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Nintendo Unconcerned By Motion-Control Competitors 150

Posted by Soulskill
from the it's-not-the-size-of-the-boat dept.
The Guardian's games blog reports on comments by Nintendo discussing why it's not worried about competition from Microsoft and Sony after their recent motion-control announcements at E3. Nintendo's Reggie Fils-Aime said, "The only thing I'll say is a rhetorical question. Is it fun? If it's fun, then I tip my hat and say, 'Well done.' But what's happening sounds to me a lot like, 'Who's got the prettiest picture. Who's got high-definition. Who has the best processing power?' It sounds like technology, when the consumer wants to be entertained. Our focus is how do we take active play and make it entertainment. And that's what we're going to continue to focus on."
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Nintendo Unconcerned By Motion-Control Competitors

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  • by QuantumG (50515) * <qg@biodome.org> on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @03:55AM (#28276523) Homepage Journal

    Oh, and obligatory:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/6/5/ [penny-arcade.com]

  • by Max Romantschuk (132276) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @04:06AM (#28276565) Homepage

    Like with any console hardware... Games are the ultimate measure of success.

    If the games are good, the hardware fades away. There are great games for all three platforms. I'm happy with my Wii so far. Was a lot cheaper than the competition when I got it, and for me the family focus is a great asset. With four controllers I can have all kids entertained at the same time in something like Mario Kart Wii, and it's not like there aren't games for more mature gamers too... (Mad World, House of the Dead Overkill, Guitar Hero, I could go on.)

    There is no best or worst console out there at the moment. You should really just focus on what games you want to play and get a console or consoles based on that.

    • by hal2814 (725639)

      "Like with any console hardware... Games are the ultimate measure of success."

      Tell that to Sega. The Dreamcast had what was probably the best lineup of games ever assembled at a console launch and they followed it up with consistently good games. And hardware sales were great... until Sony promised the kitchen sink on the upcoming PS2. Then people stopped buying the Dreamcast and waited for the upcoming console with its own DVD player attached.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Roogna (9643)

        That's of course up to perspective. I've been an avid console player my entire life, and have owned most of them (remember the Atari Lynx? yeah, that one too). But when the Dreamcast came out I waited quite awhile before buying one, about midway through it's life. Why? None of the games at launch made me care at all. Perhaps that's one of the real problems the Dreamcast had, despite the vocal, the majority of gamers just weren't finding that much to play on it.

        And the PS2 kind of proves Nintendo's poi

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by rxan (1424721)

        It's ironic that you mentioned the DVD player. Really, it was one of the reasons that the PS2 was so successful. I remember people were buying the things for watching movies alone.

        Years later, PS3 comes out with Bluray and it nearly kills Sony. They had huge losses last year. People aren't flocking to Bluray like they did with DVDs.

        More interesting though is: what will happen next generation? Will there be another disc format beyond Bluray, or is it all digital from here on out? Sony has used their cons

      • by AuMatar (183847)

        Sega had other issues- after the Sega CD->32x->Saturn debacle we had no reason to trust that it would continue to support the Dreamcast. I got burned enough on the Sega CD to never buy a Sega console again.

    • What my wife and I want to know is when are they going to release a golf game for the wii that has the simple play style of wii sports but lets you select some of the more famous courses in the world. That and Mario Kart 2..
  • Project natal (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MemoryDragon (544441) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @04:14AM (#28276593)

    While technologically impressive I have one problem with it, missing force feedback control and no additional controllers outside of behaviors. I cannot see this thing going anywhere except for some sports (especially fitness) games without it.

    The sony technology was very close to nintendo however, but there at least force feedback probably will be possible, but additional fine grained controls like nintendo has it on the wiimote also still are missing but could be added theoretically!

    However Nintendo should be worried, because of the lack of HD support and their absymal performance in the games area 2008 (which slowly is changing this year).

