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Can Dell and HP Keep Pace With An Asia-Centric PC World? 218

Posted by timothy
from the anything-they-set-their-minds-to dept.
MojoKid writes "If you've paid any attention to the PC industry in the past few years, you're aware that things aren't as rosy as they used to be. After decades of annual growth, major manufacturers like HP and Dell have both either floated the idea of exiting the consumer space (HP) or gone private (Dell). Contrast that with steady growth at companies like Asus and Lenovo, and some analysts think the entire PC industry could move to Asia in the next few years. The ironic part of the observation is that in many ways, this has already happened. Asia-Pacific manufacturers are more focused on the consumer electronics market and better able to cope with low margins thanks to rapid adoption and huge potential customer bases. Apple has proven that high margin hardware can be extremely profitable, but none of the PC OEMs have been willing to risk the R&D costs or carry new products for a significant period of time while they adapt designs and improve market share."
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Can Dell and HP Keep Pace With An Asia-Centric PC World?

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  • by Murdoch5 (1563847) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @12:49PM (#42922247)
    Just offer options that customers want! For instance don't only offer Windows's based notebooks, offer Linux as an option, imporve tech support so people can actually get help. Offer GREAT hardware, not just the cheap crap.
    • by DogDude (805747)
      For instance don't only offer Windows's based notebooks, offer Linux as an option,

      +1 Funny!
    • by jbolden (176878)

      Well first off Dell has been selling Unix options for over 2 decades, they used to OEM SCO to have their own Dell Unix. Off and on they have offered Unix desktops. In any case, there are companies that sell Linux notebooks and desktops. If this were a truly big seller you would expect to see them doing more volume.

      As far as tech support Dell and HP both offer better tech support as a paid option. Dell in particular had 3 consumer tiers and let consumers pick.

      Finally on great hardware, consumers for Wind

    • by Skapare (16644)

      It would be simple enough to just make sure all the parts in the desktop, laptop, notebook, and tablet offerings can run a stock Linux. If some company trying to sell you parts won't make it work in a stock Linux, then it's crap and you should not use it because in the end it will break even under Windows. Then have options for the OS: (1) Windows 8 with full support, (2) Windows 7 with full support, (3) Linux Mint 14.1 with hardware support (labeled "geek special" ... they are going to replace it with A

      • by hairyfeet (841228)

        Tried it, don't work, why? Because what is stable NOW may NOT be stable 7 months or a year from now, see how Atheros was the "go to" for wireless then suddenly their drivers were broken for either one rev or two revs, can't off the top of my head remember which. Doesn't really matter because if I had sold Linux all my customers with Atheros would have had worthless laptops until it was fixed which is simply unacceptable.

        Until you show me a Linux that 1.- Cost less than Windows, 2.- Can be installed NOW and

    • Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hairyfeet (841228) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday February 16, 2013 @02:53PM (#42922919) Journal

      Riiiight, that is why every retailer from Best Buy to Walmart, and nearly all the OEMs from Dell to MSI have tried offering Linux and now avoid it like the black death. You see as a retailer there is one little bitty thing the "FOSSies" as i call them seem to forget...if you don't stand behind your products you are dead in retail.

      What does that have to do with Linux? Simple your drivers are deep fried shit (thus showing that yes you DO need a stable ABI, if you didn't then your drivers wouldn't be getting crapped on so damned often) and your updates remind of Win9X in that they break more than they fix. Don't believe me? Step right up and take the Hairyfeet Challenge!

      You take ANY user friendly distro, PCLOS, any of the *Buntus that has what a Linux users considers to be a normal release schedule which seems to be anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half, take the one from 5 years ago (because as a retailer I can tell you the typical lifespan of a PC now is 5 years) and update it to current using ONLY the GUI, just as the customer who has bought Linux for the first time would be expected to do.

      Know what you'll find? Linux IS BROKEN, I don't give a shit what Use Distro X! [tmrepository.com] you name, I have tried it on a dozen so far and its ALWAYS the same, you have multiple drivers BROKEN and a system that is just a mess, in fact many times if you actually just update the thing as you would expect a normal user to do what you end up with is less stable than Win95. Talk about amateur hour, dead WiFi, graphics drivers shat upon, again doesn't really matter which vendor as they all ended up shat upon, from Intel and Nvidia IGP to Nvidia and AMD discrete, all were crapped on by the updates,sound? Bwa ha ha ha, if you think Pulse is gonna survive I have a bridge to nowhere for sale, and even something as simple as basic wired networking can be hit or miss.

