dmolnar writes "I recently helped my girlfriend move her stuff from Chicago, IL to Oakland, CA. The movers were scheduled to arrive at 8AM on the 5th of July, and we were stressing the day before about all the things that could go wrong with a move. We realized that if we knew where her stuff was, it'd make us feel better. This is a story about using the $99 iPhone to track the move ... and about a somewhat surprising potential use of Find My iPhone to track your friends' iPhones without them noticing."
Personally I would have gone with something from deal extreme, a GPSSMS bridge. It costs the same as the iPhone, but without the contract. You could have bought simple card from Walmart.
Not to mention it would have been designed for this and probably last a bit longer. Put in eBay after you're done and recoup some of the costs.
What does a iPhone cost without the data plan? (Say the phone broke and you need a new one, not to mention you just signed up for 2 years)
Isn't the whole point of the article about current users utilising existing features in new and innovative ways. i.e. with a marginal cost of zero.
That would be using one of the many location tracking features that have been out for years for other smartphones. The total cost isn't $99+2 year contract, but simply $200 for the phone and no contract.
These days, the simplest of the bunch is probably Google Latitude.
However if I already have an phone it is a useful feature nicely outlined in the article.
Fixed that for you. Yes, that was his point - this has been available on phones for years. Why do we need an article specifically for the Iphone, just because it finally joins the club? I thought Slashdot was once a place to find news on cutting edge technology - okay, I know we joke about stories turning up late, but...
The only point of that article is to advertise the crappy iPhone, which nobody would buy, were it not for the bubble of love they create around you and it. ^^
(Hmm... Sadly I think it may be more serious that I wished it to be.)
"As for returning the iPhone, I keep meaning to, but somehow it has become...precious...to me. Maybe Apple will claim a new iPhone user out of all this after all."
Where does it say he threw it away? That would be an idiotic thing to do in any case.
What does a iPhone cost without the data plan? (Say the phone broke and you need a new one, not to mention you just signed up for 2 years)
From reading the article (I know, sorry!) it seems they believed there was a clause in the AT&T contract which allowed them to cancel within 30 days and keep the iPhone.
I think they might have been mistaken about that, since AT&T are unlikely to make much money giving away iPhones for free. To use everyone's favourite analogy, it's like renting a car for a week, but if you cancel within 24 hours you get to keep the car.
So all your belongings are in boxes, including this GPS with SMS bridge business you speak of, all of which is buried under clothes or whatever, sitting deep inside a moving truck which just happens to be built out of sheet metal, strengthened by a steel or alloy frame of sorts (Last time I checked, all of them were built this way) A nice little Faraday cage yes?
Your solution would not work, this guy lucked out in that the system was using cell towers to triangulate the phones location, if it was true GPS it would not have worked.
If the truck acts as a Faraday cage why would it block GPS but let through cellphone traffic? They are both just radio on different frequencies after all.
I suspect it acted much less like a Faraday cage than just a poor place to get much of a signal. But I also suspect they'd have a much better chance getting a cell signal than a gps signal.
Just so there's no confusion... the parent post is incorrect. Faraday cages do not have to be grounded. There are reasons to ground them, but they can work just fine as a faraday cage even if not ground.
I bought a Garmin Venture CX for a similar purpose; to record where I have been so that I can interpolate the location of pictures I took with where I was, based on the timestamp of the picture.
It has a feature where every day can be logged to the MicroSD card, so while the built-in memory is a bit limited, you can have basically unlimited storage in the MicroSD card. Get some good batteries and it lasts a while. (Hybrid batteries like the Sanyo Eneloops are very much recommended.)
Do people really buy in to the BS about an Iphone being $99? IT's only $99 if you sign your soul away for 2 years. The mobile carriers here are so fortunate to have an ignorant populace that is eager to go through the mental gymnastics required to truly believe that their iphone only costed $99.
That caveat works fine for a scenario like this, until it's systemically abused, prompting AT&T to change its policies when it has too many returned phones (not just iPhones, but any other data-enabled device that might be used for just such a trick).
It works now because of the balance--it's a good supply of refurbed phones, which are still profitable for the carrier, to a point. As with most things, it's all about balance.
