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Dell To Leave China For India 352

Posted by timothy
from the in-these-troubled-economic-times dept.
halfEvilTech writes "India's Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, told the Indian press that Dell chairman Michael Dell assured him that Dell was moving $25 billion in factories from China to India. Original motives were cited for environmental concerns. But later details come up as to Dell wanting a 'safer environment conductive to enterprise.'"
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Dell To Leave China For India

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  • Wow (Score:2, Interesting)

    by FlyingBishop (1293238)

    If Dell can guarantee their parts are made in India and not China, I just might be getting a Dell next year.

    • Re:Wow (Score:4, Informative)

      by MrEricSir (398214) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:12PM (#31617716) Homepage

      Dude, you're not getting a Dell. Many of the internal parts WILL be made in China -- chips, circuit boards, etc. There's simply nowhere else that makes these things but China.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by bigmattana (646048)
        This is not true. Few of the chips are made in China. Circuit boards are likely to be made in Taiwan. Individual components on the boards besides chips are made in lots of countries. Dell used to assemble many of their machines in Austin, TX until recently.

        As with a car, most complex machines do have parts from all over the world. We are only stuck with no other option than China if we continue the current trend of giving all manufacturing to China. This can be reversed if you look at where the i
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by SomeJoel (1061138)

          This is not true. Few of the chips are made in China. Circuit boards are likely to be made in Taiwan.

          You may not realize this, but Taiwan is part of China.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            Only if the chinese really decide to invade.
          • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

            by C0vardeAn0nim0 (232451) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:33PM (#31618030) Journal

            taiwan is an autonomous, rebel, province of china. they don't answer to beijing. the only reason most conuntries don't recognize taiwan as independent is to avoid diplomatic tensions with beijing.

            if you hate mainland china's abuses, buy from taiwan. that's money that doesn't go to beijing spend in censorship.

            • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

              by the linux geek (799780) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:56PM (#31618340)
              No, the mainland is an autonomous, rebel area controlled by Communist bandits. Taiwan is the seat of the Chinese government.
              • Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)

                by stinerman (812158) <nathan,stine&gmail,com> on Thursday March 25, 2010 @09:04PM (#31620438) Homepage

                I could just as easily say that the six counties of Northern Ireland are controlled by Monarchist bandits and that the national capital of Northern Ireland is Dublin.

                Obviously we're talking about who has the monopoly of violence in the case of the ROC v. the PRC. For all intents and purposes they're separate countries, but if you want to play that game the Communists successfully overthrew the Nationalists quite a long time ago. It was a net negative for the people of China, but it is an accurate representation of the facts.

            • by KiloByte (825081)

              Actually, it's not Taiwan being a rebel province of China, it's the mainland who are rebels, who managed to hold almost all of the country.

            • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

              by 517714 (762276)
              A lot, possibly the majority, of items marked "Made in Taiwan" are simply transshipped from the mainland.
          • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Bearhouse (1034238) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:33PM (#31618032)

            Well, that's almost Flamebait..like saying 'Canada is part of the USA' IMHO

            Without rehashing all the history, the modern reality is that the (current) Taiwanese population would not consider themselves part of the Chinese Socio-Political system any more than the Tibetans would.

            • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

              by TheDarAve (513675)

              Well, that's almost Flamebait..like saying 'Canada is part of the USA' IMHO

              Its not? O_O So that's why they started asking for a passport this year...

            • Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)

              by rtfa-troll (1340807) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:43PM (#31618154)

              Wrong way round. It's like saying that "the USA is a rebel part of Canada". The only difference is that when you re-submit to Her Majesty's imperial rule your governance will actually improve.

              (Scotty: engage asbestos shields; divert all power from the main engine)

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Dave Emami (237460)

              Well, that's almost Flamebait..like saying 'Canada is part of the USA' IMHO

              Actually that's almost precisely equivalent to what they're saying.

              1. A power (the British crown/nationalist Chinese) controls an area of land (British territories in North America/mainland China plus outlying islands).
              2. That power is overthrown in that area, resulting in the rebels (pro-independence colonists/Maoists) controlling part of that territory (the 13 colonies/mainland China)
              3. ... while those loyal to the old regime (pro-crown colonists/nationalist Chinese) relocate to a portion of the old territory s
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by TheDarAve (513675)

            This is not true. Few of the chips are made in China. Circuit boards are likely to be made in Taiwan.