      So I'm sorry but until you get somebody with a brain to be the head of a distro, one who'll flip the bird to Torvalds and just fork the whole damned thing and make a Linux distro where you can update the damned thing without shit breaking? We retailers would rather try to sell Vista than take that POS because it drives our after sale support costs through the roof. This is why the ONLY place you see Linux systems sold is online, because "all sales are final now fuck off" is pretty much the norm when it comes to online sales. this is the opposite of retail where if I told a customer whose PC wasn't even 2 months old "Go Google for a fix" I'd be closing my doors in under 6 months.

      I really wish it wasn't true, that the state of desktop Linux wasn't so piss poor, but it is. why do you think I tried over a dozen "user friendly" distros with that test? Because I WANTED it not to be true, as MSFT gouges us system builders and having a free OS that actually ran well and could be put on all those XP boxes that come through the store? would have been great...too bad the product IS BROKEN.

      Linux works in servers because not only do you have guys getting paid a high 5 figures to deal with broken shit and because frankly a LOT of the problem components just aren't there. You don't see servers running WiFi or even sound and most don't have full GUIs, same thing goes for embedded where you get the added bonus of most stuff is never updated.

      And I apologize for the length but I am fucking sick of FOSSies trying to blame us retailers for Windows while they keep pushing a piss poor broken product that ignores what we retailers have to have to actually put your product on shelves. hell now Ubuntu is killing LTS and going rolling release, so it can break constantly! I swear Linux devs must like in the bizarro world, its like "Quick things am stable! This not good, our users won't feel leet if they not got broken shit to fix! We must throw out all the stable stuff, break the drivers, toss the DEs for alpha quality crap, then users feel am leet!"...sigh. I said a million times here what we retailers

      • Re:Yes (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Areyoukiddingme (1289470) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @03:35PM (#42923157)

        That ended up as something of a rant, but it's all true. I've been periodically trying to use Linux as my desktop since the late '90s, and it has always ALWAYS sucked. To the point where I abandoned the RedHat distribution in 2001 because of self-contradictory package dependencies. For a while, it was simply impossible to have a sane system at all. I dumped it. I've used Debian since then, but even they have run into that same sort of idiocy. They're all better about packages now, but the driver situation is definitely a disaster. Linux supports a truly impressive array of legacy hardware, but too often, something somewhere is broken and has to be manually tweaked in a config file somewhere. WiFi never EVER works right.

        And yeah, sorry, the whole sound subsystem situation is just beyond retarded. I don't even understand that one. I've been coding to music for almost 20 years now (the sound isolation is absolutely essential in an office environment), and I know I'm far from unusual in that respect, so why oh why is Linux audio an utter trainwreck? It boggles the mind.

        So I use a Windows desktop, and run XWin32 if I need access to Linux GUI apps, and PuTTY for everything else, and it takes something like ChromeOS to finally get close to a Linux Year of the Desktop.

        • by hairyfeet (841228)

          And this is what piss me off about the FOSSies, they act like anybody that isn't slurping the GNUkoolaid HAS to be some dirty shill.

          You know how many damned years I been trying the Hairyfeet challenge just trying to find ONE, just one, that would pass? Going on 6 years. How many years did I use Linux as my personal OS? 3 and a half, trying over a dozen in that time as one would break shit and I'd move to another, just a glutton for punishment. Know how much Windows licenses eats into my bottom line? Sometim

          • Huh. Now that I think about it... Add that to your list of distributions to try. Chromium OS is what Google calls the freely available version of ChromeOS. Maybe the geniuses at Google have their shit together enough not to break drivers? Might be worth a try. Since you seem determined.

      • by graphius (907855)

        I dare you to do the same with MS Windows, or even Apple for that matter.... Doing multiple updates IN ANY OS can cause problems.

        • I actually did exactly that two days ago. Took an old netbook, replaced its harddrive with an SSD, installed Windows 7 RTM on it, and updated everything from the drivers to the SP1 with the latest patches. Took a few hours - an Atom N270 is slow - but worked out fine otherwise.

        • by hairyfeet (841228)

          Challenge accepted! I HAVE done the same with Windows, taking Vista with MS Office 2K7 (which would give the same 5 years the Linux fails at) and updated to current and guess what? ALL of the drivers worked, not some, not most ALL of the drivers worked. And the fucking programs that came with it worked too! I have even done this with XP, that is TWELVE YEARS worth of SPs and updates, fired up the MS Office 2K at the end? tada! It all fucking WORKS.

