Cheap Solar Panels Made With An Ion Cannon 395
MrSeb writes "Twin Creeks, a solar power startup that emerged from hiding today, has developed a way of creating photovoltaic cells that are half the price of today's cheapest cells, and thus within reach of challenging the fossil fuel hegemony. As it stands, almost every solar panel is made by slicing a 200-micrometer-thick (0.2mm) wafer from a block of crystalline silicon. You then add some electrodes, cover it in protective glass, and leave it in a sunny area to generate electricity through the photovoltaic effect. There are two problems with this approach: Much in the same way that sawdust is produced when you slice wood, almost half of the silicon block is wasted when it's cut into 200-micrometer slices; and second, the panels would still function just as well if they were thinner than 200 micrometers, but silicon is brittle and prone to cracking if it's too thin. Using a hydrogen ion particle accelerator, Twin Creeks has managed to create very thin (20-micrometer), flexible photovoltaic cells that can be produced for just 40 cents per watt; around half the cost of conventional solar cells, and a price point that encroaches on standard, mostly-hydrocarbon-derived grid power."
Get ready for....nothing! (Score:3, Insightful)
Man how many times have we seen these stories already - "cheap solar power discovery, will make solar pv affordable" but then years later nothing has changed.
It would be great if some of these things actually got productizd, I would set up solar pv all over my property if it was just a bit more cost effective...
Re:Hegemony, schmegemony (Score:5, Insightful)
Even with the losses, I always though hydrogen would be the way to go for excess energy stored up through the day. Of course, on a large scale, I wouldn't be using photovoltaics but perhaps some type of concentrator and steam electrolysis. Molten salt may also be a way to go at that level.
On a small level, how problematic would hydrogen be to store if used for things like heating a house? I realize it wouldn't power cars at its density level (natural gas already takes up too much space).
Another solution may be storing the energy as compressed air.
Selling the Shovels (Score:5, Insightful)
This is great stuff – an innovation that can benefit the whole industry. There are other companies that are working along similar lines, though with different technology. 1366 Technologies [1366tech.com] is one that comes to mind.
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, to use the common argument against drilling, if it will take more than just a few years to see the benefit, then why even bother with it?
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, we here many of these stories, and then years later nothing has changed... Other than the fact that the cost/watt of pv has continued to drop a significant percentage year after year after year. If that doesn't suit one's definition of progress, redefine "nothing has changed"...
(..), I would set up solar pv all over my property if it was just a bit more cost effective...
If I'm not mistaken, pv already is cost-effective if not cheaper than conventional energy sources in a variety of places, be it with a significant upfront investment (but with cost-effective = including that investment). Any progress in the cost/watt department will simply increase the # of places where it pays to put up solar panels.
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Oil gives the world 160 exajoules per year... (Score:5, Insightful)
is all I can think when I read these stories.
They don't make cells, they make machines (Score:5, Insightful)
Twin Creeks doesn't make solar cells. They make machines used for making the major component of the cells. They have production ready machines for sales right now. According to the Wall Street Journal article they are quite happy to sell the machines to Red China and the WSJ thinks that's who's going to buy most of them given they have the capital and they don't have irrational politicians that think "green" is a bad word. We could be making the cells here in the US. But that's not going to happen because it's more politically expedient to sell out the countries future for short term gains. The end result is this technology will create a few hundred jobs in the US to make the specialized machines. Most of the end products will be purchased by European and Asian customers who have a long term energy policy.
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Challenge the fossil fuel ..??? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, it's more than that. Mostly, solar energy is not concentrated. People are just spoiled by semiconductor integrated circuits. Photovoltaics have been steadily improving, but the fact is solar power is not very dense...actual sunlight is not a concentrated source of energy. There's only so many watts per square meter that fall, and the sun doesn't always shine. The only way to get real gains is to set out more solar panels. So there is going to be no "breakthrough" like there sometimes is with other technologies that are enabled by integrated circuits; even if somebody invents the absolute perfect solar cell that sucks up every uJ of energy that hits it.
People set their expectations based on technologies that are enabled by integrated circuits, but fail to realize that more fundamental technologies can't be doubled in speed or cut to 1/4 the cost just be printing more of them on the same amount of silicon.
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow. Really? I had absolutely no idea that most oil wells only lasted a year or two.
Look. I like the idea of Solar Panels, Wind Turbines, Tide Generators and the like. Where they work.
Where they do not I want coal or oil being used as cleanly and efficiently as possible.
But when greentards come around and blatantly spew out lies to make one technology seem better than another it angers me.
Solar has its good points. You do not have to fucking lie about shit to make it good.
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it also doesn't hurt that when the technology comes out you get the marketing number only.
Sure, the panels are 40c/W, but put them in a box, pay the employees and overhear and then they're $1/W. Install them with a conversion system and batteries and all of a sudden they're $3-$7 per Watt much like they've always really been. (And of course, that's peak, and the average cost it probably more like $10-$25 / Watt.)
Developments like these are positive, to be sure, but the cells themselves are only part of a pretty pricy equation. Even if this tech pans out, it probably won't end up reducing the price much more than 20%. Nice, but no where near the "half" that they like to tell you.
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:2, Insightful)
You can keep your solar cells. Up here in Minnesota where the average amount of sun per day is significantly less than 8 hours in the winter I'd prefer nuclear.
I've got the spot all picked out for my own personal traveling wave reactor.
Re:watts/sq. ft? (Score:4, Insightful)
Meh, the world isn't lacking in area that could be covered with solar panels.
Lol, the young and ignorant.
Here's a slight fact that you seem to forget... all this land you are referring to,
hosts some type of flora or fauna that the environmental groups will not allow
you to kill or modify the territory of.
And while I'm not at the height of tree hugging... stopping the use of fossil fuels
to remedy one issue by creating another one, isn't exactly the greatest of ideas.
Rooftops are the key, that is what this article is about. This company has devised
a cheaper method of production and at the same time, made a solar cell that is
flexible. That means more rooftop installs. More on the side of water storage tank
installs. Farmer Brown gets to make some money cause his corn silos have some
solar cells wrapped around them, and there's solar on his barn roof, etc.
The solution to fossil fuel independence, isn't killing indigenous plants and animals
to install large solar heaters. It is making each person grid independent. And to
get them off of fossil fuels by providing an at-home electrical solution.
-AI
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:1, Insightful)
Goody! I can have renewable energy, and all I have to do is make my fellow citizens pay for it!
Re:Get ready for....nothing! (Score:4, Insightful)
The great thing about hating the government is never having to think. In many situations such as this one, where society needs to navigate a large infrastructure change, the early adopters provide a public good so that it becomes possible to achieve a Libertarian price point in the fat lump of the adoption curve sooner rather than later. You can argue that I'm wrong in this case, but it requires two orders of magnitude more mental input than your original comment.
My father installed a 1st generation heat-pump technology in the early 1980s. It was hardly painless. Mostly worked pretty good, but some components were failing every 18 months, until design problems were identified and resolved.
And that's nothing compared to what we pay bankers to fail on our behalf. If my father got a subsidy, it went right back out the door on expected unexpected maintenance costs. The bankers sent their subsidies straight to Switzerland.