            You may not realize this, but Taiwan is part of China.

            You may not realize this, but Taiwan is NOT part of China. Taiwan follows the old government that existed prior to the "cultural revolution" that spawned the current Chinese Communist Party government.

            • Cultural revolution (Score:5, Informative)

              by sjbe (173966) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @06:33PM (#31618752)

              Taiwan follows the old government that existed prior to the "cultural revolution" that spawned the current Chinese Communist Party government.

              When you say cultural revolution [wikipedia.org] in the context of China, you are actually talking about a fairly specific event that occurred long after the civil war that resulted in the schism between Taiwan and mainland China. The Cultural Revolution occurred in the late 60s whereas the KMT's retreat to Taiwan occurred around 1950. The communist party in China preceded the cultural revolution.

          • Re:Wow (Score:4, Informative)

            by Wyatt Earp (1029) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:34PM (#31618042)

            No, Taiwan isn't part of the People's Republic of China.

          • by fliptout (9217)

            He didn't forget- they are not one country.

          • by sjbe (173966) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:40PM (#31618112)

            You may not realize this, but Taiwan is part of China.

            The truth of that statement depends very much on whom you ask [wikipedia.org]. As things stand Taiwan is de-facto an independent country. The People's Republic of China (mainland) maintain that Taiwan is a part of China, whereas the Republic of China (Taiwan) maintains that they are actually the legitimate government of China and that the PROC has no sovereign authority. However Taiwan has had to take great care to not antagonize the PROC due to the threat of invasion.

            In other words, it's complicated.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by Stormwatch (703920)
            Taiwan is the legit China. The other, bad one is "Red China".
      • by Applekid (993327)

        There's simply nowhere else that makes these things cheaply but China.

        There are still fab houses, PCB construction & assembly, etc in the West.

      • There's simply nowhere else that makes these things but China.

        Nowhere? As someone who has sourced items from numerous countries I can say with authority that you are quite mistaken. China is an excellent (if difficult) place to source things cheaply but it is hardly the only place to make things. There are places with cheaper labor (Vietnam), better engineering (Japan/Germany), comparable/better logistics (Singapore), and the list goes on. China is an important option but not even close to the only option.

        Remember too that the US has a $2.7 TRILLION manufacturing

    • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LWATCDR (28044) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:21PM (#31617838) Homepage Journal

      Wouldn't it be even better if it was built in Twin Falls Idaho or Austin TX?

  • Wrong! (Score:5, Informative)

    by WrongSizeGlass (838941) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:02PM (#31617596)
    Dell spokesperson denied the story this morning. Who's editing today, me?
  • doublespeak (Score:5, Insightful)

    by guyfawkes-11-5 (1583613) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:03PM (#31617608) Homepage
    a 'safer environment conductive to enterprise'
    Read as "safer from industrial espionage and nationalization"
  • If this is true, it is a decison vastly more consequential than anything Google has done.
  • It's a lose lose (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jollyreaper (513215) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:13PM (#31617728)

    So instead of American jobs being outsourced to one dirt-poor foreign country they'll be outsourced to another. Total significance to the American worker and the American customer -- nothing.

    • by Seor Jojoba (519752) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:22PM (#31617860) Homepage
      India is a democracy with a much better record of treating its citizens as free human beings. It also doesn't seem to have the taste for global imperialism that China does. In China, you can disappear for protesting on the street. In China, you put in an application if you'd like to move to another city. In China, the internet is filtered. India should be a great friend of the United States. Americans have a lot in common with them, and in that part of the world, America could use more friends.
    • by _Shad0w_ (127912)

      You know, Dell trades in countries besides the US. No matter where they manufacture the damn things they're probably going to be shipping them abroad to a large proportion of their customers anyway.

      I suspect it's only the base systems that are manufactured over there anyway, final configuration still takes place at the local level, I believe. At least I can't see Dell building a system to my spec in India or China and then shipping it over to me in the UK.

