Engadget has snagged some of the details behind a bunch of multi-touch mouse prototypes from Microsoft Research. The prototypes range from the wacky to the extreme, but at least they are thinking outside the mouse trap. "Each one uses a different touch detection method, and at first glance all five seem to fly in the face of regular ergonomics. The craziest two are probably "Arty," which has two articulated arms to cradle your thumb and index finger, with each pad housing its own optical sensor for mission-critical pinching gestures, and "Side Mouse" which is button free and actually detects finger touches in the table immediately in front of the palm rest. Of course, there's plenty of crazy in the FTIR, Orb Mouse and Cap Mouse (pictured), which rely on an internal camera, orb-housed IR camera and capacitive detection, respectively. Of course, there's no word on when these might actually see the light of day"
The game they demo the second mouse with in the video appears to be cube [cubeengine.com]. I suppose they used it because they had access to the source code and could modify it for multitouch interaction.
Oh, I am sure that everybody at Microsoft has access to all the code they have ever produced, including every single game produced by completely different companies (at the time).
They probably have an open share drive, with every piece of code ever made, from gorilla.bas to Windows 8.
Frankly multi-touch is really needed to help modernize the mouse. As somebody who uses a Macbook Pro at work I can honestly say it is the first trackpad I have ever used that doesn't make me not long for a mouse. In fact I would say with the exception of gaming I actually prefer the trackpad and its many gestures. The amount of things that can be done is both more intuitive and more elegant than simply strapping more buttons on a mouse. Now obviously multi-touch only works well if its implementation is great, so only time will tell. Thankfully it seems many companies are involved in this effort, so we don't have to only rely on MS "innovation"
Agreed, my pointer finger and thumb hurt watching most of those demo's. If it doesn't have a tactile response, which none of them appeared to, no thanks. Just thinking about how much fun it is tapping the tip of your finger against the a hard unyielding surface for hours of the day... ugh. It seems to me that even the slight spring in the clicking of your mouse probably helps cushion your finger tap and help protect your joints by taking some of the energy out of the motion and not just sending it all back up your finger.
Funny you should mention that, since Microsoft already sold the ultimate pointing device: the Trackball Explorer [google.co.uk]. Now out of production, and edging towards $200 per unit on eBay.
I don't know about the idea of a multi-touch mouse though. I'd rather have a screen to interact with. A mouse design would denote having a cursor and resting your fingers somewhere that is not detected as a press. If there's nowhere to rest your fingers, you spend a large portion of your time using said mouse with your fingers in the air with no tactile response. It would also seem to me to be a "looser" grip on the mouse making it less "natural" as a pointing device.
Gestures aren't only for "multi-touch". I've been using windows software called "Stroke-it" for years. It allows for mouse gestures to be any kind of input you'd like. It's easy to program and even easier to use. Most of the stock gestures are intuitive, and you can record any gesture you can make with the mouse. While it lacks a certain amount of refinement that multi-touch (can) provide(s), it's still a vast improvement for the stand mouse UI.
On the other hand, I loathe multi-touch anything, and dislike memorising and making inane "gestures" on the surface, especially since they require me to twist and orient my hand into weird contortions, and it's highly unusuable in many positions I prefer to use a laptop. Like for exqample, having it on my lap with my feet propped on the desk.
"More buttons" isn't necessarily the solution either. I've had mice with tons of buttons but never have I used more than left, right, and the scroll wheel. Having tried the others and gaining nothing from the experience I'm really forced to wonder why we feel the need to "innovate" or otherwise alter a perfectly usable paradigm -- the two-button, scroll-wheel mouse.
Unless and until our style of interacting with computers changes in a very fundamental way, it seems to be just a complete waste of time, with a few people adopting the "new" methods, but most going back to the reliable, simple mouse -- because it works.
I was being charitable. Not really all that many people were tortured by Win 1 & 2. As for MS-BOB, well it has provided so much entertainment over the years that I think it must have paid for it's sins by now.
Don't get me wrong, BOB was a terrible idea, badly implemented, but it did set a new high water mark for BAD software, and will continue to be the butt of jokes long after you and are long gone.