          Again pick your poison, PCLOS, Ubuntu, you name it it will N

          • by graphius (907855)

            OK, I have not done this over 12 years, because I have changed a few things over that time, drives have died etc, but I have rarely had a problem upgrading my linux boxes.
            I have had drivers break, hardware become flaky etc with windows. Hell, I recently had a new windows 8 machine bluescreen continually because the antivirus that worked very well in win 7 broke during an update.

        • Windows support is my profession and working at a university I get to deal with old systems, and old OSes. It isn't a big deal. I've installed XP, a 12 year old OS, loaded drivers, and patched it to current all from the GUI, and without any real amount of trouble.

          MS really does support their OSes quite well and it really isn't a big deal to get them working and up to date, so long as they are still under support (2000 is not patched anymore, for example).

      • by alexgieg (948359)

        yes you DO need a stable ABI

        That, right there, is the reason I went back to Windows in 2010 after using Ubuntu exclusively for over 2 years.

        Last week I tried the live install CD of Ubuntu 12.10. The CD I just downloaded, from the official server. Guess what? No audio! And this is the exact same box I used back then with Ubuntu 10.10, in which audio worked. So, yeah.

        Also: clicking a local drive doesn't open it within the live CD environment doesn't open. There's been a command line (command line!) workaround to fix the issue for months

      • by Kjella (173770)

        So I'm sorry but until you get somebody with a brain to be the head of a distro, one who'll flip the bird to Torvalds and just fork the whole damned thing and make a Linux distro where you can update the damned thing without shit breaking?

        Unfortunately it's not Torvalds you should flip the bird to. There are a lot of components that live between the applications and the kernel, and pulseaudio is one of them. Here's a pretty good illustration [wikimedia.org], Linus controls the kernel layer with the ALSA/OSS hardware drivers, HAL and network stack (for remote sound), but not the pulse engine or library layer. Also all USB devices work in the same way, the kernel only has basic USB read/write functions so if your device doesn't have drivers it's not Linus or

        • /agreed Mr. Torvalds is not the problem - if anything, he has held Linux together under outrageous intrusions from application space.

          I perceive what is happening as signaling a sea change. Comercial interests (Redhat, Canonical, etc) see now as the time to push their agendas - if they control something - then they can control it's evolution. However, they are forgetting one thing: linux users want results. It is plain to me that most of these large distros don't give a rat's patootie about the average

      • by Murdoch5 (1563847)
        Your argument is that your incapable of running a stable Linux system and there for it's to dangerous for OEM's to offer. Well for that entire rant of nothing you put up I can tell you that you know nothing of how to install, configure, use or enjoy Linux. Your talk about how Driver support sucks ..... That proves you don't understand drivers on Linux and you have no idea on how drivers work. You claim update break Linux but that only if you fuck around with the update process.

        You've used dozens of di
      • by Patch86 (1465427)

        What does that have to do with Linux? Simple your drivers are deep fried shit (thus showing that yes you DO need a stable ABI, if you didn't then your drivers wouldn't be getting crapped on so damned often) and your updates remind of Win9X in that they break more than they fix. Don't believe me? Step right up and take the Hairyfeet Challenge!

        ...

        You take ANY user friendly distro, PCLOS, any of the *Buntus that has what a Linux users considers to be a normal release schedule which seems to be anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half, take the one from 5 years ago (because as a retailer I can tell you the typical lifespan of a PC now is 5 years) and update it to current using ONLY the GUI, just as the customer who has bought Linux for the first time would be expected to do.

        What a load of nonsense. I stopped reading after these bits.

        Drivers on Linux have been fine for years. The Nvidia binary graphics driver works better on my desktop's Ubuntu dual boot than it does on the Windows 7 one, and was selected by default when I installed it. I haven't had a wireless or sound issue since about 2008; they always work fine out of the box. Plug and play plugs-and-plays exactly as you'd expect.

        Ubuntu releases regular as clockwork- 6 months for their "bleeding edge" release, 2 years for t

    • by gtall (79522)

      Customer: Wow, great looking machines, show me what they can do.

      Salesdroid: Well, this here Windows machine runs all Windows software that you probably already have. This Linux machine runs maybe a little of the software you already have, but you'll need to download versions for Linux..but its easy.

      Customer: Gee...download software, that's dangerous, that's how my current Windows box got wedged.