Here in Portugal we have the *right by law* to return those kind of products before 15 days after buying them. ISP contracts too, if you find that it sucks (for example, you have massive ping or you only get 3 of the 15Mbps from any servers but their own) you can cancel it, with full refund.
But I don't believe it gets much abused. What are abused are nice warranties like some shops give you: My friend bought a 20GB IPod, an year after goes to the store and complains about it shutting down randomly (false) a
hehe, you think people haven't, for decades now, been buying shit with the intention of using it for n days and then returning it? You think there hasn't been a court case finding on it? It's well established law. If you buy something with the intention of returning it, you're not acting in good faith. It's simple fraud.
hehe, you think people haven't, for decades now, been buying shit with the intention of using it for n days and then returning it? You think there hasn't been a court case finding on it? It's well established law. If you buy something with the intention of returning it, you're not acting in good faith. It's simple fraud.
Eh? If I buy a product that comes with a contract saying "you can return it for whatever reason within the first 30 days for a full refund" then returning it for any reason is _not_ fraud.
Taking advantage of the agreed terms of a contract is perfectly legal.
That clause is predicated on your good faith intention of actually keeping the item until, for some reason, you decide it did not meet your expectations and so you return it. If you intention from the start was to take advantage of this clause by using the item and returning it before the deadline, you are not acting in good faith; your intent is to defraud the company.
It would have been an easy case for AT&T to make, given the guy's confession and all.
The RIAA called downloading music a crime before it became criminal, there's nothing in that article to support the assertion that it's illegal to 'wardrobe'.
It's well established law. If you buy something with the intention of returning it, you're not acting in good faith. It's simple fraud.
Citation needed.
I've just spent some time googling around on this one. The term for this seems to be "Wardrobing". There's a stub article, [wikipedia.org] but nothing about law. Nor did any turn up in any of my searching. If it's well-established law, I'd expect it to be a FAQ answered by many retailers. It's not.
I also fail to see how it is fraud, unless there are complicating circumstances, such as trying to return an item purchased at another store, or keeping the accessories, or other underhandedness... But if th
So.... how do you use any phone with out service? The contract really means nothing the US since AT&T is the only major GSM carrier in the US that supports all of the features of the iPhone.
You can get an unlocked Nokia N78 for about $230 with no contract. Then, buy AT&T prepaid. It's a lot cheaper than an iPhone with a 2 year contract and has the same functionality.
What carrier would a person switch to without losing features?
Works fine in Europe, where phones and service are a lot cheaper, all carriers are compatible, and people can switch freely (unless they sign a contract, which also exist if you want the phone discount). There's no reason it couldn't work here.
That's very nice Mr. Cowardon, but you're not the demographic I'm talking about. I'm referring to the people who sign up to £30 or £40 contracts without even thinking about it, so they can have the very shiniest new handsets. Perhaps the minority require a thousand SMS and several GB of data a month, but I expect they're in the minority.
What they don't understand is that they have good alternatives. Get an unlocked Google, Nokia, or Windows Mobile phone and a prepaid plan and you pay much less for a smartphone that gets the job done (and actually is nicer for text messages and a lot of other uses).
Wow, what set that rant off? I don't think the OP said anything about a ripoff. It sounded more like surprise that so many people seem to focus exclusively on the $99 upfront cost and (apparently) ignore the monthly, as if that was irrelevant. Another example of this attitude is the fuss a lot of people made over the extra fee required to pay off the rest of their iPhone 3G contract when upgrading.
By way of comparison, in AU there is a fairly wide range of upfront vs monthly options. I pay full price for an
From TFA, the "hack" only works if you have physical access to the phone. Security always fails when you give someone physical access.
Nothing to see here, move along.
What peace of mind do you get from knowing where your stuff is? Is there anything you can do with that information?
I wonder if it isn't more a matter of control that you feel like you're giving up by letting professionals do their job. Do you also insist on driving everywhere instead of taking a plane or bus?
It might be easier for them to watch the location of the delivery, as opposed to repeatedly calling the removal people to find out where they were.