    • by Goffee71 (628501)
      Use Natal and a touchscreen, do you get a consumer-priced version of this > http://apcmag.com/selling-windows-7-this-should-do-it.htm [apcmag.com] That'd make for great PC gaming fun, never mind these weiner consoles
    • by Xest (935314)

      Force feedback is a hack.

      It was designed to try and help immerse people in games better but within the limitation that you still had to use a controller.

      The whole idea of Natal is moving beyond the controller, immersing people in the game by allowing them to interact directly. Will it work? I have no idea, but to suggest force feedback is important to something like this (hell, Sony didn't even think it was important to their normal controllers but the PS3 still sold well) misses the point of what Natal is

      • Re:Project natal (Score:4, Insightful)

        by vux984 (928602) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @04:59AM (#28276855)

        Force feedback is a hack.

        Not really more than 3D graphics are a hack.

        It was designed to try and help immerse people in games better but within the limitation that you still had to use a controller.

        Ditto for 3D graphics. Help immerse people in games better within the limitation that you still have to look at a screen.

        Similiar force feedback is trying to compensate for the fact that that you can't feel anything from the game world... when a rocket explodes, when your car crashes, when your jet is starting to stall, when you take a punch, when you foul a ball... force feedback can't (and in some cases [car crash] shouldn't be entirely realistic, but it helps. I like the way Need For Speed gives you different feedback for different driving surfaces... and how you can actually feel your tires start to skip as you make a tight turn. This is genuinely useful feedback on top of the audio and visual feedback.

        The whole idea of Natal is moving beyond the controller, immersing people in the game by allowing them to interact directly.

        You can't really interact directly without a sense of touch.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Xest (935314)

          May I direct you here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw [youtube.com]

          To see that you can increase the level of immersion without the need for holding a controller that provides force feedback?

          Force feedback and 3D graphics cater to the idea that a game world is still something displayed on a flat screen and interacted with only via the controller. As the above demo shows, there are better ways to interact with the game world than simply by playing around with a controller using your hands.

          Natal will be able to

          • by grumbel (592662)

            Just for the record, some Sony engineer had a techdemo of head tracking up and running a year or so ago. So it seems easy enough to add to Sonys solution. And with that out of the way I don't see much of Natal being left that is useful for hardcore gaming. When both your hands grab the 360 controller, you can't do all that much gesturing. So unless Microsoft comes up with an additional split controller, Natal seems rather limited.

            whilst it can have similar applications

            The crux is that Natal can't do a lot of what Nintendo and Sonys solutions can

            • by Xest (935314)

              I don't really see what it can't do?

              Again, the important thing to realise with Natal is that it doesn't exclude the use of additional peripherals, but it does open up new doors on top of that. I think you're making the mistake of many others in thinking that Natal is just a camera, it's not, it's a system capable of full blown motion tracking in 3D space which means you can in fact just point at things.

              Effectively you can still produce peripherals like light guns, but they needn't contain any electronics an

              • by grumbel (592662)

                I don't really see what it can't do?

                Wrist detection, exact detection of button presses, pointing and so on. Basically everything that matters. To take a step back: The way humans consciously interact with the world is for most part just with their hands, while your arms and legs and rest of the body follow more or less automatically, you simply don't think much about them when you move around. What Natal does is putting a heavy emphasis on detecting your arms and legs, i.e. all those things that work automatically, while ignoring the hands th

                • by Xest (935314)

                  "Wrist detection, exact detection of button presses, pointing and so on. Basically everything that matters. To take a step back: The way humans consciously interact with the world is for most part just with their hands, while your arms and legs and rest of the body follow more or less automatically, you simply don't think much about them when you move around. What Natal does is putting a heavy emphasis on detecting your arms and legs, i.e. all those things that work automatically, while ignoring the hands t

                  • by grumbel (592662)

                    Hmm, I'm not really sure what else to say about this as it's simply wrong.

                    I like how people make baseless claims. Look at the elephant silhouette demo, detection is not precise enough for real detail. None of the demos have shown finger detection, not even their advertisment video which was all a made up future-vision to begin. How do you think it can do finger detection?

