The Case For Mandatory Touch-Typing In High School 705
Hugh Pickens writes "With the perspective of forty-plus years since my graduation, I would say the single most useful course I took in high school was a business class in touch-typing that gave me a head start for writing and with computers that I have benefited from my entire life. So it was with particular interest that I read Gordon Rayner's essay in the Telegraph proposing that schools add a mandatory course in touch typing to the cornerstones of education: reading, writing and arithmetic. 'Regardless of the career a child takes up when they leave school, a high percentage of them will use a keyboard in their daily work, and all of them are likely to use a keyboard in their leisure time,' writes Rayner. 'Touch-typing would help every child throughout their lives — so why are our schools so blind to this?'"
That's not really the issue here. (Score:5, Funny)
Say goodbye evolution/creation debate. Say hello keyboard layout wars.
I won't have you teaching my children DVORAK, you left wing hippie! If QWERTY was good enough for our founding fathers, its good enough for us!
Re:That's not really the issue here. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not even the issue.
Children will be typing before they can even understand what evolution is or who Jesus is.
High School? Are they kidding? That's like trying to have mandatory sex education classes for 35 year old people. Maybe useful on /. but hardly far too late for the rest of the world.
Typing is merely an interface to some sort of computerized system. Children learn surprisingly quickly. The other day I saw a 4 year old girl log into a Vista machine, start Firefox, and then *TYPE* the address for some website so she could play a game.
Holy shit. Maybe she was exceptional, I don't know since I am not around kids that often. But, if 4 year old girls are doing it right now, then kids should already be typing experts by high school.
Re: (Score:2)
Most kids I know are. But only when it comes to writing text messages on cellphones.
Maybe that's the keyboard of the future. Hell, they outmatch me (and I can get to over 300 a minute on a well working keyboard) when using one of those cells with an auto-completing dictionary.
Re:That's not really the issue here. (Score:5, Funny)
Or 1:30 if you're German.
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Speed.
Ok, this isn't so much an issue when coding. Hell, ever tried to write C-Code on a German keyboard layout? The brackets you need the most are on Alt-7 and Alt-0. But hardly everyone who comes out of a school will end up writing code. Most will be writing memos, emails, offers, requests and so on. And while I do agree that slowing that flood of junk down would in general help the productivity of most offices, ... umm...
You're right!
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They aren't talking about mandatory 60wpm in order to graduate, but at least push the class on people. I praise Buddha that I didn't learn my dad's way of touch typing, with his "home row" being AWEF JIO;.
It is extremely useful for separating the mechanical task of documenting your thoughts. Most people (seem to) need reinforcement of looking at their words to continue processing thoughts. Dictation requires repetition to be effective.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
With Dvorak, that becomes "'A;,OQ", and what the hell is that supposed to mean?
9:13:38 ~ > grep -i '^[aoeuidhtns]*$' /usr/share/dict/words | wc -l /usr/share/dict/words | wc -l
1991
9:13:45 ~ > grep -i '^[asdfghjkl;]*$'
154
I know which I prefer.
IT Industry (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:IT Industry (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a software engineer who can't touch type. And I can honestly say that learning wouldn't increase my productivity in any measurable way. I don't spend a majority of my day typing. For every minute spent typing I spend at least 15 thinking, debugging, etc. Even giving it a 25% increase (which is more than it's likely to be) would be negligible.
On top of that touch typing just isn't comfortable for many people. I tried learning back in school. Hurt my wrists horribly to try to type like that. I'm pretty sure that touch typing position is the reason so many people get carpal tunnel. What is useful is learning the layout of the keyboard so you don't have to hunt and peck, but actually touch typing and returning to home row after every keypress is horribly overrated.
Re:IT Industry (Score:5, Insightful)
I find people who type faster are more likely to document their work because it takes less time to do so. After all, you've spent all that time thinking, what is it to write a half page summary of what that new module does and why it does it, and why it does it the way it does it? If you're hunting and pecking, it could take you longer to write the summary than it did to think of the code. If you can touch type (or at the very least type faster than 40-50WPM by whatever means), then it's no real burden. After all, if you're spending that much time thinking about your work, then you've already worked out pretty much everything you need to say.
I type 80-90WPM from copy myself, thanks to having taking a touch typing course. Granted, I don't follow 100% proper classroom technique, but I do pretty well. Before that, I was a four-finger typer that did pretty good. I managed 35WPM from copy on my first typing test when I started my touch typing course. That was hard won from typing BASIC programs on my TI home computer as well as any other 80s machine I could get time on.
I enjoy the freedom that touch typing gives me. In the same amount of time I can write much clearer and more complete documentation, clearer, more complete emails, and generally get communication done with and out of the way much more fluidly. I can type almost as fast as I can think. When I was pecking away at 35WPM, I was thinking way faster than I wrote, and so I wrote only the minimum, and ended up with cryptic crud.
*shrug*
Meanwhile, Back in Reality... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a software engineer who can't touch type. And I can honestly say that learning wouldn't increase my productivity in any measurable way.
I'm a software engineer who can touch type. And I can honestly say that not knowing how to touch type would decrease my productivity in a measurable way.
That's anecdotal evidence, by the way.
Let's look at the larger picture here. You're correct that the "typing" part only makes up part of what a software engineer does. I'd say about 25-50% of my time is spent typing (not only code, also documentation, e-mails, blog posts on the internal company blog, wiki updates, etc.). Wikipedia says:
An average professional typist reaches 50 to 70 wpm, while some positions can require 80 to 95 (usually the minimum required for dispatch positions and other time-sensitive typing jobs), and some advanced typists work at speeds above 120.
