Scott Adams On the Difficulty of Building a 'Green' Home 482
An anonymous reader writes "Scott Adams built himself a new house with the goal of making it as 'green' as possible, and detailed his experience for those interested in following in his missteps. Quoting: '... So the architect — and later your building engineer, too — each asks you to sign a document saying you won't sue them when beavers eat a load-bearing wall and your entire family is crushed by forest debris. You make the mistake of mentioning this arrangement to your family, and they leave you. But you are not deterred because you're saving the planet, damn it. You'll get a new family. A greener one. Your next hurdle is the local planning commission. They like to approve things that are similar to things they've approved before. To do otherwise is to risk unemployment. And the neighbors don't want to live next to a house that looks like a compost pile. But let's say, for the sake of this fascinating story, that everyone in the planning commission is heavily medicated with medical marijuana and they approve your project over the objections of all of your neighbors, except for the beavers, who are suspiciously flexible. Now you need a contractor who is willing to risk his career to build this cutting-edge structure. Good luck with that.'"
George W Bush did (Score:5, Informative)
Seems the much maligned president owned, with little fanfare, a rather "green" home. Passive solar heating, natural cooling, geothermal energy, modest size, rainwater collection, nature preserve, all made for a model environmentalist domicile. (This in contrast to the fast talking "green" showman whose mansion burned 20x the national average.)
For all his complaints (Score:2, Informative)
Every single one of them would be just as much a problem if he were building a regular home. Or even buying one.
It is stressful. Unless you have enough money to just throw out a check and not worry, you're going to have problems.
From the roof to the foundation, and even in the ground. You won't know what's going to go wrong, but something will.
Re:It's an old quote... (Score:5, Informative)
"Pioneers usually end up with arrows in their backs"
That was pretty much his conclusion too. Among other amusing quotes:
In my defense, the price of your future photovoltaic system will never come down unless idiots like me pay too much today. You're welcome.
Re:LEED certification and Sick Building Syndrome (Score:3, Informative)
It's all about Living Well with Fewer Resources (Score:1, Informative)
This guy is off his rocker and mixes up "Sustainable Housing" with "Natural Building Materials" and overuse of PV panels.
Sustainable housing provides a way to live well without requiring lots of expensive resource use.
There are many styles of housing with many different construction methods to achieve the goal of Good Living with (Considerably) Less Reliance on Resources.
Resources are things like land, energy, water, construction materials, time, money. Good living means different things to different people - maybe a small modest house with no mortgage, maybe having time for family and friends, maybe living in an architectural masterpiece, maybe fitting in, or standing out.
For me good living always has a party now and then, when I have a big fire, leave the lights on, and rock out.
But most of the time, when I am not thinking, a sustainable house helps me live without need for extra heating or cooling energy, has less need for ongoing maintenance, and doesn't cost me that much.
The easiest way to use less resources is to have a beautiful small house that lasts a long time:
http://tinyhouseblog.com/
http://smalllivingjournal.com/
Beauty can come from use of recycled or natural materials.
Straw: http://www.thelaststrawblog.org/2009/08/bit-bale-walls/
Earth: http://www.shac.org.nz/group/whareuku
And may have wavy lines, and be built slowly and experimentally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthship
Or may be slick and modern:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/07/tiny-home-lives-large/1
Or might be built offsite
http://www.fabprefab.com/fabfiles/fablisthome.htm
And in most cases, sustainable living will mean remodeling existing buildings, and encouraging higher density living - next to friends and culture.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2010/08/03/clip-on-plant-room-adds-green-space-to-apartment-buildings/
Living more sustainably gives me freedom to innovate, and has nothing to do with forcing me to live in a log, as the author seems to think - at least until that idea strikes my fancy.
-Tim
timbAtclaire.org
Re:who cares (Score:3, Informative)
I'd say it is as humorous as recent Dilberts. That is, very boring.
