffee at at least half the price.
Yes, it can take up to ten minutes to get it, but there's something to be said for not making everything in life about pushing one button.
I can do them all with any heat source, from electric main to the trusty SnowPeak.
Game-changing functionality? (Score:3)
It brews a cup of coffee. Exactly what functionality can they offer that changes that dramatically? The only thing I can think of is the ability to load several kinds of cups and have it programmatically select one. Remotely programming it... kind of pointless if I still have to walk down to get the mug, and if I've got the machine within reach to get the mug why do I need to program it remotely when I can just punch the Brew button? The only functionality I can think of they can add only benefits Keurig, and I'm not buying a brewer just for that.
Warning, Keurig: I'm attached to coffee, not your particular brand of machine.
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My guess RFID. By one regular pod, cut RFID chip out of it, tape to the bottom of subsequent generic pods.
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I have a french press, but I prefer a small moka pot -- aka a stovetop "espresso" pot. While it doesn't use enough pressure to qualify as true "espresso", with a little experimentation you can do a very nice extraction with one. They're also available in single serving and even backpack versions.