Personally, I hold the mouse with my thumb and ring-finger on the sides with my index and middle fingers resting on the buttons. When I'm at home using my Microsoft Intellimouse Optical (not explorer), I use the same grip except that I use the top joint of my thumb to hold the mouse so I twitch the tip of my thumb to hit button 4. (http://www.actionforblindpeople.org.uk/data/images/width590/hand-on-mouse-514.jpg)
I move the mouse with a combination of movements including the use of my ring-finger (holding onto the mouse), my thumb (holding onto the mouse), and, to a lesser extent, my wrist which rests on a gel pad.
Why? Because my fingers are much more dexterous than my wrist and thus it's better for moving around multiple links, playing an FPS, or doing any kind of visual editing.
And yet... they seem to think I want a touchpad on a bump.
There are two general classes of mouse posture: finger-based and palm-based. There's also the "claw" one, which people contend the standard finger based posture is a subset of just less optimal for clicking response time. There's a heated contention between them among gamers who take things like this too seriously. Razer designs mice to fit the various styles, which they describe in their ergonomics guide: http://www2.razerzone.com/MouseGuide/html/palmgrip.php [razerzone.com]
That's very interesting and all, but I think a good majority of people hold the mouse the conventional way - clicking with the first two fingers. Like someone else above me said, the world doesn't really revolve around you. It's not that they think YOU want "a touchpad on a bump", it's that they feel a lot of people could comfortably and easily transition to these new mice.
I didn't invent this mouse grip technique, but it really helps. The fingers gripping the sides of the mouse(*) should also be in full contact with the mouse pad. That way you can get fine mouse movements just by rolling your gripping fingers left and right. Your gripping fingers are thus anchored by the mousepad and can exert very fine amounts of push on the mouse.
(*) For me these are thumb and pinky, but I suppose you could use thumb and ring finger.
Well, I guess that a big part of why you hold the mouse as you do is that you are used to that because mice have worked in such a way for a good while.
No. He said he holds it like this for a very good reason - because when manipulating a mouse using the fingers gives you much finer control than simply using the palm of your hand.
That's why any "improvement" that moves the fingers off the mouse is an inherently worse design. It's not "what he is used to", it's how our bodies are actually built. Within those parameters sure, you can come up with different shapes that seem worse at first but are actually better - as long as the fingers are responsible for controlling mouse movement.
Yes but it's easy to compensate for the motor control by reducing mouse sensitivity. In general I find people who opt for the finger controlled mouse posture are used to needing to vary sensitivity to perform precise tasks (like CAD or sniping in games). Before the advent of mice with adjustable resolution controls, the only really practical way to change sensitivity was the analog one - to use arm movements for the big changes and fingers for the fine tuning. The opposing pressure to this was in the cases
They had such a good idea with the Trackball Explorer - I just cannot understand why they won't produce more. There's a large, passionate community surrounding the TBE, with fan websites, forums and continuing write-in petitions (pleas) to MS.
Market demand usually speaks for itself:
A new-in-box TBE goes for $500+ on ebay - 10x its original retail price; a good refurbished one will go in the $250 range.
I personally have 2, and I will honestly cry when they go out.
I really prefer to feel a response from the mouse (well trackball) and keyboard. I'm sure people'd get used to whatever mouse was available so selection is good.
I do like the ability on the iPhone where I can expand or contract a web browser window with two fingers. I tried it on my Mac's touchpad and it didn't work (maybe I need to enable it). I don't like the lack of response, or at times too light a touch of the keyboard aspect of the iPhone. It's so light that I'll double enter letters and it's hard to tell if I have the right character unless I'm looking right at the text. Since there's no tactile feel, I can't touch type which means I have to look at the keyboard to make sure I'm in the right place and look at the input field to make sure I'm typing in what I want to type.
Interesting ideas though. The pinch one might be cool for porn:)
They should bring back a moldable CLIPPY!!! The helpful paperclip animation, but this time you could hold it and play with it, like you would a moldable action figure. It would be so useful, just like the other Clippy was! It would suggest things for me that I didn't even KNOW I wanted to do, and when I told it to go away, it just kept popping up, suggesting things!