      Salesdroid: But Linux is safer, just don't agree to install anything you don't want...errr....or something.

      Custome

      • by Murdoch5 (1563847)
        Seriously......That's your sales pitch.

        Customer: Hello, I need a new computer, I know your company now carries this thing call Linux what is it, is it better then Windows.

        Sales: Well Linux is a new platform, it run's the same kind of programs Windows can, it's safe for Virus's and Malware and it's fast, lightweight and well supported.

        Customer: Oh okay, well I need Office, Facebook, Skype and Games, how do I buy or install them on Linux.

        Sales: Well unlike Windows where you flush money down the toil
  • by ISoldat53 (977164) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @12:52PM (#42922265)
    "You can't get good chili in Taiwan."
  • by ElectricTurtle (1171201) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @12:53PM (#42922271)
    The summary seems oblivious to the ODM/OEM relationships that have existed for decades. Dell and HP don't *make* anything, they just rebrand things made by Arima, Compal, Uniwill, Quanta, Clevo, etc. Taiwan designs and manufactures everything, Dell and HP simply slap some stickers on them and retail them with the addition of whatever service/support package.

    The whole market has belonged to Asia for a generation, and it's not going to change.
    • The whole market? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @06:32PM (#42924201)

      Not really. The case/layout is some of the least of the technical parts of a computer. All the components inside are the higher tech bits and you find they come from all over. The big daddy, the CPU, is usually from the US. Most of Intel's fabs are in the US, and their design centres are in the US and Israel. Same deal with the motherboard chipset, though their Ireland fab does quite a few of those. Assembly largely depends on where you are, they have packaging facilities in the US, Costa Rica, Vietnam, Malaysia, and China.

      The graphics card, if there's a separate one, was fabbed in Taiwan by TSMC, at least for now (both AMD and nVidia re displeased with them) but designed in either the US or Canada since that's where nVidia and AMD respectively have their design centers. All development is done there.

      For memory it really runs the gamut. Depending on the company the chips can get fabbed in the US, EU, or Asia and final assembly of the sticks is often done elsewhere. Some places, like Micron, like their own modules, others buy from other companies (Kingston favours Hyynix these days).

      Storage it varies. HDDs are all Asia all the time. Final assembly is pretty much Malaysia or China. Components come from various places, motors notably from just one firm in Thailand. For SSDs it again depends on the company. Samsung is all internal and does their own flash, CPU (though it is based on an ARM core) and construction. They do final assembly in Korea, the flash itself is sometimes fabbed in Korea though a lot of it is fabbed in Texas (Samsung has a big plant there). Intel buys their controllers from Sandforce, a US company, but they are fabless so Intel fabs the ones they use. Their flash they make themselves mostly in their Utah but also Singapore (the facilities are co-owned Intel and Micron).

      For discrete components, like caps and so on, then Japan is usually the big supplier. It varies some, China is used as well, but Japan is still real, real big in the discrete components game.

      Power supplies? That's all China all the time. There are only a couple companies that make them, and they do the design work too. They put out a PSU design, companies then alter the specs to their liking (upgrading components for better reliability or whatnot) and then they are built to order.

      LCDs are mostly Korea in terms of panels, though China is in that market too, and nearly all China for final assembly.

      Computers are really quite an international production. They use parts form all over, and designs from all over. Remember that the place that produces a part isn't necessarily the place that designed it. This is not only true for fabless companies like nVidia, but even for companies like Intel. They don't do design, fab, packaging, and all that in one facility, they are all over the place.

      To say the market belongs to Asia is rather silly. It belongs to the world.

      Oh and with regards to Dell? Have a look at the systems you get in the US. Mexico and Brazil are the usual sources for final assembly, not Asia.

    • BINGO. Japan and the USA gave up on defending displays over 20 years ago, depending on software as the chip technology leaked away.

      And I tire of the Slashdot anti-Asian chatter, sounds like the old men who complained about selling "scraps to Japs" in the recycling business in the 1960s, as if Japanese steel mills use of USA scrap in the 1960s had something to do with WWII. That may sound off topic, but if you are my age you remember all the anti Japanese drum beating, how threatening Japan was to the

      • by sethstorm (512897)

        Those aren't "neighbors" to be trusted given their attempts to take over First World companies and enslavement of their own people - or to otherwise slight the US.

        The Tiananmen Square Massacre sealed China's fate as a forever-despotic country. Other countries just use the cover of offshoring by multinational companies to further their whitewashed despotism.

