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Displays Upgrades Hardware

All-in-Ones Finally Grow Up, With Fast Graphics, SSDs, and CPUs 211

Posted by timothy
from the ok-now-switch-graphics-cards dept.
MojoKid writes "Historically, all-in-one desktop systems like the iMac, HP's TouchSmart and similar designs that incorporate a full system on the backside of a monitor, haven't offered performance that was competitive to their full-sized desktop counterparts. Part of the reason is that many of these systems are comprised of low power notebook platform PC components inside thin chassis designs with minimal airflow. However, as mobile platforms have become more powerful, so has the all-in-one PC. Dell's recently launched XPS 27 Touch, with Intel's Haswell mobile processor and an NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M on board, is an example of a new breed of AIO hitting the market now. The system is based on a 27-inch panel with 2TB of storage, a 32GB SSD cache drive, 8GB of RAM and performance in the benchmarks that keeps pace with average midrange full-sized desktops. You can even game on the machine with frame rates at the panel's 1080p native resolution with medium to high image quality. It's almost like the all-in-one finally grew up."
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All-in-Ones Finally Grow Up, With Fast Graphics, SSDs, and CPUs

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  • What fud (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Billly Gates (198444) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:29AM (#44663315) Journal

    The imac had decent specs for years.

    The fact is most pcs sold have value oriented junk as only workstations and alienware bother with nice components. Most enthusiasts and gamers build their systens as a result.

    • Re: What fud (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:32AM (#44663327)

      true, but as this post is obviously a dell commercial, truth doesn't matter too much

    • by bkmoore (1910118)
      If it's smaller, then it must be less powerful, right?
      • Re:What fud (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Immerman (2627577) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @11:46AM (#44664121)

        As a rule, yes. Basically bigger system = better cooling. Airflow, heat exchangers, etc are all very much volume dependent.

        Generally speaking (and oversimplified) if you can halve the power consumption (=heat generation) of the CPU, GPU, etc. then you have two options:
        1) Smaller - halve the capacity of the cooling system, roughly halving the minimum volume of the device.
        2) Faster - double the number or power of chips, roughly doubling the performance at the same minimum device volume.

        Of course if your desktop system uses a standard full-sized case and motherboard then there's probably lots of "wasted" space that can be trimmed - basically trading expandability and ease of maintenance for a more compact form factor. Once you're down to an compact motherboard and case though you can't really get much smaller without sacrificing cooling capacity. You could push things a little farther by doing away with upgradable, standards-compliant components in favor of custom-engineered solutions, but that increases costs and probably isn't worth it in most applications - once the cooling system becomes a major portion of the volume your options for further size reductions start being severely limited.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Khyber (864651)

          " Basically bigger system = better cooling. Airflow, heat exchangers, etc are all very much volume dependent."

          Wrong, it's surface area then airflow dependent. Since the heat exchange happens pretty much in a layer 0.0001" on the surface of the heat conducting material, large volume isn't needed, large surface area is.

          • by Immerman (2627577)

            surface area + room for airflow along surface = volume.

            Certainly creative engineering can arrange for increases in thermal transfer per unit volume, but for a given heat exchanger design thermal transfer actually tends to increase sublinearly with volume. For a car-style blow-through radiator for example heat transfer will tend to increase roughly linearly with face "footprint", and substantially sub-linearly with thickness.

    • Re:What fud (Score:5, Informative)

      by dfghjk (711126) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:43AM (#44663383)

      "fud" stands for "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt". It doesn't mean something you disagree with.

    • Re:What fud (Score:5, Informative)

      by buddyglass (925859) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @10:04AM (#44663517)
      Case in point: It will cost you an arm and a leg, but you can spec out a 27" iMac as follows:

      3.4ghz quad-core i7 w/ Turbo to 3.9ghz
      32GB 1600mhz DDR3
      3TB "Fusion" drive (HDD/SSD hybrid)
      NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB GDDR5

      Some cursory googling suggests the 680MX is the higher performing GPU.
      • Re:What fud (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24, 2013 @10:25AM (#44663603)

        Case in point: It will cost you an arm and a leg, but you can spec out a 27" iMac as follows:

          3.4ghz quad-core i7 w/ Turbo to 3.9ghz
        32GB 1600mhz DDR3
        3TB "Fusion" drive (HDD/SSD hybrid)
        NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB GDDR5

        Some cursory googling suggests the 680MX is the higher performing GPU.

