OpenPhoenux Neo900 Bills Itself As Successor To Nokia's N900 111
An anonymous reader writes "The latest device in the OpenPhoenux open hardware family is the Neo900, the first true successor to the Nokia N900. The Neo900 is a joint project of the Openmoko veteran Jörg Reisenweber and the creators of the GTA04/Letux2804 open hardware smartphone at Golden Delicious Computers. Furthermore, it is supported by the N900 Maemo5/Fremantle community, the Openmoko community and the OpenPhoenux community, who are working together to get closer to their common goal of providing an open hardware smartphone, which is able to run 100% free and open source software, while being independet of any big hardware manufacturer." So far, their Indiegogo campaign has raised more than half of the €25,000 they're seeking.
3 line keyboard noooooo (Score:2)
to reiterate, 3 line keyboard nooooooooo!
that's not too lame, dang filter. 3 line keyboard is lame. and I'm not supposed to repeat either, stupid filters.
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yes, but why not make it better? why not make it better and dodge a lawsuit at the same time?
but why not make it better in hw too then, why stick with 800x480 resistive...
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Because the creation of new case would be the most expensive part of the project at such low production runs.
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yes, but why not make it better? why not make it better and dodge a lawsuit at the same time?
but why not make it better in hw too then, why stick with 800x480 resistive...
Because the projected volume is on the order of 1000 units. In that sort of volume, selecting a new keyboard, new screen, redesigning casework for them, and tooling up to produce it becomes prohibitively expensive.
And I really don't understand what you mean by "dodge a lawsuit" -- AFAIK Nokia doesn't have any design patents on the N900, and even if they do, since they can't be bothered to pursue the makers and sellers of the parts that this will be made of, it seems really unlikely they'd bother coming afte
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yes, but why not make it better? why not make it better and dodge a lawsuit at the same time?
but why not make it better in hw too then, why stick with 800x480 resistive...
Because the projected volume is on the order of 1000 units. In that sort of volume, selecting a new keyboard, new screen, redesigning casework for them, and tooling up to produce it becomes prohibitively expensive.
so why not use COMMODITY parts that are available right now? why are they using legacy garbage bin crap instead? Even $40 chinese tablets are capacitive by now.
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I wouldn't buy Neo900 if it had a capacitive screen.
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+1 to this.
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I.e. I wouldn't have bought any of my 5 n900's (yes, I just bought another...) if it was capacitive.
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Agreed!
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What, you wouldn't pay up to $936 U.S. for a phone with a 3 line keyboard?
Love the idea, but, the price says get a nice laptop with a real keyboard, communications software, DSL phone Card , a case of beer and a prime rib dinner.
Not a fan of dinky screens and thumb keys anyway. This solution cuts the radiation you receive by carrying a phone in close proximity to your reproductive organs, while keeping the spirit of hacking alive in a familiar package.
Spiritual successor? (Score:1)
Hmm, it's more like the spiritual successor to the old Psion palmtops. They were amazing for their time and every so often I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't just given up in 2001...
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GSM - free GSM module doesn't exists, replacing sw means revoke of certification and using non-certified device on public network is illegal
GPU - only 3D acceleration is non-free. OSes like SHR or QtMoko don't need 3D acceleration and work great without it, with 100% FLOSS stack
WiFi - it *might* be non-free (as in firmware, drivers will be free no matter what), but only if no acceptable free module can be found
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GSM - free GSM module doesn't exists, replacing sw means revoke of certification and using non-certified device on public network is illegal
What a bunch of FUD. On your shitty network in a country with broken laws? Maybe. In the real world out there, operators don't "certify" devices. They provide a SIM and the SIM is used in the whatever device the customer pleases.
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I think he means "FCC certified," not "network operator certified." I strongly suspect other countries have an equivalent to the FCC...
Re:Non-free parts include (Score:4, Informative)
Please. Calm down.
GSM - free GSM module doesn't exists, replacing sw means revoke of certification and using non-certified device on public network is illegal
What a bunch of FUD. On your shitty network in a country with broken laws? Maybe.
dos1 is from Poland. I'm pretty sure that's not the broken-lawed country you were thinking of.
In the real world out there, operators don't "certify" devices.
And he never said they did. However, the FCC in the US, and the corresponding authority in other countries, do certify cellular terminals, and do make it illegal to operate uncertified ones (in the normal way, on a public GSM network).
They provide a SIM and the SIM is used in the whatever device the customer pleases.
Yes, and if you build yourself an uncertified GSM terminal, you are practically free to slot your SIM and use it -- you'll be breaking the law, but as long as your equipment really does conform to the specifications, nobody will notice or care.
However, you can't presently get someone to sell you a prebuilt GSM module with open firmware, because (at least in USA; I'm not sure how the policies of radio comms regulators in other countries compare, but they're unlikely to be much better) the FCC will not certify such a device, because open means the user could load modified firmware that would cause the device to not conform to specifications. (If firmware is only distributed as a binary, that's all ok, because apparently FCC thinks reverse-engineering doesn't happen...)
