Dell Defect Turning 2.2GHz CPU Into 100MHz CPU? 314
jtavares2 writes "In what is being dubbed Throttlegate, scores of users on many message boards have been complaining about nexplicably aggressive throttling policies on their Dell Latitude E6500 and E6400 laptops which cause their CPUs to be throttled to less than 5% of their theoretical maximums even while at room temperatures. In many cases, the issue can be triggered just by playing a video or performing some other trivial, but CPU intensive, task. After being banned [PDF] from the Dell Forums for revealing 'non-public information,' one user went so far as to write and publish a 59-page report [PDF] explaining and diagnosing the throttling problem in incredible detail. Dell seems to be silent on the issue, but many users are hoping for a formal recall."
The E-series has been craptastic all along (Score:5, Interesting)
I had a pre-release e-series machine from Dell on my desk last year. It's like they built the thing from the outside-in. Even on a 'release' E6500, Ubuntu seems to halt and die on full-screen video, Windows AHCI drivers that work everywhere else cause BSODs, and the power management firmware seems like it was written by a roomful of meth-addicted monkeys.
I've never been more disappointed with Dell as I was with the E6500. At least when the Optiplex GX260 power supplies all failed a few years ago, it was easy enough to fix them. These things are abhorrent.
Not the first time Dells have underperformed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The E-series has been craptastic all along (Score:3, Interesting)
SLOW!
Re:The E-series has been craptastic all along (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:OMG, I brought this up with them (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, great, except disabling SpeedStep kills battery life and otherwise sucks power.
I don't mind my laptop throttling itself when I'm not using it. My current Dell (XPS M1530) throttles itself to 800 mhz when it overheats because I'm doing something strenuous -- like, I don't know, Duke Nukem 3D.
Non-public information? (Score:5, Interesting)
Non-public information? How can such a thing exist on a commodity good that has already been released to the public, and especially when they are trying to cover up a defect which renders their product offering as fraudulent (because it doesn't work as advertised) and not fit for sale? Did they expect this to NOT blow up publicly when they ignored user complaints?
Re:Not the first time Dells have underperformed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:OMG, I brought this up with them (Score:1, Interesting)
It doesn't take particularly fancy code to peg a CPU at 100%. An ancient game without a framerate limiter could easily do it. Or if you're using DOSBox, the emulation overhead is rather large.
Re:lawyer: why wait? (Score:1, Interesting)
Wow. Dell even removed the PDFs.
Here we go again (Score:2, Interesting)
Recall when hell freezes over (Score:4, Interesting)
I use to own a Dell Inspiron 5150 that had to have a motherboard replaced out of warranty. (I've since given it to my wife as she is a lighter user and it'll probably last longer with her). The most likely cause is a known but never acknowledged issue where with normal use the case wears against a component on the motherboard severing it. It's not the first such issue I've heard of.
My current laptop is a Dell Inspiron 9400. I got it when they were giving away 3 years warranty for no extra cost. I'm so glad I did. I have had 2 hard disks replaced. (Issue finally fixed when I insisted on a different brand). I have had a hinge fixed after it broke (no misuse or abnormal use). I've had 2 screens replaced because they developed large dust bunnies behind the screen. I've had the CPU fan jam. It also has a habit of randomly taking 2 minutes to progress through the boot screen. No idea why. Dealing with warranty has been a hassle - worst experience was when they didn't show up for 3 appointments in a row. My wife or I had to be home to deal with it and then they wouldn't show up. The 3rd time they tried to arrange a technician that was 6 hours away at around 8pm. Well that wasn't going to work. But at least I didn't have to pay for parts for this machine. It's still my last Dell though.
Re:Ok, so Dell sucks. (Score:3, Interesting)
It really isn't that hard to build a PC yourself. That is the ONLY route I would go for a desktop. You should try it. The very fact that you read/post on /. makes you qualified.
Now, building a laptop yourself does not really buy you much. Yes, there are companies out there that sell a "bare-bones" laptop, but that really means that you get to decide how much RAM and what speed processor you want.