        Not to mention that the Mac isn't struck with 1080p. It has 2560 x 1440 at 27".

        • I wonder if there are multiple XPS 27" Touch, as looking at their site shows a 1440 screen instead of 1080.

          My main concern with all-in-one's though is how easy they are to do maintenance and the minor part-swap. I'm not a fan of how closed the Apple one is: I don't like having to deal with "stickers" if I have to replace the HD or something. And I have no idea of the Dell is similarly annoying.

          I don't need a huge case... but something that I can at least fit my bear-claw hands in when I have to swap a bro

      • Re:What fud (Score:5, Informative)

        by Nemyst (1383049) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @10:49AM (#44663749) Homepage
        And that GTX 680MX is still not a high-end card, especially when you're talking about a desktop (which this thing is much closer to). It's about in line with a GTX580 (so two generations out of date by now) for an absurdly higher price tag. You're really paying through the nose to get the styling.
        • Re:What fud (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Billly Gates (198444) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @11:01AM (#44663801) Journal

          Those are freaking fast for AIO and couldceasily trounce both the xboxone and ps4. Sure they are not 7990s in crossfire by any sense of the mean but those are niche and add $1100 to the cost of the system. For even crysis which is the most demanding game you can get by with a 670 gtx or a 7870 just ine. You could also argue a crossfire 7990s are low end too because my $3000 quadro or firepro is soo much better and can support 32 monitors etc.

          • It's a 680M card. The mobile card line is terribly crippled compared to anything you can put in a desktop.

            • Re:What fud (Score:5, Informative)

              by Khyber (864651) <techkitsune@gmail.com> on Saturday August 24, 2013 @01:06PM (#44664591) Homepage Journal

              Actually, not even close. The 680M, while supposedly on par performance with a 580 according to notebookcheck (the physical specs on the cards makes me seriously doubt that given the 680M has roughly double the core count and about 300 gflops higher theoretical performance than the desktop 580) is still quite a top-notch mobile GPU.

              Terribly crippled? Physically speaking, the 680M is just a typical desktop 670 chip with lower power consumption.

            • Re:What fud (Score:4, Informative)

              by gman003 (1693318) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @05:42PM (#44665955)

              Not really.

              I use a 660M. It's basically a desktop 650 with a bit of an underclock. The 670MX is basically an underclocked 660, the 675MX is a 670MX with a wider memory bus, the 680M is basically an underclocked 670, and the 680MX is basically an underclocked 680. Now, these underclocks can be rather significant - 25% in some cases. But with the way clock speeds affect power consumptions, that means you're getting 75% the graphics power for 50% the electrical power. Sounds like a good thing, when it comes to laptops.

                Hell, if you're willing to lug around a massive system and drop a few grand on it, you can get SLI laptops - dual 680MX. That's within spitting distance of a top-of-the-line 690. And that's not even getting into the 7xx series, because those are still coming out.

        • A GTX 580 STOMPS all over 1080p, which is a reasonable plateau right now. It will do 1440p no problem too. My 570 is two gens out of date, but it still performs at 1080p flawlessly.
        • Re:What fud (Score:4, Informative)

          by buddyglass (925859) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @02:56PM (#44665171)
          The article original article seemed to suggest that the Dell 27" AIO system represents something "new" in terms of AIO's encroaching on desktop performance levels. That's why I pointed out the 680MX in the iMac. It's not a high-end part when compared to desktop GPUs, but it's superior to the part in the Dell system that was the subject of the article.
    • by hairyfeet (841228)

      And likewise you too are spreading the bull, you could also find damned nice PC AIOs you just weren't gonna get one for a bottom of the barrel price at the Wally World. If you'd have went to the business section you'd have found nice AIOs with decent mobile GPUs, decently powerful CPUs, and many with touch support.