Besides, his assumptions are utterly idiotic. For example windows are not that bad energy losers (U < 0.8 are available easily). If you have photovoltaics the colour of the roof hardly matters. Insulation costs next to nothing, unless you want to use more expensive ones (to keep it thin). Etc, see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-energy_house [wikipedia.org]
Re:George W Bush did (Score:5, Informative)
(This in contrast to the fast talking "green" showman whose mansion burned 20x the national average.)
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp [snopes.com]
Re:George W Bush did (Score:5, Informative)
I've had a geothermal heatpump for almost 10 years. My parents for even longer. They are great, especially in harsh heating climates. We live near Pittsburgh, and they have proved quite affordable. Local contractors have really just started installing them...I had to really look around to find an installer. Most HVAC guys don't want to have to mess with a well-drilling sub and a maybe a backhoe sub to trench from the wells to the house. It is a lot more work, compared to an air-source unit...and far messier! Install an air-source unit, you will get a few holes in your foundation for coolant lines and power to the compressor unit...and then the normal ductwork, air handler inside and the air-source unit sitting outside on a drop-down concrete pad. If the ductwork is in place, it is a 1-2 day job.
With geothermal, (if it is done right) you will have a dozen or more holes in your foundation for the in/out of the loops from each well into a manifold in the basement. You WANT that manifold in case one of the wells dies. You will have trenches from the foundation to the wells...and the wells need to be 10-15 feet apart, so some significant part of your yard will look like hell. Mine took about two weeks to complete because the well driller broke down on the fourth well. And the backhoe operator came *this* close to putting the bucket through my foundation wall. It is a monstrous headache to do a retrofit install, but for new construction, it would be a bit easier. In any case, the cost for the loop install can be a back-breaker. The geothermal units themselves are IMO overpriced too, due to lower production volumes.
Its about Resource Use, not Style (Score:2, Informative)
This guy is off his rocker and mixes up "Sustainable Housing" with "Natural Building Materials" and overuse of PV panels.
Sustainable housing provides a way to live well without requiring lots of expensive resource use.
There are many styles of housing with many different construction methods to achieve the goal of Good Living with (Considerably) Less Reliance on Resources.
Resources are things like land, energy, water, construction materials, time, money. Good living means different things to different people - maybe a small modest house with no mortgage, maybe having time for family and friends, maybe living in an architectural masterpiece, maybe fitting in, or standing out.
For me good living always has a party now and then, when I have a big fire, leave the lights on, and rock out.
But most of the time, when I am not thinking, a sustainable house helps me live with need for extra heating or cooling energy, has less need for ongoing maintenance, and doesn't cost me that much.
The easiest way to use less resources is to have a beautiful small house that lasts a long time:
http://goldenbayhideaway.co.nz/abodes/little_greenie [goldenbayhideaway.co.nz]
http://tinyhouseblog.com/ [tinyhouseblog.com]
http://smalllivingjournal.com/ [smalllivingjournal.com]
Beauty can come from use of recycled or natural materials.
Straw: http://www.thelaststrawblog.org/2009/08/bit-bale-walls/ [thelaststrawblog.org]
Earth: http://www.shac.org.nz/group/whareuku [shac.org.nz]
And may have wavy lines, and be built slowly and experimentally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthship [wikipedia.org]
Or may be slick and modern:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/07/tiny-home-lives-large/1 [usatoday.com]
Or might be built offsite
http://www.fabprefab.com/fabfiles/fablisthome.htm [fabprefab.com]
And in most cases, sustainable living will mean remodeling existing buildings, and encouraging higher density living - next to friends and culture.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2010/08/03/clip-on-plant-room-adds-green-space-to-apartment-buildings/ [inhabitat.com]
Living more sustainably gives me freedom to innovate, and has nothing to do with forcing me to live in a log, as the author seems to think - at least until that idea strikes my fancy.
-Tim
I recently met the guy who heads the BAC's online Sustainable Design course. It seems good. http://www.the-bac.edu/x350.xml [the-bac.edu]
Re:Modular (Score:4, Informative)
They should build green modular homes and deliver them all over the country.