What about a simple, largish, multitouch trackpad instead of a mouse? Ever since I switched to a MacBook I've been wondering about that. I tried a mouse on my MacBook (the unibody thing) a few times but I hardly ever used it at all. The MacBook trackpad ist just too good. Then I've tried to buy an large external trackpad to use with an external keyboard (it makes no sense to wear out a notebook keyboard when you're sitting at your desk) but to no avail.
So, why there isn't a large, USB-connected trackpad to use with a keyboard? These things should be simple and cheap, but try to buy one!
I'm not sure a mouse needs to be "multi-touch", in the same way that I don't think a mouse should respond to voice commands (sorry, Cmdr. Scott....).
Multi-touch makes sense for touch screens or track pads, as it changes them from a "cave-man" interface where the only real choices you have is "grunt" (tap), "grunt-grunt" (double-tap), and "uuuuuuugh!" (drag), into an interface where you have a few more choices (multi-finger drag, pinch, etc.).
The mouse already underwent such a change, when multiple buttons were added. I don't know if trying to map things you do on a flat panel onto things you do to a mouse makes any more sense than trying to make a joystick "multi-touch".
What is wrong with different interfaces having different semantics? I don't expect to drive my car with a touchpad, use a mouse to control my stove, or do word-processing with a steering wheel.
The natural extension of multi-button mania is infinite buttons, i.e. a continuous surface. So is it a surprise that it's come to this?
I agree that the flat panel to mouse mapping may be akward since the mouse isn't flat. It's the main reason I favor the orb-shape on they showed, since it's got its own potential for a lot of interesting things, and has enough area that you could fit a lot of control functionality on it. But I think it will lose out on appeal and cost. I'd love it if at least one gets to mar
You would think ergonomics might be a consideration when designing some of the new input devices. It looks like the user would need to put their hands, wrist, and fingers in awkward positions to perform specific tasks. What about something that allows for the natural movement and precision of the hand and fingers to control the device?
Well change seems inevitable because developers want the same multi-touch apps for all the new phones to work on desktops without redoing the interface. So the PC is going to need multitouch. So either the screen goes multitouch (which it has in some cases), or the input devices do. Since touchscreens have issues with things like smearing and comfort distance, that leaves the interface devices. Multitouch pads have been done, but most people still prefer mice. They're more precise due to the size of the working area, and easier for certain tasks like dragging because of the extra degrees of freedom on the arm/elbow which frees up the fingers for clicking instead of overloading them for both position and input.
Of these candidates, the cap mouse is most likely to win out, followed by the orb mouse, which may see a competing run in the high end. Why? Let's see:
FTIR mouse: This is basically an internal reflecting material like a lightpipe or fiberoptic cable. The problem is it limits the mouse because it requires this kind of material (think the demo uses acrylic), and design such that the camera can always see it. The shape has poor balance, CG, and drag properties, and will probably result in breaking or issues sliding for many people. The restrictions to mouse design will annoy existing manufacturers, unlike say optical sensors, which were just drop in replacements for mouse balls.
Articulated mouse (Arty): Not happening, for a simple reason - people won't want to readjust to left/right click being thumb/forefinger instead of index/middle. It sounds stupid, but believe me it will be a showstopper. Plus the design is a bit fragile, and I'm not sure on the ergonomics of having to extend the finger and thumb like that, seems like an RSI issue waiting to happen.
Side mouse: This has some potential, but it will be plagued by unintentional inputs. Any time you drum your fingers impatiently, drop a pen on the desk, move the camera too close to something sitting on the desk, it will go nuts. It might be useful in cases where you can't build a touchpad into a device, but in most of those cases the device is so small you want to hold it not rest it on a desk anyway, so there'd be no surface for the side mouse to track on.
Now for the showdown between the two serious contenders.
Orb mouse: Really nice input image. Can easily do a variety of applications with it, since there's so much area. Datacenters sometimes use illuminated vein pattern recognition for biometrics, which can be efficiently integrated with this, and it's a better solution than those stupid touchpad fingerprint readers. But for more conventional apps it's got the most area, the best shape to exploit the use of all fingers, and in deference to the mention of clock-based positioning on the Gizmodo article about it, will probably be the easiest for people to extend thinking to. The main showstoppers are cost (not sure) and bulk/shape issues. People may not find the bulgy shape appealing though I suspect it will test well with male audiences.
