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By Design - US lags world in wireless features (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:By Design - US lags world in wireless features (Score:5, Insightful)
My experience with both, and T-Mobile is that they do not offer reduced rates if you intend to use a phone you acquired from another source. Their rate plans are all designed with the intent that they should subsidize the purchase of a new phone for much less money based on the entering of a long duration contract. In effect, the telecoms are financing your cell phone-except that if you already have one, you dont get a reduced rate.
The entire business model for the mobile telecoms revolves around contract pricing to subsidize reduced price phones, giving them extraordinary power over mobile handset manufacturers. In my mind, this tying arrangement is horrible for consumers because in effect, the handset manufacturers serve the telecoms, not the end users. The telecoms deem which features are allowed on their network and disallow any features that would conflict with their own profitable value-add services(such as uploading ringtones to a phone).
The FTC should have stepped in 10 years ago and realized there is no real competition among handset producers-the telecoms decide who the winners and losers are. If you want REAL competition among handset producers leading to technological advancement, you have to end the tying of phone purchases to cell contracts.
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Re:By Design - US lags world in wireless features (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want REAL competition among handset producers leading to technological advancement, you have to end the tying of phone purchases to cell contracts.
True, but even then you won't have REAL competition until you force them to be more open about various things. Like when you advertise "unlimited" data plans, what are the restrictions? Those plans aren't unlimited. Or why do SMS messages cost so much? What is the real status of each network's 3G rollout? Their 4G rollout? What are their real costs/profits?
I get much more upset about our wired data infrastructure, since there's pretty much zero competition in that space, but my objection is pretty much the same: If we're going to allow a private company to build out our national communications infrastructure, then that company should be forced to adhere to a higher standard of fairness and transparency. If there isn't sufficient competition (or even if the barrier to entry is too high) then they should also be heavily regulated.
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profits? (Score:3, Interesting)
For example, here are some "profit margin" numbers:
Verizon 6.4%
AT&T 10.12%
for comparison
Apple 14.9%
Microsoft 25%
and something boring, like food, ADM is at 2.7%
My Own Personal Experience (Score:5, Informative)
My experience with both, and T-Mobile is that they do not offer reduced rates if you intend to use a phone you acquired from another source. Their rate plans are all designed with the intent that they should subsidize the purchase of a new phone for much less money based on the entering of a long duration contract. In effect, the telecoms are financing your cell phone-except that if you already have one, you dont get a reduced rate.
Really? Here's my recent experience:
I was recently looking to upgrade my phone. My last phone was from ATT with a two year contract, and I wanted something more updated and faster. When I signed the contract, I was able to get unlimited data added for $15/mo. (they no longer offer this plan) So I looked around for a while and debated between the subsidized Nokia E71x, or an unlocked Nokia model. Now the ATT subsidized Nokia was only $99 after rebate, with of course another two year contract. An unlocked Nokia E75 was $399 after $50 rebate.
However, the subsidized E71x required their PDA/Smartphone data package which is $30/mo - that seemed pretty ridiculous because I was currently getting unlimited data at $15/mo. After talking with an ATT rep, I found that if I bought an unlocked phone I could either grandfather in my old plan and leave it be with the data at $15/mo, or I could upgrade my plan to a current package and tack on unlimited data for only $10/mo! The reason is that ATT cannot force an unsubsidized phone to use their "special" data plans tailored for their subsidized models (please - $30/mo just because the phone has a QWERTY?)
You can do the math. Needless to say, although I've spent more money upfront on a phone, I can recover the cost before two years. If the phone lasts/stays with me longer than two years, I'll be saving even more from it.
Btw, not only are unlocked phones nicer to have in case of travelling/switching providers, you also aren't stuck with the customized provider firmware that they slap onto the phone. From past experiences I've found that the branded firmware often limits advanced functionality.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You obviously haven't had to deal with Sprint customer service yet.
Nope, but boy did I ever have "dealings" with Verizon customer service! Sprint can't possibly be worse.
You are aware that Verizon will have the Pre in about six months, aren't you?
I would be willing to bet you that Verizon won't offer the Pre in 6 months. Hell, it'll take 'em longer than that to figure out how to get it to run BREW.
I am sick up to here of crippled Verizon phones. It would take a lot to convince me ever to use Verizon again.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Ed Whiteacre helped create the net neutrality movement by claiming that providers like Google should pay for the content they deliver even though they and each of their users are already paying for their connections.
