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Comments: 533 +- Hardware: Getting a Classic PC Working After 25 Years? on Friday July 10, @09:15AM
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kdawson
on Friday July 10, @09:15AM
from the lotus-123-baby dept.
from the lotus-123-baby dept.
tunersedge writes "Yesterday I dug out of my parents' basement a PC they had bought brand new in 1984: Epson Equity I personal computer; 512K RAM; 82-key keyboard; 2 (count 'em!, 2) 5.25" floppy disk drives; 13' RGB monitor (with contrast/brightness knobs); handy on/off switch; healthy 25-year-old yellowed plastic; absolutely no software. (My mom ran a pre-school, and they used it to keep records and payroll. I cut my programming teeth on this thing. GW-Basic was my friend. Kings Quest screens took 2 minutes to load when you walked into a new one.) When I resurrected this machine I pulled the case off, dusted out a little, and plugged it in. It actually fired up! I'm stoked, except the disks we had are missing. What I'm looking to do is either buy some old working disks with whatever I can find (MS-DOS 3.22, GW-Basic, whatever), or try and recreate some using a USB-based floppy drive and some modern software. Has anyone tried to resurrect a PC this old before?"
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You already know where to go for disks.... (Score:5, Informative)
Ebay is your friend!
Re:You already know where to go for disks.... (Score:4, Informative)
Thrift stores.
You should check out thrift stores.
I see 5 1/4 inch floppy disks in those places all the time. Cheap.
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Re:You already know where to go for disks.... (Score:5, Funny)
I think the Epson Equity was the one that had a typo in the BIOS when you inserted a floppy disk. The typo was in the word disk, and exhorted the user to insert a system dick when they booted with a non-boot floppy.
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Re:You already know where to go for disks.... (Score:5, Funny)
I think that Windows 7 will have lower hardware requirements than Vista. Why not give it a try?
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Re:You already know where to go for disks.... (Score:4, Informative)
Double density (AKA "standard density" or 360K) cannot reliably be formatted for high density (1.2M) use, or vice versa, because the coercivity of the media is significantly different.
IBM-compatible PCs have never used single density as a standard disk format, and many IBM-compatible PCs can't actually deal with single density, though some can. The first disk drives shipped on PCs were single sided, though IBM switched to double sided fairly early on. The format progression for media on the PC, AT, PS/2, and compatibles was:
There were, of course, other formats not supported by IBM DOS, but used by other vendors or other software.
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Re:You already know where to go for disks.... (Score:4, Informative)
I've used a couple models of Epson Equity. The custom DOS version 3.2 on the XT model (Equity I) is easy to find online, but there's really nothing special about it. The AT model (Equity III) had DOS 4.01 and it was a generic version.
MS-DOS 3.3 is probably the easiest to find and is the ideal version for an XT-class system. A full 3.3 will have GW-BASIC on disk 2.
-uso.
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OT: sig (Score:5, Insightful)
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
I'd like my operating system to have more than two possible settings. Operating systems are complex because the world is complex.
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Re:OT: sig (Score:5, Funny)
I'd like my operating system to have more than two possible settings.
1) ON
2) OFF
3) NEITHER ON NOR OFF
4) SOMEWHAT ON
5) ROOTED
6) FROZEN
7) DEAD
8) JUST MOSTLY DEAD
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Re:You already know where to go for disks.... (Score:4, Informative)
16 bit SCSI card, my friend. Adaptec 1542CF is what you want. Actually, a 16-bit IDE host adapter should be fine. I might even have one of those as well. Reply if you're interested...
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512k! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:512k! (Score:5, Funny)
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
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Re:512k! (Score:5, Insightful)
Nevertheless it's a tradition deeply engrained in slashdot culture.
In other words, you must be new here.
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Re:512k! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:512k! (Score:5, Funny)
"Indeed, on Slashdot it is traditional to make the same retarded jokes over and over again."
In Soviet Russia, the same joke over and over again makes you retarded!
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Re:Sad Joke... (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Sad Joke... (Score:5, Informative)
Sad? No, actually it's annoying. Bill Gates never actually said what you think he said.
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Re:Sad Joke... (Score:5, Insightful)
True.
And what Rumsfeld said about "known unknowns" was logical (albeit paraphrased in a place where the original quote would have been better.)
And Al Gore didn't claim to have "invented" the internet; he said he "took the initative in creating the internet", which given how you would expect a Congreeman to take initative (recognizing a good program, giving it attention and money) is true.
And Sarah Palin's speech was actually coherent, not beautiful but coherent, if you read it.
And Quayle's spelling of potato isn't the most common, but is technically a valid alternative. (Although the potato incident was dumb for other reasons.)
