Incandescent Bulbs Return To the Cutting Edge 569
Posted
by
timothy
from the abstract-standards-mean-more-flexibility dept.
from the abstract-standards-mean-more-flexibility dept.
lee1 writes "A law in the US that is due to take effect in 2012 mandates such tough efficiency
standards for lightbulbs that it has been assumed, until recently, that
it would kill off the incandescent bulb. Instead, the law has become a
case study of the way government regulation can inspire technical
innovation. For example, new incandescent technology from Philips that
seals the traditional filament inside a small capsule (which itself is
contained within the familiar bulb). The capsule has a coating that
reflects heat back to the filament, where it is partially converted to
light. The sophisticated ($5.00) bulbs are about 30% more efficient than the
old-fashioned ($0.25) kind, and should last about three times as long.
So they are less economical than compact fluorescents, but should emit a
more pleasing spectrum, not contain mercury, and, one supposes, present
the utility company with a more desirable power factor."
lasers? (Score:5, Informative)
There was an article a month or so ago about how this guy used lasers to (I'm guessing) increase the surface area on the filament, thus increasing efficiency by something like 40%.
http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3385 [rochester.edu]
Maybe both can be used for a super-lightbulb?
-xed
30% efficiency gain is even easier: (Score:4, Informative)
Stick a halogen light bulb inside an incandescent light bulb. That's what they sell around here to replace incandescent bulbs once they're no longer sold. Nice spectrum, no warm-up time, longer lifetime than the incandescent bulb it replaces, 30% less energy used compared to the incandescent.
Re:only 30% more efficient? (Score:5, Informative)
The "mercury" issue should be easily solved by disposing the bulbs in the correct way
Breakage - accidents happen in the home, office and ...... car(?) OK forget the car for now. the is the list of steps to safely dispose of broken CFL coils (bulbs) -
Before Clean-up: Ventilate the Room
1. Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.
2. Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.
3. Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces
4. Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
5. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
6. Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes and place them in the glass jar or plastic bag.
7. Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.
Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug
8. Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
9. Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
10. If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.
11. Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.
Disposal of Clean-up Materials
12. Immediately place all cleanup materials outside the building in a trash container or outdoor protected area for the next normal trash.
13. Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.
14. Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states prohibit such trash disposal and require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.
Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Ventilate the Room During and After Vacuuming
15. The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window prior to vacuuming.
16. Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.
a great way to spend the afternoon, huh?
Re:Canada eh! (Score:3, Informative)
Your missing the part where heat rises. Unless you are pointing a fan at your light bulbs you are only warming a small section of your ceiling.
Re:Canada eh! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:lasers? (Score:2, Informative)
This is ridiculous. I've been using Philips HalogenA bulbs for about 15years already, how the fuck is this EVEN SLIGHTLY news? They have an excellent spectrum, are pricey and last about three times as long a a cheap incandescant. The NYT story is pure marketing to the ignorant, but HalogenA is an excellent product that deserves a wider audience.
LED Lamps (Score:3, Informative)
LED are already here, costs still high but they beat flourescents bulbs in life span and energy consume, and lightup instantaneously.
Re:LED Lamps (Score:2, Informative)
Re:LED Lamps (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I'm sorry but... (Score:5, Informative)
hum, hum...
Incandescent: 2.0-2.2% efficiency
Halogen: 2.4-2.9% efficiency
Compact fluorescent: 8â"11% efficiency
We are far from your 5% and 75% efficiency...But your point is valid but not so staggering...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Examples_2 [wikipedia.org]
Re:only 30% more efficient? (Score:2, Informative)
Dude, I still can't even recycle without driving my junk 5 miles away, and even then they blocked off the glass collection containers because people were putting green bottles in the clear bottles bin and clear bottles in the green bottles bin.
So I can basically recycle newspaper (which I don't get a newspaper) and plastic bottles (which is usually on the order of 2 milk jugs a month, and I'll be damned if I keep those stinky sons of bitches around so long just to accumulate enough to warrant a 10 mile round trip to recycle them. Even if you wash them out with hot water and a bit of soap, they still start sinking after a few weeks.