Two-finger typists, sometimes also referred to as "hunt and peck" typists, commonly reach sustained speeds of about 37 wpm for memorized text, and 27 wpm when copying text but in bursts may be able to reach up to 60 to 70 wpm.
So let's say it's 60 wpm for touch typing (I know I'm quite a bit faster than that, but we want to go with averages) and 37 wpm for two-finger typing.
So, considering all this data: We probably spend about a third of our work time typing, and touch typing is on average roughly 1.6 times as fast as two-finger typing. For an 8-hour work day, that results in 2.7 hours of typing, of which roughly one hour is "wasted" for two-finger typers.
I'd say one hour each day is a measurable increase (or decrease) in productivity.
On top of that touch typing just isn't comfortable for many people.
Then many people learned it wrongly.
Hurt my wrists horribly to try to type like that.
Then your position is incorrect. You really should have learned how to touch type properly :-)
Re:IT Industry (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IT Industry (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a software engineer who can't touch type. And I can honestly say that learning wouldn't increase my productivity in any measurable way.
Logically the only way this can be true is if you think slower than you type, in which case, sorry, you may not be the best software engineer out there. I easily type 120wpm and it is still far too slow for me, whether it's coding or writing English (documents, slashdot posts, e-mails) I think much faster than I type, typing is *the* primary bottleneck in my work ... if I could type 500 wpm my productivity would go through the roof.
Re:IT Industry (Score:4, Insightful)
He said software engineer, not code monkey. I can spend two hours tweaking 20 lines of code cause that's where all the logic takes place. If thinking up your code is anywhere near as fast as typing it, you must be a code monkey. As for the rest, my leet vim skills matter a lot more than my two-finger 80 wpm typing.
For a software engineer typing speed matters about as much as car/bicycle aerodynamics for a mailman.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Logically the only way this can be true is if you think slower than you type, in which case, sorry, you may not be the best software engineer out there.
It looks like you didn't take the time to think through your logic before you jumped to this conclusion!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Even giving it a 25% increase (which is more than it's likely to be) would be negligible.
Tell ya what, let's call it a 10% increase. I'll go home every Friday at noon while you stay until 5:00.
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Yes, thinking easily takes 15x the time of doing it. First you design a piece of code (which may include typing up a design document, or may not depending on the size of the project). There's research if it's non-trivial. I do a lot of cross OS porting to proprietary OSes, so I'm frequently reading docs to find the functionality I need and to make sure the corner cases match up to the way our core code thinks it will, or thinking up ways to make the corner cases work if they don't natively. When the cod
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I may have genetics against me- my father did have carpal tunnel, bad enough to have surgery in the 80s. Which didn't well, but that's another story. My current method of typing (which tends to use 4 fingers and no home row return) gets me above 50 wpm when I'm trying, a little less if I'm stalling as I think of how to word something. So I'm happy with how it is. If I really wanted to improve my productivity (I don't really care to at the moment) there's far larger targets.
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If you need it, you'll know it (Score:4, Insightful)
I had mandatory touch-typing in middle school (6th-8th grades) and it was worthless. I didn't learn a thing - I typed slowly and uncomfortably.
Then one day, I decided I wanted to learn to program computers. I taught myself C, and halfway through the project discovered that I had become a pretty good touch typist. Typing is a skill like riding a bike - you'll learn it by doing it. Forcing it on kids (who would rather be taking another, more meaningful course but can't because their schedule is full of crap) is only going to make them resent it.
Just because something is valuable doesn't mean public education has to teach it. As I student, I can say that the room in our schedules is finite, and if it's both useful and easy (like typing) we'll get it on our own, we don't need it taking up scarce time slots.
Re:If you need it, you'll know it (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been working with computers over ten years now, and playing with them since elementary school. I'm a programmer by trade, and I don't touch type.
Sure, I don't at the keyboard, but my typing technique could be way better. I'm using two-three fingers per hand, plus thumbs.
I've been trying to use the exellent Klavaro ( http://klavaro.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net] ) to improve my skill, there has been some progress but nothing huge. I can't be bothered quite enough.
I for one would have been grateful to have been force-fed the basics all those years back. I'm not saying it's the only option, I type fairly fast, but it's hard to unlearn all that muscle memory and use all fingers even if I'd want to.
Re:If you need it, you'll know it (Score:5, Insightful)
I can honestly say that teaching myself to touch-type early on (17 odd years ago) was the single-best, most valuable investment I ever made in my programmer career. It's been critical to my productivity and thus success (on a bad day I type over 100 wpm). I'm all for more of this in schools; apart from being a genuinely valuable skill, it would also reduce 'ppl lazly tpng lk this lol', and encourage more kids to write properly in general - and being able to write properly has strong links to being able to think properly.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I certainly benefited a lot from having it required in my school -- two consecutive years, in fact. I was always a bit mystified that my computer-geek friends, who planned on writing programs for a living, just slacked off in class and didn't even bother (and now program with just two fingers on each hand). Maybe the teacher didn't motivate students well enough, who knows. Maybe it was because the school still had mechanical typewriters. :-)
There are some things that kids don't like when they're young,
That would be a disaster! (Score:2, Funny)
Think about how much it would hurt their texting speed to have to work on a layout as large as a full-sized keyboard.