I am interested in getting phones with something like google latitude because a lot of our calls amount to "where are you" or "when will you be home", etc. And I hate talking on a phone when I am in transit.
The parent's point was that why do you need to continually call the removal people to find out where they are?
If you trust the company to move your stuff, then they'll get it to your new place as soon as they can. If they're late, they should call you. If you don't trust the company to move your stuff, then hire somebody else, or hire a van and move the stuff yourself.
Seems totally paranoid to want to 'track' the removal company, if you ask me!
I was making a bit of a joke but if you want to be serious, I can do that, too.
I know of two cases where this scam was successfully overcome by the victim. In both of them, the victim told the guy who knocked on the door to come on in and get his money. When the fraudster stepped inside, the victim's mate (in both these cases, the scammers thought they were dealing solely with a defenseless woman) proceeded to beat the scammer varying degrees of senseless and then walk him back out to the truck to order t
I see the point of knowing here your stuff is if you have stuff that you absolutely cannot loose, but in thit case you probably wouldn't send it using a relocation company.
Well, a friend of mine lost his stuff in a move, and it took the moving company some eight months to find it. They wouldn't admit it was lost (so he could claim insurance and buy replacements), but I don't know what else it was doing for all that time. So, in at least one case, it would have been helpful to be able to tell them "it's on pier 8 in Rotterdam" (or wherever). The original author wasn't trying to control the people doing the move, just wanting to know how it was going.
Won't google lattitude achieve exactly the same thing? I have it installed on my BB and I can get the location of half a dozen of my friends that have added me to their "friends" list on their devices (both BB and iPhones). There is also a google maps gadget you can use to check the location from your PC.
What advantages do you get from using MobileMe and Find My iPhone ?
The "find my iphone" feature requires a MobileMe account.
MobileMe is an expensive set of web based services that can easily be substituted with Flickr and Google's stuff.
So, 79â a year for tracking my phone i n case I lose it? No thanks.
Only in the USA do people shout "think of the lawyers!" before considering innovations in technology....;-)
The guy is only tracking his own stuff. He doesn't know who's driving the truck, if they changed every 100 miles and different people are in the cab from when they picked up his stuff, if they are in the cab when the vehicle is stationary or if they've gone off to a cafe or home to sleep for the night. He only knows where his iphone is. For all he knows his stuff might have been shifted to another vehicle, he doesn't even know if it's in the same truck.
Guy wants to do something bizarre and paranoid. Looks for an honest way of doing it. Concludes that would be too expensive, and notices that if he pretends to want a new cellphone, and pretends to want a set of web-based services for it, he can get them for $99, claim he doesn't like the phone or service, and cancel them up to 30 days later.
Plan works as intended and results in the exact same situation as if he didn't do the bizarre and paranoid thing (movers tell you they'll be at the destination at one time, but come at another).
Guy expresses shock that setting a phone up to report its location to a web service results in --gasp!-- the phone reporting its location to a web service!!! Notes that if you don't keep your web password or your phone secured, your security could be compromised!
Finishes by admitting he likes the phone, which is a relief because this isn't a story so much about hardware, but someone's lack of honesty and willingness to rip companies off in order to do a bizarre and paranoid thing.
I don't understand the point of this entire exercise. Where did he think the truck was going, on a Ferris Bueller-esque "joy ride" across the country?
He had his dates mixed up as well: movers were scheduled to come in at 8am on the 5th, Best Buy was open at 10am on the 5th, and after buying the phone, he says the movers are coming the next morning, which would would've been the 6th.
I don't have an iPhone, but would it get a signal while packed in a cardboard box while in a fully-enclosed metal container?
Its much easier to track someone with Lattitute. Send them a request from your phone and when you get a minute with their phone acceept the request and you're away. When you can exit google maps it still continutes tracking the phone so unless they manually turn off the lattitude feature (and it does ask you every time you exit the app) they will be none the wiser. I'm not a lawyer but I would bet this is probablt illegal.
Much cheaper... (Score:5, Informative)
Personally I would have gone with something from deal extreme, a GPSSMS bridge. It costs the same as the iPhone, but without the contract. You could have bought simple card from Walmart.
