The Ignominious Fall of Dell 604
snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Bill Snyder discusses the ignominious decline of Dell, one akin to that of Computer Associates, leaving the company forever tainted by scandal and a 'shocking breach of faith with customers.' Dell's pioneering business model and supply chain helped make desktop computing ubiquitous, affordable, and secure. But years of awful quality control and customer service have finally caught up to the company in a very public way that will do irreparable damage to the company for years to come. 'What we've learned about Dell recently doesn't qualify as an understandable mistake. Only a rotten company sells defective computers and lies about it.'"
And you're surprised? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Hyperbole much? (Score:3, Interesting)
Does anyone here care to name a PC manufacturer with a spotless record of turning out nothing but quality, or who has always been 100% up front about dealing with legitimate manufacturing problems?
I built a linux firewall out of a cardboard box, spare parts, and duct tape. The power switch was literally duct-taped to a hole I made in the side. It was pushed a grand total of three times during it's illustrious career. After configuring it and setting it to auto-update with Debian, it was left there unattended for about six years before it was finally decommissioned, still working. I wrote on the side of it "Hillbilly Deluxe Firewall".
If Dell can't make working computers using brand new equipment, an assembly line, trucks, workers, and a working budget bigger than "a can of Dew and some leftover chinese" like I did, I don't really think they have an excuse.
My company builds stuff in China (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone who outsources manufacturing of any kind has faced this problem. Component suppliers provide defective parts to factories, and when the first parts that contain a defect not seen before arrive, incoming QC hasn't seen the defect yet and so might not test for it. The parts are then used, and if the defect allows the product to pass inspections and burn in, you now have your supply chain infected with product containing the bad part. The consequences of the bad part range from outright consumer danger (e.g. exploding batteries), to shortened product life resulting in expensive warranty repairs and a damaged brand reputation, to very little impact resulting in just a few consumers experiencing annoying problems.
Once you learn of the bad part and the consequences, you're like the CDC (center for disease control). You have to find out how bad the outbreak is, what the return rate is, how much of the supply chain is infected, what the consequences of the failure are, and then decide what should be done about it.
If the failure rate is below, say, 10% and the consequences non-life-threatening, you will likely do nothing and deal with it in the repair channels, and make a running change to your incoming QC processes and manufacturing lines. If there is extreme personal risk you might have to do a recall, and you probably have to suspend your entire supply chain until the root cause is found and everything from raw materials to subassemblies to product in transit to store inventories to consumer's products is fixed.
In this case, Michael Dell was more than likely in the CDC meeting, and data was probably presented that pointed to the fact that a recall wasn't necessary. However, it looks worse than that, and Dell is being painted as a greedy tyrant who shipped bad parts knowing full well he did so.
I guarantee this is NOT the whole story, and there was some serious gray area involved at Dell as to what to do about this issue. More than likely, this was a calculated risk that the problem would not turn out as big as it is.
Bloatware (Score:4, Interesting)
Being the family computer nerd I would just wipe out any new Dell coming into the family with a fresh copy of the OS.
The second thing that did it for me was the quality reduction of support. 10 years ago Dell would go that extra mile and they were my standard recommendation for a PC. But then they went Indian with their support and calling in would start with a market survey and eventually end with a big negatory.
The first two were enough for me but the third was a bizarre drop in quality. Their machines were burning out and other oddities.
They might try and defend themselves saying that they needed to cut support costs and that without the additional revenue of the Norton AV subscriptions that they couldn't compete. But the reality is that their initial reputation was that buying a Dell was a safe bet. But as a nerd I have a reputation to manage and recommending Dells became a bad idea. Now I recommend a local computer shop that rocks.
Even then you don't know (Score:4, Interesting)
I've had lemons come from high end brands before. They were always promptly replaced, but doesn't change the fact that they were faulty.
Or, in the case of the whole capacitor deal which is what I imagine what this is about, ASUS and others like that got hit too. You could buy a top of the line motherboard and have the caps blow up. Again, they replaced it under warranty but I seem to recall Dell doing the same.
Products have problems, deal with it. If you own a line of products that have never had problems the reason is NOT the that products are perfect, but that you've been lucky. Shit happens. So long as the manufacturer replaces the broken part, what more do you want?
