destinyland writes "Cyberdyne has started renting their exoskeleton body suits in Japan. The mind-controlled wearable machine increases strength and endurance, and rents for $2,300 a month. (Sensors on the skin detect traces of nerve signals from the brain, synchronizing the power suit's movements with the user's own limbs.) New video shows the suits in use on the streets of Tokyo, and the concept may be catching on. DARPA now has a program called Exoskeletons for Human Performance Augmentation 'to develop devices and machines that will increase the speed, strength and endurance of soldiers in combat environments.'"
See title. I did not see anything in the video which could not be done by relying solely on your ordinary inner skeleton. Except of looking silly, which judging from western media's coverage of Japanese culture must be Japan's most popular pastime.
But I will give some props to the exoskeletons -- they did not keep that girl from swaying her ass so nicely. Maybe they even enhanced it.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Wednesday September 09, @01:51AM (#29362661)
I did not see anything in the video which could not be done by relying solely on your ordinary inner skeleton.
So says the person whose ordinary inner skeleton (and the muscles surrounding it) obviously work without any problem. The disabled, those in rehabilitation, the elderly and infirm, I guess these people don't exist in your world *roll*
Well, it would be great if these things help the disabled, but none of the people in the test were disabled. And the article did not say that these would help the disabled. In fact it said that the exo-skeleton "is not ready for grandma yet."
Not to put too much emphasis on this failing, but I can easily carry 2 50 pound bags of rice and do squats and I'm not even considered strong. My buddy could quite easily carry 4 and do squats and walk around. Having one person who can and one who can't doesn't really prove the suit is doing the "heavy lifting" portion of that task.
I'm sure it's significantly augmenting the lifting, but it doesn't really prove anything about able-bodied versus disabled. Someone who can walk but can only walk short distan
It is worth it for almost-paralyzed people who are sick of being stuck into their wheelchairs. Most of the old people unable to walk are not paralyzed but to weak to stand. In US they pray, in Japan they pay. Guess who gets to walk again ?
Seriously, I could see me pay a lot of money to be able to walk in the latter years of my life.
Only if the things come with armor that can stop the bullets properly. So far exoskeletons seem to be mostly meant to augment strength and mobility, not armor so a bullet would do the same damage. There are a few places that could be hit and cripple in a way that the exoskeleton could compensate for but there are many more places that will leave you dead.
Even if they haven't been shipped with armour attached, this sort of technology is perfect for military armour, as the folks in the US are undoubtedly aware. The primary limiting factor in armour is weight. A soldier can only carry so much, can't afford to be slowed down, and already has many kilos of equipment, none of which are going away. To provide decent support against most military weapons requires fairly heavy armour - a kevlar vest isn't going to cut it here. Plus, you've got to balance weight
It speaks heavily about their needs. Japan is very concerned about lack of youth. They are currently regressing in terms of population size (of Japanese; illegal aliens are an issue for them). OTH, America has spent TONS of money on it for moving things. Simply the last investment is via DOD contractors. But, there has been active research into this for several decades. And up until recent times, it was concerned mostly with hazardous waste and/or moving large material.
You, sir, win a million points for insight. Minus one for saying it has nothing to do with culture though.
Publicly, it is very important to Japan that their innovations and applications are seen as being civil rather than military, for political and cultural reasons going back decades.
That is not entirely accurate either. An old roommate of mine, Yosuke explained that the gov. actually funds lots of projects that are dual use. His dad was high up in MITI, so he had some good knowledge. They simply fund it from the civilian side of things. But in general, they preferred items that were dual use. Partially for their own military needs, but also because they wanted to work closely with America (and sell it to us). The admin would have quietly looked at this for military purposes.
I wonder what the long term consequences are of wearing one of these things all the time. As it is we're lazy. Now we don't even have to use our own muscles?
As someone who is ~30 and has 5 surgeries to date on my right knee, I'd prefer the consequences(muscle atrophy) of using using something like this to supplement my existing leg as opposed to a knee replacement. My point is, there are reasons other than laziness that some people may get excited about this technology(disabilities). Even wearing an acl brace, I can barely walk after a scrimmage with my nephew's or son's soccer team that I coach; an exoskeleton leg could keep me doing what I love for a long time w/o pain and disability.