Re:only 30% more efficient? (Score:4, Informative)
Huh, 2 tablespoons of Mercury weigh a pound? What planet are these guys living on? They're off by a factor of _ten_ (22 tablespoons of Mercury weigh about a pount, assuming 15 ml per Tsp).
huh? you need to go back to either a science class or a math class.
density of mercury = 13.534 g/cm^3 (cm^3 = milliliter)
1 pound = 453.59237 grams
1 pound of mercury = 453.59237 / 13.53400 = 33.5150266 ml
33.5150266 ml = 2.26655574 US tablespoons
Re:lasers? (Score:5, Informative)
Philips already has production tungsten halogen bulbs with standard bayonet and screw fittings ('EcoClassic 50' here in the UK) that only use about 50% of the power required by conventional tungsten lamps:
http://www.lighting.philips.com/gl_en/news/press/innovations/2008/home_ecoclassic.php?main=global&parent=4390&id=gl_en_news&lang=en [philips.com]
Right now these are only available in lower wattages, and the 100W replacement still draws 70W like those in the NYT article ('EcoClassic 30' over here). But it looks like existing technologies should be able to bring down the power consumption of this class of bulbs across the board. Lots of details, teardowns of current devices and predictions of future developments here:
http://www.eceee.org/press/B_Class_lamps/BClassHalogens_and_beyond-eceeeReportDecember12.pdf [eceee.org]
Re:only 30% more efficient? (Score:3, Informative)
I really should make a website akin to letmegooglethatforyou.
http://www29.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2+tablespoons+of+mercury+to+lbs [wolframalpha.com]
0.882 lbs.
Let's take a look, shall we?
Hg density: 13.534 g/cm^3
2 tablespoons is 29.57 cm^3
2 tablespoons of Hg: 29.57 cm^3 * 13.534 g/cm^3 .882 lbs
Result: 400.2 g ~=
Re:Canada eh! (Score:1, Informative)
Heat doesn't rise - hot air rises in colder air. Heat is a property (thermal energy) and not a stuff itself. My Physics teacher at school used to stick "Bullsh1t" stickers over any statement like "Heat rises".
Re:not just that (Score:3, Informative)
The ironic thing is that the fluorescent bulbs are closer to sunlight in color. Sunlight is not yellowish (unless it's near the horizon). Nevertheless, I know what you're talking about. I've been using CFLs since the early 90s and am very used to them, but I still prefer the warmer light of tungsten.
The saddest thing to me about incandescent bulbs is how cheaply they're made. It's a huge waste. Bulbs can easily (but not as cheaply) be made to last for years, but you don't make as much money when your product is durable. Now that CFLs are so much more popular, the quality of them has dropped precipitously. The first bunch of bulbs I bought lasted for many years. Ones I buy today sometimes burn out within weeks.
Re:LED Lamps (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Light Bulbs...The LEAST of our worries (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A modest proposal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:only 30% more efficient? (Score:3, Informative)
Mercury is out there already. People with all these paranoid procedures are just being political, it's a fad. The only time I ever worry about mercury is when I go fishing in the local cesspool.
I have to agree with this. Yes, mercury is poisonous and harmful. Yes, people went mad from exposure to it. Thing is, the hatters and gold workers who went crazy and died often worked with gallons of the stuff, bare handed.
A CFL contains ~4mg of mercury. Higher quality ones like Philips, contain ~2.5mg.
From wikipedia: "The typical "fever thermometer" contains between 0.5 to 3 g (.3 to 1.7 dr) of elemental mercury.[3] Swallowing this amount of mercury would, it is said, pose little danger but the inhaling of the vapour could lead to health problems.[4]"
So a mercury thermometer contains between 100 and 1200 times the mercury, and eating the mercury 'poses little danger'. Breathing the vapor increases update, but still...
Using tape to pick up the glass/plastic is a good idea. My parents sometimes did that trick with regular old glass. Did a good job, didn't tear the vacuum up.
Personally, I'd take the opportunity to buy a slightly better bulb - one with a coating of shatter resistant plastic or something.
Re:only 30% more efficient? (Score:3, Informative)
OK, besides the fact this is completely paranoid, the rest of the article was equally interesting and revealing: http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf [energystar.gov]
We're not talking a lot of mercury here, in fact, we're talking about 2 mg. Also, this is NOT liquid mercury (elemental mercury) but a mercury compund, and exposure limits are increased accodringly.
The contamination levels for acceptible CONTINUAL mercury exposure are 0.1MG/m^2. and that's the AIRBORNE contamination levels... As mercury in the form inside a CF is not only a solid powder, but even if it is broken, much of this remains inside the tubes, and is never released. About 0.3gms is typically released from a broken bulb, and most of that is powder on the floor, not in the air. Since a typical room in a home is about 9-15m^2, this is far below acceptible CONTINUAL contamination levels. Yea, opening the window is a good idea to avoid immediate exposure, as it turning off fans in the room (though turning off the AC? the filter may actually catch some of it for you...) However, the powerderd mercury is easy to remove, and only micrograms will remain.
Also, it is considdered SAFE for drinking water to have up to 0.0001mg/liter. That means every 1000 litres of water you drink could have nearly 3 times the mercury released when breaking 1 bulb, and you;re not injecting all the mercury released from that bulb either... The alowable mercury in fish is 10 times higher, meaning every 100 pieces of fish you eat contains that same SAFE dosage again.