People who you dislike rarely say the dumb things you think they did, as you'll address a quote out of context (or misrepresentation of that quote) from someone you like, but not from someone you don't. You're more than happy to assume people you don't like are retarded.
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Re:Sad Joke... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Sad Joke... (Score:4, Informative)
No, it isn't. Are you trolling, or just never botherd to listen to it? If you had listened to it, you 'd have to admit HE DOES NOT say "640 k should be enough for anyone".
The only part you could be referring to is:
Which if YOU READ THE FUCKING THING, is him speaking in 1989, years after the design was set (1980 or 81), saying that 640k was certainly not enough.
You found a paragraph where Bill Gates mentions "640 k". Unfortunately, it's not remotely close to the "quote".
Parent
USB 5.25 Floppy (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been wanting one of these for years... they need to make one that's compatible with all systems, not just IBM Compatible. I wonder if one of the numerous C64 floppy adapters (that uses parallel) would let you write to IBM format.
For DOS, I'm pretty sure FreeDOS would work.
FreeDOS (Score:5, Informative)
FreeDOS probably would boot on this machine.
I actually know the machine you're talking about - except I had a HDD. I know for a fact the thing will run MS-DOS 5.0.x
Re:FreeDOS (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:FreeDOS (Score:4, Funny)
It's "feign indignation at the high quality of life of the previous poster" + "state your childhood desires to have such luxury" + "state how much worse you had it" so that the next poster can follow up. Get with the program!
Parent
Re:FreeDOS (Score:4, Funny)
You had a hill? We had to go up a 20 mile vertical cliff
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Contact Customer Support? (Score:5, Insightful)
They do host the manual [epson.com] that indicates you have a parallel port and a RS-232C serial port to play with and also something that looks like expansion slots designed for peripherals. Good luck and have fun!
Re:Contact Customer Support? (Score:5, Informative)
http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/e1____/e1____ps.pdf [epson.com]
There's a reference to a few HDD controller mentioned, jumper positions, etc.
I'd bet you could hack a modern fdd into it fairly easily...
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Re:Contact Customer Support? (Score:4, Informative)
I used to do this all the time with game companies back in the nineties. Often times they'd send me free copies of their C-64 programs and whatnot. It is absolutely worth a shot even though nowadays the operator on the phone is probably not going to even understand your request and/or believe that such a product ever existed.
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Re:Contact Customer Support? (Score:5, Funny)
imagine the tech receiving this tech support call. "hi, i'd like to get the original software that came with my system. ... 1984. ... hello?"
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Just admit it... (Score:5, Funny)
Yesterday I dug out of my parents' basement a PC they had bought brand new in 1984: Epson Equity I personal computer
Just admit it, it was under your bed wasn't it? At least now it's on that thing you call a table.
Watch out on the usb floppy.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Watch out on the usb floppy.. (Score:5, Informative)
Just a thought - unless I'm mistaken, the floppy cable that plugs into a 3.5" drive also fits in a 5.25" drive - and the power connector for regular PATA hard drives also fits the 5.25" floppy drive. If that is still the case, all he needs to do is put his old 5.25" drive next to a new computer, plug in the cables and fire it up. Create a boot floppy using the Windows 95 'create a boot floppy' utility or however you make boot floppys now (I have a .img file of that boot floppy I use to create boot CDs, so it's been a while since I made a boot floppy - format a: /s maybe?)
Put the 5.25" drive and your new boot floppy back in and Voila! you are all set.
Parent
Re:Watch out on the usb floppy.. (Score:5, Informative)
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Quality that lasts. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Quality that lasts. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Microsoft (Score:5, Funny)
Pimp tips ! (Score:4, Insightful)
Cool, it is very educational to work with old computer's
Nice things to do: :)
- add extra ram by using an ISA memory expansion card (up to 2MB !!!), running windows 3.0 would then be possible !
- 200mb+ IDE/MFM drive (the latter where mostly smaller though and a bit hard to get)
- ISA VGA card
- ISA Soundblaster
- ISA ethernetcard
- run Arachne and surf the WEB !!!!!!!!!!!!, heheh yes you can this baby on slashdot
- a lot more upgrade options, FPU etc.. etc..
Greetings and Enjoy and good luck hunting down Dos software
Amstrad PC1512 (Score:4, Funny)
My parents dug up an Amstrad PC1512 while tidying their house and called me up asking me what to do with it. I said throw it away. They said isn't it worth something? I laughed.
This might help... (Score:5, Informative)
This [wikispaces.com] might help with that part of the restoration (cheap and DIY)...
Disks? (Score:5, Informative)
Impressive (Score:5, Funny)
Personally, I'm more impressed with the 13 foot monitor. I'm assuming its some sort of front projection device. Wonder what the resolution is? :)
Re:Impressive (Score:5, Funny)
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Dear God, why? (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess it must be the difference between ages that causes someone to think that a cruddy DOS machine is actually something worth bringing back up.