Cap mouse: Probably going to win, despite the low resolution sensor image. Why? That "$1 gesture recognition" on the video says it all. Not the gesture support part, the $1 part. Cost wise it's probably cheapest, and it seemed to work sufficient for the apps in the demo. It's also just a bolt-on to existing mouse designs. No need to modify the existing shape or ergonomics to accommodate it, which means it's the path of least resistance. If it's also the path of least cost, which given most of the rest need a camera-quality sensor it most likely is, then the winner seems pretty obvious.
I think for Desktops the design that will win out is keyboards with trackpads, like a laptop keyboard separated from a laptop. Most people would simply use those alone, gamers or people with more need for fine control would attach a traditional mouse for specific uses.
But fewer and fewer people will be using them, since laptop use is dramatically increasing.
Perhaps mice will even go away altogether, replaced by more task specific controls, like game controllers and Wacom tablets for artists.
Nope, there have been keyboards with trackpads for quite a long time now. Also, how are sales of USB trackpads for desktops? I remember buying a 9 pin serial port based one back when they just came out and were the hot new things. But I found it wasn't all that great.
The main reason I don't see touchpads taking over desktops is a simple one. A touchpad requires you to use fingers for both positioning AND clicking. It's an overloaded operation. What was one of the earliest improvements to touchpad design? Th
An ergonomist taught me that one thing you do not want to do is continually hold your button clicking fingers away from the buttons. That kind of static loading on the extensor muscles is really bad. While using a mouse and are not actively clicking, you want the fingers to rest on the buttons without extensor or flexor muscles being used (preferably with an armrest supporting your entire forearm). With these touch sensitive devices you HAVE to use the extensor muscles to keep the fingers away from the device.
Not true. Put your finger on a touchpad and hold it there. Does the mouse move continuously? Does it continually click from the double-tap function?
No, because it works on a differential. So resting your fingers on the mouse as normal is fine. There may be a bit of an issue about registering clicks, which will take either pressure sensitivity at a basic (binary) level, or a change in user habits to lift the mouse and put it down again as the click action instead of the reverse.
But I think most likely some smart manufacturer will just put the capacitive surface over existing mouse buttons, which are wired to their normal function. People will still want the tactile click feedback, and this does not impair the functionality of the capacitive surface.
If there's no reason the choice must be exclusive, then the choice will be both.
Please go back and actually watch the video. They operate the mouses exactly like I am saying (with fingers continually lifted off so the sensors won't detect them).
If I'm understanding this correctly, your fingers should be hovering slightly above or lightly resting on the buttons, right? If that's the case (and you add in the implicit pre-requisites that your wrists are straight, hands and fingers are relaxed, etc.), then what you're describing is proper keyboard technique.
The only way I see that as being possible for a mouse is if the mouse is two-dimensional, and sits on the surface of your desk.
Tactile response is sometimes a god send. I would hate having to look at my mouse to figure out where my hand was. A touch pad makes sense because you aren't moving it so everything stays relatively put. The mouse on the other hand would at least need something to orientate yourself to where things are, but that would kind of destroy the whole point in my mind of using a multi-touch surface.
I just realized something. If the "orb" mouse becomes common, it's going to need a tactile indicator for hand alignment. Like the little raised bumps keyboards usually have on the home keys so you can find the default position by feel.
If it doesn't get named the boob mouse after that, I'll eat one.
Looking at the "Arty" mouse, I'm pretty confident in saying that at least one of their designers enjoys playing Pikmin - its cross-section looks a lot like a Bulborb.
This ones [ted.com] are just the start. And you give some time to Microsoft creativity and they will do the multitouch equivalent of pressing start to end the session.
Or anybody with missing digits? A basic mouse can pretty much be used with one finger (not counting the thumb for grip)
In that situation, trackballs work even better.
Trackballs are faster than mice because of muscle memory... I have to switch from keyboard to pointing device about a thousand times a day, and the trackball is always in the same place. Also easier on my fingers, no weird ergonomic twisting like a mouse. Also faster because I don't have to continually readjust from rolling the mouse off the pad.