That depends entirely on who will be using them. If those persons aren't able to move/exercise on their own then it's good, I'd take one of these over a wheelchair any day. If it's used for superhuman strength then I imagine it'll still take normal strength on the inside. But yeah, if you use it only for convienience and all the time then maybe. But that's really no different from a couch potato that barely gets his ass out to the car and back. In fact, I'm fairly sure that this motion will be more exercise than sitting in a car no matter what.
Not everyone is lazy. I have intervertebral disc problem, and sometimes, it could be pretty nasty, I can't even stand up straight. If I stand or walk over an hour or two, I would have difficulty standing straight, and the lower back all the way to my calf are painful.
And no, I'm not a couch potato, I exercise twice to three times a week, mainly jogging (go slowly and gradually speeding up, up to 8km in 50 minutes) and swimming (2 to 3km in 1.5 hour) and stretching. And I'm not overweight either (had never been), I weigh 75kg, at 1.78cm tall. So that's pretty ok. If I don't exercise, my problems get worse.
So this exoskeleton could be a nice thing for me. I just wish it's not that expensive, and not so "borgy" (not that I mind that much). I would love to have one to help me sometimes, which would make life less miserable when the problem arise.
The title of the original article says that these exoskeletons may soon become like bicycles. I doubt that and I'm sure that most governments will outlaw them. Whoever wears them could pose a serious threat to the people around him/her and why would anyone wear one for show if not for work (like construction) or fighting (which is illegal) ?
I'd hate to see what one of those things can do (to the user) if the sensors malfunction. Lets hope that the joints are desgined to not have a larger range of motion then the human wearing them.
Being mind-controlled and all, lets just hope that a beautiful lady doesn't walk past and you subconsiously grab a body part you don't want to be squeezed by a powerful mechanical arm...
The way I see it, this has a very scary natural progression.
Military use: At first, it's only used to assist in very special cases. Eventually it's perfected and every infantryman has one! Well, that's great. But one day, some 'genius' general is going to say, "Hey, what if we had the suits continue working even AFTER the soldier has died? That'll scare the bejesus out of the enemy!" And he'll get a medal, and some room full of programmers will work on making the suit controllable remotely, with simple commands that allow to act somewhat autonomously. (Stuff like... "Is the soldier dead? Okay, rush the bad guys and scare them")
It works so well, that soon they don't even take the dead soldiers out of the suits until they start to smell pretty bad, which gives away their position. The suit would dig a grave, drop its soldier in it, and run back to base.
Eventually that autonomy will prove so effective, they start allowing portions of it to activate even if the soldier is still alive. ("Not moving fast enough? Here, I'll help." "Hey, orders said go down this street, not that one. Let me help!" "Why aren't you shooting the small people with things shaped like grenades? Let me take care of that for you.") The soldiers will follow orders MUCH more effectively. And even if the suits walk them into death, well, the suits are more durable, and the enemy is more scared of dead walking soldiers, so... yeah.
Corpse armies will soon become the norm, and instead of enlisted soldiers, we'll just start tossing criminals into the suits. Inevitably the criminals would disobey an order (probably given an impossible order right away) and lose 100% control, and just be slaves to the suit until they got shot in combat.
So now we have robot zombie armies fighting each other with reckless disregard, since nobody's really getting killed anyway.
I watched the video of the three people walking the streets with leg exoskeletons.
Argh! It just abounds in wrongness! They are all in black, with white exoskeletons. There should be a red one, a blue one and a yellow one or some such! Don't these people watch Sentai shows?
I've posted a few times in this thread in an entirely joking manner, but something I couldn't quite put my finger on has been bothering me about this whole thing. It finally struck me.
I occasionally do a little demonstration to show how the body responds to certain stimuli. You can try it yourself. Stand in a doorway, place the outside of your wrists against the sides of the doorjamb (the door has to be open, idiot), and apply steady, yet heavy pressure outwards with both arms, as if you are trying to do a jumping-jack, but the doorjamb is preventing your arms from going all the way up. Push hard. Hold it, still applying outward pressure, for a count of 60 seconds, then step out of the doorway and just relax, with your arms hanging at your sides. Weird, huh?