Not to mention it would have been designed for this and probably last a bit longer. Put in eBay after you're done and recoup some of the costs.
What does a iPhone cost without the data plan? (Say the phone broke and you need a new one, not to mention you just signed up for 2 years)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25332 [dealextreme.com]
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.21686 [dealextreme.com]
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11314 [dealextreme.com]
Re:Much cheaper... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Much cheaper... (Score:5, Informative)
Isn't the whole point of the article about current users utilising existing features in new and innovative ways. i.e. with a marginal cost of zero.
That would be using one of the many location tracking features that have been out for years for other smartphones. The total cost isn't $99+2 year contract, but simply $200 for the phone and no contract.
These days, the simplest of the bunch is probably Google Latitude.
No expensive iPhone needed.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wouldn't you rather have the iPhone in your pocket, to receive calls?
However if you have a *spare* iPhone 3G or 3GS, it's a great idea. How many people have spare iPhone 3Gs?
Apparently (Score:3, Funny)
It's primarily angst ridden geeks who worry about all the crap they've accreted.
Re:Much cheaper... (Score:4, Insightful)
However if I already have an phone it is a useful feature nicely outlined in the article.
Fixed that for you. Yes, that was his point - this has been available on phones for years. Why do we need an article specifically for the Iphone, just because it finally joins the club? I thought Slashdot was once a place to find news on cutting edge technology - okay, I know we joke about stories turning up late, but...
What next? "Using Your Iphone To Talk To People"?
Parent
Re:Much cheaper... (Score:4, Insightful)
How did you come up with that conclusion.
The only point of that article is to advertise the crappy iPhone, which nobody would buy, were it not for the bubble of love they create around you and it. ^^
(Hmm... Sadly I think it may be more serious that I wished it to be.)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My phone doesn't have a camera. It doesn't have internet. It doesn't have ringtones. It doesn't have GPS. It doesn't run programs.
My phone makes phone calls, and I love it to death.
Re:Much cheaper... (Score:5, Funny)
It doesn't have ringtones...
My phone makes phone calls, and I love it to death.
You should really upgrade to a newer model. They can receive calls now, too!
Parent
So much for RTFA... (Score:3, Informative)
"As for returning the iPhone, I keep meaning to, but somehow it has become...precious...to me. Maybe Apple will claim a new iPhone user out of all this after all."
Where does it say he threw it away? That would be an idiotic thing to do in any case.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What does a iPhone cost without the data plan? (Say the phone broke and you need a new one, not to mention you just signed up for 2 years)
From reading the article (I know, sorry!) it seems they believed there was a clause in the AT&T contract which allowed them to cancel within 30 days and keep the iPhone.
I think they might have been mistaken about that, since AT&T are unlikely to make much money giving away iPhones for free. To use everyone's favourite analogy, it's like renting a car for a week, but if you cancel within 24 hours you get to keep the car.
Re:Much cheaper... (Score:5, Informative)
So all your belongings are in boxes, including this GPS with SMS bridge business you speak of, all of which is buried under clothes or whatever, sitting deep inside a moving truck which just happens to be built out of sheet metal, strengthened by a steel or alloy frame of sorts (Last time I checked, all of them were built this way) A nice little Faraday cage yes?
Your solution would not work, this guy lucked out in that the system was using cell towers to triangulate the phones location, if it was true GPS it would not have worked.
Parent
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If the truck acts as a Faraday cage why would it block GPS but let through cellphone traffic? They are both just radio on different frequencies after all.
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Fascinating.
Up until this moment, I had no idea there was a Penske vs. U-HAUL religious war, complete with fanboys! I learned something today!
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I bought a Garmin Venture CX for a similar purpose; to record where I have been so that I can interpolate the location of pictures I took with where I was, based on the timestamp of the picture.
It has a feature where every day can be logged to the MicroSD card, so while the built-in memory is a bit limited, you can have basically unlimited storage in the MicroSD card.
Get some good batteries and it lasts a while. (Hybrid batteries like the Sanyo Eneloops are very much recommended.)