I have no real 1st hand experience (the last "laptop" that I purchased was an Acer netbook that I like), but Toshiba laptops tend to get great reviews (I loved the one that I had 10 years ago). Maybe you should start there.
Re:Many users are hoping for a formal recall (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:OMG, I brought this up with them (Score:5, Interesting)
Almost certainly. I doubt any of the modern laptops can run Core 2 Duo CPUs at full throttle without it going supernova. Laptops are just plain too thin to dissipate that much heat through mere air cooling of CPU heat sinks. The only reason we have laptops that come anywhere close to this level of performance is because the cores are going to be in an idle state 90% of the time and they can throttle the bajeezus out of them if they get too hot when you run them too hard for too long. That said, this report suggests two things:
Of these, the second one is the more significant problem.
Re:Bad Summary? (Score:3, Interesting)
I’m the guy who wrote the 59-page report on (Score:2, Interesting)
Even though I first started figuring this out 5 months ago (and others have been complaining about it online since late 2008) this is STILL an unresolved problem, at least for the E6500 (I don’t have an E6400 I can test with).
New information since my report:
1. Not only is the CPU deliberately throttled, but if it’s warm enough, even the GPU is severely throttled (for the E6500 systems that have the optional discrete NVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M - I don’t have an integrated Intel graphics model to test).
2. It’s definitely a BIOS issue – if they would just unhoark the ACPI code that (secretly) cripples the system so easily, it would save incalculable frustration (and resentment) among Dell’s users.
3. I’ve been relentlessly trying to work with Dell to get this fixed. No dice so far. I’m currently working with a Team Lead at Dell’s Round Rock, TX “Resolution Expert Center” (REC). I had to go through 2 of their staff before I even got someone who understood the problem (they weren’t very “expert”). Before that, I probably talked to about 15 various tech support folks before they would even escalate to the REC.
Nailing this thing down and trying to get it fixed has been an epic journey so far. It’s fascinating to me how far Dell has fallen (that’s part of why I’m so interested in following up on this). I used to be a huge Dell fan back in the day when they kicked butt. These days they’ve lost their way. They continue to lose market share (they’ve given up their #2 spot in worldwide PC sales to Acer recently, having already given up the #1 spot to HP). Meanwhile they’re selling corporate-class desktop-replacement “performance” laptops that will deliberately and secretly cripple themselves into utter uselessness at warmish room temperatures. And they can’t/won’t fix the problem even months after it’s pointed out to them in excruciating clinical detail. No wonder they’re losing their core business. Instead they idly ponder selling mobile phones in China. Sheesh.
Here's a couple snippets from recent communication with my contact at Dell:
“I'd like draw your attention to how Dell portrays this system in its
printed catalog: "pure business performance designed for the most
demanding applications" (p. 27, October 2009, key code 65051).
I'm not sure whether the same verbiage was used back when I bought the
system last year, but it was clear that this was not a "budget" model - it
was the new, top-of-the-line dockable executive desktop replacement system
with a price tag of about $2000 including the dock. I still hold the
conviction that a "performance" system "designed for the most demanding
applications" should not ever cripple its own processing power within its
specified operating environment (and in particular should not do so
secretly). But can we at least get to the point where it throttles the
same way docked as it does undocked and sitting on a table?”
“In my last two positions in IT management, going back to 1995, Dell was
pretty much all I would buy and I was a big fan. I always gave my bosses
dockable Dell laptops. But if I was an IT manager and found out that my
boss's $2000 executive performance laptop slowed to a crawl when he tried
to work from his porch at home, and I went through the long hours of
tracking this well-hidden problem down only to discover that Dell was
doing this on purpose and, effectively, in secret, you can be damn sure I
would never make the mistake of buying a Dell laptop again and I would
look with a wary sideways glance at any other Dell system as well.
Honestly.”
We're investigating (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Many users are hoping for a formal recall (Score:2, Interesting)