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Palm Kills Community Before It Begins 247

Posted by ScuttleMonkey
from the almost-like-they-don't-need-people-to-buy-their-stuff dept.
Former Fan of Palm writes to tell us that an enthusiastic, supportive developer community has fallen victim to corporate ineptitude once again. The preDevCamp started as a community-driven effort designed to mirror the iPhoneDevCamp based on the new "Pre" product announced by Palm. Unfortunately, suspicion and legal posturing seems to have gutted the founders of any and all enthusiasm they may have once had. When will corporations realize that community support is the best way to drive success? "As a corporation, I acknowledge that Palm's only responsibility is to its shareholders. There's nothing self serving or evil about that; it's how things work in big business. However there are many keen and willing developers out there, who have been waiting for the arrival of WebOS. A development platform is only a success if it is broadly adopted. Instead of embracing the grassroots upswell of interest in WebOS that preDevCamp fostered, Palm seem to be, at best, oblivious and, at worst, disdainful of the enthusiasm and good will engendered by these folk. I think they are missing a real opportunity to be involved in and to help generate the growth of a vital community."
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Palm Kills Community Before It Begins

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  • Hah! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jaysyn (203771) <jaysyn+slashdot&gmail,com> on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:06PM (#28056897) Homepage Journal

    Well, this is certainly an interesting article to be reading as I am looking for a replacement for my aging Tungsten E.

    Guess who I probably won't be going with this time?!

    • Re:Hah! (Score:5, Informative)

      by bigman2003 (671309) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:19PM (#28057093) Homepage

      Windows Mobile?

      When it comes down to it...like it or not...Windows Mobile is the most open phone OS.

      They are the most supportive for developers. No roadblocks, nothing. I can write a program today, and distribute it over the web without any problems.

      Every part of the Phone OS is open to me. My carrier cannot block a single thing from running on my phone.

      • Just a little more-

        Windows Mobile 6.5 has been widely available for a while, and Microsoft hasn't raised a fuss. Apps were ripped from it (Facebook for instance) to run on previous versions...and Microsoft actually supported it!

        • Re:Hah! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Sancho (17056) * on Friday May 22, 2009 @03:25PM (#28058799) Homepage

          Exactly. And that's exactly how MS got their desktop monopoly.

          Piracy was rampant in the 80s and 90s. DOS and Windows disks were passed around like the town bicycle, along with CD keys. If a really big shop was caught selling pirated copies of their software, there might be a fuss, but casual copying and even smaller businesses buying one copy and pre-installing it on all of their machines was pretty much overlooked.

          A lot of people have theorized that Microsoft allowed this to go on to gain marketshare. It's better to have your OS pirated and installed on a machine than for your competitors to make a sale, in the long run. There's always time to lock everything down once you've gotten the monopoly.

      • Re:Hah! (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:23PM (#28057153)

        bullshit.
        android followed closely by symbian OS is the most open there is.
        carriers regularly block GPS capability on windows mobile phones.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by bigman2003 (671309)

          Honestly...I completely forgot about Android.

          But I have had quite a bit of trouble with Symbian, much less so with Windows Mobile.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Maarek Stele (7770)

          bullshit.
          android followed closely by symbian OS is the most open there is.
          carriers regularly block GPS capability on windows mobile phones.

          that's carrier specific, like Verizon. You can use everything in AT&T so I don't have a problem either with creating apps.

          • by nilbog (732352)

            Mod parent up. It's not the OS's fault. It's carrier - induced BS. As delivered, Windows Mobile is an extremely open OS that follow the development ethics of the desktop.

            It's the equivalent of Dell shipping PCs with custom XP installs that don't allow USB drives or something. Not Microsoft's fault.

            Personally, I believe this is due more to stupidity than altruism on Microsoft's part, but it's better for the community. A modified Hanlon's razor perhaps applies?

            P.S. I'm no Windows Mobile fanboy, but I do

      • Re:Hah! (Score:4, Funny)

        by rolfwind (528248) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:32PM (#28057287)

        When it comes down to it...like it or not...Windows Mobile is the most open phone OS.

        If, by open, do you mean in the same fashion as goatse? If it's anything like it's parent OS, I'll have to agree;)

      • And yet.. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by msimm (580077) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:46PM (#28057499) Homepage
        The OS still sucks. I'll stick with RIM/Blackberry (which also has an active and seemingly open developer community) until a Android phone I like comes along.

        And where do you get "most open phone OS"?
        • Re:And yet.. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by blincoln (592401) on Friday May 22, 2009 @02:04PM (#28057817) Homepage Journal

          I'll stick with RIM/Blackberry (which also has an active and seemingly open developer community) until a Android phone I like comes along.