No Bluetooth, but it does h
Iphones are not $99 (Score:5, Informative)
Do people really buy in to the BS about an Iphone being $99? IT's only $99 if you sign your soul away for 2 years. The mobile carriers here are so fortunate to have an ignorant populace that is eager to go through the mental gymnastics required to truly believe that their iphone only costed $99.
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From TFA:
"AT&T has a clause in their contract where you can opt out within 30 days without paying the early termination fee."
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If you also return the hardware, sure.
That caveat works fine for a scenario like this, until it's systemically abused, prompting AT&T to change its policies when it has too many returned phones (not just iPhones, but any other data-enabled device that might be used for just such a trick).
It works now because of the balance--it's a good supply of refurbed phones, which are still profitable for the carrier, to a point. As with most things, it's all about balance.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Here in Portugal we have the *right by law* to return those kind of products before 15 days after buying them. ISP contracts too, if you find that it sucks (for example, you have massive ping or you only get 3 of the 15Mbps from any servers but their own) you can cancel it, with full refund.
But I don't believe it gets much abused. What are abused are nice warranties like some shops give you: My friend bought a 20GB IPod, an year after goes to the store and complains about it shutting down randomly (false) a
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I too enjoyed the part where he advocated defrauding AT&T. I sure hope they give him a call.
Re:Iphones are not $99 (Score:5, Interesting)
hehe, you think people haven't, for decades now, been buying shit with the intention of using it for n days and then returning it? You think there hasn't been a court case finding on it? It's well established law. If you buy something with the intention of returning it, you're not acting in good faith. It's simple fraud.
Parent
Re:Iphones are not $99 (Score:4, Interesting)
hehe, you think people haven't, for decades now, been buying shit with the intention of using it for n days and then returning it? You think there hasn't been a court case finding on it? It's well established law. If you buy something with the intention of returning it, you're not acting in good faith. It's simple fraud.
Eh? If I buy a product that comes with a contract saying "you can return it for whatever reason within the first 30 days for a full refund" then returning it for any reason is _not_ fraud.
Taking advantage of the agreed terms of a contract is perfectly legal.
Parent
Re:Iphones are not $99 (Score:4, Informative)
That clause is predicated on your good faith intention of actually keeping the item until, for some reason, you decide it did not meet your expectations and so you return it. If you intention from the start was to take advantage of this clause by using the item and returning it before the deadline, you are not acting in good faith; your intent is to defraud the company.
It would have been an easy case for AT&T to make, given the guy's confession and all.
Check out "Wardrobing" or "renting":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_fraud [wikipedia.org]
-dZ.
Parent
Re:Iphones are not $99 (Score:4, Interesting)
Actual citation needed.
The RIAA called downloading music a crime before it became criminal, there's nothing in that article to support the assertion that it's illegal to 'wardrobe'.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's well established law. If you buy something with the intention of returning it, you're not acting in good faith. It's simple fraud.
Citation needed.
I've just spent some time googling around on this one. The term for this seems to be "Wardrobing". There's a stub article, [wikipedia.org] but nothing about law. Nor did any turn up in any of my searching. If it's well-established law, I'd expect it to be a FAQ answered by many retailers. It's not.
I also fail to see how it is fraud, unless there are complicating circumstances, such as trying to return an item purchased at another store, or keeping the accessories, or other underhandedness... But if th
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Re:Iphones are not $99 (Score:5, Informative)
So.... how do you use any phone with out service? The contract really means nothing the US since AT&T is the only major GSM carrier in the US that supports all of the features of the iPhone.
You can get an unlocked Nokia N78 for about $230 with no contract. Then, buy AT&T prepaid. It's a lot cheaper than an iPhone with a 2 year contract and has the same functionality.
What carrier would a person switch to without losing features?
Works fine in Europe, where phones and service are a lot cheaper, all carriers are compatible, and people can switch freely (unless they sign a contract, which also exist if you want the phone discount). There's no reason it couldn't work here.
Parent
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Sorry, but the article specifically said the immortal "it's only $99!!!"
Re:Iphones are not $99 (Score:5, Insightful)
What they don't understand is that they have good alternatives. Get an unlocked Google, Nokia, or Windows Mobile phone and a prepaid plan and you pay much less for a smartphone that gets the job done (and actually is nicer for text messages and a lot of other uses).