He started with SBC and after a number of acquistions renamed the company to AT&T. He's a take no-prisoners, trample the employees and customers kind of guy. If AT&T is getting better, I'd guess it's because he's no longer there.
Do people actually think VZW will be any better? (Score:2, Insightful)
VZW is notorious for charging for everything .. people put up with it due to verizon has outstanding voice quality and good speed for data. As much as you all want LTE it's at least 2 years away to have adequate coverage so Apple needs to either suck it up and make a short term CDMA based iPhone or wait and make a LTE based with CDMA backband so you have coverage anywhere outside of major metro areas. Not to mention you think carriers are going to roll out faster networks and reduce data prices? Bandwidth a
Re:Do people actually think VZW will be any better (Score:4, Informative)
Actually they will, after they and your new carrier merge.
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Favorite Quote (Score:5, Insightful)
Disagree (Score:2)
"Just as the old AT&T stifled landline innovation in the 20th century, the new AT&T is stifling wireless innovation in the 21st."
My Palm Pre [palm.com] and I haven't noticed AT&T stifling much of anything... ;) What's an iPhone, again?
Re: (Score:2)
Oh? How exactly is this? Can no other wireless carriers compete on the same turf? Oh! They can now!
AT&T had a stranglehold on landlines at the time, and that's how they managed to hold back 'innovation'. They do not have the market on wireless phones cornered, nor are they close.
If you don't like them, don't sign up for their service!
Re:Favorite Quote (Score:5, Informative)
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Not just AT&T, folks (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a Verizon customer. They have HORRID billing practices (throw in lots of ambiguous "fees" and then wait for you to call and bitch about this $20 and that $16 charge before removing them) and downright deceptive marketing.
I have a WinMo smartphone (The HTC Mogul, and it's a pretty cool phone, feels to be about Win'95 as far as its O/S) and (of course) need a data plan. Vzw has two dataplans, the $30 "consumer" plan, and the $45 "corporate" plan. I asked what the difference is, since they both have unlimited data usage, since I didn't want to pay $15/mo more for a feature that I didn't need.
I was explained that the corporate account is designed for people who access company email and intranet applications, while the cheaper plan is for home users. I asked if they actually block connections with the $30 plan, and was assured that they did not. I went with the cheaper plan, and have had no trouble at all connecting to my corporate mail server.
In other words, Verizon wireless charges a $15/mo 'stupid tax' for anybody who wants to use a smart phone for business since their consumer plan offers the same actual functionality. I wonder just how many people are paying this $180/year 'stupid tax'?
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Re:Not just AT&T, folks (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a Verizon customer. They have HORRID billing practices (throw in lots of ambiguous "fees"
That's another little problem that I'm sure we're all familiar with: all the "taxes" and "fees" on your cell phone bill. Why are they allowed to do that?
If I were running a store and I advertised an item for $50, but when you came in to buy it I said, "Well, it's $50, plus sales tax, plus another $10 to cover various taxes associated with running my store, plus another $5 in fees," what would happen? I would guess I'd get in trouble for false advertising. Yet my $40 cell phone bill always comes out $60. Every single month.
Personally, I've always thought it was kind of silly that advertised prices don't already include sales tax, but cell phone plans definitely take it too far.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you read through the "unlimited" for home use is "*unlimited based on our internal estimation of how much a home user should use per month".
The corporate unlimited is truly unlimited.
Not a stupid tax, but just as deceptive.
I thought... (Score:4, Funny)
...paying extra for stuff was considered a feature by Apple users.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Paying extra to Apple for Apple stuff is considered a feature by Apple users.
"Will AT&T Charge Extra?" (Score:5, Funny)
Finally, proof there IS such a thing as a dumb question! Congratulations! Was this one of the Millennium Problems?
Re:"Will AT&T Charge Extra?" (Score:5, Funny)
funny thing.. dealing with verison (after they bought MCI).. we dropped our t1 with MCI back in Nov 07.. after they came and removed equipment we continued to get bills.. I just findly resolved all of that about 2 months ago (yes nearly 2 years alter).. just last month i got a bill again.. but this time it wasn't for service..
the bastards had the nerve to bill me for the postage and paper they send the previous bills on - as it was a "fee" that is normally included with service but as we didn't have "service" we had to pay the fee separate.. i enjoyed ripping their phone people a new one
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Maybe it doesn't make sense to allow tethering (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Maybe it doesn't make sense to allow tethering (Score:5, Insightful)
I never understood the point of MMS on an iPhone considering you can bloody E-MAIL photos to people...