AFAIK there's not a big enough market for such things to motivate some Chinese factory beyond the FCC's reach to develop and produce open-firmware GSM modules, but even if there was, that only helps if each user is getting their own parts through customs and assembling it. If GolDeliCo imports such a (necessarily uncertified) module and uses it in a phone, that phone will then have to be certified, which not only is a ridiculously expensive process, but also will be impossible (at least in the USA) because the FCC still applies the policy that such firmware cannot be open. And selling an uncertified mobile phone for use on the public GSM networks will get you in trouble in a way that building your own for yourself won't.
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And he never said they did. However, the FCC in the US, and the corresponding authority in other countries, do certify cellular terminals, and do make it illegal to operate uncertified ones (in the normal way, on a public GSM network).
What makes you think other countries even HAVE a corresponding authority to begin with? I live in Finland and we don't have any authority with the power to decide what device can and what can't be used on a public GSM network.
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Certification from the relevant national authority is absolutely required for *ANYTHING* capable of transmitting RF. For something that connects to a public network, there are additional certifications besides just the basic RF ones. I still remember back in the old days, if you took your AMPS handset into Canada, you had to have it registered at Canadian customs; this was eventually dropped, but I don't know if it was due to complaints, drowning in workload, or what.
However, I disagree about FOSS firmwar
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As for GPU, a few of them have things like freedreno and the like. Not the best, but they exist.
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The creator of this device is Golden Delicious Computers, which are located in Germany. So it should be no problem to send one to the UK, once they are ready. Go to the homepage (neo900.org), subscribe to the mailinglist or put your donation, to make sure you'll get one of the first mass production batch.
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Then change your BTC into real money.
(BTC ? In the iso money naming that'd be Bhutan Colons).
The keyboard is fine! However, the screen... (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of people complain about the keyboard but frankly, it's a lot nicer than no keyboard and it's compact. It's enough for quick script writing and SSH. I speak from experience. On the other hand, the screen is dire by modern standards. The resistive touch sensor is great for stylus use but bad for fingers. The battery is awful.
To resurrect the N900, it needs more than just new innards.
Re:The keyboard is fine! However, the screen... (Score:4, Informative)
Fairphone seems like a more capable candidate for an open smartphone.
http://www.fairphone.com/ [fairphone.com]
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That phone looks good, but I wish it had a physical keyboard and that it supported LTE.
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Explain to me how is yet another Android phone open?
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Look for an application called AutoDisconnect. You won't get IM notifications, but your battery will last 2-3 days. You can also buy the same battery but with more modern battery technology.
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I have a N900 and am very interested in the Neo900 (and in fact will be contributing to the software stuff where I can). I LOVE the N900 touch screen, its far better than the one on the iPhones and Android devices the rest of my family use, I love using the stylus and even with fingers its still good enough for me.
And I love the keyboard too, its usable without being too annoying.
I think the Neo900 is the perfect device for me (and will be interested in one when my N900 eventually fails)
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The keyboard is what most disappointed me about the N900. The dodgy USB port was the only other thing.
The screen was amazing in 2009 and doesn't look too bad today IF you don't mind using a stylus.
Battery technology has advanced a lot since then too, but you can buy replacement modern batteries which last a third longer. Secondly, the N900, once properly configured, uses almost no power and will last 2-3 days with a modern battery.
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No, the resistive screen is one of the best parts. I hate iphone/android capacitive screens!
They might end up using a new battery, and the SoC at least should be more power efficient. Anyway, the n900 battery life is more a function of software than hardware.
Fap fap fap (Score:1)
how about a "dumbphone"? (Score:1, Offtopic)
why is it that i cant get a cellphone that is a cellphone and not a tiny computer that has to be rechanged daily? i want a cellphone that i only have to charge once a month or so. is it too much to ask for?! MOTOFONE was my last hope but alas it is dead.
Re: about a "dumbphone"? - Nokia 1280, shop in UK (Score:2)
The Nokia 1280 has been originally designed for India and some of the East African Markets (hence, Swahili as one of the languages selectable for the menus).
The Nokia 1280 is readily available in a number of case colours in the U.K. these days (around 23 pounds).
I bought my Nokia 1280 in Germany, where just the black variety seems to be available (between 26 and 30 euros).
And for the original poster who mentioned the Motophone (which was called the Motorola F3 hereabouts):
Among other things, I especially li
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Re:how about a "dumbphone"? (Score:4, Informative)
that's a pretty usual line to say on smartphone thread.
so, why don't you fucking go and buy one so called africa dumbphone. 108 is coming soon from nokia and has a stated 31 days standby.
and dunno if colors are too much but http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-Dual-Music-Phone-Unlocked/dp/B005W3HP26 [amazon.co.uk] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vodafone-Button-Senior-Pre-Pay-Display/dp/B007EOG0MC/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383413109&sr=1-2&keywords=mobile+phone [amazon.co.uk] or http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-E1200-Sim-Free-Smartphone/dp/B0079JZ4O2/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383413125&sr=1-3&keywords=mobile+phone [amazon.co.uk]
you know why they don't make headlines? because these kind of phones have been 20-40 bucks unlocked - unsubsidized - for years and years now.
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that's a pretty usual line to say on smartphone thread.
so, why don't you fucking go and buy one so called africa dumbphone.