    • by ed.han (444783)
      because the plight of the american worker is the only metric by which one should evaluate anything?
  • by Khan (19367) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:15PM (#31617762)

    Oh wait, that was their Customer Service department. I wonder how that experiment went ;-)

  • Conductive? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ShadowRangerRIT (1301549) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:18PM (#31617786)
    Sure that wasn't "conducive"? I know Dell is an electronics manufacturer, but the company itself is likely non-conductive in the first place.
    • The only way to know for sure is to test with Michael Dell, a diesel generator, and some industrial sized electrodes.
    • Just a note: TFA actually uses the correct word. Is it so hard for submitters to actually copy and paste the correct words when they are directly quoting in the first place?
  • I know they would not do that citing cost and other crap. But I certainly would support any company moving production base from communist country to a democratic country. I know there are people here criticizing US, India and other democratic countries about certain draconian laws but these countries are much better than China.
  • pandemic? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bl8n8r (649187) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:26PM (#31617906)
    Wonder how many more US companies are going to pull out of China. First google, then godaddy, now Dell. What happens when all that China has left, is China?
    • by RobVB (1566105)

      What happens when all that China has left, is China?

      Then they'll have North Korea.

    • never happen. china has an infinite supply of workers ready to grind themselves into the ground to put $ on the pockets of execs back in the US. that's just too sweet a deal for US corporations to pass up.

      google and friends are pulling out for no other reason than it's costing them more to do business there than they are saving. don't kid yourself into thinking that they took some sort of moral high ground.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Shajenko42 (627901)
        Yes, but China has shown that it is quite willing to make a deal and break it, stealing whatever they can from companies that move there and giving it to their local competitors. That changes the dynamics a bit.
    • Re:pandemic? (Score:5, Informative)

      by smellsofbikes (890263) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:57PM (#31618370) Journal
      >Wonder how many more US companies are going to pull out of China. First google, then godaddy, now Dell. What happens when all that China has left, is China?

      My company did. We abandoned a brand-new billion dollar semiconductor fabrication facility. Officially it was because we didn't have enough work to fill it along with our several other (non-Chinese) fabs. Rumor says it was at least partly because we were tired of competing with ourselves and our fourth-shift output. However, it certainly wasn't anything to do with fear of nationalization or the unpleasantness surrounding that Australian Rio Tinto executive who was arrested and is currently being tried in China [speroforum.com] for (again, rumor has it) not bribing enough people, although I think that should be at least considered. Since the Rio Tinto trial was front-page Wall Street Journal news yesterday, I'm guessing that today a lot of people who make outsourcing decisions are thinking about it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:32PM (#31618010)

    India safer? In some ways I suppose but it depends on what you are talking about. The Indian government is less draconian and less likely to try to compete with you. Expropriation [wikipedia.org] is probably less of a concern in India. The rupee has somewhat better convertibility [wikipedia.org] than the yuan and currency flows are less stringently controlled. Plus there is a much larger contingent of English speakers than in China. India's legal system is slightly less hostile to foreigners than China's though both are to be avoided if possible. Freedom of speech is obviously better in India though China doesn't have quite the death grip on speech everyone here seems to think they do.

    On the other hand, India's infrastructure is badly trailing that of China, there is less foreign capital to improve things, corruption is a huge issue in India, business regulations are as bad if not worse than China, and transport costs are somewhat worse. Despite the number of engineers, India has less experience with certain types of manufacturing. India is a democracy (which is good) but that doesn't always make doing business there easier - in fact it often makes it harder due to populist policies.

    There has been something of a "gotta be in China" attitude but China isn't always the best place to make things. There are places with cheaper labor (Vietnam for instance) and places with better logistics (Singapore) and places with expertise silos (Japan) that might make better choices. Plus betting everything on China is risky by itself. Doing business in China is hard, risky, requires constant oversight, and a long term perspective. Anyone thinking they can just produce stuff cheaply in China with little difficulty is going to lose a lot of money very quickly.

    I've done global sourcing in both countries - it's difficult no matter which way you go. I've personally been in a factory in Chengdu where parts for Dell computers were being assembled. Moving production from China to India might be a good idea from a diversification standpoint (bad idea to do everything in China) but it's only marginally safer in my opinion depending on exactly what one means by safer.

  • by hoggoth (414195) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @05:45PM (#31618178) Journal

    It is my pleasure to be helping you today. I understand you are trying to move your factories from China to India. Just a moment and I will bring up your account. Ok I will look up moving your factories from China to India in our knowledge-base. Have you tried plugging in your factories?

  • How about (Score:5, Interesting)

    by koan (80826) on Thursday March 25, 2010 @06:06PM (#31618478)

    The USA, it's safer and conducive to enterprise, and with the economy in the pits a great time to negotiate with state governments, not to mention the karma factor Mr Dell.

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