I think this was the idea behind Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion house [wikipedia.org]
Frankly taking ANY risk is hard! (Score:5, Informative)
I did some work on my home - added a second story etc. while living in it - an adventure for sure! I learned some things. For one my contractor was a good ole boy who was so honest it wasn't funny. He did it ALL without a signed contract and he stuck to his original price despite having to wait a YEAR to begin! It took a year to get permits and to get the damned architect to properly do the plans, we waited on weather some too. Jackass architect drew in 2X4 walls and not 2X6, not noticed by me till they were banging nails - grr. The first few sets of plans were a joke and the very first time my contractor caught a GLARING error before he even got out of their office. The architect hated my contractor but my contractor knew how to build and was catching all sorts of errors. Thankfully he worked around the ones in the final plans just fine.
So, I wanted to do some odd things my guy hadn't seen before. For starters I had a specific toilet in mind. You know, a low flow toilet that WORKS! Toto Drake for those wondering - just wish it had more water in the bowl so keep a brush handy. He thought it was silly to want a specific toilet and darn it the thing cost MORE. Wow, it works he finds out. Guess who now has two in HIS home :-) I wanted "solar tubes". What in the world are those he wonders. Well the guy puts them in and wow, lots of LIGHT from outside. My contractor thinks this is pretty cool - don't think he's bought any yet. I wanted a tin roof. Now he's seen these and he's had them done. I had a good quote from a guy but when the guy came out to look over the job he made the cardinal sin of ignoring my contractor - this pissed him off. My contractor got his buddy on the phone and shaved multiple thousands of dollars off the price just to spite this jerk - likely burned a favor. Took the guys maybe two hours to put up that roof too. Rolls off the reel through an extruder and up go the panels onto the roof. I wanted spray foam insulation too. Why would I want that? Well the downstairs leaked like a sieve and I wanted it quiet. Research I found said to spray it under the roof decking and make the attic a controlled space. Contractor and roofing guy not happy, insulation guy not so sure. Govt. studies say this saves money bigtime but if the roof decking gets too hot and fries I'm out big bux. Never mind that Govt study was partially conducted in Florida. I relent but I still have the stuff in my walls and attic - it rocks! My contractor also does Tyvek wrap, rigid foam with foil, and the insulator guys sealed every nook with caulk too. End result is awesome but pricey. Insulator says they never do this in homes but in businesses all the time. A/C and heating guy nearly passed out when I told him what we had for insulation - my heat pump doesn't have to work at all but is sized for efficiency. Tankless hot water heater and softener system. Why would I do that? Well endless hot water for the big tub I had installed and the efficiency is off the chart compared to the previous somewhat new water heater. Literally - the two charts don't overlap the new one is so good! I wanted good windows - Pella is what I chose. All sorts of coatings and stuff. I had gotten a ballpark at a homeshow on price. Pella only sells through regional dealers if you buy their good stuff - price is sky high. My contractor is NOT happy and talks them down a couple hundred per window. Love this guy! I get a seriously good attic trap door with insulation and gasketed seals - everyone thinks I'm nuts till that sucker goes up and seals like a drum. I wanted good temp compensating shower fixtures - I buy them online for way less than local. Plumber freaks at the puzzle he has to build to plumb it. I use a local tile and granite guy instead of a big box store or boutique bath place. I save TONS and the guy is very happy to have my business - I've been back for more stuff twice.
So in the end I saved a bunch and obviously went over budget. Every single time I wanted to do something "odd" I got questioned and quizzed. If you aren't
Re:who cares (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What does "green" mean? (Score:1, Informative)
Dilbert -- er, I mean, Scott Adams -- pointed that out in his article, where he noted that the greenest thing to do was not to build at all.
Re:George W Bush did (Score:5, Informative)
I love the "mitigating factors" such as "the gore home is four times the size of an average home." As if... To be greener, we should all get bigger homes? Brilliant!