                    It's been pointed out quite clearly that Natal and work all the way down to hands and fingers,

                    Where? Source please.

                    I'm not sure what more can be said. It can work with again 48 key joints

                    Its 48 *points* not joints, which doesn't really tell us much, because you might need multiple points to reconstruct a joint from the data.

                    I'm guessing you only saw a few tech demos?

                    I have seen all of them and all of them support my c

                    • by Xest (935314)

                      "Where? Source please."

                      http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2009296568_e3_new_info_on_microsofts_nata.html [nwsource.com]

                      http://kotaku.com/5279531/microsoft-project-natal-can-support-multiple-players-see-fingers [kotaku.com]

                      "Its 48 *points* not joints, which doesn't really tell us much, because you might need multiple points to reconstruct a joint from the data."

                      Sorry yes to be pedantic you're correct, but of course interest points aren't redundant, you wouldn't have two on the same arm for example, you may

                    • by grumbel (592662)

                      Apart from recognising exactly those motions as we've been through over and over here?

                      Where is the golf game that demonstrates that? Where is the tennis game? Where is the detection of wrist movement? I repeat: *NONE* of the demos showed any of that. And the elephant silhouette demo makes it very unlikely that the precision for that is there (have you even looked at that?). Ricochet doesn't show hand detection either, it simply shows a half open hand the whole time, no movement of individual fingers. I welcome a link to a video that actually shows hand and finger movement, I am still waiting

                    • by Xest (935314)

                      Yes, that's what most fanboys tell themselves too. That it's always the other person. It doesn't matter how much evidence, how many resources the other person can provide to back up their claims, the fanboy doesn't need to do the same, all they have to do is speculate in return because they're right.

                      Come back with some actual evidence, and you might have a point, until then, all you're doing is speculating, guessing and outright making things up.

                    • by grumbel (592662)

                      Come back with some actual evidence, and you might have a point, until then, all you're doing is speculating, guessing and outright making things up.

                      You don't get it. You are the one claiming that Natal can do something that isn't shown in a single demo. I don't believe you because I have seen nothing that shows finger detection, thats all.

                      Lets try something else: Lets just assume for a moment that all Natal can do is arm and leg detection. Now go back and watch all the tech demos and the product vision videos again. Which of those demos would be impossible to produce with just arm and leg detection? Name one and you might have a point.

                      It would also be

                    • by Xest (935314)

                      "Lets try something else: Lets just assume for a moment that all Natal can do is arm and leg detection. Now go back and watch all the tech demos and the product vision videos again. Which of those demos would be impossible to produce with just arm and leg detection? Name one and you might have a point."

                      You mean like the Burnout one where he uses just his foot to accelerate?

                      You're still making shit up even, I've not suggested ricochet and paint detect fingers, I'm pointing out that they detect wrist movement

                    • by grumbel (592662)

                      You mean like the Burnout one where he uses just his foot to accelerate?

                      Try again. You use your leg to accelerate, not the foot, listen to the voice right at the start of this video [youtube.com]. You can find the same info in other sources. No foot detection, just which leg is forward determines if you break or accelerate. Which again, confirms my point.

                      If you could at least explain why you don't think anything other than leg and arm recognition is possible even though it's demonstrated right in front of you

                      It hasn't been demonstrated (neutral hand position != detection) and the elephant silhouette demo shows a clear lack of precision (which you continue to ignore).

                  • by feepness (543479)

                    Again, have you seen the actual promotional demos showing it in use in actual games rather than just the tech demos? Have a look here:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oACt9R9z37U [youtube.com]

                    "Product vision: Actual features and functionality may vary."

                    Though I must admit, this video does also demonstrate that Natal is psychic as well, since the dinosaur at about 1:20 starts moving AHEAD of the kid.

          • So you say realism is improved because you cannot feel things!