        Those arent neighbors that you want, but neighbors you want to remove.

    • by unixisc (2429386)

      The summary seems oblivious to the ODM/OEM relationships that have existed for decades. Dell and HP don't *make* anything, they just rebrand things made by Arima, Compal, Uniwill, Quanta, Clevo, etc. Taiwan designs and manufactures everything, Dell and HP simply slap some stickers on them and retail them with the addition of whatever service/support package. The whole market has belonged to Asia for a generation, and it's not going to change.

      This is the most obvious point about this story that I'm surprised that everybody above overlooked it. None of the US PC makers - Dell, HP, Acer et al have made their PCs in quite a while. As ElectricTurtle pointed out, they just rebrand systems made by the likes of Arima, Compal, Quanta, et al w/ their logo. So this is really more of a cosmetic change, w/ truth in advertising finally arriving. In fact, it makes more sense to by a laptop from Acer or Asus, since they in fact do make their own PCs, whic

  • by Kjella (173770) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @12:55PM (#42922285) Homepage

    The components have been made in the East for a long time now, particularly Taiwan was famous long before China. For those that missed the memo, the recent HDD crisis was due to floodings in Thailand which is in SE Asia. All sorts of optics and related electronics is heavily centered around Japanese companies like Canon, Nikon and Sony. The OEMs have mostly just been assembling systems from standard parts which is a commodity service.

    • Remember the capacitor plague of the early 00s. It was due to faulty capacitors coming out of Taiwan. These capacitors were cheaper than Japanese ones and worked as well . . . for a time. What wasn't known was that industrial espionage had allowed the Tawainese to copy the chemical formulation. But they didn't get the entire formula. They lacked a part that provided long term stability.
  • Windows 8 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jbolden (176878) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @01:10PM (#42922375) Homepage

    Up until 2011 Microsoft's strategy was to drive up PC marketshare but controlling the low end. Microsoft was very worried about initiatives like Sun/Oracle's Java Desktop to use thiner client distributed software and lower end machines. Their strategy was to push the price of PCs down low enough so that there weren't meaningful cost saving is just using server based architectures and local program execution was the norm. This is the same reason they focused so heavily on getting control of web technologies and tying them to Internet Explorer / Windows.

    With the success of open Web Standards the move towards server based services is happening. This has required a strategy change. Windows 8 systems to work well require more expensive hardware. Microsoft is reintroducing margin back into the business and driving the cost of hardware up. They are willing now to sacrifice the low end so that the total experience on rich clients is much much better than on thinner architectures. Dell and HP sell mainly to corporations. Corporations are still years away from migrating to real Windows 8 hardware as a norm. I think this is short sighted on Dell/HP's part because in 5 years there is likely to be margin in the business. They've now gone through most of the lean years and just as the market is going to go back to being high profit they are exiting.

    Once other companies get the experience in making powerful multi paradigm machines it will be hard for these companies to reenter the market. That being said I think Dell isn't existing the PC market, rather I think they going private so they can undergo a restructuring without having to provide regular public scrutiny.

    • by ljw1004 (764174)

      Windows 8 systems to work well require more expensive hardware.

      How so? I thought Windows 8 had lower hardware requirements than Windows 7. The windowing system for WinRT apps is certainly much less CPU-intensive than WPF was for the desktop. And lots of Windows Store apps will be aimed to work on much lower-powered devices (e.g. ARM) than Win7 desktop apps were.

      • You need to buy a touch screen to get the best experience.
      • by jbolden (176878)

        Touchscreen. And more expensive than touchscreen a hinge to move from laptop to tablet form. Generally a far better touchpad. And I suspect input is going to get more versatile more cool and more expensive during 2013.

      • Win 8 requires the same hardware as Win 7. There have been a number of improvements which have made it faster and more stable than Win 7. Win RT is not Win 8; it is specifically designed to run on ARM. Any programs compiled for RT will run on Win 8 as well; however, legacy x86/64 programs or programs today written for Win 7/Vista/XP will not run on RT. This is confusing and I anticipate many consumers being equally confused.
  • I've built around 150 PCs at my shop thus far and had 1 part failure ever in around 5 years. My computers are absolutely perfect and a 120GB SSD + Pentium G860 + 4GB of RAM system runs around $475, data transfer included. Good luck competing with that. I think people like me are in every town and we're putting HP and Dell out of business. Oh, and if you didn't hear, Best Buy is closing all retail locations over the next 5 years. Yay, we crushed them. Inferior products and services fail in free markets
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I've built around 150 PCs at my shop thus far and had 1 part failure ever in around 5 years. My computers are absolutely perfect and a 120GB SSD + Pentium G860 + 4GB of RAM system runs around $475,

      Jesus Christ you must have a mountain of debt to still be in business.