      You just have to remember that unlike Apple and their "one size fits all" you have choices when it comes to PCs and you can choose any price point from "cheap and lousy" like the few Intel Atom

      • Which is my point.

        The author says all AIO are junk including the imac. Not true but sadly close on the pc side. Since you own a shop I am surprised ypu remend such systems as they are a pain in the ass to repair. Shit Apple is gluing things like batteries to the damn case

        • by hedwards (940851)

          The repairability is my main reason for not buying or recommending AIO. Laptops are bad enough, but at least with laptops there's a legitimate reason for it. They need to be small and protable. AIO are kind of questionable as they could just as easily go back to CPUs that lie flat on their side and just change the way that ventilation is done. Set the monitor on top of the CPU and attach clips. There you go. A computer that's very similar to an AIO and a ton easier to repair.

          • by peragrin (659227)

            That's just it how often do you actually repair machines?

            The average person just buys another one anyway when it stops working. If the average components last 3- 5 years by the time you shell out parts you might as well have gotten a new machine anyways.

            Or a car analogy. When your at 300,000 miles and your second engine you might as well give it up and upgrade to something a bit newer.

            I used to love to build my own. but I actually value my time. if I charge myself a decent hourly rate for building and O

            • by Mashiki (184564)

              Or a car analogy. When your at 300,000 miles and your second engine you might as well give it up and upgrade to something a bit newer.

              Your analogy is bad. If you're on your second engine by 300k miles, you're doing something seriously wrong. Any car engine made in the last 15-17 years can easily get 500k miles before their first rebuild. Before the subframe in the front of my saturn broke(love those salty winter roads here in Canada), my car was already at 550k miles(885k km) and that's not even a record on the Series 1 or Series 2 engines, the 'hand me down' van(it has a 3.8L 3800 series) I got from my grandparents has 680k miles on i

              • What are you doing? Commuting from Vancouver to Toronto?

                • by Mashiki (184564)

                  What are you doing? Commuting from Vancouver to Toronto?

                  I used to drive from Southern Ontario to Indiana every week, did that for years. My grandparents old van on the other hand they took it from Ontario to Florida every year, plus they'd take trips all over Canada and the US in it. My car was on it's 17th year, and the van will be 20 years old in two months.

            • by mysidia (191772)

              The average person just buys another one anyway when it stops working. If the average components last 3- 5 years by the time you shell out parts you might as well have gotten a new machine anyways.

              Yes... if you can swap memory chips and hard drive and fans, without too much trouble: I think for most people, that should be enough.

              The problem is of course... mechanical hard drives frequently fail, and so do mechanical fans.

              Easy DIMM swapping is necessary for memory upgrades.

              6GB of RAM might be gre

          • Set the monitor on top of the CPU and attach clips.

            Can the monitor draw power from the computer, or vice versa? And can the monitor send multitouch coordinates back to the computer? The big selling point of the original iMac was less cable clutter.

    • by mikael_j (106439)

      I'm pretty sure this "article" is really just Dell advertising.

    • Re:What fud (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Improv (2467) <pgunn@dachte.org> on Saturday August 24, 2013 @11:03AM (#44663811) Homepage Journal

      Exactly right. When I started my current job, I had an iMac sitting on my desk; I was initially skeptical, but as soon as I saw the machine specs (as I was installing Linux onto it), I fell in love; it's a very nice machine, and my workplace had spiced it up further by putting a lot more RAM and disk into it. It's one of the most pleasant desktops I've ever worked with (and the resolution is amazing).

    • by hedwards (940851)

      I generally build my own desktops because it's the only way of not getting infested with Intel and Microsoft products and still get a decent rig. The selection of desktops that don't use Intel or MS products is pretty limited. But, by building it myself, I can get what I want without having to give money to monopolists.

    • by Teckla (630646)

      The imac had decent specs for years.

      Except for graphics, unless you spent a lot more. (iMac owner here.)