            • by Xest (935314)

              No, realism is improved because you can directly interact with things rather than having to be forced to go through an external device that bears no resemblance to how you interact in real life. You do not have a weird shaped device with buttons in your hand (well, maybe you do, but I'd hope not) when you go and talk to people, when you fire a gun, when you play football and so on.

              That's quite a big difference.

      • Sony have released Dual Shock controllers for the PS3 now, they couldn't release them at first because of a patent lawsuit AFAIK.

        Anyway, force feedback is a different thing from simple vibration/'rumble pack' type stuff. It would be impossible to do force feedback on full body movement unless you are wearing some kind of suit or are being moved around by robotic arms etc :P Only joysticks and steering wheels do force feedback; joypads, mice, etc just rumble.

        • by Xest (935314)

          I think regarding the patent lawsuit that probably was the real reason. Microsoft had the same issue but simply paid for a patent license so, so I think there is some truth in what Sony said that they as a company didn't feel any kind of feedback was important - but not simply that it wasn't important, just that they didn't feel it was important enough to pay the license for it I guess.

          You're right about forcefeedback too, it really is just rumble as you say. I still actually have my old force feedback stic

          • Yeah there haven't been many interesting space or flight sims in the last few years. It's definitely one of the major oversights in the current PS3 catalogue of games at least. I hope Elite IV doesn't go the way of Duke Nukem Forever..

    • Re:Project natal (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rbarreira (836272) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @05:26AM (#28277005) Homepage

      However Nintendo should be worried, because of the lack of HD support and their absymal performance in the games area 2008 (which slowly is changing this year).

      In other words, they shouldn't be worried. Most people don't understand or care about HD. I'm sure you've seen people buying huge TVs and then connecting them with composite cables to their DVD player. They're happy about it too.

      Nintendo is still selling at more than 50% market share (even though total market share is not quite there yet), and they keep breaking PS2's sales records. The Wii is doing fine.

    • by grumbel (592662)

      I think the biggest issue with Natal will be detection accuracy and lack of buttons/joysticks. So far everything we have seen of Natal shows that it can only detect arms and legs, but not feet, hand or wrist movement. This means that the control will be really limited in what it can do, i.e. everything that requires the use of a "tool" (tenis, golf, FPS, etc.) won't work properly, as there is no way for Natal to figure out how exactly you are holding the tool. Same goes for lack of buttons and joysticks, be

  • by realcoolguy425 (587426) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @04:21AM (#28276635)
    Stop sitting on quality games that have been released in Japan and release them elsewhere! I'm still waiting on fatal frame for the wii, and won't be buying another Nintendo game until I can purchase that! Tecmo hasn't had a problem releasing the other 3, and the sales have not been that bad in the states/Europe. UGH, I guess I'm still jaded that they're holding onto a shiny that I want, and am willing to part with money for.

    Anyway, where are the good wii games anyway? I walk through the store and look at the Wii releases, and it feels like I'm in the kids section. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I guess. There is no reason not to offer them if that's what your consumers want, but why Nintendo (not Nintendo in Japan apparently) won't you release your high quality games over here? Will it ruin your family system image that for whatever reason you're doing your best to keep? It still makes no sense, there are already other more violent games out there!

    Yeah yeah, the internationalization process... Tecmo has not had an issue, like I ranted earlier with the previous 3, and they were interested in having the 4th come out! Why is Nintendo sitting on it's hands? Why is Nintendo sitting on it's hands when people are willing to give them money? Especially when they have a couple of gems just sitting in their laps! They have so few 3rd party developers making quality games [most will max out their gfx capability on the PS3 or 360, at least when it comes to the AAA class titles, and many get exclusive with a certain console, Nintendo cannot afford not to support it's few quality 3rd party developers!

    There's a petition to get the game moving forward [I guess to show there is potential for sales]. I guess I should go sign up for it.... actually I forgot which one I saw first, there's at least 6 going on out there! so I won't link any specific one...