Pad devices are almost as good, except they are very low resolution compared to a trackball and still have the "run
Not that these are any better, but the Mighty Mouse sucked. So many years being mocked for having one button, and then, spitefully, they eschew that one in favor of some wonky touch pad setup. Did it ever occur to these people that it's nice to have tactile response? Call me old fashioned, but when I click, I want to hear and feel a click, and when I press a key, I want it to move downward and make a little clack. Now get off my lawn!
Not that these are any better, but the Mighty Mouse sucked
I admire your extraordinary ability to tell how well a mouse will work without actually trying it.
So many years being mocked for having one button, and then, spitefully, they eschew that one in favor of some wonky touch pad setup. Did it ever occur to these people that it's nice to have tactile response? Call me old fashioned, but when I click, I want to hear and feel a click, and when I press a key, I want it to move downward and make a little clack
Have you ever actually used a Mighty Mouse? It does have tactile response. You hear and feel a click. It moves downward and makes a clack.
I have the same problem with the mighty mouse. It is too easy to click the 'wrong' side of the mouse, and it was just a little to vague for lack of a better term. The track ball was excellent, as was the precision, but I just couldn't use it.
I actually like the Mac touch pad. I would have never dreamed I would say such a thing as touch pads, in general, are right up there with root canal in my book. I actually found the Macbook Pro's multi-touch pad very sensitive, with perfect acceleration and excellent pr
Open source game? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Open source game? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, I am sure that everybody at Microsoft has access to all the code they have ever produced, including every single game produced by completely different companies (at the time).
They probably have an open share drive, with every piece of code ever made, from gorilla.bas to Windows 8.
You know, because they are morons.
Parent
Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Modernize the mouse maybe - but what about our hands? Every single one of those looked like a carpal tunnel nightmare.
Parent
Re:I don't know ... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Funny you should mention that, since Microsoft already sold the ultimate pointing device: the Trackball Explorer [google.co.uk]. Now out of production, and edging towards $200 per unit on eBay.
They killed that, they'll kill this too.
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I don't know about the idea of a multi-touch mouse though. I'd rather have a screen to interact with. A mouse design would denote having a cursor and resting your fingers somewhere that is not detected as a press. If there's nowhere to rest your fingers, you spend a large portion of your time using said mouse with your fingers in the air with no tactile response. It would also seem to me to be a "looser" grip on the mouse making it less "natural" as a pointing device.
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Re:Finally (Score:4, Interesting)
"More buttons" isn't necessarily the solution either. I've had mice with tons of buttons but never have I used more than left, right, and the scroll wheel. Having tried the others and gaining nothing from the experience I'm really forced to wonder why we feel the need to "innovate" or otherwise alter a perfectly usable paradigm -- the two-button, scroll-wheel mouse.
Unless and until our style of interacting with computers changes in a very fundamental way, it seems to be just a complete waste of time, with a few people adopting the "new" methods, but most going back to the reliable, simple mouse -- because it works.
Parent
Making up? (Score:3, Funny)
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They haven't finished making up for WinME yet. :)
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Don't get me wrong, BOB was a terrible idea, badly implemented, but it did set a new high water mark for BAD software, and will continue to be the butt of jokes long after you and are long gone.
How do they think we hold a mouse? (Score:5, Interesting)
I move the mouse with a combination of movements including the use of my ring-finger (holding onto the mouse), my thumb (holding onto the mouse), and, to a lesser extent, my wrist which rests on a gel pad.
Why? Because my fingers are much more dexterous than my wrist and thus it's better for moving around multiple links, playing an FPS, or doing any kind of visual editing.
And yet... they seem to think I want a touchpad on a bump.
Finger vs palm mousers are an issue. (Score:3, Informative)
There are two general classes of mouse posture: finger-based and palm-based. There's also the "claw" one, which people contend the standard finger based posture is a subset of just less optimal for clicking response time. There's a heated contention between them among gamers who take things like this too seriously. Razer designs mice to fit the various styles, which they describe in their ergonomics guide: http://www2.razerzone.com/MouseGuide/html/palmgrip.php [razerzone.com]
Some people prefer to use the fingers for fine m
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I have a modified claw stance for my mouse and hand. My wrist doesn't bend much - my hand simply rests slightly diagonally on a forward facing mouse.