I don't type very fast. (Score:5, Funny)
Touch typing is irrelevant (Score:4, Insightful)
Touch typing classes were MUCH more relevant in the days when correction tape was used and it meant that important papers would have to be completely retyped when there was a mistake. Alternately, it was important when correction tape or white out was actually a major office expense. Both of these issues are entirely irrelevant today.
If you want to push for something, how about hand writing classes since there are massive numbers of people that after leaving high school use a pen or pencil for little more than writing their names or doodling a picture on their notepad during a meeting. Penmanship is at an all-time low. Boys who were classically bad writers to begin with are probably unlikely to be able to read their own writing anymore. Girls are the new boys, their handwriting is deplorable as well now.
An even better idea, how about mandatory short-hand classes so that when people do not have computers available to them (for example in meetings) will be able to write in some for or another that allows them to take accurate notes and still read it afterwards when they're back in front of their computers. It's been around since the days of Caesar, believed to have been invented by Cicero's manservant Marcus Tullius Tiro and yet, while being a most efficient form of writing is still barely used outside of court rooms.
People who need to learn to type will learn on their own. On top of that, it's rare that you encounter a high school student these days that can't manage at least 30 words per minute. Their greatest flaw is no longer in typing speed, but the fact that even with a spell checker, they can't spell for shit. Let's not forget that spell checkers don't cover things like They're Their and There.
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Typing speed is what matters. I've never taken a single touch typing class, and with the exception of knowing what the two notches on the F and J keys are there for, I have little idea of what finger is for what key. The result? I type at 90+ words per minute and have extremely high accuracy.
I had no idea what the notches on the F and J keys were for, but now that you mentioned them in this context they make perfect sense. Thanks.
Re:Touch typing is irrelevant (Score:4, Insightful)
In the 1970's I took a typing class before the PC was invented and on the market. Computers were on the way, but just a novelty in the hobby market. The class was filled with typewriters with all blank keys. You touch type or else. This was great as it started me typing without looking at the keys. I very quickly learned to find the keys with the notches. Correction tape was a pain.
The biggest problem now is not QWERTY vs Dorvak, it's the layout of the rest of the keys. This is highly non-standard. Using multiple keyboards as I move about home and factory, the delete and escapse keys are located everywhere from top left to the key cluster between the numeric pad to in the numeric pad to stuffed down by the Windows key on either side. In short, they could be anywhere except in the middle of the regular typing keys.
My favorite keyboard overall is the old IBM klacky keyboard without the Windows key. It's one of the few keyboards that doesn't have a sticky spacebar. Way too many keyboards have a wide space bar that won't press down unless you hit it directly in the middle. Having to go back and insert missing spaces cuts typing speed.
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I still had mandatory shorthand courses (yes, I'm THAT old!). It didn't do much for me. Even during my university time, I usually either had a computer with me (and my typing skill beats my shorthand any time) or there wasn't much to be written.
Kids these days would probably just replace it with cells and text their notes. I've seen them text. Some of them can probably outmatch a court stenographer.
Re:Touch typing is irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)
You'd be surprised. Touch-typing doesn't just teach "how to type fast and accurately", it also teaches "how to type with minimum strain on your hands/wrists".
If this hasn't affected you, you're lucky. If this has, you know exactly what I mean.
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The result? I type at 90+ words per minute and have extremely high accuracy.
So? I did learn to touch-type properly, and easily type at 120 wpm with high accuracy ... much faster than 90, every hour of every day, imagine how much that extra speed adds up - why diss touch-typing?
Touch typing classes were MUCH more relevant in the days when correction tape was used and it meant that important papers would have to be completely retyped when there was a mistake.
Actually, the main issue was that you could type blind (in fact it used to also be commonly called "blind typing", but maybe that isn't Politically Correct enough these days?) --- so secretaries could retype documents without taking their eyes off the source document.
People who need to learn to type will learn on their own
Ha ha, right ... tell that to half of the
Equal time (Score:5, Funny)
They don't do that already? (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was in elementary school, we went to the computer lab a couple days a week and were forced to use the PAWS typing tutor software on the Apple IIe. Is it really that case that there are still schools that don't teach this? Also, based on my experience, I don't think we should wait until high school to teach people to type. Elementary school seems like the right place, as children are learning to read and write, why not learn to type too?
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DVORAK? (Score:3, Interesting)
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I don't see the need for DVORAK. Sure, you might be able to type faster in case you are writing plain English. But that's not very useful to me, because I'm either programming (which isn't plain english) or typing Dutch or English. Adopting DVORAK doesn't benefit my any more or less than QWERTY. (Well, maybe less because certain keys I often use in programming are now on harder to reach locations).
Anyway... DVORAK seems to focus on people writing more text. But instead people should write less text with a h
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What programming language isn't mostly plain English (or some other language)? Most keywords are English words, as are most function and variable names. So are all the comments.
I type much more English (comments, documentation, emails, IM chat, posting to Slashdot) than code.
(I don't know how well Dvorak would work with Dutch, but it's very unlikely to be worse than Qwerty.)
good idea but wrong age (Score:5, Informative)
Teaching children touch-typing is an excellent idea, but high school is much too late. Even junior high school kids have reports to write, and still younger kids are using computers. Touch-typing should be taught in elementary school. As far as the curriculum is concerned, grade five or six would probably be alright, but it might need to be earlier to prevent kids from fossilizing bad two-finger habits.