How about quoting the rest of that sentence: "it's about four times larger than the average new American home built in 2006, and it essentially functions as both a residence and a business office since both Al and Tipper work out of their home." And by business office, that means an office with staff. They could get a smaller home and outside office spaces, but that would use more energy (plus the energy required to get to/from work).
Re:who cares (Score:4, Informative)
For example windows are not that bad energy losers
I beg to differ. If you are looking for enery loss guidelines, the rule of thumb is the best window is the same as the worst wall.
Insulation costs next to nothing
Really? Ever try and make an R40 roof or R20 wall? Not ridiculous, but not nothing either.
Re:who cares (Score:5, Informative)
Your average 1200 sq ft bungalow needs 6880 square feet of r20 insulation (a little less since you can take stud width out, but you usually leave that in and just come up a few bags over)
That means properly insulated, r40 roof, r40 floor and r20 walls. Average bag of insulation should be around $35 CAD or $30 USD and does about 50 square feet on the average(usually a bit less, and the reason you leave in the stud widths if using regular lumber). So in total you need about 138 bags of insulation to do it right. Grand total cost is around 5k CAD or a bit less USD and you'll save enough in AC/Heat in the first 3 years in most places to be in money from doing it, so any argument about up front capital cost is moot as average time spent in a purchased home before selling is well over 3 years, at least in Canada. Especially when you consider average house cost is over 100k(a lot over 100k in some cases), even for that modest bungalow. 5k isn't much to tack on when theres already 100k going into the place.
Thats not including your basement if it exists but a good vapour barrier and 2 layers of R7 1.5 inch styro around all of the interior cement, a good water barrier on the outside and a good sealer and sub floor on the cement floor will remove the r40 floor as a necessity(probably still want to do r20 just for sound reasons, at least, I know I would) and cover the insulation needs the same. Shit, an uninsulated basement is probably the #1 cause of overpaying on heat bills, again, in canada, but I can't imagine its much different south of the border. I've had people cut their heat bills in half with just the double styro insulation around the cement.
Comment removed (Score:2, Informative)
Re:George W Bush did (Score:4, Informative)
I don't see anything wrong with that but it obviously means the environment is not as important to him as Bush, who also has staff but a much smaller home that is far more efficient.
Bush just bought an 8500 sqft [dallasnews.com] Dallas mansion within a two hour drive from the Crawford ranch. Methinks he has plenty of room now.
Re:Which unsound policies? Worse than now? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:who cares (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, A guy who actually has DONE it is probably far less informed than random people on the internet quoting numbers.
PS. Ever own a house? Sure, my double-pane windows rock ... the casings, on the other hand, leak like a sieve.
Actually, he was less informed. Take that from someone who has done all sorts of construction. The fact that he has missteps and made bad choices does not mean it's not doable, nor does it mean it's not economically feasible. As some for instances, there are various utility companies who will not pay money for power generated. You still get a bill for what you use though. Oh, wait, that's not legal. Yep! Ask BGE why, they tell you that though it is the law that they have to buy power from you, that there is no law yet that tells them how they are supposed to do it. Until then, they aren't paying anyone (at least not as of the last time I checked - by now, enough people may have made a stink to force them to follow the law). Our friend just had an installation done that cost him $6000 after rebates (because it was done right), and we've started on ours. Much of the time, he's selling back to the electric company (which our current one, fortunately, does properly buy power back and credit you for it).