Works best with Razer mice - huge buttons about 60% the size of the mouse, so you can put your fingers just about anywhere.
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Grip Improvement (Score:3, Interesting)
I didn't invent this mouse grip technique, but it really helps. The fingers gripping the sides of the mouse(*) should also be in full contact with the mouse pad. That way you can get fine mouse movements just by rolling your gripping fingers left and right. Your gripping fingers are thus anchored by the mousepad and can exert very fine amounts of push on the mouse.
(*) For me these are thumb and pinky, but I suppose you could use thumb and ring finger.
You overlook his analyses (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I guess that a big part of why you hold the mouse as you do is that you are used to that because mice have worked in such a way for a good while.
No. He said he holds it like this for a very good reason - because when manipulating a mouse using the fingers gives you much finer control than simply using the palm of your hand.
That's why any "improvement" that moves the fingers off the mouse is an inherently worse design. It's not "what he is used to", it's how our bodies are actually built. Within those parameters sure, you can come up with different shapes that seem worse at first but are actually better - as long as the fingers are responsible for controlling mouse movement.
Parent
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Yes but it's easy to compensate for the motor control by reducing mouse sensitivity. In general I find people who opt for the finger controlled mouse posture are used to needing to vary sensitivity to perform precise tasks (like CAD or sniping in games). Before the advent of mice with adjustable resolution controls, the only really practical way to change sensitivity was the analog one - to use arm movements for the big changes and fingers for the fine tuning. The opposing pressure to this was in the cases
Microsoft Trackball Explorer (TBE) (Score:2, Interesting)
They had such a good idea with the Trackball Explorer - I just cannot understand why they won't produce more. There's a large, passionate community surrounding the TBE, with fan websites, forums and continuing write-in petitions (pleas) to MS.
Market demand usually speaks for itself:
A new-in-box TBE goes for $500+ on ebay - 10x its original retail price; a good refurbished one will go in the $250 range.
I personally have 2, and I will honestly cry when they go out.
Orb was the closest (Score:3, Funny)
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Less tactile (Score:3, Insightful)
I really prefer to feel a response from the mouse (well trackball) and keyboard. I'm sure people'd get used to whatever mouse was available so selection is good.
I do like the ability on the iPhone where I can expand or contract a web browser window with two fingers. I tried it on my Mac's touchpad and it didn't work (maybe I need to enable it). I don't like the lack of response, or at times too light a touch of the keyboard aspect of the iPhone. It's so light that I'll double enter letters and it's hard to tell if I have the right character unless I'm looking right at the text. Since there's no tactile feel, I can't touch type which means I have to look at the keyboard to make sure I'm in the right place and look at the input field to make sure I'm typing in what I want to type.
Interesting ideas though. The pinch one might be cool for porn :)
[John]
Forget Arty, Bring Back Clippy!!! (Score:2, Offtopic)
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it just kept popping up, suggesting things!
did it tell you to burn the house too?
External trackpad? (Score:4, Interesting)
What about a simple, largish, multitouch trackpad instead of a mouse? Ever since I switched to a MacBook I've been wondering about that. I tried a mouse on my MacBook (the unibody thing) a few times but I hardly ever used it at all. The MacBook trackpad ist just too good. Then I've tried to buy an large external trackpad to use with an external keyboard (it makes no sense to wear out a notebook keyboard when you're sitting at your desk) but to no avail.
So, why there isn't a large, USB-connected trackpad to use with a keyboard? These things should be simple and cheap, but try to buy one!
Multiple interfaces, MULTIPLE METHODS! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure a mouse needs to be "multi-touch", in the same way that I don't think a mouse should respond to voice commands (sorry, Cmdr. Scott....).
Multi-touch makes sense for touch screens or track pads, as it changes them from a "cave-man" interface where the only real choices you have is "grunt" (tap), "grunt-grunt" (double-tap), and "uuuuuuugh!" (drag), into an interface where you have a few more choices (multi-finger drag, pinch, etc.).
