Mixed Conclusions About Powerline Networking vs. Ham Radio 343
Barence writes "Since writing about the success he's had with powerline networking, a number of readers emailed PC Pro's Paul Ockendon to castigate him for recommending these products, such as HomePlug. They were all amateur radio enthusiasts, claiming the products affect their hobby in much the same way that urban lighting affects amateur astronomers, but rather than causing light pollution they claim powerline networking causes radio pollution in the HF band (otherwise known as shortwave). Paul's follow-up feature, 'Does powerline networking nuke radio hams?' documents his investigation into these claims, which found evidence to support both sides of an intriguing debate."
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:1, Interesting)
It's a volunteer emergency communications organisation.
However, the FCC rules are pretty weird. Like all Part 15 devices, your radio may not cause interference and must accept all interference. However, its status as a licensed service gives it greater protection. Specifically, if the equipment is operating properly in regard to FCC emissions specs, the responsibility for mitigation resides with the owner of the TV or other electronic device being interfered with.
But then, the FCC policy reverses itself by stating that, even with properly operating amateur equipment, the operator may have hours of operation restricted, so as not to interfere with the neighbor's right to watch his nightly dose of porn.
Finally, an emergency trumps all other considerations, even the frequencies on which amateurs are normally allowed to operate.
Try to navigate through that swamp if you will.
In a way, it's like he nautical rules of the road. Right of way is defined with extreme precision, but there's a kicker, for which I have never heard a correspondence in land rules -- right of way notwithstanding, you are absolutely required to do whatever is needed to avoid a collision. In effect, if, despite your best efforts, there is a collision, you get to sue the offender from the bottom of the ocean.
Re:HF is the only communications safety net (Score:2, Interesting)
People are morons.
They bitch about infrastructure yet they move to VoIP and rip out the copper land lines.
We push hybrid cars that cost more to produce (in terms of money and environmental impact) than old regular cars, and the difference will never be made up during the life of the car.
We want plugin electrics despite the fact that they'll put a huge strain on the already-fucked electrical grid, and will be ultimately be supplied by burning coal.
We have rebate programs to replace your fridge that's been working for 40 years with a new one that will be nicer to the environment but need to be replaced in 3 years.
We push shitty shitty light bulbs down your throat when there's not a damned thing wrong with the current ones.
Etc.
Re:HF is the only communications safety net (Score:4, Interesting)
We push shitty shitty light bulbs down your throat when there's not a damned thing wrong with the current ones.
I think my power bill disagrees with you on that point.
Re:Not just Ham Radio (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:3, Interesting)
By law, the max you have to pay for the test to get a license is about $10, but it's supposed to be limited to cost of materials for the VEs, so it should be far less than that under normal circumstances.
Beyond that, you can get on HF with a radio you designed yourself to fit in a sardine tin, and work the world using morse code. As long as it doesn't give off out-of-band emissions, you can build it out of things you find after gently applying a hammer to a cheap drugstore radio.
You can also get plans or pre-built radios for a range of prices from $5 to $5k (and up, I suppose, but you're going to be hard pressed to get much additional value for the dollars over $5k.)
With a UHF handie and a hand-held yagi (total cost new well under $1k), you can talk to people using satellite repeaters. Add in a modem and you can download and share files (which might be images the satellite itself recorded).
For such a low price, and no real requirement of understanding (beyond knowing just enough to avoid violating regulations put in place for safety and interference reasons), I hardly think amateur radio can be considered an elitist hobby. The whole point is to chit chat with new and interesting people from as many places near and far as possible.
What about other users? (Score:1, Interesting)
Are there any rigorous studies demonstrating that power line networking doesn't create radio interference to other devices?
Years ago, I was part of a team that created a software package that calculated the potential for interference from commercial FM transmitters to aircraft navigation signals, primarily the ILS. This came about because one of my coworkers was collecting data during a flight and noticed some odd interference. A subsequent flight was made with an ILS receiver with some taps made at certain points in the circuitry and they were able to record a portion of a broadcast from a radio station in Ohio that someone in the plane recognized. It surprised the hell out of a lot of people. (The sick joke around the lab was that it might be handy to pick up the Indians game while in the plane; if they won you could at least die happy). And the software package pissed off a lot of folks with a lot of money that wanted to erect transmitters wherever they damn well pleased who found out that the land they'd purchased couldn't be used for a tower. Or at least they wouldn't be allowed to broadcast at the power that they wanted. (Less power and the signal reaches fewer listeners and you can't charge as much for ads. Hence their anger.) Their thinking was that the two spectrums didn't overlap so what trouble could possibly occur?