I went to an unusual school that taught touch-typing in grade six back in 1968. We didn't have personal computers then, but for me it was a godsend as I have awful handwriting. Judging from my experience in that school, sixth graders have no difficulty learning touch typing.
Re:good idea but wrong age (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed! I took a Scheidegger touchtyping course when I was around 10 years old, on one of ye olde electric typewriters, and it turns out that it is one of the most useful things I ever learned. Well, math and spelling are very useful too, of course, but touchtyping is a skill that has served me throughout my professional life.
The problem is that in elementary school, most teachers don't know how to touch type, so how could they teach the children? The teachers should be taught first!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless you're 13 right now, this has absolutely no relevance. Computers have invaded our society at an amazing rate in the last 20 years. Typewriters were not very useful for elementary and middle school students, unlike computers. It doesn't surprise me a bit that you didn't use them... -When you were a kid.-
Today is different, and that is what this discussion is about.
We're not getting off your lawn.
Education vs Vocation (Score:2)
I'm in my early 30's so I may be old fashioned, but I thought school was about providing an education, not about vocational skills.
In any case, if you do end up using a computer, how many of those jobs will require a high wpm count? - Probably only the secretarial type jobs. So let secretarial college teach this.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
the IRC typing course (Score:2)
But NOT Qwety, and NOT on "normal" keyboards! (Score:4, Funny)
I don't want their hands to be crippled before they start their first job!
I wouldn't accept anything less than this: http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm [datahand.com]
With a adapted proper layout like DVORAK, or for German keyboards NEO ( http://www.neo-layout.org/ [neo-layout.org] Because compared to this, DVORAK looks like a bad joke of inside-the-box thinking ^^).
Mandatory? Really? (Score:2)
Won't kids learn to type anyway? By the time I was forced to take typing class by my smugly progressive high school in the 1980s I had already taught myself to type. I had a different method (and still do) and resisted the home-key touch-typing method, with the result that I scored poorly in typing class. This was despite the fact that I can type accurately at 90wpm.
Perhaps there are some kids who haven't had much keyboard exposure who would benefit from it, but for those who have and use computers at hom
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Ya, and homerow bullshit is the cause of much of the hand crippling RSI that people experience. It's sad that something so obvious as "that's not natural" has to be argued for.
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I've been typing most of the day for 35 years and my hands are fine. All I needed to know was "watch your posture and keep your wrists straight," which my mother told me in about 15 seconds. Not worth a slot that could be used for an actual class on something important.
Yes they should, and do. (Score:2)
This was mandatory in my first year of high school(8-12). It only took a few weeks and was rolled into either the fine arts elective or the everything else course(sex ed, woodwork, cooking, sewing, etc).
Touch Typing could be taught in Elementary School but when I was there the computers were older than the students. The school could have taught touch typing on apple 2s but it did not.
Of course, maybe children are just learning this on their own or from family members now. I was managing to type a few "paper
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What, First let's teach them to Breath. (Score:2, Insightful)
How can you forget this most basic of requirements. Don't you know most children will spend the rest of their lives breathing? Some do it professionally, but others do it socially.
Given how important this is for the rest of their lives, let's have a 2 semester course on breathing!
Did I mention eating? How about Viewing?
Typing's the same... It's a subset of communications...
You don't need to teach people how to type. You need to teach them what to type... They'll figure out how to do it themselves and if tou
I'm all for this, under one condition: (Score:4, Interesting)
Bottom line is, they need to be learning things in some sort of a sequence so that they can build on what they already know. My opinion is they should go with it as follows:
I am well aware the article talks about teaching this at the high school level, but from what I've seen, it doesn't improve much. When I was in high school, there were juniors and seniors who could barely read, and their handwriting may as well have been from Omicron Persei 8 for how legible it was. We need to make sure kids have a handle on the basic skills BEFORE they get to high school. If we can manage that, I'm pretty sure most will pick up typing quite well on their own.
Re:I'm all for this, under one condition: (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait a minute. You want schools to teach what? (Score:2)
stunned (Score:4, Interesting)
LoB
Reflection of Ueslessness of Pre-university school (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
This is true.
In the US anyway, schools continue to NOT advance with using computers in the classroom--mainly becuase textbook publishers steadfastly refuse to make fully-electronic versions of their materials available.
Additionally--a lot of people won't need typing much, and those that will use it a
Meh. (Score:2)
I never learned how to type.
To this day, I use an advanced form of hunt-and-peck, where I don't look at the keys but I cross my fingers in odd ways sometimes and I definitely never use home position.
For the last ten years or so, I've made my living as a writer. So go figure.
And besides, this seems like an odd idea to have now. Isn't it the old parents' lament that their kids always know how to use the computer ten times better than they do? How do you get to be fluent on a computer without knowing how to us
1992 (Score:3, Insightful)
sure, along with calculus and track (Score:2)
Not everyone can learn to touch type; you either have the necessary talent,
or you don't. Why penalize students who cannot touch type when it just isn't
that useful or necessary, just like calculus and 10-sec 100 meter dash.
I've been a programmer for longer than I care to remember. I took typing
in high school, but never managed to be a touch typist (I memorize enough
at a glance to keep my fingers busy for copying and compose on the fly for
text and programming). I also took calculus in high school (and coll
typing class in jr high in late 1970s (Score:3, Insightful)
I've been employed as a programmer almost continuously since that time; I did contract programming work while I was in high school. Learning to touch type made me much more productive than I'd been before the class. Over the years my typing speed has dramatically improved; the last time I checked it was over 100 wpm, though my accuracy hasn't improved nearly as much.