If your buddy doesn't have a phone that can do email, how can you get it on his phone? Most phones can do MMS.
The fact that iPhone can't do MMS is pretty sad.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
iPhones receive a link to ATT's gateway via SMS when someone sends them an MMS.
ATT's gateway works maybe 4%-5% of the time. Sometimes it reports no pic available, sometimes it just doesn't work and doesn't say why, sometimes it refuses the login credentials.
And speaking of login credentials, they arrive with the SMS. An alphanumeric code of about 8 digits and a concatenation of 2 words to be used as a password. These have to be written down on paper because clicking the link opens Safari but doesn't fill in
Re:Maybe it doesn't make sense to allow tethering (Score:5, Insightful)
Because its so hard to add 5556667777@mms.cellphone.com to a contact?
User friendly or not, it has always been incorrect to say that iPhone users cannot send pictures to MMS devices.
MMS was designed for use with camera phones with a bare bones OS. With email to MMS available, specific MMS support on smartphones is just keeping alive a technology that should die sooner rather than later.
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Re:Maybe it doesn't make sense to allow tethering (Score:4, Insightful)
It is a burden. MMS is convenient and easy. Sending email to an MMS email gateway is not.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Say what? The iPhone is the only smart phone I've ever seen that doesn't get MMS - I've had Blackberry's that do, a T-mobile MDA (WinMo), my Nokia N95 and Communicator.
Doesn't really matter in the short term. (Score:2, Insightful)
AT&T has Apple by the balls, and Apple has its fanbois by the balls. All of this complaining is just a smoke screen; they will gladly pay the extortionist prices because they are Apple fanbois and are used to it. In the short term AT&T will rake it in. In the long term, who knows? Businesses today aren't really concerned with the long term anyway. With any luck AT&T HQ will be attacked by Godzilla.
Re: One sided partnership (Score:3, Insightful)
AT&T could tell Apple to screw off, in which case they would lose iPhone exclusivity. Plenty of other carriers would beat Apple's door down to get either future model exclusivity, or at least availabilty on their network.
That would substantially reduce AT&T profit because there are plenty of iPhone users ready to switch carriers, and plenty potential users who won't even c
No MMS? (Score:2)
What, AT&T doesn't support MMS? Wow, the US truly have fallen behind!
Re:No MMS? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think AT&T simply doesn't have the capacity. The iPhone is the best selling smartphone in the US and is selling like hot cakes simply because we don't have anything like it in the market (except maybe the Android, but it's still far behind as far as functionality and only on T-Mobile which doesn't have decent coverage in many areas in the countries). This has already put a large strain on AT&T and MMS support and tethering is going to add to that. Being able to tether your phone used to cost you practically another plan and special phones (although my Nokia can technically do it, it doesn't have the software capabilities). But the iPhone is not controlled by AT&T so AT&T can't control who's tethering since it's going to look like you're just using your iPhone. If they block it, users will just download another providers' firmware or unlock it.
I believe that AT&T thought in the beginning: whatever, another smartphone for that niche group of Mac fans, no big deal but it has really changed the market and AT&T wasn't prepared. Since the iPhone everybody wants to surf the internet, their e-mails, cheap music downloads, now movie, in-app game and e-book downloads as well and they never had the capacity to begin with and many other vendors have followed with their own take on iPhone-knockoffs. We're supposed to have 3G on AT&T but in many areas this means less than 100 kbit/s which is only slightly faster than dial up simply because they only wired in about 1 Mbps (carrying compressed voice and GSM control) on your average pole . Now we want 7 Mbps HDSPA - you expect them to wire in something akin to Ethernet?
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I want more money! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I want more money! (Score:4, Interesting)
I am an iPhone customer, and I already pay for MMS - the messaging plan on the account includes unlimited MMS and SMS. AT&T actually blocks iPhone lines from accessing the MMS server, though.
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Then don't buy it! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sheesh, if you don't like AT&T's terms, then don't buy an iPhone. It's not like there aren't alternatives out there that provide nearly the same functionality.