Personally, I'd much rather see power line networking die a quiet death if there's a chance, however remote, of it causing an aircraft to auger in because it interfered with the landing system. (I'm of a similar mind of the bozos who think they need to be on their cell phones and laptops while the aircraft is on final approach. Having to squeeze that much work into a flight brings new meaning to the word "deadline".)
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:1, Interesting)
Radio amateurs here in my city were too interested into buying technology, rather than learning about it, so it was time to say goodbye. My job offered me much more opportunities to learn about new technologies (and, most important, to have an active part in them), and so I sold all my ham radio equipment.
Sometimes I think if I should go back to ham radio when I retire, but I always answer to myself a big "NO": things like digital photography and internet are cheaper, technologically more challenging, and much more socially shareable with other people than ham radio, so my choice is done.
I do not back up the idea of dropping ham radio for BPL, but I believe that the importance of this hobby as a way of self-learning should be quite reconsidered. Just my 0.02 USD...
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:3, Interesting)
For $15 to take the test, and then $200 or so for a decent radio you can have a hobby that is a blast. I regularly talk to people on radio nets (basically where a group of people get together at a desired time, and all talk about random subjects).
I am 21, and I am considered one of the young ones, even so it is interesting to see how much HAM radio in general is used in various situations to get information from one location to another quickly. HAM radio groups also tend to be available at all kinds of different events to help manage the crowd, do reporting of incidents. Just recently there was a biking event and we were present along the course to give status updates, get emergency help all by using our radio's.
Generally the HAM radio guys are older, and they can talk for hours on end, and some of it is boring, but I have met many people that have skill sets that I only wish I could have, I have talked to people in the industry (Moto, Intel, Microchip, and others) and it has been awesome to get contacts or leads for new projects and ideas as well as possible jobs coming out of college.
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:3, Interesting)
I am sorry to hear that in your city they were not as interested in learning about the technologies in so much as buying it.
I am 21, so I am much younger than you, I got into HAM radio because of a project (http://nearspace.0x58.com) I did at school, having a license helped communicate between the teams while on the ground looking for the device, and helped us keep track of the APRS as it was being sent from the balloon.
HAM radio has been really interesting, I have met really great people at various different companies, and recently a hacker space (http://heatsynclabs.org/) has been starting up in Phoenix and there were quite a few HAM radio people there! You just need to find the group that is still willing to learn and find new innovative projects to work on.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:2, Interesting)
far less than 1 million worldwide have active licences
I would like to know where you come up with this figure. I have already pointed out that over 16,000 have active licenses in the state of Georgia alone. A quick search of the FCC ULS returns 726,015 amateurs with active licenses in the US alone, so I guess by your figure no other country counts into the worldwide average.
While comsats may be a common thing for first responders in the coastal area where you live, they are not in the coastal area where I live. You could be talking hours get one from the nearest larger city, much longer than the time required for me to get my kit and get on scene. Most HAM rigs will run off of a standard car battery, solar chargers are readily available so while it may not be as efficient as comsat it is doable. How is BoPL advancing the progression of first response technology? Also broadband is available in wireless and satellite forms, so wouldn't it make more sense to improve on those forms rather than "advance" to a technology that makes something that "just works" not work?
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:3, Interesting)
Quote:
If we're keeping HAM around for a few thousand (at most?) true hobbyists, using the excuse that it's a disaster tool, then that's a false need to support an old and dying hobby, and it's preventing rolling out commercial BoPL services to support millions of americans with a cheaper and more stable communications system, and holding back an economy worth billions of dollars for some 50+ year old tech. How stupid is that?
End Quote
This reply is very ignorant to all the hundreds of thousands of people in this world who has for decades used the HF bands for communication, shortwave broadcast listening etc. You must realize that BPL/PLC/PLT is intruding on an already occupied frequency area, that is simply an offense towards people that enjoy their radio hobby. What right do you have to do this, is your Internet surfing on Google etc. so much more important ? All around the world the protests against BPL/PLC/PLT are increasing rapidly, so I believe that we will see a change some time in the near future. Especially the HomePlug powerline adapters are unnescessary equipment, there exists no cases where either CAT-5, Wifi 2.4GHz or Wifi 900MHz will not work. That is why we do not need these HomePlug units. The industry must find new and better technology to replace the existing BPL/PLC/PLT technology, this is the only solution. We all want Internet access, but it is foolish to intrude on already occupied frequency bands.
Roar from Norway