I think any student that doesn't take a typing class in junior high or high school is doing himself or herself quite a disservice. It's a valuable skill even for someone that doesn't need it for a job. I suspect that it's probably easier to learn typing the earlier you do it.
Re:typing class in jr high in late 1970s (Score:5, Interesting)
In the late 1970s I took a typing class in junior high school. Boys were actually discouraged from taking typing, so there were only a few other boys in the class. Despite the speed and accuracy requirements to pass the class being quite low, I barely passed, and the teacher advised me that I should never take a job requiring typing skills.
I learned about the same time, but my experience was a bit different. I opted to take a typing class that was advertised as "business somethingorother" to prepare girls for future careers as secretaries. My reasons for taking the class were twofold. First, that's where the girls were, so what better place to meet one? Second, certain classes required that term papers be typed and not hand-written. I wasn't about to sit at home and do the hunt and peck routine so typing class it was.
I met lots of girls, of course. The problem was I typed faster than most of them, so they resented me. The more "interesting" girls were hanging around outside smoking cigarettes, anyway. ;-)
When computers came along, I felt right at home. My typing, same as you, has gotten better over the years. Funny how far learning proper technique can take you.
Best class I ever took? Absolutely. And seeing how poorly people type on keyboards today, and listening to all the "ergonomic" complaints and excuses, I'd suggest that all kids be forced to take a typing class (and preferrably on a manual typewriter where they can discover the value of technique). Whether they grow up to work as secretaries or programmers, doesn't matter. Most all jobs (auto mechanics included) involve using a keyboard for part of the work day. And for non-working hours, how can anyone find or get porn effectively without being able to type?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I took typing in my freshman year of high school. I was planning ahead and figured it would be a useful skill in college. The class was taught on old manual typewriters. To this day I am very rough on computer keyboards because of the pressure I had to use on those old keyboards.
It was the single most useful class of my entire four years of high school.
touch-typing = tyranny (Score:5, Insightful)
I started out as kids do, performing simple hunt'n'peck maneuvers. By the time I hit high-school it was well ingrained. At age 19, I wrote a novel of over 1,000,000 characters over a 1.5 year period, averaging four hours a day of just typing. That burned the keyboard layout into me (I would -never- go DVORAK).
Even now, I don't even have to look at the keyboard to type near perfectly, long as my wrists remain still on the rest I don't lose my place. I can even type just as perfectly with my eyes closed or in a dark room by centering on the F and J keys to start. My style is now a mastered form of hunt'n'peck, hunt'n'peck taken to the Nth degree, massively improved through perfect memorization of the keyboard layout and ingrained muscle-memory, such that I can type now about 80 words per minute. It's simply 'think and the words are typed' at this point, as natural as speaking or writing with a pen.
There came a time once that I thought I should improve my typing speed by learning to do real touch-typing the way professional typists must learn. So, I picked up a 'teach me typing' program, and diligently went through the courses for quite some time. I think it was 'Mario Teaches Typing' :P It had which finger you were supposed to use and all that jazz, and I did what it asked to the letter. Used the proper fingers, and arranged my hands as asked.
Only one hitch: my hands began to hurt, a lot. I noticed there was a large amount of unnatural stretching and contortion compared to my mastered hunt'n'peck method in order to reach the key with the 'proper finger', the one the program demanded I use. Now, I didn't simply give up, I wanted to master this technique, I was committed. But, after a month of daily practice I couldn't take it anymore. I was nearly as fast while touch-typing, but my hands were killing me.
I realized then why typists get carpel-tunnel syndrome and the like. Dogmatic touch-typing it terrible for your hands! You need to be able to relax your hands as your type, not stretch and contort them unnaturally. I went back to my freestyle typing and never looked back.
My typing can realistically be called freestyle because, based on what combination of letters and words I'm typing, it could be any number of fingers that are available at the moment to type that key. The difference is, I know I have to hit that key, and it happens quite naturally. I don't use my pinkies to type at all (well, maybe to hit shift), but I use everything else. That's probably the difference between my speed and a professional typist, since 80 WPM isn't really something to sneeze at but a pro typist can hit 50% faster.
But, now I'm attempting to turn myself into a professional author, and typing has become my primary skill, my devotion, my life. I'm glad I never took the touch-typing route! I'm quite certain that I will never develop carpel tunnel or repetitive strain injuries because my hands are relaxed, my fingers don't contort, and typing is done in perfectly natural motion. No overextended fingers, no awkward combinations. No pain.
That's my experience. That's the wisdom I've gained.
I'm the lazy one.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I learned 2 different touch typing systems so far (QWERTY and Dvorak). Why?, because I'm unbelievably lazy. QWERTY was the obvious first choice, Dvorak was the improvement on it as I had to put in even less effort for typing after I learned it.
Oh, and by the way, no school thought me this back then. I so dream of the day when schools start to do comprehensive education for life, but I guess that won't ever happen.
Anyway, I'll never understand people, who sit in front of a screen 8 hours a day and use the 2 finger search system for typing. Seems so infinitely more work intensive. But non adaptive people still love to it.
I agree 100% (Score:4, Interesting)
I've kept trying to tell my own kids that out of all the classes I took in HS, typing has helped me the most.
Sure math and english were important, don't get me wrong, but the typing helped the most.