Want to play their games? Use their apps? Get the iPod touch.
AT&T sucks balls (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong, we are happy enough with the iPhones that we will stay with AT&T as long as the exclusive agreement lasts, but listen up AT&T, you are expendable and we would GLADLY drop your ass. We and everyone else is fed up with your BS.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I can state definitively that the instant it is possible to part with AT&T we would do so. Don't get me wrong, we are happy enough with the iPhones that we will stay with AT&T as long as the exclusive agreement lasts, but listen up AT&T, you are expendable and we would GLADLY drop your ass.
So basically you like the iPhone so much that as long as the exclusivity agreement's in place, you'll put up with any amount of AT&T's crap and paying them anyway.
So presumably if the iPhone moves exclusively to another network, you'll go with *them* too.
Therefore, AT&T and/or other networks have no reason to care about or pay attention to your complaints or threats, only to ensure that they have (and continue to have) the iPhone exclusivity agreement.
AT&T "backpeddling furiously" (Score:2, Funny)
And they didn't trip? They must be on sure footing.
I'm putting out a "buy" signal on AT&T shares.
Why ask a question you already know the answer to (Score:2)
Come on, tethering is charged for all over the U.S. cell space. Of course it will be extra.
The only real question is MMS, the rumors are that may be free but I am dubious. Since I think MMS is an ancient technology that should die, I'll continue to send images (and soon video) via email just as I do today.
Bypassing corporate restrictions (Score:3, Interesting)
Once this is out, Tether your iPhone to your work PC via USB or Bluetooth. Create a connection through the iPhone to the Internet. (With T-Mobile phones you can alread do this, but it's so expensive.)
Most companies do URL filtering at the gateway. With tethering you bypass such filtering restrictions.
In the USA;
If I browse adult stuff at work on works PC and Internet connection, work can be held libel.
If I browse adult stuff on the iPhone at work using my own Internet connect, it is less likely that work can be held libel.
But what if I provide my own wireless Internet connection and bypass the filters work has in place?
I speak as one who does the filtering, not one who is trying to bypass them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In the USA; If I browse adult stuff at work on works PC and Internet connection, work can be held libel. If I browse adult stuff on the iPhone at work using my own Internet connect, it is less likely that work can be held libel.
But what if I provide my own wireless Internet connection and bypass the filters work has in place?
I speak as one who does the filtering, not one who is trying to bypass them.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Once this is out, Tether your iPhone to your work PC via USB or Bluetooth. Create a connection through the iPhone to the Internet. (With T-Mobile phones you can alread do this, but it's so expensive.)
Most companies do URL filtering at the gateway. With tethering you bypass such filtering restrictions.
In the USA;
If I browse adult stuff at work on works PC and Internet connection, work can be held libel.
If I browse adult stuff on the iPhone at work using my own Internet connect, it is less likely that work can be held libel.
But what if I provide my own wireless Internet connection and bypass the filters work has in place?
I speak as one who does the filtering, not one who is trying to bypass them.
The answer, as with all legal matters is: "Talk to a lawyer." If you're working for a company with corporate policies, then they likely have lawyers, whom you can talk to. However, you're likely not responsible for making or enforcing corporate policy.
Now, that said, the first thing to know is that browsing or viewing adult content at work in the USA is a big no no, no matter how you're accessing it. Viewing adult content in any way that can create a situation where someone else can see it, is a sexual h
Leverage (Score:4, Interesting)
This is AT&T trying to get back some leverage in their relationship with Apple.
Right now:
* If you are on AT&T already, either you have an iPhone or you want one.
* If you aren't on AT&T, the only reason to switch to it is to get the iPhone.
* The iPhone is still a great device without AT&T, but AT&T is not great without the iPhone.
By withholding tethering and MMS and not having a 7.2Mbps network in place, AT&T will try to make Apple look bad. AT&T will miss the "late-summer" "deadline" and they are gambling that pressure will grow on Apple to do something about it. Apple can't do anything about it and AT&T will use this in 2010 contract negotiations as a bargaining chip.
AT&T is wagering the backlash against Apple will be worse than the backlash against themselves and that they will get concessions from Apple that will make them the most attractive iPhone carrier even after they lose exclusivity.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
[AT&T] are gambling that pressure will grow on Apple to do something about it.
Like what exactly is Apple supposed to do? Public pressure won't make Apple suddenly give back it's cut of the handset subsidy, which I imagine is the biggest bone of contention.
