China Telco Replaces Cisco Devices Over Security Concerns 180
hackingbear writes "China Unicom, the country's second largest telecom operator, has replaced Cisco Systems routers in one of the country's most important backbone networks, citing security reasons [due to bugs and vulnerability.) The move came after a congressional report branded Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. and ZTE Corp. security threats in the United States, citing bugs and vulnerability (rather than actual evidence of spying.) Surprising to us, up to now, Cisco occupies a large market share in China. It accounts for over a 70 percent share of China Telecom's 163 backbone network and over an 80 percent share of China Unicom's 169 backbone network. Let's wait to see who's the winner in this trade war disguised as national security."
Seems smart to me (Score:4, Insightful)
Why should the Chinese trust American equipment and vice versa. It's not like these are objects that get sent to another country never to be see again, they get put on networks, many available publicly.
national insecurity (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a trade war disguised as national security, it's national security disguised as a trade war. There's been no evidence presented of any backdoors. I'm quite certain that by now, many intelligence organizations have taken the chips apart and scanned them down and if they'd found anything there would have been a reaction. But there hasn't been -- it's just been hints, allegations, and rumor. It's disinformation, because there's no truth to go on, just more communist red-baiting. Not to say China doesn't have the resources, and doesn't have a long and inglorious history of electronic espionage... but so does France and nobody says a peep about them.
The United States isn't worried about China because it poses a military threat, or a "cyber" threat, or a terrorist threat... they're scared shitless because this country has clubbed and beaten its rivals over the head with economic policies and rules. China has us by the balls on rare earth metals, and most of our consumer electronics are made in Asia. If they decide to play economic hardball, we're going to lose. For a country that's grown complacent being able to pick up a phone and make every other country on the planet bend over and drop their pants to please the all-mighty american dollar... we're fucking terrified that there's a couple billion people about to industrialize and their economy is a jaugernaut. It won't be long before our military is the only thing remarkable about our country -- and it won't be sustainable without a solid economy to back it.
In 20 years, we're going to be facing the same situation the Soviet Union did: They died because they tried to maintain their military at the expense of their economy. This is a game we're going to lose, badly. That's why every trade sanction, disinformation campaign, and high profile story about places like FoxConn are desperately sought after by our military and economic leaders... if China manages to develop its economy much more, we're screwed.
Re:national insecurity (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Who Cares? (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, but then we will all have to start from zero.
How are your skills for a 1790 environment?
Lot of well educated folks right here will only be good for physical labor.
A trade war with whom? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's wait to see who's the winner in this trade war disguised as national security."
A trade with whom? Both companies' equipment is made in China. Cisco just sells their stuff.
As for paranoia, the US should be paranoid about Cisco stuff be made in China. It certainly gives me the willies. As does the fact that our medicine and vitamins are made over there as well. But that has had a good affect on me, I guess, as I am eating more local grown foods and staying away from processed foods. Except for Heath bars. Can't resist those.
Re:In other news 2 years later... (Score:5, Insightful)
You didn't FTFY. American companies willingly taught the Chinese how to build high-tech. They shipped thousands of manufacturing jobs to Asia so that they could save a buck or two. The Chinese did more than just copy; they learned.
I'm not saying there wasn't *any* corporate espionage (on both sides, BTW). But the effects on the American economy of spying pales in comparison to the effects wrought by the gutting of America's manufacturing abilities.
Re:national insecurity (Score:5, Insightful)
1. You're just going to have to trust me on this: it is not possible to find backdoors in microchips by "tearing them down". The CIA or NSA or whoever wouldn't even both to try. Instead, they would bribe some Chinese worker to tell them, or they would drop a flash drive with a virus in the parking lot and gain access to the company's emails, or something like that.
2. If we couldn't get electronics from China, we'd get them from Korea or Japan or Taiwan or Thailand or wherever. Or make them here, thanks to advances in automation. The reduction in supply would raise prices for a while, but we could adjust. Your OPEC analogy doesn't work because oil is a resource that is specific to certain areas. Labor is not.
3. Absolutely agree on why people hate the US, and I agree that our foreign policy shouldn't involve playing world cop (especially since we seem to be a dirty cop). But the fact that people's reasons for anger towards the US are valid does not mean that their predictions of America's fall will come true.
4. "The Chinese are worker ants." Now come on, that's just offensive. They're humans, just like everywhere else. People died building the Great Wall, they also died building the transcontinental railroad in the US. The US developed to the point that people weren't willing to put up with that anymore, and China will too.
5. "Britain's navy was once to be feared, ... [now] they're a mere shadow of what they once were". Wait, weren't you complaining about America's imperialism a couple paragraphs ago? What Britain "once was", was a tyrannical empire that killed countless people and destroyed nations all over the world to enrich themselves. Now they're a much calmer nation that provides good quality of life for their people, and doesn't go around hurting others. Why, exactly, would it be bad for America to follow in their footsteps?
You should care (Score:5, Insightful)
We can only hope that the global financial system collapses. Maybe then, it can be rebuilt into something that actually works.
Hope you enjoy starving/freezing to death. If you manage to hoard enough canned food and heating oil to survive, enjoy being beaten to death by thieves.
In the meantime, a drastically reduced worldwide population can enjoy its "new global financial system" - i.e. - a "king" or "lord" (the heartless guy with the most weapons) tells you what you are allowed to use for money, what you are allowed to buy, how much of it you can buy, etc. And of course, you can kiss industry and manufacturing goodbye since there will be no capital investment and no methods of distribution - so your shopping choices will be, shall we say, very limited. Talk to a North Korean refugee when you get a chance - they'll tell you how much fun the new "financial system" will be.
Re:In other news 2 years later... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because China and Japan share some similarities does not mean they will keep increasing their similarity. The world is at a different stage now than when Japan was starting out. Power was manufacturing then but now it's information and knowledge. It was about making stuff back then but now it's about creating stuff. The modern environment may not take China where Japan went.
On one side, when China is sufficiently ahead technologically, China may decide not to be the factory of the world and dedicate millions of people and billions of yuan to research into curing cancer, solving clean energy problems and so on and generally making the lives better instead chasing consumerism. The Chinese authorities have to make things better for the population every year for everyone to be quiet and maybe everyone will have quality of life above the west European countries eventually because of this.
Or they may the big Japan producing gizmos for the world, slowly producing mega-corporations.
Or they may crash and burn.
There is a lot of murmur that capitalism has served well in the manufacturing phase of our human history but might not be best suited for post-manufacturing economies. Sitting around waiting for someone somewhere to make some breakthrough and creating industries out of it might not be the best way forward. Maybe national and global push towards solving the world's problems might be the way instead of hoping the invisible hand fixes it. Maybe a system like China where large central decisions are made and pseudo-capitalism creates efficiencies in those central pushes is the best way forward, or maybe the old communist ugliness will rear it's ugly head and create massive inefficiencies. I guess we have to wait and see where the world is headed and in that frame where China will be.