BWP
My MOM was this smart in 1963... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was in grade 10 in 1972, but my brothers, 7 and 9 years older, got the same treatment: forced to take "Typing 10" in a nearly all-girl classroom when the only point to it was as a first course towards a secretarial career. In my case, they'd turned it into a full-year course, the second half of which was beyond just typing and into various formats for business letters, filing systems, and so on. I got bored and managed to drop out after taking a test (51%, whew).
Mom's point was that typing was a generally useful skill, like being able to hammer nails. She wasn't thinking we'd become secretaries, just able to type our college papers without pain. She'd taken touch-typing in the 40's and never been a secretary but never regretted it.
Electric typewriters were still rare in 1972, the Apple ][ still in the future, so how much less excuse is there now for not calling it a "basic skill"? For me, it's been huge. A lot of IT work is very verbose and repetitive; I do SQL all day long some days, with tiresome table/column names like INFRANET_SW.WTR_HYDRANT.WH_VALVE_DIRECTION. (Or, yes, I can take my hands from the keyboard, move the mouse to the panel that's the list of tables, scroll down to the hydrant table, click on it, look down the column-panel for the column name, and click...which takes at least as long...if you touch type; or much longer than typing if you don't).
Re:Schools dont change (Score:4, Insightful)
First, we'd have to begin to get rid of the lecture method with all it's crotchety old proponents who over-emphasize the main learning stream while under-emphasizing the alternatives.
Then we'd have to rebuild education metholodogy to suit the 21st century. I'd say we're a few generations behind.
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Interesting)
Touch-typing is a drop in the bucket. First, we'd have to begin to get rid of the lecture method with all it's crotchety old proponents who over-emphasize the main learning stream while under-emphasizing the alternatives. Then we'd have to rebuild education metholodogy to suit the 21st century. I'd say we're a few generations behind.
Agreed.
When you take a better look at it, our education system has just been adding more of the same. My grandmother took four years of obligatory education (this was in Yugoslavia, now Croatia; YGMMMV). My parents and I took eight years of primary school. The current government, may it burn in seven hells, wants to make the first twelve years of education obligatory.
The worst part is that the second four years of education are rather alike the first four, albeit with several new subjects, i.e. some old subjects diverging into several new ones. To top it all, the four years of current secondary education are just a rehash of the second four years of primary education.
The system's efficiency is dropping steadily and steeply; teachers are out of touch with current technologies, and those who train teachers are even worse. The school system has increasingly less connection to both the real world and to its basic purpose, i.e. teaching. Instead, schools' primary purpose is becoming something quite different: keep the children trapped in the system, and keep young people at children's level for as long as possible.
Touch typing would be a giant step forward in any education system since a primary skill would be taught. However, I abhor the idea of such a skill being graded, as it usually happens with anything taught in schools.
BTW curious tidbit just crossed my mind: instead of teaching touch typing, Croatian schools recently reintroduced calligraphy. Instead of learning normal cursive script (joined-up writing), first-graders are taught old-style calligraphy. The fact that practically no-one uses a pen these days seems to have escaped the 19th century educators.
Bloody morons.
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Insightful)
Has calculus changed in the last 150 years?
Has English changed (aside from a handful of grammar constructs, a few words, etc.) in the last 50?
Does addition work differently that it did in the 15 century?
Adding new teaching methods is a good idea if they work and help learning. i.e. putting full color 3-D graphs of certain functions in calc. books.
But adding new technology is bad if it isn't used correctly. i.e. putting "smartboards", projectors, etc. in every classroom. No teacher knows how to use them, they are all required to use them, and student learning completely stops. Sitting in class for 20 minutes because the teacher can't get the computer to talk to the projector HARMS learning.
Unfortunately, every time anyone tries to put "technology" into public schools, it fails miserably. Students are much better off taking notes from a lecture written on a chalkboard than watching a presentation bluescreen for the third time this week.
People are very quick to say "TEACHERS ARE OUT OF DATE!", but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The material being taught hasn't changed because IT STILL WORKS LIKE IT DID BACK THEN!
The other argument is that classes are "less relevant" to today's students. This is really just another way of saying "students are lazy and without spinning animations on screen every 5 seconds they start to daydream". Calculus is just as relevant to students now as it was to students 50 years ago (depending on choice of profession, this may be a lot or a little). But putting the fundamental theorem on calculus or on "these new-fangled interwebs" doesn't result in better learning over seeing it on a chalkboard.
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Interesting)
But adding new technology is bad if it isn't used correctly. i.e. putting "smartboards", projectors, etc. in every classroom. No teacher knows how to use them, they are all required to use them, and student learning completely stops. Sitting in class for 20 minutes because the teacher can't get the computer to talk to the projector HARMS learning.
My sister was one of the first teachers around here to get those. She actually knows how to use it, and uses it to great effect.
Of course, I was the one who helped set it up, and figure out how it all works. Now that she knows, she teaches all the other teachers as best as she can.
She's a bright one, though. Most of the other teachers don't grasp things like this as quickly as she does. (thats what happens when both your parents are engineering-type people)
The sad bit, though?
The whole school has a single tech to support them. And they have to submit requests in through the county, to get the help.
The teachers ask me for help via my sister, since it takes almost a month for it to go through the proper channels.