      Fortunately, Apple seems to be putting decent graphics into the base level iMac now, but that certainly was not the case for years.

  • Usage Enforcer Time (Score:5, Informative)

    by Shavano (2541114) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:31AM (#44663323)

    Nothing is "comprised of" anything else. The word you are looking for is composed. An computer comprises components. Components compose or "make up" a computer.

    If enough people misuse a word long enough, that becomes the new meaning.

    • by OzPeter (195038) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:39AM (#44663353)

      Nothing is "comprised of" anything else. The word you are looking for is composed. An computer comprises components. Components compose or "make up" a computer.

      If enough people misuse a word long enough, that becomes the new meaning.

      Oh, the irony!

    • by craigminah (1885846) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:47AM (#44663405)
      It seems not spelling words correctly, misusing words, and poor grammar are so common our language will be forever changed. I see this on TV shows, magazines, newspapers, etc. The other day they were talking on a news show about how teachers in a school district won't correct mistakes on student's homework so long as they explain why they answered the way they did. I for one am sick of this culture of "nobody's wrong, we're all right, we're all winners." It's not going to help our society and will destroy us in the long run.
      • I could care less.

        [ I actually agree with you you, careless use of language is the careless use of one of humanity's most powerful tools. But I could not resist the opportunity for such irony.]

        • by BeerCat (685972)

          I could care less.

          [ I actually agree with you you, careless use of language is the careless use of one of humanity's most powerful tools. But I could not resist the opportunity for such irony.]

          So, with "I could care less", are you being "ironic" or "careless"?

          (If you could care less, then why don't you? On the other hand, if you couldn't care less, then the amount of care has reached a pretty low limit)

      • I for one am sick of this culture of "nobody's wrong, we're all right, we're all winners." It's not going to help our society and will destroy us in the long run.

        Well, that's a false equivalence. You're conflating the "nobody's wrong" anti-aggression/anti-competition feminist agenda with that of communication protocol tolerance. While I agree that competition and even a bit of aggression are healthy components of society -- indeed boys are falling behind in the new non-competitive environments, and even simply challenging them with "betcha can't do X" causes them to perform better than positive reinforcement; Yet teachers are foolishly fearful of fostering compet

        • by Shavano (2541114)
          Search engines are pretty damned primitive when it comes to processing language. They search for the exact words rather than leveraging their meanings and oftentimes rank (self-fulfillingly) popular pages ahead of exact lexical matches for what the user typed.
      • by hedwards (940851)

        You make it sound like this is a new phenomena. The fact that so many people even notice suggests that this is not the case. It's only relatively recently that schools were common enough for people to learn to write; as a result most of the ungrammatical language and spelling errors aren't available for perusal. Then there's folks like Shakespeare that couldn't spell to save their life, and editors of their works have fixed most of the spelling errors and unified the spelling choices a bit.

        As for not correc

      • by Immerman (2627577)

        Honestly I don't really have a problem with spelling, grammar, or punctuation errors; provided they don't interfere with comprehension. Even misuse of homonyms rarely clouds clarity, though it may be slightly jarring.

        But when people start using a word to refer to something unrelated, or minimally related, then that's something well worth pointing out. For two reasons:
        1) if it's an honest mistake then you are improving their vocabulary, and with it their ability to communicate clearly within the applicable

        • by webnut77 (1326189)

          2) if the misuse becomes common then the concept-space itself is lessened by the loss/declarification of the original word, reducing everybody's ability to communicate clearly.

          This! This is so true with 'AS' people. "Please listen carefully AS our menus have recently changed". Whatever happen to 'since' and 'because'? 'AS' means everything nowadays.
          "AS I'm doing my homework, I listen to music". What wrong with the word 'while'?

          The same holds true for the 'myself' people. "Myself and Bob went to town." What's up with that?
          </RANT>

    • Nothing is "comprised of" anything else. The word you are looking for is composed. An computer comprises components. Components compose or "make up" a computer.

      If enough people misuse a word long enough, that becomes the new meaning.