    Well I guess if they don't want to compete, and earn money, eventually economics will catch up with them. The NES/Super NES will remain the period in their legacy I guess. Minus the few gems out the 64 crowd, it has really gone downhill for Nintendo. I can't think of a spectacular game since the gamecube came out. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Point being I think they should be marketing everything they have, unless they realize, that they are really just shoveling garbageware for the first few years, and only plan on releasing decent games after that phase has passed [if there were the must have games, people would not bother with the junk, at least most wouldn't.]

    Final warning to Nintendo: Compete or die. It's the law of economics... Unless you're GM...

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by vrmlguy (120854)

      Final warning to Nintendo: Compete or die. It's the law of economics... Unless you're GM...

      I think that there are plenty of indications that Nintendo competes just fine, thank you very much. Have you read http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html [lostgarden.com]? It's just a true today as it was four years ago.

    • by MemoryDragon (544441) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @04:59AM (#28276857)

      Stop sitting on quality games that have been released in Japan and release them elsewhere! I'm still waiting on fatal frame for the wii, and won't be buying another Nintendo game until I can purchase that! Tecmo hasn't had a problem releasing the other 3, and the sales have not been that bad in the states/Europe. UGH, I guess I'm still jaded that they're holding onto a shiny that I want, and am willing to part with money for.

      Anyway, where are the good wii games anyway? I walk through the store and look at the Wii releases, and it feels like I'm in the kids section. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I guess. There is no reason not to offer them if that's what your consumers want, but why Nintendo (not Nintendo in Japan apparently) won't you release your high quality games over here? Will it ruin your family system image that for whatever reason you're doing your best to keep? It still makes no sense, there are already other more violent games out there!

      The main issue is that there is an overpresence of kids games on the shelves while others clearly exist.
      Okami, Tenchu Shadow Assassins, MadWorld, Godfather Blackhand Edition, Resi4, Metroid, Okami, Sam and Max, Strong Bad, Excite Truck, Excite Bugs, Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings, Red Steel, Disaster Day of Crisis, Endless Ocean, No More Heroes and many others I probably can dig up none of them I would call a kids game. The games are there, but if a Barby whatever game sells more all the sovelware gets the space!

      • by Clovis42 (1229086)

        That's a nice list of games that a mature demographic can play, but most of them suck. Okami is good. I haven't played Metroid yet. Comparing that list to what is available for the other systems (or the PC) is laughable though. The developers (and even Nintendo themselves) are just not putting money into developing good Wii games.

        I essentially bought my Wii because I assumed a great boxing game would have to come out within a few years. There have been a few but they were awful. This is partially because

        • Actually of the entire List I personlly think just Red Steel sucks, and the reason for it is that I hate shooters, I think the rest of games are pretty good!
          But I see the Wii as good addition to the PC which I play mostly!

      • There seems to be the idea, and I don't know if Nintendo promotes it or if it happens on its own, that since the Wii has the motion tracking controller, that you have to use it. The problem is, some games are poorly suited for it, so it ends up being a real gimmick. One of the best examples I can think of is the Zelda game. Now it made good use of the basic Wiimote function in that you could use it to point at things on the screen for mouse-link menu control. Good idea, a mouse interface is rather nice for

        • Not sure how the attach rate is, but I have about 20 games for the Wii on the shelve, and about 10 in the virtual console!
          But last year I played mostly PC partially because not too many interesting things came out. This year seems to be better however with a few games in the line which really interest me!

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by KDR_11k (778916)

      From what I read the FF4 release got cancelled because Nintendo demanded some changes to the crappy control scheme and a ton of bugfixes before they'd release it in the west (e.g. the flashlight wasn't pointed with the IR system but with a weird analog stick and remote tilt control scheme) and Tecmo refused to do them. The reviews of the Japanese version were very critical of the controls and general buggyness so that seems to be a major issue.

    • by hkmwbz (531650)

      Final warning to Nintendo: Compete or die.

      Are you retarded? Have you lived under a rock for the last couple of years?

