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Comments: 100 +- Hardware: Looking at Intel's New-ish Desktop Socket, LGA 1366 on Monday June 01 2009, @05:31AM
Posted
by
timothy
on Monday June 01 2009, @05:31AM
from the odd-number-of-RAM-sticks-means-cognitive-dissonance dept.
from the odd-number-of-RAM-sticks-means-cognitive-dissonance dept.
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Slatterz writes "LGA 1366 is Intel's first new desktop socket in four years. It uses the same ZIF design as the familiar LGA 775 architecture, but it incorporates many more contacts. These big architectural changes are backed up by some less visible advances. Until now, Intel's quad-core processors have been constructed from two dual-core dies, but now Core i7 brings together four cores on a single die. It's also Intel's first processor design to use an L3 cache, shared between all four cores."
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Submission: Intel's new-ish desktop socket: LGA 1366 explained by Anonymous Coward
Executive ability is prominent in your make-up.
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I realised /. was slow sometimes... (Score:4, Funny)
...but c'mon.
Re: (Score:2)
The 1366 socket has been around for almost a year now, so I also wonder why it appeared now.
Did someone mistype the year to 2009 this time last year?
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Give them a break; they're Australian. They're still playing Knifey Spooney.
It takes months/years for new hardware to reach them.
Dammit it's something to bitch about! (Score:2)
So quit your whining already.
Uh, what? (Score:5, Funny)
This might have been news 7 or 8 months ago when the chips were released.
What's next? ATX Power Supplies Explained? "Plugs into any ordinary wall socket! Flick the switch and it turns on! Use it to power your computer! You'll see them turning up in shops any day now!"
Re:Uh, what? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
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I heard it's going to change the world.
Make it "could change the world", pull out some key facts, misspell the title and you've got a story!
kdawson
Re:Uh, what? (Score:4, Funny)
I've heard some of the newer designs are using pushbuttons instead of switches. I know....it sounds absurd, but apparently it's true.
Parent
It *is* absurd (Score:2)
Since the soft power pushbutton goes through the OS, you can be stuck there with a computer running and no way to turn it off but pull the power cable. Not having an actual switch on the power supply is frustrating.
Re:It *is* absurd (Score:5, Informative)
You're an idiot. Please don't post here anymore.
Either you or your computer can set that power button to ACPI only, at which point holding it down for five seconds doesn't do anything except make the button temporarily shorter.
You are an asshole. Please log in so you can be modded down.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
So, how does it happen that the "soft power pushbutton" works when the computer is off?
It doesn't. The computer is never off, it's just in idle mode: the CPU is shut down but parts of the motherboard are powered up and listening to the power button and often for Wake On Lan from the NIC. Once the OS boots, it takes over ACPI and the soft power button has no effect.
As a result, incidentally, it's still using about 1W while it's "off". Hard power switches on the front of computers would save a significant amo
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
But I think you missed the point. You said the soft power pushbutton goes through the OS. However, when the machine is shut down there is no OS loaded. When you first plug it in, there is no possibility of any part of the OS still being resident in memory, yet the power button still turns it on.
No, you are wrong. The button doesn't go through the OS. It goes thr
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But I think you missed the point.
You're telling me that I missed my own point. Good job.
The BIOS will then send ACPI messages to the loaded OS and allow the OS to handle the response to the power button. However, when you hold it down for 4 seconds, that is not treated as an ACPI event. That gets handled internally by the BIOS.
Unless (a) the OS is so broken the BIOS is trashed too, or (b) the computer is configured to always go through ACPI. And, yes, I've seen just about everything from Windows 2000 throug
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The significant energy savings would come from people all over the world who *don't* care flipping the switch on the front they normally flip and getting the computer actually turned off. Not from the dozen or three people who do care going to the bother of installing a power strip.
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Depends on BIOS, JACKASS!
ALWAYS have a physical power switch.
ALWAYS.