Your arms will almost immediately begin raising back into the previous position, outwards, without any intentional effort, almost as if you are in a zero-G environment.
Astronauts experience the exact opposite of this. They do not require much effort to move around, so that when they are suddenly back on Earth, it is very difficult for them to move around. I am not talking about muscle atrophy. That takes much longer to happen. As the previous exercise demonstrates, it takes a mere 60 seconds to condition the body to changes in the environment, yet it takes just as long for it to re-adapt.
Now imagine a soldier in the field. Blastin' away, running hither and yon, jumpin' jack flash, for hours on end, his movements amplified by this crazy borg suit. Suddenly he takes a hit in the powerpack, or it just runs outta juice in the middle of a fire-fight. So what does he do? He takes the fucking thing off, otherwise he is a deadman (or simply laying there like one).
Here is the problem. He is so conditioned to the suit, now it is off, it takes a long time to readjust. He is STILL a sitting duck, blundering around like a 40oz drunk because his muscles/brain are still expecting the suit to be doing most of the work.
This is a bad scenario. He is the Terminator while the battery lasts, and Erkle-the-Wonder-Geek with no body armor when it goes dead.
I think I'd rather hump the 80lb pack around and be able to dump it (and float like a butterfly) when the shit really hit the fan.
How about not making the feedback linear? I.e let the soldier hold 80% of the weight for small loads and 20% for heavier loads.
Sure it would make it more difficult to differentiate the real mass of things you lift but its a small price compared to the problem you described.
I'd recommend reading "Starship Troopers" by Robert Heinlein, which covers some interesting problems regarding exoskeletons used in combat. The solution of course is to not amplify the soldiers strength unless needed. The suit should simply move with the body in normal situations and only ampify in extreme situations, when the soldier exerts extreme force.
It's not a joke, but it is old news. Other projects like HULC and their ilk have been doing the media rounds for years now. They got a lot of media attention even though they failed at their basic goal - lowering metabolic cost. Since walking in a robot suit with any lag is so much more taxing than walking uninhibited, none of the systems to date have been usable for extended periods of time without operator fatigue*. I suspect that's why we've seen them at all: they were failures.
Colour me paranoid, but I think the exoskeleton success stories won't be seen in Popular Mechanics until they're already obsolete.
*Yes, I've worked on robotics exoskeletons, and have spoken with other people who develop them.
To clarify, I'm talking about military power and endurance-boosting exoskeletons here, not rehabilitation systems. I have no experience with them, or their effectiveness.
Actually, outside of the espionage business, I'm not sure I can think of classified military tech that remained secret until obsolescence. Not saying it hasn't happened (we might never know after all), or that they don't do their best to keep stuff secret, but once the grunts get ahold of something, you can bet it'll become common knowledge very quickly.
The stuff that does get kept secret is the stuff that never enters widespread use, or only requires the knowledge of a few highly placed people to deploy. Spy planes and satellites, failed prototypes, software, bioweapons, strategic command and communication systems - those can be hidden. Anything destined for the front lines can't stay secret for long.
Of course, you could have meant the successful prototypes will remain hidden from the public, but you did say "until they're already obsolete", which suggests they've passed the prototype stage, entered production, and fallen behind the curve.
Cyberdyne = the fictional company that built Skynet in the Terminator movies HAL = the computer in "2001: A Space Odyssey"
You're obviously not a science fiction geek;-)
And I'm surprised that a real company calls itself Cyberdyne and uses HAL as an acronym for a real product. While I appreciate the humor, most companies want reputable sounding rather than funny names. That way, Japanese Cyberdyne is a big exception.
To top off it off, the article is from h+ magazine [hplusmagazine.com], who covers "technological, scientific, and cultural trends that are changing -- and will change -- human beings in fundamental ways." They are part of Transhumanism movement [wikipedia.org], an "international intellectual and cultural movement supporting the use of science and technology to improve human mental and physical characteristics and capacities."
Sound familiar?
Resistance is futile indeed. Pray Godzilla will save us!
Seriously? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Funny)
Much better than the competitor, Holly, with the slogan "the closest thing to infullable you can get."