      I could care less! :P

  • by jabberw0k (62554) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:39AM (#44663355) Homepage Journal
    They were every bit as full-featured as component systems. I'm thinking the Intertec Superbrain or my personal favorite, the Heathkit H89. Writing Heathkit software put me through college in the 1980s.
  • Advertisement (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:39AM (#44663359)
    I guess that lab full of 2 year old existing Dell AOIs we have running liquid dynamics simulation software with tons of RAM and high-end Core i7s is just my imagination. This is a Dell advertisement in disguise under the cover of linking to a third party review. Products like this come out every week, why aren't they here? They're just as relevant as this thing.
  • And yet, the Dell still has a mobile GPU.

  • Best buys? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Shavano (2541114) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:45AM (#44663399)
    The submission and linked "story" read like ad copy from Dell. That said, all in ones and midrange laptops have long been best buys in the computing world because all the peripherals that you would otherwise have to pay extra for (and cable to your PC) are built in. It's been the case for years that high-end graphics cards are only worth the money for gamers, video composers, crackers and more recently, gene sequencers.
  • by ItMustBeEsoteric (732632) <ryangilbert AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:50AM (#44663421)
    For only $2100. What a steal!
    • by SpzToid (869795)

      That price *includes* Windows 8 Pro, 64 bit. It really is an all-in-one, unless you use linux; in which case you might as well build your own from parts that will last longer than this sum total unit.

      • With the limited use of Linux for high end graphical tasks, such as gaming, CAD, or Microsoft's locked in tools such as Outlook, it usually makes more sense to run the Windows host as a Windows host directly and run up to half a dozen independent Linux virtual machines on the same host. The well defined virtual environment insulates the desktop or laptop owner from the difficulties of resolving driver issues with whatever chips were added at the last minute, especially if running legacy Linux environments w

        • by h4rr4r (612664)

          You're doing it wrong. Run KVM and let windows be a guest. You can even let it have access to the video card.

  • Not a story. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by redback (15527) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:51AM (#44663427)

    This is an advert.

    • It's an advert for a low spec computer presented as if it was high spec. 32G of flash storage? Come on, my phone has more than that. 27" and only 1080p? That's a 22" resolution, at 27" you'd expect it to be 2600*1600 or something equivalent. 8G ram? Try running anything "high spec" with that.
    • This is an advert.

      The real question is, was Timothy told to put the story up by his bosses, i.e. Slashdot is consciously trying to stick in advertising, or he he JUST THAT STUPID.

  • At last (Score:5, Funny)

    by Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:52AM (#44663435)

    When the hero shoots out the bad guy's monitors and the computers stop working, it will make sense.

  • ...will this "story" go away?

  • I use an all-in-one. I'm quite happy w/ it - it's connected via an UPS, which also powers my router, as well as USB powered toys, like my phone, my iPod and other's. It has 6 USB slots - 4 behind (all used) and 2 extra on the side.

    I just wish they'd toss in an optional battery. That way, in the event of power outages (during storms), it would do a better job, while the UPS could be dedicated to the router. No, it won't be portable, but it does save one from losing one's work if one is in the middle of

    • by Lumpy (12016)

      They do, it's called the small ups under the desk.
      I'd rather use that than a built in battery any day.

      • by unixisc (2429386)
        I do have that, but it has to be bought separately, and can be needed for other things, such as the router.
  • by Ptur (866963) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @09:54AM (#44663453)
    No thanks...
  • Eliminates clutter (Score:4, Informative)

    by sk999 (846068) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @10:00AM (#44663489)

    I bought an HP all-in-one a few years ago to replace a traditional floor tower, monitor and external speakers. With most things being built in, plus the integrated wireless, I eliminated 10 cables, 2 external boxes, and one power brick. A full-featured laptop could also have worked, but it is nice to have the big screen, and I leave it on all the time anyway.

  • by garyoa1 (2067072) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @10:02AM (#44663499)

    The AI1's are essentially a laptop with a stand and no cover. Have fun upgrading it or fixing it when there's an internal problem. Twice the money for half the computer. Sounds like an idea Apple would come up with. Oh... wait...