Also note from the EPA that using a CF releases DRAMATICALLY less Mercury into the air, since making electricty releases mercury into the air... in fact, the mercury in the bulb is maybe 10% of the total mercury pollution released over that bulbs lifespan. Also, bulbs disposed of in landfills are considdered safe, as all operating landfills are sealed from leaks before we start putting trash in them, and there has never been a confirmed contamination of a water supply from a landfil (water supplys have benn contaminated from leaks, buy only from facilities, spills, trucking, and other DIRECT contamination events, never from storage in a landfill).
manufacturers have also reduced the mercury content dramatically over the last 12-18 months, and it continues not only to fall, but methods of ensuring less is released in a breakage have been introduced.
There is really nothing to fear, unless you plan on licking your floor clean after you break a bulb. (keeping pets away until it;s been properly scrubbed/vacuumed may still be a good idea though).
Re:CFL's can't be used everwhere (Score:3, Informative)
I have a CF in my oven. it cam ethat way new.
I have about 20 dimmable CFs. They work great, and have a range from about 20% to 90% of an equavalent CF. I have 60watt 5000K dimmers. They were about $12 a bulb when i got em, they're about $6 now.
If you buy the cheap crap Walmart pushes, you get cheap crap... Look online at one of the many 1000+ bulb stores, check the ratings on each bulb, and it;s FULL stats (temp, range, watts, lumens, etc).
You'll also not that the ban taking effect in 2012 actually only covers 100w and higher incandescents. In 2014 the ban would extend down to 40w bulbs, and all bulbs (including current CFs) need to be 30% more efficient than today. By 2020, all incandescents will be banned completely, and bulbs need to be 70% more efficient.
Currently excluded from the ban are bulbs under 310 lumes and over 2600 lumens (roughly sub 40w and past 150w.) Also exempt are several classes of speciality lights, including APPLIANCE LAMPS, "rough service" bulbs, 3-way bulbs, colored lamps, and plant lights. Further, bulbs that don't fit the traditional home socket are excluded, and in 2014 that only extends to the mini version as well. (candellabra socket). Also of note, office style long tube florecents are also being changed to a new standard bulb type (100% compatible with existing fixtures), that is much more efficient and also offers higher quality light (T8?)
Re:Canada eh! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Dimmer Savior! (Score:3, Informative)
What I have seen are older ones that use a standard triac, using a diac and an RC pair to trigger the triac, and newer "electronic dimmer" ones that turn off the AC early, rather than turning it on late like the older ones. I haven't seen anyone selling PWM dimmers, if by that you mean converting the AC sine wave into a square wave and varying the on/off time. That'd be a very nice way to run a dimmer, but it would be a bit complicated and expensive and consumers are unbelievably unwilling to pay extra for anything.
If you have seen any actual PWM dimmers I'd be interested in knowing the brand name so I could get some and take them apart.
Re:lasers? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Silly questions (Score:4, Informative)
Mythbusters covered your question a while back. It turns out that the startup energy for fluorescent bulbs was equal to about 23 seconds of runtime. So if you're going to be leaving the room for more than 23 seconds, turn off the bulb.
-b
Re:lasers? (Score:3, Informative)
> * You buy the, absolute, cheapest CF bulbs possible.
That's it. You can't honestly be surprised that most people will buy the cheapest blister-pack Costco-special CF bulbs. The kind that have significant warm-up time, high infant mortality rate and shorter than average life. And throw them in the trash when they quit. It's the nature of consumerism.
Re:Only on paper (Score:3, Informative)
Frankfort Indiana is a good example (my wife's home town). They used to be dependent upon a handful of large factories that have all closed down and moved overseas. Now they are dependent upon a larger number of smaller factories that have moved into town after the big boys left. The town is still dependent upon manufacturing jobs and that is why they could be very strongly affected by cap and trade. The factories have remained because of the low cost of living (Indiana is one of the 5 cheapest states to live in), large trainable work force, and concessions they were able to wring out of a desperate city. The average wage for a factory worker has decreased relative to the cost of living and inflation over the years in Frankfort. 30 years ago most of the factory workers were middle class whites, they are now mostly mexican immigrants who are willing to accept much less for the same work. Normally I have no problem with this, no one is entitled to a middle class salary, but the problem is that by law the wages can't get much lower. If these factories that are paying as little as possible to their employees, in a state known for having some of the lowest operating costs are forced to face increases in energy, they may well decide that the benefits no longer out weigh the costs.
Trusting China to do anything we want them to without getting it is writing is just silly. I could make the same argument about working conditions, human rights violations, or any other major geopolitical issue that the west has with them, and with equal accuracy. This is obviously outside the scope of this discussion, but you can feel free to trust China to do the "Right Thing" if you want, but since I've never seen them do it, I'm going to remain skeptical.