Parent
The only thing they enhanced was the nerdiness (Score:4, Funny)
See title. I did not see anything in the video which could not be done by relying solely on your ordinary inner skeleton. Except of looking silly, which judging from western media's coverage of Japanese culture must be Japan's most popular pastime.
But I will give some props to the exoskeletons -- they did not keep that girl from swaying her ass so nicely. Maybe they even enhanced it.
Re:The only thing they enhanced was the nerdiness (Score:4, Insightful)
So says the person whose ordinary inner skeleton (and the muscles surrounding it) obviously work without any problem. The disabled, those in rehabilitation, the elderly and infirm, I guess these people don't exist in your world *roll*
Parent
Re:The only thing they enhanced was the nerdiness (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, it would be great if these things help the disabled, but none of the people in the test were disabled. And the article did not say that these would help the disabled. In fact it said that the exo-skeleton "is not ready for grandma yet."
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to put too much emphasis on this failing, but I can easily carry 2 50 pound bags of rice and do squats and I'm not even considered strong. My buddy could quite easily carry 4 and do squats and walk around. Having one person who can and one who can't doesn't really prove the suit is doing the "heavy lifting" portion of that task.
I'm sure it's significantly augmenting the lifting, but it doesn't really prove anything about able-bodied versus disabled. Someone who can walk but can only walk short distan
Worth it? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm in!
Re:Worth it? (Score:5, Funny)
"If men could fuck women in a cardboard box, they wouldn't buy a house." -- Dave Chappelle
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, I could see me pay a lot of money to be able to walk in the latter years of my life.
Re:Worth it? (Score:5, Funny)
I've got one argument against it: People on the street going "Ha-haa! Cripple!"
On the other hand, you can then rip their limbs off.
Parent
Hrmm (Score:4, Funny)
The military version might be able to lift 200lb weights, speed box, run, jump and other amazing things.
Nothing a cup of water wont put a stop to.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, just like tanks stop dead when they get wet.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Interesting Cultural Differences (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA, the exoskeleton from the Japanese is being made to help the disabled and the immobile. The US exoskeleton? It's for the soldier of tomorrow.
Interesting priorities, that tell a lot about each culture.
Re: (Score:2)
The uses are not mutually exclusive.
US soldiers have a nasty habit of getting in the way of US bullets ... friendly fire, I believe they call it.
If they are wearing exoskeletons, then maybe they won't end up disabled / immobile at the hands of their own generals ?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Hey that wasn't his fault, he was just spychecking and nobody told him FF was on.
Re: (Score:2)
...disabled / immobile ...?
Hey, I think Japan is developing an exo-suit for that!
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Only if the things come with armor that can stop the bullets properly. So far exoskeletons seem to be mostly meant to augment strength and mobility, not armor so a bullet would do the same damage. There are a few places that could be hit and cripple in a way that the exoskeleton could compensate for but there are many more places that will leave you dead.
Re: (Score:2)
Even if they haven't been shipped with armour attached, this sort of technology is perfect for military armour, as the folks in the US are undoubtedly aware. The primary limiting factor in armour is weight. A soldier can only carry so much, can't afford to be slowed down, and already has many kilos of equipment, none of which are going away. To provide decent support against most military weapons requires fairly heavy armour - a kevlar vest isn't going to cut it here. Plus, you've got to balance weight
Not really (Score:5, Insightful)
Culture has NOTHING to do with this.
Parent
Re:Not really (Score:5, Interesting)
You, sir, win a million points for insight. Minus one for saying it has nothing to do with culture though.
Publicly, it is very important to Japan that their innovations and applications are seen as being civil rather than military, for political and cultural reasons going back decades.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
As to the
Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Homer: "And here I am using my own lungs like a sucker."
Re: (Score:2)
You use more muscles for these than you do for passively sitting in a car or buss.
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:4, Insightful)
That depends entirely on who will be using them. If those persons aren't able to move/exercise on their own then it's good, I'd take one of these over a wheelchair any day. If it's used for superhuman strength then I imagine it'll still take normal strength on the inside. But yeah, if you use it only for convienience and all the time then maybe. But that's really no different from a couch potato that barely gets his ass out to the car and back. In fact, I'm fairly sure that this motion will be more exercise than sitting in a car no matter what.