    • The components in the Dell Inspiron One's and XPS all in one are modular. The dissassembly instructions are pretty straight forward, much simpler than a laptop. Other than the mainboard, most of the accessory components are standard off the shelf parts. The processor is socketed. standard memory modules and hard disk. I bought one for my wife; and, I wouldn't have considered it, if I thought it might end up scrapped one day for failure of something as simple as a fan.
  • by MatthiasF (1853064) on Saturday August 24, 2013 @10:09AM (#44663533)
    I like the idea of an all-in-one computer, but making them look like a monitor (with a stand and such) is a waste of the form factor.

    Units that are designed to resemble tablets, with no stand or a retractable stand, can be used in more variety than units like this Dell be advertised by the article.

    Take a look at Lenovo's Horizon 27 inch or Sony's Vaio Tap 20.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ideacentre-horizon-27-review-all-in-one,3564.html [tomshardware.com]

    http://store.sony.com/p/Sony-Desktop,-20-inch,-Tap-20,-VAIO-Touch,-VAIO-Desktop,-Core-i5,-Windows-8,-3rd-gen-Intel,-touch-display,-all-in-one,-touchscreen/en/p/SVJ20217CXW [sony.com]

    Both can be laid flat, the Lenovo unit can be angled well by it's strong spring stand from 90 degrees down to 5 degrees of the desk making it comfortable to lean over and use to draw. It also comes with a suite of games that can be played while it's flat, from board games to billiards or air hockey.

    I think all-in-ones should be going this direction. The instances where they will be used typically in this form factor will not require their screen site to get larger and their performance is easily enough to handle almost anything typical these days, so the disadvantage of not being able upgrade individual pieces of the hardware (screen or internals) is moot.
  • Key to the old tower is we can add to it.TV tuner card , expansions of all kinds , decent sound cards etc, Expansion and space in the case for other devices ( IDE cards and old drives , drive trays etc There's a lot of things we can do with a tower we can't with all in ones. For the amateur it may be ok , but for the serious computer enthusiast all in ones are too limited to be considered a suitable platform.

    • That will always be true for enthusiasts. And not just in the IT industry (car analogy coming...) People like old cars. Why? Because they're easier to modify and tinker with.
  • Imac's have been way ahead of dell for years in the "all in one" design world. So now Dell finally stopped making low grade garbage all in ones?

    Here is to hoping they used the right parts so I can hackintosh it. Oh wait, they cost as much as an iMac.... Ahhh...

  • This isn't news. SlashAdvertorials will continue until we stand up and embarrass the products enough the advertisers tell the editors to stop this stealth nonsense.

  • by Meeni (1815694)

    When did the 750m became a solid performer exactly? It's a piece of junk that's just good to run Aero, just like any of its predecessors in the mobile GPU arena, where only the top line is a mediocre performer matching the "mid-range" desktop GPU.

    So, nothing changed, really.

  • With some things, they just never learn. And sadly, this march is being led by Microsoft and the OEMs are beholden to their power. We had touchscreen in the 80s. Nobody wanted it then either.

  • This is BLATANT paid for advertising, especially with the ridiculous title. All in ones finally grow up?

    Thing is, do they really think there are Slashdot readers that give a flying fuck about this underwhelming PC.

  • So, in the end, basically all computers are iMacs, Macbook Airs, iPads, or iPhones now (some made by Apple and others not).
  • The video performance is slightly less than something like a radeon 7750, 89$ on newegg. You could maybe buy 3 desktops like this for that price. But with in AIO you stuck with that level of performance forever. And most all in one's support dual monitors. Not a serious machine.
  • http://imgur.com/unu0ROc [imgur.com]

    It's an ergotron neo-flex with a mini-tower and a vesa-compatible monitor on the front. It's a computer that I can put away every day.

    I used to have gaming laptops for this purpose, but I got tired of them dying heat deaths. I can upgrade the monitor and processing parts separately, and use whatever peripherals I want.

We will have solar energy as soon as the utility companies solve one technical problem -- how to run a sunbeam through a meter.

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