Me, I cut my teeth on Radio Shack Model 4 machines, quickly discovering how much more software I could run once I got Montezuma CP/M running on it and downloading public domain software from the local (multi-user) CP/M bulletin board system.
Once the actual PC came along, I think just about anyone who had run a CP/M system saw it for what it was: a crappy copy that took none of the good from CP/M and just about all of the bad, running on a machine that supported a bit more RAM (not 640K yet, RAM was way too expensive) and a slightly faster processor.
I'm sure users of any of several pre-PC architectures would feel the same way - that the PC came along and the party stopped, kind of like that kid everybody hated at school showing up to a (previously fun) private party with a few of his friends.
Awesome find!!! Here's some software suggestions. (Score:5, Informative)
What an awesome find! You can actually download all the software you'd ever want for the system here - http://www.vetusware.com/ [vetusware.com] - which is a website with hundreds of abandoned software titles for download free. They do have various versions of MS-DOS, which I'd suggest MS-DOS 5.0 or higher because I still have nightmares of edlin *cringe*. They do have MS-DOS 6.22 for download along with GWBasic, QBasic, Borland C++ for DOS, etc for development. I assume since you said the system is from 1984 that's it's an 8086 or 8088 which rules out Windows 3.x.
After years of using TRS-80 systems I moved to an 8088 XT clone in 1990 running MS-DOS 3.3, and as you that's where I really started learning to code with GWBasic. About 6 years ago I had some stuff in my closet shift one evening and that old system fell from the top shelf to the floor never to boot again. I wish I still had it, but a few years ago I did pull out an old 486SX system I picked up used in college (around 1996) and played with some of these old DOS languages and games.
Have fun though... so many people cast away these old systems as boat anchors, but they're awesome to work with if you have some patience.
I have experince with this. (Score:5, Informative)
You need to upgrade the RAM to 640 KB. Generally Radio Shack has some SIPPs you can add to the motherboard to add the last 128 KB.
You will need to find a Double density 3.5 floppy drive with a Card edge adaptor. This will allow you to use double density 3.5 floppies in the computer. (High Density will not work.)
You can network this be getting an 8-bit NIC that has a BNC and AUI port, then adding an AUI to UTP tranciever, but you can't use DHCP with it. The WATTCP stack for Dos will require a static IP.
If the video card is in an ISA slot, (and some times even it it isn't.) get a 16 bit ISA Trident VGA Card. This will give you VGA, EGA and CGA support. You can then plug the Computer into a standard monitor.
It's not that old... (Score:4, Interesting)
At work we have PC's much older than that, running manufacturing equipment. If any of them break down, I have a whole room full of old PC's that I could simply search for parts. Eventually we'll run out of parts (the equipment need ISA bus to operate), but at this rate, we're good for another 25 years or so.
Vintage Computing (Score:4, Informative)
Bootstrap via serial port? (Score:5, Informative)
Okay, this may not help but then again it might...
I dug up an old Laser 128 (Apple II compatible) with no working software and was able to get it working using the following method. I don't know if your machine has a compatible feature, though.
http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/bootstrap.html#Starting_from_bare_metal [sourceforge.net]
In short: using a second machine (In my case, running Win98) and a homebrew serial cable, configure the machine to be revived to treat serial port input as keyboard input, then keyboard input direct into memory (like a DEBUG prompt) - If you can do that then the rest of the procedure might actually work with compatible software.
The support machine "types" the software directly into the host machine's memory and executes it. In the link above, you start with a ProDOS image which then gets written to disk so you can boot the machine normally.
=Smidge=
Re:Easy (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:My advice to you (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually trying to use the machine is not likely to make him happy, either. When I've messed around with older nostalgic machines from my childhood, it was cool for the first 10 minutes until the nostalgia wore off and I started to see how painfully slow and primitive they are. These things were great in their time, but they don't age well.
Since the machine is so generic and non-interesting, he may have a harder time finding any sort of enthusiast group for it, but the Internet is vast, so who knows what he could find if he spent enough time digging.
Parent
Re:My advice to you (Score:5, Insightful)
This would be an incredible teaching aid. Students could be shown (not just told) how technology has advanced over 25 years. Real, side-by-side comparisons could be demonstrated using simple programs designed to run on both the new and old systems (first-hand demonstration of backwards compatibility, performance comparisons, etc). This could be an excellent system to teach the importance of efficiency in programming.
When my son is old enough to have an actual computer, I plan on giving him a system that has limited capabilities so I can teach him on a system that doesn't provide built-in distractions (I'll probably pick something newer than 25 years though). Of course, I'll teach him BASIC first, then maybe COBOL and some other simple languages before introducing him to modern languages and objects.
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