What is good then? (Score:3, Interesting)
Satisfaction is an abstraction, not a machine (Score:4, Interesting)
Some time in the nineties, it was reported that IBM ran an unusually high problem rate on a line of Thinkpads. The media attacked IBM for refusing to make any detailed remarks about the problem, or to establish a formal action plan. IBM's only comment was something to the effect, "IBM Thinkpad users have a high degree of satisfaction with their Thinkpad products. We remain committed, as always, to assuring that high degree of satisfaction."
Product failures, particularly computer failures, are a routine part of the landscape. All this hubbub about people losing data because of Dell's unreliable computers is dubious...responsible computer owners assure their own data protection. Only the irresponsible or ignorant rely on the manufacturer to do so, and always at their own peril.
A good computer company stands behind its products. When you have a problem, you call them and they promptly restore your satisfaction. The methods, economics and logistics of doing so may sometimes turn to the dark arts, but in the end, SATISFACTION best describes what a customer wants most.
Over the years, I've dealt with a lot of Dells, a lot of Dell problems, and a lot of Dell. And as ugly as this capacitor story now plays, I am still faced with the fact of my continued satisfaction with Dell as a company that has provided me with good value and satisfaction. I'm not lucky. Dell has done a good job of standing behind its products, and in my experience, continues to do so.
P.S. My only relationship to Dell is as a customer.
Re:Even then you don't know (Score:5, Interesting)
Thing with Dell is, they seem to go out of their way to blame your use of the product in cases like this. I dealt with the capacitor issue, and we ended up getting sent a stack of about 20 GX260 motherboards to replace ourselves (we were on a remote mine site and couldn't have a dell tech come out every time one died).
However, their handling of the E6500 and E6400 overheating and down-clocking problems has been appalling. They were sold as a high performance laptop, and dell's first question was what software I was running. I'm in an air conditioned office, using a "high end" laptop, it shouldn't fucking matter what software I am running. Despite sending through details of the mass problems people experienced on the internet, and listing the service tags of basically the entire first batch of E series machines we purchased, dell were "unable to replicate" the problem. I had to do a bunch of testing and send through snapshots of what i was seeing to get them to acknowledge that the problem even existed despite massive background info available from unhappy customers on the internet who were also ignored by Dell. Turns out there was a motherboard rev, hence they could not replicate on their newer machines.
Just recently we ordered about 10 more E6500s, all of which have constant network drop outs. The quality control really has gone to shit.
Let 'em fail (Score:4, Interesting)
The computers, that is. They are cheap and easy to fix.
I have my company running on refurbished GX260, GX270 and GX280 models. I have the occasional fan failure, but no motherboard failures with PCs that are on 24x5, and some 24x7 out on the factory floor. If it fails, I put the HD into another one. We paid $200 each, or less. I got 'em stacked up in the corner like cord wood. Easy to fix, easy to swap parts. I can put a HD into any of the 3 models since they share a common chipset and XP runs just fine.
P4-2.4GHz or faster, 2GB RAM...pretty much all a normal business user needs.
Re:Oh My... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lousy service (Score:4, Interesting)
None of these companies hire rocket scientists for tech support. You couldn't afford the machines if they did.
I'd be willing to pay a bit more for access to a clueful support staff of native English speakers that don't insist on following a script, but actually listen to what troubleshooting I've already done and go from there.
That's why I buy Macs. The last time I had to call Apple support a couple years ago, the tech I spoke to was in Texas. He listened to what I had done to isolate the problem, agreed with my conclusion, and arranged a repair with no BS.
~Philly
Re:cough (Score:5, Interesting)
The biggest problem is that consumers don't read tech sites before purchasing, which means they are beholden to the whims of the tech company they are buying from. If they choose to deceive customers it will only become apparent when it's reported by large media organisations.
I think a bigger problem than that is information overload.
I work for a small business. I used to build custom computers in the 90s but haven't felt it's been worth it in a long time.
So what do I buy today for desktops? Dell? Lenovo? HP? Acer? something else?
If I settle on Dell, which models? Inspiron? Dimension? Vostro? Studio? etc. Each of those branches has DOZENS of configurations and differences.