It's not the teachers or the technology that is at fault. It's the administrative systems that are attached to them.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Cry me a river. If a teacher can't figure out how to connect something like that themselves, they're probably a lousy teacher. Lack of curiosity shows in traits such as "I don't know how
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The teacher that ordered it was rather technophile, for a teacher at least. Though also a little older, not quite up to date with current technology. However, when he tried to use it in class, he ran into all kind of problems. The software required a later version of Internet Explorer than was installed on that presumably vanilla Win2k that was supposed to run the thing. Not that it said so outright, i
Both sides are wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
If they're busy taking notes, they're not learning. They're just stenographers at that point.
The first thing I did when I taught computers (grades 4 to 6) was tell the students that we weren't going to be using the computers. At first, they were disappointed - but I made the discussions (note - discussion, NOT lectures) inte
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Right. We do not need factory workers any more. The Chinese can do that. We need to train people for unemployment.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Dropped out of HS in 1975, I get about 35wpm with 2 fingers. Boys were not allowed to take typing or cooking classes. Girls were not allowed to take wood/metal-work or mechanical drawing classes.
Re:Watch Mad Men (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, I kinda forgot about that. I graduated in 1974. I took typing as an elective, and I was one of only two boys in the class. We caught hell, because the jocks thought it was effeminate. Today, I guess all of those jocks search for their porn with the old tried and true hunt-and-peck method. That sure slows a guy down, I imagine. Learning to type was probably the best move I made in high school. In the Navy, I was able to sit in an office and fill out forms in a minute or two, that other people spent 10, 15, even 30 minutes doing by hand. That ability got me INTO the office, where I was able to sit on my butt while other people chipped paint, carried supplies, swabbed the decks, etc.
Today, our local school system has "keyboarding" classes. The kids know how to do things with a keyboard that I never wanted to do. I still don't know what those 16 extra keys are supposed to do on my own keyboard - I'm perfectly happy with a standard 102 key! :^(
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That reminds me of the plaque I saw on the desk of my tax preparers secretary. "Do you want to talk to the man in charge, or the woman who knows what's going on?".
Re:Grammar of Speech & Writing (Score:3, Interesting)
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to change their style of grammar from a classically respected form but tricky for modern people to understand when spoken, a decent respect for honest questions like yours posted on slashdot the land of the lost digital volcano of forgotten memes, a decent respect for the considerations of linguistic theory and etiquette impels us to declare the reasons for the modernization of grammar.
.
I trust you got the reference. That's great fun to
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Insightful)
The length of compulsory government education for children has steadily increased since it began as it was always the intention of the creators and maintainers of it to remove the task of raising children from parents to the child rearing "experts" (aka themselves). This in their own words was to ensure that children were moulded to requirements of industry and enlightened society without parents interfering and undoing all their hard work.
That is not in anyway a secret to anyone who has a cursory knowledge of the history of Compulsory Education.
Not to mention most of primary school now is purely social indoctrination and almost no hard academics is taught until fourth grade.
If you believe students are learning more than they did 50 years you're living in an *absolute* fantasy land.
The fourth grade curriculum had children reading and understanding Shakespeare and de-constructing poetry. Being able to do advanced multiplication and division in their heads was compulsory (my mums books from primary school look just like my high school books, my eight year old boys third grade books look like my kindergarten books).
The school system educates children just fine by the way, you just have to understand what exactly it is that they are being taught.
Understanding starts here: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm [johntaylorgatto.com]
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Insightful)
Touch-typing is a drop in the bucket.
Agreed. Since most people can't write, there's no point in having them touch type.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed. Since most people can't write, there's no point in having them touch type.
How on earth does this follow? In my daily life I type an incredible amount; emails, online chat, code, slashdot and other forum posts... in comparison I probably write no more than 50 words a week on paper using a pen. I know that if I had to choose one of the two skills to retain while I permanently forgot the other ("You are attempting to learn the skill 'Threesome'. Both your skill slots are full. You must choose one of the following skills to forget: (1) Typing (2) Handwriting") then I'd far rather kee
Re:Schools dont change (Score:4, Interesting)
An interesting side-bar:
I have a friend who suffered brain trauma. He lost his ability to speak and write (aphasia). He could understand everything spoken to him. The unusual aspect of this injury is that his ability to communicate via typing was unharmed (this came out during a PT session using computers). He couldn't remember how to join words with a pen -- he couldn't remember how to say words to form a sentance -- but he could read and type. He could also read out loud. He keeps canned phrases on his phone which he'll read off.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Touch-typing is a drop in the bucket.
Agreed. Since most people can't write, there's no point in having them touch type.
Judging by the replies to your post, most folks can't read so well either. To prevent more people from making fools of themselves, Fred A's post should probably be understood as "Since most people can't produce content that is worth writing about, teaching them touch typing will only increase the rate at which they can expel the offal that is their literary contributions."
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I was about to write this. It wasn't in the curriculum 30 years ago, so it is not needed. Oh, sure, we caught up and teach now the Vietnam war in history (not instead of other junk but on top of it), but new courses? Get real. We're glad if we don't drop courses because the budget gets cut away again and again.
Besides, how much typing skill do those dropouts need to carry a gun around?
Re:Schools dont change (Score:4, Insightful)
the last thing you want in the front line is to be on the receiving end of a "typo" when someone has keyed the wrong coordinates in for an artillery mission or airstrike...
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Insightful)
Wasn't in the curriculum 30 years ago?
Nonsense. Was too.
It was an optional class in my high school, and it was full of girls, so I took it so I could sit next to HER.