The mouse already underwent such a change, when multiple buttons were added. I don't know if trying to map things you do on a flat panel onto things you do to a mouse makes any more sense than trying to make a joystick "multi-touch".
What is wrong with different interfaces having different semantics? I don't expect to drive my car with a touchpad, use a mouse to control my stove, or do word-processing with a steering wheel.
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The natural extension of multi-button mania is infinite buttons, i.e. a continuous surface. So is it a surprise that it's come to this?
I agree that the flat panel to mouse mapping may be akward since the mouse isn't flat. It's the main reason I favor the orb-shape on they showed, since it's got its own potential for a lot of interesting things, and has enough area that you could fit a lot of control functionality on it. But I think it will lose out on appeal and cost. I'd love it if at least one gets to mar
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Multi-touch is fantastic for a handheld mobile computing device, smart phone, etc.
I don't think touch screens, multitouch interfaces, or anything else will supplant the keyboard and mouse on a workstation.
Touchtyping accurately and quickly is extremely difficult on a virtual keyboard with no tactile feedback.
Not saying it can't be done, just saying I don't know anyone that would want to do that all day at work.
that said, multitouch is the killer app for
Ergonomics? (Score:2, Insightful)
I think the cap mouse will probably win out. (Score:5, Informative)
Well change seems inevitable because developers want the same multi-touch apps for all the new phones to work on desktops without redoing the interface. So the PC is going to need multitouch. So either the screen goes multitouch (which it has in some cases), or the input devices do. Since touchscreens have issues with things like smearing and comfort distance, that leaves the interface devices. Multitouch pads have been done, but most people still prefer mice. They're more precise due to the size of the working area, and easier for certain tasks like dragging because of the extra degrees of freedom on the arm/elbow which frees up the fingers for clicking instead of overloading them for both position and input.
Of these candidates, the cap mouse is most likely to win out, followed by the orb mouse, which may see a competing run in the high end. Why? Let's see:
FTIR mouse: This is basically an internal reflecting material like a lightpipe or fiberoptic cable. The problem is it limits the mouse because it requires this kind of material (think the demo uses acrylic), and design such that the camera can always see it. The shape has poor balance, CG, and drag properties, and will probably result in breaking or issues sliding for many people. The restrictions to mouse design will annoy existing manufacturers, unlike say optical sensors, which were just drop in replacements for mouse balls.
Articulated mouse (Arty): Not happening, for a simple reason - people won't want to readjust to left/right click being thumb/forefinger instead of index/middle. It sounds stupid, but believe me it will be a showstopper. Plus the design is a bit fragile, and I'm not sure on the ergonomics of having to extend the finger and thumb like that, seems like an RSI issue waiting to happen.
Side mouse: This has some potential, but it will be plagued by unintentional inputs. Any time you drum your fingers impatiently, drop a pen on the desk, move the camera too close to something sitting on the desk, it will go nuts. It might be useful in cases where you can't build a touchpad into a device, but in most of those cases the device is so small you want to hold it not rest it on a desk anyway, so there'd be no surface for the side mouse to track on.
Now for the showdown between the two serious contenders.
Orb mouse: Really nice input image. Can easily do a variety of applications with it, since there's so much area. Datacenters sometimes use illuminated vein pattern recognition for biometrics, which can be efficiently integrated with this, and it's a better solution than those stupid touchpad fingerprint readers. But for more conventional apps it's got the most area, the best shape to exploit the use of all fingers, and in deference to the mention of clock-based positioning on the Gizmodo article about it, will probably be the easiest for people to extend thinking to. The main showstoppers are cost (not sure) and bulk/shape issues. People may not find the bulgy shape appealing though I suspect it will test well with male audiences.
Cap mouse: Probably going to win, despite the low resolution sensor image. Why? That "$1 gesture recognition" on the video says it all. Not the gesture support part, the $1 part. Cost wise it's probably cheapest, and it seemed to work sufficient for the apps in the demo. It's also just a bolt-on to existing mouse designs. No need to modify the existing shape or ergonomics to accommodate it, which means it's the path of least resistance. If it's also the path of least cost, which given most of the rest need a camera-quality sensor it most likely is, then the winner seems pretty obvious.