Take the insulation... there are tons of new insulation, lab tested, R value and all, all eco-friendly - oops, guess he simply made a bad choice there too. Take the solar. Oddly, most people who install them get enough rebates that the system can be paid for in 5 years... not 15. Of course, if one does it wrong, there are a lot less rebates (or none). The system has to be able to generate a certain amount of electricity during each season - if not (because you stuck it under trees, in the shade, or facing the wrong direction), then you aren't eligible for a lot of (or any) rebates. Take his other suggestions (stone walls... btw, they work great on the outside too... no reason to have a living room with a stone wall), thick slab foundation, and so on... duh! Sounds like he forgot those and realized them as an "ooops, here's what you should consider which would have made things better for us had we considered it"
Should I go on? Also, green homes do not need to be ugly. Wanna know how you can cut costs? Get good appliances. And no, I dont mean the top of the line "crap" sold at your local appliance store (Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, wherever). They make full size refrigerators that use 200W - NOT 1200W. Similar (electricity) savings can be found on other appliances as well. Ensure you have entirely LED or CFL lighting. Once you are done, during spring and summer, how much electricity is it to run a house? Let's see... 200-300W for the fridge, 20 lights at 3W is another 60W, plus the incidentals. During summer, use cooling from a heat/cooling pump (pumps coolant into a ground chamber, comes out at 55 degrees or so... inotherwords, ideal to drop the house temperature to something nice - or to something cool with AC using a LOT less electricity). In the winter, the same can be done to "warm" the water before it's used to heat the house. Things like floor heating, when not needed, can simply be a flow valve away from being removed from the loop - and since the lines are filled with "antifreeze" (a chemical like it), no worries about it freezing and busting a pipe (c'mon, this flow valve idea is common sense - people use stuff like that all the time for lawn sprinklers that have multi-zones, for ponds and fish pools and more). As for the lawn, one can use runoff, if one builds a cistern or some other containment. People are already doing that, and collecting enough in most areas like his, to water a full lawn, and have water extra for toilets, and an overflow for when it gets too full.
Well, I could keep going on and on. Honestly, he made mistakes (BIG ones), read the wrong magazines/websites, and is complaining (whining?) about it now.
Re:You mean like these scientists? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:who cares (Score:4, Informative)
These houses basically - and readilly (with installed solar systems including Photovoltaic and Solar Hot Water, achieve a "Net Zero" energy requirement: In the span of one year on average, and all within their property envelope (urban settings too) they produce an amount of energy equal to, or more than ("Net Positive"), the energy they consume. That also requires choosing energy efficent appliances (fridges can be power hogs otherwise) that consume low Killowat hours of energy. LED lights are excellent. induction cookers [wikipedia.org] as well. The key thing on Passivhaus design is that the house has a very high R-value all round (walls can be a foot thick of insulation and roofs are R 80) and the house must be air-sealed to a specific blower door pressure test stardard.
Passivhauses do not have to look like bunkers or lunar outposts by necessity. The Mill Creek [greenedmonton.ca] Net Zero home in Alberta is one pleasing example, or this example [greenbuildingadvisor.com] in Salem, Oregon. Because the houses are so well sealed (in contrast to regular built houses that leak air badly), air exchangers are a necessity and key to having fresh air. One of the benefits of a passivhaus is that the air is extremely fresh. To save conserve space heating energy heat recovery ventillators are used. Some heat recovery ventillators can be anywhere from 95 to 99% efficient [paul-lueftung.net]. In some cases - even in cold climates, the passivhaus standard built house actually doesn't need an auxilliary heating system, but the City officials can get a little freaked out and demand one anyway. Germany has many of these houses. Passivhauses can also work in hot climates [greenbuildingadvisor.com] as well.
Re:LEED certification and Sick Building Syndrome (Score:3, Informative)
Anecdotes are fun. I have a friend in Fairbanks (a poet) who built a cabin, quite literally, with his own two hands. The doors, triple-pane windows, everything are hand-built. His two-story cabin (probably 600 sf total) warms in about 30 minutes once his wood stove is started. He collects 4 cords or wood each summer, and every third or fourth year he has enough left over that he doesn't need to collect that one year. It's an amazingly tight place. (He once bragged that his 6-candle candelabra keeps the place comfortable at -30F.)
Like your Finnish homeowner, my friend has very thick doors, with tight wool gaskets to match. The roof is about R-60 in the summer, and because the snow doesn't melt on top, gets much more insulating in the winter. No water and an outhouse make the cabin somewhat too rugged for more conventional folks to raise kids in, though.
. . . I don't think that I know anybody with a "greener" house than his, though.
Re:who cares (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Going white? (Score:3, Informative)
That is only irony if you are mentally retarded.