U MAD, BRO?
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You seem to be a bit lost. Gizmodo is over that way. Or perhaps you're looking for Wired?
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You seem to be a bit lost. Gizmodo is over that way. Or perhaps you're looking for Wired?
YEAH, HE MAD.
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Thanks for the link. That's just what I needed.
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If you're referring to the MOTOPHONE F3, that's not what you want. I have one & everything is fine untill you actually start talking on it, then the battery drops very quickly. It's a mystery to me how such a simple phone can have such lousy talk time.
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https://onyx-boox.com/coming-soon-e-ink-news/e-ink-smartphone/ [onyx-boox.com]
Thick (Score:2)
Finally! (Score:1)
Finally, an underpowered smart phone that is already as dated as the existing smartphone I have, and will struggle with heavy app usage. But it's FLOSS and that makes it better.
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That's a pretty harsh slapdown of DIYers, coming from someone with a 5-digit Slashdot ID.
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I already put in €150
I can't wait!
Re:Without Mobile Firefox it's dead in the water. (Score:5, Interesting)
http://jolla.com/
Maemo -> meego -> mer -> sailfish.
its even made by the same design team that rage quit nokia and founded a new company
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Its confirmed there WILL be a HW keyboard otherhalf
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Which goes part of the way, but it still doesn't have a resistive touch screen and stylus.
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No, it isn't. I want a Linux phone, not a Firefox phone. Jolla is much better in the OS department, kinda sorta get there with the KB for the "other half", but fail with the screen.
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The problem is the case.
This idea came about because the GTA04 already exists, but only fits in the old OpenMoko case, which is nearly impossible to find.
By the coincidence of being built around the same TI devkit as the RX51 the GTA04 almost fits the N900 case, and there seem to be a hell of a lot of them around. Try finding parts for a N950!
So, a quick hack on the GTA04 board, voila, the Neo900, goes into a N900 case to get a working geekphone.
Not at all the phone that many of the people around here seem
N900 MicroUSB Power Connector Bricking (Score:2)
I really, sincerely hope that they will avoid ever using the weak connection of the original N900's MicroUSB socket that caused bricking when it separated from the PCB.
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RTFA; yes they'll avoid that.
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Are you sure there is a description in TFA about how the problem of the original N900's MicroUSB port separating from the mobo (and thus bricking the entire device) is going to be dealt with? I don't mind people pointing out something that I seem to have missed.
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Even if you had a spare charged-up battery this meant a complete shutdown.
Nice to see this new project will have hot-swappable battery capability.
That's what I used to do until I got out of the car and it fell out of my pocket and got run over (screen is TOAST). Now using an N9 which is a much better phone (best UI I have *ever* used), but not nearly as good of a hacking device :(
I'm guessing the hot-swap will require the device to be plugged in when switching batteries which to the best of my recollection could already be done with the N900.
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"Ba la la la leh leh leh! Ba la la la leh leh leh!"
This is an amazing experiment! I've never see anything like it! A grand experiment is unfolding before my very eyes! Such a fuckin' thing!
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Best UI? Isn't it like other smartphone OSs, lacking close buttons? That is one of many great things about Maemo/Matchbox/Hildon
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It's for sure mentioned many times on Maemo Talk thread. You might also want to place your cursor near "Micro-AB 2.0 (OTG)" in Neo900 specification page to see a little tooltip... ;)
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Oh, I'm quite wrong. Sorry about that.
The Neo900.org front page has gone through some changes since last I remembered -- I'm pretty sure that a couple weeks ago, the USB port being sturdier was mentioned on the front page, but it's not now.
Anyway, it is a well-documented fact that they're quite aware of that issue, and will be avoiding it, but sorry for calling RTFA.
Nitpick: I'm with the AC in objecting to your use of the term "bricking". As long as you don't scribble over the bootloader and initrd (and thu
The FUD troll continues (Score:2)
Why is that even here? (Score:2)
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Lighten up, Francis.
I was a very happy N900 owner. In the near future, when I open up the case of my dead N900 to update it to a Neo900 I will be glad to see that the MicroUSB socket does not separate from the mobo. I had not even heard of the Neo900 project up until today (I've been way too busy to follow the Maemo forums too) so if it is me that you are accusing of being a troll you are *wrong*, like in 180 degrees wrong.
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Your use of leading questions only leads me to wish you a better life in the future. Sorry to have upset you.
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I can see that you have bested me. May you have peace and happiness now and in the future.
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Considering that even Nokia dropped it like a red hot coal ASAP and shipped a different design why would anyone ever contemplate it?
Maybe because Nokia dropped it like a red hot coal?
N900: Debian based, resistive screen, hardware keyboard, great for hackers, cute name "Maemo"
N9: RPM based, capacitive screen, no keyboard, AEGIS!, horrid name "Meego".(*)
((*) some of this information is a lie, but it's Nokia's lie, not mine).
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Two words.......anger management.
Need one for free (Score:1)
I have an old n900 at home. I'll be sitting this one out as I don't like resistive screens.
If you can show you're a developer with some projects under your belt who can help this project just send me a message and I'll send you my phone
-j