Parent
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Informative)
Not everyone is lazy. I have intervertebral disc problem, and sometimes, it could be pretty nasty, I can't even stand up straight. If I stand or walk over an hour or two, I would have difficulty standing straight, and the lower back all the way to my calf are painful.
And no, I'm not a couch potato, I exercise twice to three times a week, mainly jogging (go slowly and gradually speeding up, up to 8km in 50 minutes) and swimming (2 to 3km in 1.5 hour) and stretching. And I'm not overweight either (had never been), I weigh 75kg, at 1.78cm tall. So that's pretty ok. If I don't exercise, my problems get worse.
So this exoskeleton could be a nice thing for me. I just wish it's not that expensive, and not so "borgy" (not that I mind that much). I would love to have one to help me sometimes, which would make life less miserable when the problem arise.
Parent
Re:Muscle atrophy? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not overweight either (had never been), I weigh 75kg, at 1.78cm tall. So that's pretty ok.
I hate to break it to you, but 75kg is extremely overweight for someone 1.78 cm tall.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
He's a white dwarf you insensitive clod!
I doubt the title (Score:3, Interesting)
The title of the original article says that these exoskeletons may soon become like bicycles. I doubt that and I'm sure that most governments will outlaw them. Whoever wears them could pose a serious threat to the people around him/her and why would anyone wear one for show if not for work (like construction) or fighting (which is illegal) ?
Cyberdyne? (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope their are occupant safty features. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I hope their are occupant safty features. (Score:4, Funny)
Being mind-controlled and all, lets just hope that a beautiful lady doesn't walk past and you subconsiously grab a body part you don't want to be squeezed by a powerful mechanical arm...
Parent
Natural Progression Leads Where? (Score:5, Funny)
Military use:
At first, it's only used to assist in very special cases. Eventually it's perfected and every infantryman has one! Well, that's great. But one day, some 'genius' general is going to say, "Hey, what if we had the suits continue working even AFTER the soldier has died? That'll scare the bejesus out of the enemy!" And he'll get a medal, and some room full of programmers will work on making the suit controllable remotely, with simple commands that allow to act somewhat autonomously. (Stuff like... "Is the soldier dead? Okay, rush the bad guys and scare them")
It works so well, that soon they don't even take the dead soldiers out of the suits until they start to smell pretty bad, which gives away their position. The suit would dig a grave, drop its soldier in it, and run back to base.
Eventually that autonomy will prove so effective, they start allowing portions of it to activate even if the soldier is still alive. ("Not moving fast enough? Here, I'll help." "Hey, orders said go down this street, not that one. Let me help!" "Why aren't you shooting the small people with things shaped like grenades? Let me take care of that for you.") The soldiers will follow orders MUCH more effectively. And even if the suits walk them into death, well, the suits are more durable, and the enemy is more scared of dead walking soldiers, so... yeah.
Corpse armies will soon become the norm, and instead of enlisted soldiers, we'll just start tossing criminals into the suits. Inevitably the criminals would disobey an order (probably given an impossible order right away) and lose 100% control, and just be slaves to the suit until they got shot in combat.
So now we have robot zombie armies fighting each other with reckless disregard, since nobody's really getting killed anyway.
Wow, I just had an awesome idea for a novel.
Re:Natural Progression Leads Where? (Score:5, Funny)
Whats the idea for the novel?
Parent
It is so wrong! (Score:4, Insightful)
I watched the video of the three people walking the streets with leg exoskeletons.
Argh! It just abounds in wrongness! They are all in black, with white exoskeletons. There should be a red one, a blue one and a yellow one or some such! Don't these people watch Sentai shows?
I think somebody is forgetting something. (Score:5, Funny)
With the decrease in actual exercise performed while wearing one of these suits, soon everyone will be too fucking FAT to fit into them.
And another thing...
"Developing story! Epileptic in HAL suit has seizure on subway...18 reported dead. More at 11!"
Something I couldn't quite place... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've posted a few times in this thread in an entirely joking manner, but something I couldn't quite put my finger on has been bothering me about this whole thing. It finally struck me.