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Uhhh, no. In my 15-ish years as a PC tech, I've not once run into an ATX machine that didn't turn off when the power switch was held unless there was a malfunction in the power supply or the switch itself. Some machines take a few seconds longer to power off than others, but they *all* work.
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We have a rack full of dell servers that let us disable this in the BIOS.
If the thing hangs, you have to pull the plug.
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Any decent ATX power supply includes a physical power switch to cut the juice. Also comes in handy when working in the PC - you can turn the switch off to kill the power but leave the cord plugged in so the chassis is grounded. I hate the cheap ones with no switch on the back.
Oblig. Comic Reference (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Metaphor (Score:4, Funny)
Bigger number! Woo-hoo! With the POWER of MATHS I can tell you
Reminds me of when I upgraded my disposable razor from one with 3 blades to 4 FREAKING BLADES!!!11!1
I get 33% more hot babes now.. FUCK YEAH
(Yeah, yeah, 33% of 0....)
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Whooosh!
Did you TRY going back to fewer blades? (Score:2)
I thought myself, "what the fuck, why am I paying 32 euro for a couple of razor blades!" and I bought the cheap generic brand 2 blade stuff.
OUCH! Not saying it cut my face, it didn't but there really is a HUGE difference between the "quality" 5 blade razors and the cheap 2 blade kind. It is a smooth shave versus having the hair torn from your face.
Crybaby you might say, or I might just have had a really bad 2 blade razor but still. I ain't going back again.
So if you got a baby soft skin and a 5 o'clock s
Re: (Score:2)
You're better off with a two-blade Bic than a four-blade Trim. The biggest difference between good razor and shitty razor is the steel.
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I thought myself, "what the fuck, why am I paying 32 euro for a couple of razor blades!" and I bought the cheap generic brand 2 blade stuff.
OUCH! Not saying it cut my face, it didn't but there really is a HUGE difference between the "quality" 5 blade razors and the cheap 2 blade kind. It is a smooth shave versus having the hair torn from your face.
I had the exact same experience when I tried to buy cheap generic 2-blade razors to replace my expensive name brand 2-blade razors. Because it's about the quali
Re: (Score:2)
After using a 3-blade Gilette razor for a couple years, I tried the older 2-blade version and liked it a lot better. I can't really say why, but it seemed to give a cleaner shave and have less irritation. I consequently believe that all this "now with even more blades" nonsense is just marketing.
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Bigger number! Woo-hoo! With the POWER of MATHS I can tell you ...1366 over 775 = 76% better!
I'm certain the number is just the pin count which is a typical way to name sockets. More pins isn't necessarily better but since in this particular case the explosion in pin count is due to adding three DDR3 channels on-chip I'm willing to bet it is.
Not the new desktop socket (Score:5, Informative)
LGA 1366 is intended for servers, workstations, and high-end gaming PCs. LGA 1156 will be the mainstream
desktop socket.
What's the difference? IIRC, LGA 1366 has a tripe-channel memory controller and support for dual CPUs (via another QuickPath link). LGA 1156 has dual-channel memory support with support for only one CPU.
The desktop CPU for LGA 1156 will be called Core i5.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Can't be that bad, surely.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not the new desktop socket (Score:5, Interesting)
Please refer to the excellent Anandtech preview article on Lynnfield [anandtech.com] that will be the first family of CPUs to use LGA 1156. Lynnfield has uses a dual-channel DDR3 controller instead of using triple-channel integrated memory controller in its uncore like Nehalem does. However, the dual-channel controller should still provide enough bandwidth for most desktop apps (the Nehalem architecture is not bandwidth constrained at all, unlike all previous generation CPUs including Core2 that used massive L2 caches to offset the memory bandwidth bottleneck due to the FSB).