  • by Anenome (1250374) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @05:08AM (#28276907)

    I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm the most excited about the motion-controls that Sony demoed. Just check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiX-26VL4bM [youtube.com]

    It's hard not to be impressed by the demonstration of what gamers have been dying to be able to do for ages now: true 1:1 positional tracking, a sword and shield in-game, PERFECT.

    So, in my mind, Sony's got the lead on next gen just from that. Falling to last place has actually done some good in this case, it made Sony try.

    Behind Sony I'll place Nintendo. They need to up the ante for the next gen, but we can almost guarantee they'll have at least a decent offering, of not totally cutting edge, and that's fine. Sony may once against price themselves out of the market and make a horribly complex console--time will tell, but we know Nintendo won't make that mistake.

    Then there's Microsoft, with their faked Lionhead / Milo demo. The controller without a controller? It had better be perfect, or they're sunk.

    Lastly, we're all still waiting for someone to show off the final kicker: Johnny Lee style head-tracking for simulated 3d: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw)

    Whoever can pull that out of their hat AND positional input will capture the public's imagination. Can't wait for the next gen :)

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by rbarreira (836272)

      So, in my mind, Sony's got the lead on next gen just from that.

      In reality Nintendo has already launched Wii MotionPlus, they have completed software ready to launch and 3rd parties have already launched games which use Wii MotionPlus. Now Nintendo can focus on making a control scheme for their next software, and they have tons of experience with motion controls.

      Sony is just playing catch up for now.

      • Now Nintendo can focus on making a control scheme for their next software

        ... for the next hardware generation I meant.

      • by The Moof (859402)
        Even from the demo at E3, Wii MotionPlus still looks little laggy. And a little input lag goes a long way in gaming.
    • by Xest (935314)

      Er, I think you may be a little biased.

      You attack Microsoft's offering, and then talk about your most wanted thing being head tracking which is exactly what Natal is capable of and the other two aren't? What's more, it can do it without the need for something to be attached to your head.

      What makes you think the Lionhead demo was faked? Sure the kid wasn't actually understanding and interpreting what was being said to him, AI isn't that advanced and wont be any time soon. It certainly seemed to be able to ma

      • by grumbel (592662)

        This video [youtube.com] nicely shows why the Milo demo was faked. That said, I agree that the tech behind it might real, as its really not that special (bolt voice regonition on something like Facade and you pretty much have it).

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Xest (935314)

          Well no, again you're making things up. It doesn't show that the demo was faked, because being faked suggests that the whole thing is essentially a non-interactive video, yet clearly the water situation where her image is shown from the camera and rendered onto the water debunks that.

          All that YouTube video does is back up my point that the responses and actions are entirely scripted, but that this doesn't detract from the fact those scripted actions are occuring in response to real input.

          You'd have to be an

          • by grumbel (592662)

            It doesn't show that the demo was faked,

            So you believe that the game features a totally weird perspective that makes no sense when you stand in front of the TV?

            yet clearly the water situation where her image is shown from the camera and rendered onto the water debunks that.

            Actor in front of the TV doing motion, everything else is inserted in post production.

            I am not even sure why you try to argue that. I never claimed that the technology behind the demo was fake, that might very well be real or at least close to the demo. But the demo video is certainly not authentic and has been tempered with.

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by Xest (935314)

              "So you believe that the game features a totally weird perspective that makes no sense when you stand in front of the TV?"

              It's not a game, it's a tech demo, it's scripted to look good which from the camera angle they chose to record from such that they can capture the system and the person using it it does actually look good and it works.

              "Actor in front of the TV doing motion, everything else is inserted in post production."

              Oh including the dynamic water effect which would be pointless anyway because it's m

              • by Anenome (1250374)

                Why are you arguing about the graphics and rendering? There's nothing new there, that's not what the Natal / Milo demo was all about.