The touch typing is still with me to this day, but I haven't thought about HER for 29 years, until just now.
It was the single most valuable class I took in High School.
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Funny)
It was the single most valuable class I took in High School.
...for one handed typing?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Most people learn to touch type by age 12. If you don't figure it out by age 18 then it's pretty likely you won't ever need that skill. Driving lessons aren't mandatory, but people who need it learn how to drive anyways. I'm sorry, but this is probably one of the dumbest slashdot articles I've ever seen.
Re:Schools dont change (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I taught myself to type, and I type at 100 wpm. I use all my fingers, just not in the ridiculously formal way touch typing is taught.
I'd say of all the replies, you're probably closest to my style. I did a 3 month typing course in first year high school, then promptly forgot it all. Later when I finally had regular use of a computer, I found myself typing with my fingers on the home row. A while later I found out by accident that I really didn't need to look at the keyboard while I typed. I've tested myself at 90wpm but I tend to type slower if I'm not transcribing (and infinitely faster if I am - gogo copy/paste :P ) because the bottlen
Re:Schools dont change (Score:5, Funny)
I do not (repeat do NOT) use the "home keys"
I can understand getting away with not using the ';', but this post itself contains all the home keys.
You must be some kind of savant.
Re: (Score:3)
I do not (repeat do NOT) use the "home keys"
I can understand getting away with not using the ';', but this post itself contains all the home keys.
You must be some kind of savant.
Maybe he's holding down ALT while using the numeric keypad to input ASCII/ANSI codes?
Top Row Retort (Score:5, Funny)
>>I do not (repeat do NOT) use the "home keys"
>I can understand getting away with not using the ';', but this post itself contains all the home keys.
I tore out type ere I wrote, to type up top:
upper typewriter row, pert repertoire.
Reporter, I quote to you: To write, pop type out.
Retire typewriter row two. Your tri-row?
Rip it out, too. Tour your top row territory.
Queer tip, you retort? I worry your poor typewriter?
To torque it out -- typewriter terror?
You require row two, your tri-row prop?
You pout, try to quip. (Poor etiquette.) You titter.
(Poorer propriety.) You utter uppity output?
Quiet, you! Quit it! You purport to write.
I tire to peer to your rot, your petty writ,
to eye your wire report. You write pyrite,
terrier to torpor. I pity you, preppie yuppie.
I tutor you, tyro, to uproot your trite tree,
put type to pyre. Rupture type. Write to write.
I erupt. I riot. I prototype pure power
to write. I, upper typewriter requiter.
I outwit you, too. To perpetuity, I write poetry.
You, to put it true, putter out rote poop.
(with regards to Nick Montfort [nickm.com])
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't start using keyboards seriously until I was 8 (I had played with my mom's typewriter before that, but doubt I picked up any real speed there) and my experiences are much the same as yours. I spent a few years doing temp work after college and consistently tested in the upper-60s wpm on their tests, occasionally getting astonished comments from the temp agency's workers that I'd completed the test so quickly and with so few errors.
Also like you, I spend many hours a day on a keyboard and have never
Re: (Score:2)
and within 5 years I had recognized that the single most important course I took was a half-semester of typing
seriously, your school must have sucked.
Re:Another stupid obsolescent idea (Score:5, Informative)
OK, let me get this straight --- your reasoning is basically "I was taught some skills in school that are now obsolete, therefore touch-typing is obsolete"?
Similarly with touch typing.
Are you stark raving mad? Do you have any idea how many people have to use computers at work on a daily basis? Unlike tabulation machines, there's a keyboard on almost every desk in the world these days - yet you equate the two, and get modded up!? And most of the users type painfully badly ... imagine every single one of them could type better, faster, more efficiently. Yeah, totally obsolete and useless.
Re:Another stupid obsolescent idea (Score:5, Funny)
OK, let me get this straight --- your reasoning is basically "I was taught some skills in school that are now obsolete, therefore touch-typing is obsolete"?
No, the purpose of a modern American school, at least in part, is to teach obsolete middle class skills as rich peoples hobbies, so a school teaching touch typing would be a strong indicator that most computer usage is or soon will be obsolete.
The educational theory is for the middle class, based on worship of the upper class lifestyle, while confusing cause and effect. A quick summary of the theory would be that only rich people can afford to learn "useless" skills for fun, therefore if you learn useless skills, you'll become rich.
Example of typical middle class education primary revolving around obsolete skills that are only useful for rich people's hobbies, thus if you have the time to waste to learn them, you must be rich, aspirational, etc:
1) Music classes - Musician used to be a middle class lifestyle, before the recording cartel/industry/complex took it over. Now only rich people can afford to focus on music.
2) Art classes - See all that "decorative americana junk" at the walmart, craft store, etc, made in China, to decorate our walls? Middle class people in the USA used to make "decorative artistic americana junk" and sell it to each other but now its all imported from China.
3) Wood shop classes - Furniture carpenter used to be a middle class american job, before it went to China and/or Amish.
4) The whole concept of the steam whistle coordinating the middle class worker at the factory assembly line. All that has gone to China except for their kids responding to bells/buzzers at school.
5) Political Science / Government used to be something middle class folks needed to know, but now the TV tells them all they need to know about politics, or at least the last TV commercial they saw is the only thing that affects them. The only reason for middle class folks to learn about it is to participate (if you are in the oligarchy and have a last name like Kennedy or Bush or Clinton) or as an idle hobby in your spare time.