  • In very large public corporations the CEO is concerned with "managing numbers & people".

    To lead in a technology arena, you need to really focus on long term strategic leading edge R&D.

    I don't see evidence of that at HP & Dell. It is too easy for their CEO to say "We are acquiring our technology by buying companies." Has that worked out well?

    • by jbolden (176878)

      Michael Dell invented a whole new method of manufacturing. He's still alive and he's the one taking it private.

      HP has moved away from its engineering roots, no question. But yes it does a lot of R&D.

      • Dell may not go private with 2 large stockholders resisting the deal. I still see no evidence of total commitment to unique products @ Dell, so they are just a commodity business. I hear no raves about Dell as a technology leader.

        HP used to be that way. Carly essentially tossed a lot of engineering and development overboard.

        Can HP save itself with a robust and market leading memristor technology, like ink-jet printing once did?

        • by jbolden (176878)

          Dell never had unique products. What Dell had was a unique process for building products that allowed them to offer customized systems at commodity prices. They were a technology leader in how their computers were assembled not what was in them.

          I agree that HP moved from a technology company to a services company. I don't think any particular technology can save them, they are too big. Technologies now exist to help them sell services. But I can see lots of areas where HP could be very very successful

  • by bogaboga (793279) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @01:23PM (#42922467)

    Asia-Pacific manufacturers are more focused on the consumer electronics market and better able to cope with low margins thanks to rapid adoption and huge potential customer bases.

    How about:

    (1) Less greed,

    (2) Being nimble

    (3) Proper labor relations and management?

    (4) The sense that, "We can beat them at their game?"

    (5) Proud citizenry - Those Asians usually patronize Asian
        made goods. You ask a Japanese what the best car is.
        They'll tell you it's a Toyota! They then buy that!

    • I'll give you 2 (nimble), and 4+5 (local pride), but how does (e.g.) Foxconn exemplify less greed and proper labor relations and management? I guess for certain values of "proper labor relations" you could be right, but probably not what most people think of!

    • less greed? I doubt it...

      proper labor relations?
      you mean that workers are crammed into sweat shops, making $1/hr or less, no benefits or health insurance/care, sleep on cots and don't see their families for a month at a time... Here is where the real difference is...

    • When Americans patronize American-made products it is a sign of bigotry.
    • by tlhIngan (30335)

      (1) Less greed,
      (3) Proper labor relations and management?

      You're kidding, right?

      Asians are some of the MOST greedy people around - you've never done business until you've done it in Asia.

      They will bulldoze a seller to save a few pennies - paying full price is for chumps. Ever wonder why people use the crappy capacitors that'll fail early? That's why - unless you demand top quality components, they'll sub in the cheapest.

      And labor? Really? You think Apple demands that Foxconn mistreats its workers?

  • by kurt555gs (309278)

    See above.

  • There is no profit in PCs anyway.
  • Every HP desktop I've bought in the last 10 years contained an ASUS motherboard.

  • by spasm (79260) on Saturday February 16, 2013 @07:40PM (#42924555) Homepage

    "..things aren't as rosy as they used to be. ... the entire PC industry could move to Asia in the next few years."

    So a shitload of people who live in places called "third world" only a generation ago are now making their living doing something better than stoop labor in a paddy field, and this is "not as rosy as [it] used to be"?

    Come up with a new and better technology if you don't like being undercut by the up-and-comers.

    • by sethstorm (512897)

      The problem is that they're still despotic junk pushers and not being punished for it.

      How about being willing to protect our own and not selling our country's sovereignty to the highest bidder? Then again you would try to split the audience and pit it against our country by using the word consumer. In another era, McCarthy would have made it living hell for businesses to deal with Asia as closely as you wish.

  • Given the general low quality from the Asia-specific machines(aside from Japan home-market-only hardware if you want to count them as such), this means attention to hardware quality goes out the window. It will be made with no attention to First World concepts such as quality or performance.

    That and expect more Engrish in GB2312 to accompany that junk - since we couldnt pursue a national security exception when this started with IBM's spinoff with their PC division.

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