                Here's the one and sole true test of whether the Milo demo was fake: Was the game being run live and actually responding to the inputs of the actor in real-time, with all of the footage seen generated uniquely and in real-time for that demo,

                -or-

                was the actor miming inputs that the game wasn't actually recognizing and reacting to, and trying to match them up to a pre-recorded v

            • by Xest (935314)

              I should add to my other post by the way, that whilst what the video says is true - that to an observer looking at the screen the character would not be looking at them, it ignores the other dimension, that when you have another observer, observing the observer and the character on screen it would not then appear as if the character was looking at the initial observer as it does in their demo. It thus makes sense that they did it this way to give a better impression for the demo that the character is lookin

              • by grumbel (592662)

                This is the problem with conspiracy theories,

                Where is the conspiracy theory? You admit yourself that the demo doesn't show genuine gameplay, but something build up for marketing purposes. If they tempered in post production or with the 3d projection matrix or whatever doesn't make much of a difference, as neither of which turns it into actual real gameplay footage.

                • by Xest (935314)

                  No one ever said it shows real gameplay footage, it's just supposed to show what is possible. If it was really gameplay footage we could expect it to come out for Christmas, but we know it's still in testing and a lot further off than that.

                  Tech demos have never been about showing off real gameplay footage, they're there to show off the technology and what it's potential is.

                  Providing we accept scripting as the mechanism for story telling and NPC responses then there's no reason it couldn't be gameplay footag

      • by Anenome (1250374)

        I'm actually more a Nintendo fanboy than anything. And I like Microsoft better than Sony, thus the lead of my comment being amazed that I'm advocating the Sony solution. In this case, I'm just plain impressed with Sony's motion controls. They are a perfect solution, and that blasts through my prejudices.

        Natal does do head-tracking, but won't be able to do fine-grained implement tracking like Sony's. And none of them do head-tracking based pseudo 3D like the Johnny Lee head-tracking demo I linked. If you had

        • by Xest (935314)

          No, that's the point Natal can in fact do that because it can track your eyes in relation to the screen - it's not just a single 2D camera, it has the ability to track in 3D space which means it can adjust what is rendered depending on where you on in relation to the screen.

          Natal doesn't just record silhouttes like previous offerings such as the XBox Live vision camera and the eye toy, it does full blown 3D tracking which allows for exactly the sort of things in Johnny Lee's demo and as someone else pointed

          • by Anenome (1250374)

            No kidding, you mean it derives 3D space from stereoscopic-placed cameras? No, I had no idea. Why are you assuming I'm an idiot?

            Tracking the eyes does nothing, it's only your head moving that makes for pseudo-3D. And yes, Johnny Lee is working for MS, and technically this system is capable of JL-style head-tracking 3D.

            SO WHY WASN'T IT SHOWN??? Not shown, thus it fails to impress.

            • by Xest (935314)

              Er, in your previous post you said it's not capable of it, now you agree it is.

              No need to get defensive, your comments are inconsistent as a result. It is possible to change your mind and agree with someone without getting uptight about it.

    • by Funk_dat69 (215898) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @09:21AM (#28278449)

      Your post is a bit funny considering that Microsoft has actually contracted Johnny Lee to work on Natal.

      Check it out: http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]

      • by Anenome (1250374)

        Natal, as demonstrated at E3 via Milo, does not feature the kind of pseudo-3D that Johnny Lee popularized.

        Watch the video and then you'll know what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw [youtube.com]

        So, he may be working with them, but he's probably frustrated right now--or working on it in secret for a later reveal. In any case, I don't believe that Natal can replicate Sony's Sword and Shield demo. I'm also worried about the price of the Natal app. Natal seems to be an attempt to incorporate old-

    • by elrous0 (869638) *
      I agree that Sony's demo was impressive, but you're jumping the gun on the 360 a bit. Adam Sessler at G4 got a hand-on demo and said that it did indeed deliver on its promises. Of course they're both ripping off Nintendo at this point, but Nintendo's hardware has never appealed to me as a serious gamer.
  • Project Natal adds a new dimension for your cat to bother you while playing games.