I occasionally do a little demonstration to show how the body responds to certain stimuli. You can try it yourself. Stand in a doorway, place the outside of your wrists against the sides of the doorjamb (the door has to be open, idiot), and apply steady, yet heavy pressure outwards with both arms, as if you are trying to do a jumping-jack, but the doorjamb is preventing your arms from going all the way up. Push hard. Hold it, still applying outward pressure, for a count of 60 seconds, then step out of the doorway and just relax, with your arms hanging at your sides. Weird, huh?
Your arms will almost immediately begin raising back into the previous position, outwards, without any intentional effort, almost as if you are in a zero-G environment.
Astronauts experience the exact opposite of this. They do not require much effort to move around, so that when they are suddenly back on Earth, it is very difficult for them to move around. I am not talking about muscle atrophy. That takes much longer to happen. As the previous exercise demonstrates, it takes a mere 60 seconds to condition the body to changes in the environment, yet it takes just as long for it to re-adapt.
Now imagine a soldier in the field. Blastin' away, running hither and yon, jumpin' jack flash, for hours on end, his movements amplified by this crazy borg suit. Suddenly he takes a hit in the powerpack, or it just runs outta juice in the middle of a fire-fight. So what does he do? He takes the fucking thing off, otherwise he is a deadman (or simply laying there like one).
Here is the problem. He is so conditioned to the suit, now it is off, it takes a long time to readjust. He is STILL a sitting duck, blundering around like a 40oz drunk because his muscles/brain are still expecting the suit to be doing most of the work.
This is a bad scenario. He is the Terminator while the battery lasts, and Erkle-the-Wonder-Geek with no body armor when it goes dead.
I think I'd rather hump the 80lb pack around and be able to dump it (and float like a butterfly) when the shit really hit the fan.
Re:Something I couldn't quite place... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure it would make it more difficult to differentiate the real mass of things you lift but its a small price compared to the problem you described.
Parent
Starship Troopers (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd recommend reading "Starship Troopers" by Robert Heinlein, which covers some interesting problems regarding exoskeletons used in combat. The solution of course is to not amplify the soldiers strength unless needed. The suit should simply move with the body in normal situations and only ampify in extreme situations, when the soldier exerts extreme force.
New spam subjects ? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:HAL AND Cyberdyne!? (Score:5, Informative)
Colour me paranoid, but I think the exoskeleton success stories won't be seen in Popular Mechanics until they're already obsolete.
*Yes, I've worked on robotics exoskeletons, and have spoken with other people who develop them.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:HAL AND Cyberdyne!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, outside of the espionage business, I'm not sure I can think of classified military tech that remained secret until obsolescence. Not saying it hasn't happened (we might never know after all), or that they don't do their best to keep stuff secret, but once the grunts get ahold of something, you can bet it'll become common knowledge very quickly.
The stuff that does get kept secret is the stuff that never enters widespread use, or only requires the knowledge of a few highly placed people to deploy. Spy planes and satellites, failed prototypes, software, bioweapons, strategic command and communication systems - those can be hidden. Anything destined for the front lines can't stay secret for long.
Of course, you could have meant the successful prototypes will remain hidden from the public, but you did say "until they're already obsolete", which suggests they've passed the prototype stage, entered production, and fallen behind the curve.
Parent
The joke is in the acronyms (Score:3, Insightful)
Cyberdyne = the fictional company that built Skynet in the Terminator movies
HAL = the computer in "2001: A Space Odyssey"
You're obviously not a science fiction geek ;-)
And I'm surprised that a real company calls itself Cyberdyne and uses HAL as an acronym for a real product. While I appreciate the humor, most companies want reputable sounding rather than funny names. That way, Japanese Cyberdyne is a big exception.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
To top off it off, the article is from h+ magazine [hplusmagazine.com], who covers "technological, scientific, and cultural trends that are changing -- and will change -- human beings in fundamental ways." They are part of Transhumanism movement [wikipedia.org], an "international intellectual and cultural movement supporting the use of science and technology to improve human mental and physical characteristics and capacities."
Sound familiar?
Resistance is futile indeed. Pray Godzilla will save us!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)