Re:who cares (Score:3, Informative)
You have very badly insulated walls. the best windows on the market are triple pane with about U=0.5, the best double-panes are 0.8 or 0.9. a badly insulated wall starts at max U=0.6 (I think the building-standard(in Belgium) calls for U=0.35 walls) [LOWER is BETTER]
[I think U = the # watts lost per hour per degree difference in Kelvin]
Re:George W Bush did (Score:3, Informative)
Come again?
There is nothing harsh about Pittsburgh's climate.
the lowest average low is in January at a whopping -6.72 C.
with a record low of only -24.
I've spent over a week at -49 with wind, and not just in a single year.
Pittsburgh is t-shirt weather.
Geothermals actually don't do that well in "harsh" climates.
my neighbour growing up, and a good friend of the family, installed geothermal a few years ago. it's not bad, but his place isn't exactly comfortable in the winter. Used in conjunction with his other heating, I believe it helps reduce the cost there, but on its own it can't stand up.
Look, he isn't just talking about MAX/MIN temperatures. Pennsylvania, as an example is the exception to most weather 'trends. Pennsylvania has extreme weather in the sense that in a given year we will see some pretty bad (not the worst) cases of all weather conditions.
But Montana gets colder you say. Yes, it very well does. However it also tends to stay cold. In PA you will have it freeze at night, thaw during the day. Maybe it will freeze and thaw several dozen times in the span where a colder climate will see a single deep freeze, or a warmer climate will generally remain cool, but above freezing. I'm just dealing with the cold side here, but there is a reason why PA's roads are almost universally understood to be the worst in the country, and it isn't due to lack of maintenance.
The climate itself is not even close to the most extreme, but it IS one of the most harsh.
I've conducted HALT (highly accelerated life testing) and survivability/reliability tests on systems, and it isn't the 90C or the -100C temperatures that worry me. It's when my system is subjected to rapid fluctuations of temperature within its operational band. It's even possible to use similar tests to weed out infant mortality in production runs. Temperature fluctuations stress solder joints, chips, as well as mechanical links, hoses, etc.
Again, you 'win'. Your climate is very extreme. But in general, if something can operate in Pennsylvania and do so reliably then it's probably a fairly robust system. Such a system won't always be the best for other climates, but there is a high probability that it would 'work' if you added a few precautions (high temp protection for Tucson, low temp considerations for Fargo).
And don't even get me started on the road treatments in PA and NY which devour cars. I'm in the process of using power tools to remove rust damage from my 2005 vehicle.
Ingrediants for a greener home: (Score:2, Informative)
1. Buy the archive of the back issues of Mother Earth News. Not all the ideas are practical, but many are, and the rest can lead to further ideas.
2. Smaller is greener.
3. If you are innovating in construction technique, build so that it can be modified.
* Build in access to pipes.
* Wire in conduits.
* Extra conduits so you can network, or put in 12v DC, or whatever later.
* Attic access for later addition of fans.
* Power outlets in the attic.
* Steep pitched roof so that most of your attic access is not on your hands and knees.
* Use screws whereever you think you MIGHT want to change things.
4. Zone your heating/cooling system.
5. Do your best calculation for heating needs -- then put in a unit half that size. But leave room to add a second one later. This will give you redundancy, at some increase in expense.
HVAC people seem to overestimate heating and underestimate ventilation. Put in bigger exhaust fans than they tell you.
6. If you are in a net heating environment, design your house to have most of the windows on the south.
7. In our climate (10000 degree days, central Alberta) a dual glazed south facing window has better net performance than triple glazing.
8. Don't bother with argon/krypton. The gas is gone in 5 years.
9. In a well made window, a sizeable amount of the heat loss is on the edges. Use fewer but larger units.
10. If you are building a single floor house in a heating climate, considering building it partially underground. I've seen houses that were essentially walkout basements.
11. The most energy efficient shape for a two story house is a butter cube, oriented east west.
12. Conifers on side to the prevailing winter wind makes your house use a lot less heating, and makes your gardening less problematic.