  • This may just be my personal experience, but I play my 360 when I want to have fun - I play my Wii when I have people over. Nintendo was smart for diving into the casual gaming market, but if the other players (MS and Sony) are diving in there as well, I'd be very, very concerned if I was Nintendo because I simply cannot compete.
    • by grumbel (592662)

      The difference between Nintendo and the rest is that Nintendo has a complete solution, they not only have the hardware, but also the games that make use of it. Both Microsoft and Sony have little to none in that area, they have only the hardware, but not the game concepts to make use of it.

      Or to put it another way: People go out and buy a Wii because it has Wii Sports, not because the Wiimote has theoretical potential to be useful for future games. At the moment nothing that Sony or Microsoft has shown has

  • by gosand (234100) on Wednesday June 10, 2009 @09:49AM (#28278817)

    P.S. Nanny nanny boo boo we had the cool technology before you did.

    Seriously, we wouldn't be even talking about the wii if it didn't have the cool technology controls. Without that, many of their games would be re-hashed old ones, or not even possible.

    So it's all about entertainment - once you have the technology. And don't think that Nintendo isn't ALSO working on the technology aspect of it.

  • Given that the Wii has the lowest rated selection among the three consoles, perhaps Reg should be asking "Is it fun?" more about his own games, rather than the competition.
    • by cowscows (103644)

      Considering that Nintendo has been consistently outselling everyone else by big margins, maybe the ratings aren't that valid? You can't really make a good argument that the Wii is just a fad at this point, you can't realistically argue that it's just cruising on hype. People are still buying lots of their stuff, and they're buying it because it's fun to them.

      It's been said before, but Nintendo has expanded the realm of people that they're targeting as customers. Those people are often different from the typ

      • by feepness (543479)

        Considering that Nintendo has been consistently outselling everyone else by big margins, maybe the ratings aren't that valid?

        Nintendo's releases certainly have sold well, and are very highly rated. Other games on the Wii, not so much [kotaku.com].

        So this would kind of put the lie to "they are poorly rated but sell well because reviewers just don't understand." Nope, the poorly rated games sell poorly. The highly rated games sell, errr, highly. And these highly rated games are few, and primarily from Nintendo.

        My point remains: "Reggie, get the overall quality of your system together." I could be wrong, but I don't think the myth of

    • by seebs (15766)

      Averages aren't good for much. The only game to outscore the top Wii game is GTA4 -- a game which a huge number of people complain was overrated because all the reviewers gave it 100, but the actual gameplay was sorta okay.

      Perhaps more importantly, try looking at the best games [b]in each genre[/b].

      Sony and MS have a ton of highly ranked shooters, racers, and sports games, plus a couple adventure games.

      Nintendo has RPGs, platformers, puzzle games, shooters, racers, sports games, adventure games, and more -

      • by feepness (543479)

        Nintendo has RPGs, platformers, puzzle games, shooters, racers, sports games, adventure games, and more -- and they have good games of all those types.

        To name a few on the PS3 (I'm sure the 360 has its own).

        PS3 RPGS: Valkyria Chronicles, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Enchanted Arms.
        PS3 Puzzle games: flOw, Echochrome, LocoRoco.
        PS3 Adventure games: Wii has one 9.0 game, Zack and Wiki. PS3 has one 9.0 game, Folklore.
        PS3 Platformer: Yes, this is Nintendo's forte. And for someone solely into that, I would recommend a Wii.

        I'm glad you enjoy your Wii, good for you. But saying there's not a hint of a contest when you are apparently completely unfamiliar with t

  • For this generation, the Wii had the cool controller and the well priced console but the crappiest games (as somebody else pointed out, the Wii section in any games store looks like the kiddies area).

    With the other console manufacturers moving towards a sensible stance in terms of price (clearly the Heads of Sony's and Microsoft's Console divisions where smoking something extra strong when they thought that doubling the price of their consoles for this generation would be a smart move) and now coming up wit

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