However, the main difference between Lynnfield/LGA 1156 and LGA 1366 used in servers is the fact that it doesn't use QuickPath at all. Instead, it uses a combination of integrated PCIe 2.0 x16 controller (to talk to the graphics subsystem) and a (much slower) DMI controller to talk to everything else. Its an interesting alternative to QuickPath which is frankly expensive overkill for desktops anyway. The key advantage of the new socket will be significantly lower prices of motherboards and CPUs, which will allow Intel to provide some credible alternatives to AMD's current offerings that may be slower than Nehalem but are also much cheaper.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
the Nehalem architecture is not bandwidth constrained at all
Don't be silly. Total bandwidth to all 4 cores of an i7 920 on triple-channel DDR3/10333 is only 20GB/s. That's about 1.8 bytes per core per cycle. Given the existence of SSE instructions reading 16 bytes per cycle you're about 90% short of unconstrained bandwidth.
Even with the best DDR3 money can buy you're still 80% short.
I think you meant to say the Nehalem architecture is not bottlenecked at all.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Thanks for the correction. Yes, I meant to say that Nehalem is not bottlenecked.
just one x16 link and a slow dmi link is too small (Score:2)
just one x16 link and a slow dmi link is too small
as 1 / 2 video cards cards will eat up the x16 link. Making sound / ide / sata / network / system and bios IO / other pci-e slots / firewire / usb all share the slow DMI link or force MB makers to put pci-e switches (driving costs up) one the x16 link.
AMD wins aging all cpus use HT driving MB costs down as well letting the same MB run low and high end cpus.
Re:Not the new desktop socket (Score:5, Interesting)
The socket for Core i7 equivalent Xeons is the same LGA-1366, but the standard Core i7 only has one QPI link, so you can't use them in dual CPU configs.
I hadn't heard about LGA-1156, but I'm a bit suspicious whether it will really take off. I don't really understand now that Intel have launched LGA-1366 where is the room for a slightly lower spec socket. I wouldn't have thought a few extra pins in the socket is that expensive, and buying RAM in packs of 3 isn't that much of a problem - and it's optional anyway.
By Q3 when LGA-1156 is due, Core i7 will be already heading down into the mainstream.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
i5 systems will be much cheaper - turns out that they won't have QuickPath at all, but will have an integrated PCI-e controller instead. This should allow for cheaper/simpler system boards. I think this will lead to lower power use as well.
LGA 1156 wil replace LGA 775 as the mainstream socket. And LGA 1366 won't take over as the mainstream desktop socket when all the CPUs are well over $100 and there are no chipsets with integrated graphics available.
Re: (Score:2)
Lack of integrated graphics is a good point. Anandtech's article linked to by asliarun above suggests that LGA1156 is well designed to run with integrated graphics, based on having an internal PCIe controller.
But still, unless LGA1156 is really *much* simpler and cheaper to build, I would expect that the existing LGA775 / Core 2 Duo / Core 2 Quad platform would remain the cheapest option for quite a while. By the time you'd think about LGA1156, it seems LGA1366 would be the one to go for.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
For what it is worth, looks like artificial market segmentation = bad for upgraders. AMD is guilty of that, too.
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No, it appears there are significant technical differences - such as the inclusion of QuickPath and triple channel on 1366 and an integrated PCI-e controller on 1156. I wouldn't want an inefficient desktop because I had to use a socket with an excessively high bandwidth link.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Point taken, perhaps "artificial" wasn't the best way to put it. But again, with few exceptions, the high-end technology of today becomes the mainstream of tomorrow.
2008's news again... (Score:5, Funny)
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Pictures? (Score:3, Insightful)
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MB prices (Score:2)
I have noticed that motherboard prices for higher-end AMD Phenom systems seem to be a lot lower then MB prices for Intel I7 systems. AMD's high integration approach seems to be paying off there. The only real issue seems to be AMDs lack of support for larger 16G memory configurations in its desktop line.
The whole-system price for a Phenom X4 system (using e.g. A Shuttle SN78SH7 as a base) is less then $600. Every year it seems I can buy a cheap off-the-shelf barebones system and completely replace severa
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I think you mean multi-socket. HT and QPI don't connect SiP cores.
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Try this [break.com].
Holy hell.. This is clearly proof that the Gene Pool is in serious need of a fungicide.