AT&T is wagering the backlash against Apple will be worse than the backlash against themselves
If that's their strategy they're already far behind; they should have had someone up-front at WWDC putting their spin on it. Apple's had the opportunity now to demonstrate the new iPhone features, and show that they work everywhere but under AT&T. All media reports have done exactly what Apple wanted; they revealed the new fe
Why Don't They Charge Me? (Score:3, Informative)
I have an original Samsung Blackjack (i607).
It's a Windows Mobile phone (5, and Samsung put out a new image with 6 for free).
My unlimited 3G data plan is $25 / month.
I can tether my phone to my PC/Laptop/whatever and use it as a modem.
This is a feature of the phone, and not the wireless carrier. The wireless carrier has no idea what's going on. My phone gets data as it would regardless of whether or not I'm tethering. My phone then sends that over USB to my device (my phone doesn't have WiFi).
I'll never be "upgrading" my contract with AT&T.
Or OTOH... (Score:4, Funny)
Or they were told not to spoil the festive atmosphere of the party with a line that was sure to bring out the Boo Birds bigtime.
MMS: no. Tethering: yes, +$30. (Score:3, Insightful)
Tethering, on the other hand, they absolutely *will* charge for. You can opt for the "official" tethering ability on the Blackberry and other PDA data plans. It costs and additional $30 month (for 5GB of data) on top of the $30/month data plan. Considering that many of these phones have 3G, I see no reason why they'd charge differently for iPhone 3G tethering. Unless, of course, they want to.
I'm not saying that I think it's ok to charge another $30 for "more-unlimited" data. It's asinine. Unlimited data should be unlimited data. And it clearly isn't. But anyway, those "in the know" understand that it's trivial to tether _right now_ with a stock iPhone. Just pick up a Samsung Sync for $25 off eBay. Use it + your iPhone SIM + bluetooth/USB cable to connect to your favorite PC/Mac/Linux machine. Poof. 3G tethering. Yes, it's against the TOS but AT&T historically hasn't cared so long as you don't abuse it. Of course, they could crack down on this if they wanted to.... YMMV + use at your own risk.
Laptop users use lot more bandwidth (Score:3, Interesting)
With unlimited dataplans the laptop use dominates traffic volume. I do not remember now exact figures, but in one European network more than 95% of traffic volume is from laptops. The network has unlimited dataplans starting from 9.95€
It is funny to see US carriers to cripple phones to save their business model.
AT&T allows both tethering and MMS (Score:3, Insightful)
So just to take a dispassionate look at this.
First, AT&T's network supports MMS and tethering just fine. I use connection share on my Windows Mobile smart phone via Bluetooth all the time. No problems. I send MMS on the AT&T network all the time as well. So I'm not sure why there are so many stories that suggest the AT&T network is incapable of doing this. I'm not sure about the HSDPA, but for GPRS... there really isn't any effective way for AT&T to prevent you from using connection sharing. And you can put any GSM phone on their network.
Second, how many iPhones are on AT&T's network? Three and a half million, maybe? With over 75 million subscribers the idea that 4% are going to overload the MMS or GPRS infrastructure is crazy. That stuff is so over-built at AT&T that they hardly sweat. Now, RF capacity might be a different story... but I rarely see any articles even mention that. And its hardly an iPhone specific problem.
AT&T definitely benefits from its deal with Apple. AT&T definitely wants to maintain an exclusive deal. So how could they be dictating to Apple? To me it looks like Apple is the ones who either want rules changed for their benefit or some other concession. You build a phone to the GSMA spec, AT&T can't stop you from allowing people to share the GPRS connection. You can definitely turn MMS service on and off per MSISDN... but it has nothing to do with the device. Why do it?
None of it makes economic sense. Generally, mobile providers are selling phones at a loss or at cost if you don't sign up for a contract. I don't see how AT&T has an interest in crippling Apple phones. All they want is the subscribers. The more people who think an iPhone is good to by... the better.
O2 are charging for tethering in the UK (Score:3, Informative)
MMS is simple (Score:3, Interesting)
Its not about AT&T wanting to charge for MMS, its about the fact that their MMSC servers arent up to the task of all those iPhone users sending MMSs. And the fact that there is no easy way to disable the MMS redirect only for phones that have MMS support.