Mice the same, keyboards to change (Score:5, Insightful)
I think for Desktops the design that will win out is keyboards with trackpads, like a laptop keyboard separated from a laptop. Most people would simply use those alone, gamers or people with more need for fine control would attach a traditional mouse for specific uses.
But fewer and fewer people will be using them, since laptop use is dramatically increasing.
Perhaps mice will even go away altogether, replaced by more task specific controls, like game controllers and Wacom tablets for artists.
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Nope, there have been keyboards with trackpads for quite a long time now. Also, how are sales of USB trackpads for desktops? I remember buying a 9 pin serial port based one back when they just came out and were the hot new things. But I found it wasn't all that great.
The main reason I don't see touchpads taking over desktops is a simple one. A touchpad requires you to use fingers for both positioning AND clicking. It's an overloaded operation. What was one of the earliest improvements to touchpad design? Th
This looks VERY bad. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This looks VERY bad. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not true. Put your finger on a touchpad and hold it there. Does the mouse move continuously? Does it continually click from the double-tap function?
No, because it works on a differential. So resting your fingers on the mouse as normal is fine. There may be a bit of an issue about registering clicks, which will take either pressure sensitivity at a basic (binary) level, or a change in user habits to lift the mouse and put it down again as the click action instead of the reverse.
But I think most likely some smart manufacturer will just put the capacitive surface over existing mouse buttons, which are wired to their normal function. People will still want the tactile click feedback, and this does not impair the functionality of the capacitive surface.
If there's no reason the choice must be exclusive, then the choice will be both.
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Interesting.
If I'm understanding this correctly, your fingers should be hovering slightly above or lightly resting on the buttons, right? If that's the case (and you add in the implicit pre-requisites that your wrists are straight, hands and fingers are relaxed, etc.), then what you're describing is proper keyboard technique.
The only way I see that as being possible for a mouse is if the mouse is two-dimensional, and sits on the surface of your desk.
hmm (Score:2)
Waves hand, erases memory... (Score:2)
Not Practicle (Score:2)
cap mouse for me (Score:2)
I'd say that cap mouse was most likely to see commercial production, but I think i'd be happier with a big touch pad addition to a quality keyboard.
The boob mouse will need a nipple. (Score:2)
I just realized something. If the "orb" mouse becomes common, it's going to need a tactile indicator for hand alignment. Like the little raised bumps keyboards usually have on the home keys so you can find the default position by feel.
If it doesn't get named the boob mouse after that, I'll eat one.
The arty mouse (Score:2)
Looking at the "Arty" mouse, I'm pretty confident in saying that at least one of their designers enjoys playing Pikmin - its cross-section looks a lot like a Bulborb.
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Or anybody with missing digits? A basic mouse can pretty much be used with one finger (not counting the thumb for grip)
In that situation, trackballs work even better.
Trackballs are faster than mice because of muscle memory... I have to switch from keyboard to pointing device about a thousand times a day, and the trackball is always in the same place. Also easier on my fingers, no weird ergonomic twisting like a mouse. Also faster because I don't have to continually readjust from rolling the mouse off the pad.
Pad devices are almost as good, except they are very low resolution compared to a trackball and still have the "run
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Not that these are any better, but the Mighty Mouse sucked
I admire your extraordinary ability to tell how well a mouse will work without actually trying it.
So many years being mocked for having one button, and then, spitefully, they eschew that one in favor of some wonky touch pad setup. Did it ever occur to these people that it's nice to have tactile response? Call me old fashioned, but when I click, I want to hear and feel a click, and when I press a key, I want it to move downward and make a little clack
Have you ever actually used a Mighty Mouse? It does have tactile response. You hear and feel a click. It moves downward and makes a clack.
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I have the same problem with the mighty mouse. It is too easy to click the 'wrong' side of the mouse, and it was just a little to vague for lack of a better term. The track ball was excellent, as was the precision, but I just couldn't use it.
I actually like the Mac touch pad. I would have never dreamed I would say such a thing as touch pads, in general, are right up there with root canal in my book. I actually found the Macbook Pro's multi-touch pad very sensitive, with perfect acceleration and excellent pr