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow, what set that rant off? I don't think the OP said anything about a ripoff. It sounded more like surprise that so many people seem to focus exclusively on the $99 upfront cost and (apparently) ignore the monthly, as if that was irrelevant. Another example of this attitude is the fuss a lot of people made over the extra fee required to pay off the rest of their iPhone 3G contract when upgrading.
By way of comparison, in AU there is a fairly wide range of upfront vs monthly options. I pay full price for an
Only if you have access to the hardware (Score:2, Offtopic)
Moving company? (Score:3, Insightful)
What peace of mind do you get from knowing where your stuff is? Is there anything you can do with that information?
I wonder if it isn't more a matter of control that you feel like you're giving up by letting professionals do their job. Do you also insist on driving everywhere instead of taking a plane or bus?
Re: (Score:2)
I am interested in getting phones with something like google latitude because a lot of our calls amount to "where are you" or "when will you be home", etc. And I hate talking on a phone when I am in transit.
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The parent's point was that why do you need to continually call the removal people to find out where they are?
If you trust the company to move your stuff, then they'll get it to your new place as soon as they can. If they're late, they should call you. If you don't trust the company to move your stuff, then hire somebody else, or hire a van and move the stuff yourself.
Seems totally paranoid to want to 'track' the removal company, if you ask me!
OK, if you want to be serious. (Score:3, Interesting)
I was making a bit of a joke but if you want to be serious, I can do that, too.
I know of two cases where this scam was successfully overcome by the victim. In both of them, the victim told the guy who knocked on the door to come on in and get his money. When the fraudster stepped inside, the victim's mate (in both these cases, the scammers thought they were dealing solely with a defenseless woman) proceeded to beat the scammer varying degrees of senseless and then walk him back out to the truck to order t
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Hmmm... (Score:2)
I, too, want to advertise for free on Slashdot. Who do I contact?
-Taylor
Google Lattitude (Score:4, Informative)
"find my iphone" is EXPENSIVE (Score:3, Informative)
Is this even legal in most places? (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought you needed a warrant or at least a private investigator's license to track people by GPS without their knowledge.
Think of the lawyers! (Score:4, Insightful)
Only in the USA do people shout "think of the lawyers!" before considering innovations in technology.... ;-)
The guy is only tracking his own stuff. He doesn't know who's driving the truck, if they changed every 100 miles and different people are in the cab from when they picked up his stuff, if they are in the cab when the vehicle is stationary or if they've gone off to a cafe or home to sleep for the night. He only knows where his iphone is. For all he knows his stuff might have been shifted to another vehicle, he doesn't even know if it's in the same truck.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ahh... yes.
And Cheney had a valid warrant for every single act of spying he did.
But a bunch of college kids don't have the handy excuse, nor the political clout to keep themselves out of prison over a silly stunt.
More accurate summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Guy wants to do something bizarre and paranoid. Looks for an honest way of doing it. Concludes that would be too expensive, and notices that if he pretends to want a new cellphone, and pretends to want a set of web-based services for it, he can get them for $99, claim he doesn't like the phone or service, and cancel them up to 30 days later.
Plan works as intended and results in the exact same situation as if he didn't do the bizarre and paranoid thing (movers tell you they'll be at the destination at one time, but come at another).
Guy expresses shock that setting a phone up to report its location to a web service results in --gasp!-- the phone reporting its location to a web service!!! Notes that if you don't keep your web password or your phone secured, your security could be compromised!
Finishes by admitting he likes the phone, which is a relief because this isn't a story so much about hardware, but someone's lack of honesty and willingness to rip companies off in order to do a bizarre and paranoid thing.
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I don't understand the point of this entire exercise. Where did he think the truck was going, on a Ferris Bueller-esque "joy ride" across the country?
He had his dates mixed up as well: movers were scheduled to come in at 8am on the 5th, Best Buy was open at 10am on the 5th, and after buying the phone, he says the movers are coming the next morning, which would would've been the 6th.
I don't have an iPhone, but would it get a signal while packed in a cardboard box while in a fully-enclosed metal container?
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