Annoying.
Say what you will about Apple, but their products lines are much easier to grok.
Re:-shrug- (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Hyperbole much? (Score:3, Interesting)
Heh heh, that's hilarious... sounds like something I would do!!
I don't think the major brands have a "problem" with their stuff dying on schedule, because they figure it just adds sales churn since most people won't know what the PC died of anyway, and most don't brand-hop once they've got started with a given brand.
I say this because my observation is that the namebranders are *designed* to fail at about 3-4 years old, primarily due to chronically running too hot.
I have a high-end Dell sitting here that, as it came from the factory, routinely overheated due to the lack of proper heatsink, and no CPU fan (just the one at the end of the shroud). I replaced the stock cooler with an ordinary HSF, threw out the shroud, and its operating temperature dropped by 40F degrees -- yes, FORTY degrees. (So much for the claims of highly engineered airflow.)
And shortly after that, it died from bad capacitors.
I'd be more annoyed, but the machine was free due to first owner despairing of the cooling issues.
Re:cough (Score:4, Interesting)
Wait a second. It isn't like these iphone users chose knock off hardware and are now paying the price. The hardware was dictated by Apple and now the customers aren't getting critical security patches because Apple only wants to deal with their most current hardware configs? I would never buy Apple again if they did this to me... No fanboyism necessary.
ODM Fault? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Commerce IS deceit (Score:2, Interesting)
This is not an indication that it's OK. It's an indication that there's something rotten at the core.
And do you know what is also rotten at the core? The consumer. Before you mod me flamebait, consider this: The consumer drives the price down by buying the cheapest computer available. This causes a race to the bottom, where businesses cut as much cost as possible. You think that Dell is greedy, but many of the consumers are not contributing to a win-win deal. You pay for what you get, which is why Apple is generally a better brand.
So for fucks sake, quit putting all of the blame on the corporation. The consumers also play a role in scenario - and have contributed to the situation.
Re:cough (Score:3, Interesting)
It looks to me like thanks to lawsuits and public attention the market is indeed sorting out the problem. Look at the situation unfolding with the new iPhone. And the examples you cite are a perfect example of the market sorting out the problems.
A situation like we had with Microsoft is one that required government intervention. Certainly government involvement helped things along and likely helped prevent some real potential for problems But even then, over time the market helped sort that out too. Google and Apple's successes, for example, weren't due to the government's rulings on Microsoft but they clearly did bring about real competition.
Re:This is spot on... (Score:2, Interesting)
What summed Dell up for me was when we bought a lab of machines for CAD use... we naturally upgraded the video cards, but stayed with Optiplex's (our trusty line). When they arrived with the Dell flatscreen monitors we ordered, we noticed we couldn't plug DVI monitor cable into the video card. After several seconds, we realized that the ATI card has a proprietary ATI video connector... looks similar to DVI, but you need their adapter. The adapter is a Y cable which also allows you to use dual monitors.
I assume anyone reading this is up to speed with the issue at this point... DELL however, could not grasp this concept. After calling them, they sent us 32 DVI -> VGA converter cables which of course, didn't work. Calling our rep again, resulted in a different converter cable. A month passes. We still feel they are unable to grasp the issue at hand here. I take photos, google similar issues, send it off to them. Finally, the correct adapter arrives.
One would think this was an isolated incident, but I had the exact same issue 3 more times in the past two years. All with the same rep. I explain.... send the documentation.... and I still feel they can't grasp this. I too hang my head in shame when I tell people that we purchase Dell.
Re:Hyperbole much? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know the technical reasons (tho your explanation makes sense in the hot-running machines); I can only speculate based on what I see. I have read that some cheap PSUs are bad about producing voltage spikes, so that would seem consistent here too.
I've almost never seen a dead PSU or mobo in a clone, yet these are THE most commonly-dead parts in namebrand PCs (even in the better-vented, cooler-running models). I concluded that there's something going on here that involves the PSU and mobo. And yes, memory and CPU are nearly always alive even if the entire rest of the machine is dead. I've got a whole boxful of perfectly good RAM and CPUs pulled from otherwise-dead Dells.