          Are you posting from the mirror universe? When I had a company-provided BlackBerry, I went looking for apps. The only "free" one I found was Opera Mini, AKA Opera Please-Trust-Us-Not-To-Steal-All-Your-Personal-Data-That-Is-Being-Proxied-And-Modified-By-Our Servers-Including-HTTPS-Traffic. I tried out a couple of shareware/paid apps and was amazingly unimpressed. One was a replacement browser which managed to be even less usable than RIM's, and the other was a server-based wrapper for MS Office/OpenOffice that would take screenshots of Office docs and make them available for the phone so they'd look correct, because RIM's viewer/editor programs were so lacking in features.
          On the other hand, now that I have a G1, I've found a ton of useful, completely free applications. It doesn't have Exchange ActiveSync (yet), but since it's my personal phone I'm not in a huge hurry to get that anyway. Also, it has a browser that actually works.
          If there's a whole world of BlackBerry stuff I missed, I'd definitely be interested in hearing about it, though.

          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by zxaos (910908)
            It should be noted that the "Please-Trust-Us-Not-To-Steal-All-Your-Personal-Data-That-Is-Being-Proxied-And-Modified-By-Our Servers-Including-HTTPS-Traffic" system is designed to save battery life by doing encryption on RIM servers instead of the device. It should be further noted that this is an option that can be disabled so that people who it makes uncomfortable (like you) can have it performed on their device. Seems like FUD to me.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by k_187 (61692)
              No, Opera mini is a version of the opera web browser that uses a proxy in sweeden (right? that's where they're from) to render and compress websites then shoots it to your handheld. Not that what you're talking about doesn't also happen, all BB data goes through RIM's servers in Canada, things you view in Opera Mini go through an extra step.
          • by eudaemon (320983)

            Blackberries are *excellent* devices - I carried them for years. For e-mail and contact management, you can't touch them.
            Seriously - world class. The G1 although much less mature in contact management, and actively hostile towards
            e-mail carriers other than google offers a much better integration experience between the components on the phone.
            Example: installing the twitter client twidroid automatically extends the camera application's share feature to include twitter.
            Applications also play well with each

      • by Lumpy (12016)

        Yet.

        Microsoft is working hard to make a iPhone app model that they can get their cut of each app.

        It's open now, it will NOT be in 2 years. They cant ignore the big fat gigantic cash cow that Apple created by locking down the apps like they have.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by LWATCDR (28044)

        For now.
        I wonder how long that will last. Microsoft copies all things Apple. My bet it will be just a matter of time before it puts in an AppStore and locks things down.
        Microsoft has never seen a revenue stream it didn't love.

    • by tcolberg (998885)
      I'm also waiting for a replacement for my Tungsten T3 which practically crippled. A lot of Palm's success in the past was due to the app community, so I'm hoping that they will leverage that with the Pre. If this doesn't cover what I'm looking for, I might have to move on to Android.
    • Re:Hah! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by COMON$ (806135) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:29PM (#28057247) Journal
      Palm, while once a great device is just another example of a corporation who should have been unstoppable, makes a crapload of stupid mistakes, doesn't learn from them, then keeps hoping that their lack of innovation will drive them forward. iPod, iPhone, RIM, and the slew of windows devices should never have had a chance if Palm would have been at least a little adventurous.
      • Re:Hah! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Jane Q. Public (1010737) on Friday May 22, 2009 @02:02PM (#28057787)
        Just look at what they did with the Treo. Rather than holding on to their strengths (handwriting, high-resolution screen, existing apps) and just adding a phone, they threw all those things away in order to try to compete with Blackberry and Nokia: They made the screen smaller, added that shitty little chiclet keyboard, removed the handwriting recognition, and a lot of existing apps would not work (or work well anyway) on the Treo.

        What a tragedy. The iPhone is what the Palm should have been 4 or even 5 years ago.
        • by ZorinLynx (31751)

          Why would anyone want handwriting recognition? I can type, even on a chiclet keyboard, several times faster than I can write.

          Handwriting recognition is a gimmick. Give me a real keyboard anyway. Heck even the iPhone's virtual keyboard is better than handwriting recognition!

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Big Boss (7354)

            I agree. What I really want is the bastard child of an iPhone and a Blackberry. The iPhone UI, with a real keyboard... oh wait, the G1 is damn close to that. Just wish it was a little more polished. Say what you like about Apple, they are very good at UI. Hopefully Google makes some improvements there. If I had the $, I'd probably buy the developer version of the G1.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Not so. After a bit of practice, I could write on my Palm much faster than I could use those little keyboards. Your mileage may vary, but it certainly worked for me.

            But more to the point, Palm also had a virtual, on-screen keyboard, much like the one on the iPhone. What's wrong with that? People like it just fine on the iPhone.

            Regardless, my point was: the Palm was not designed to be another Blackberry. If you like the little keyboards, you could always get a Blackberry. But instead, rather than compe
    • by 0xdeadbeef (28836)

      Guess who I probably won't be going with this time?!

      A corporation that manufactures and sells anything? Because most of them would have done the same. Especially the one Palm is competing with.

    • Re:Hah! (Score:5, Informative)

      by LWATCDR (28044) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:52PM (#28057619) Homepage Journal

      Why?
      Really all that happened is these guys talked to Palm about setting this up, signed and NDA, got a meeting set up, then some yo yo tweeted about it and probably violated the NDA.
      So the meeting got canceled.
      No take down notice or anything like that. Now they are all upset and posting about how unfair this is and Slashdot picks it up and runs with it.
      Well just what are you going to replace your Tungsten E with then?
      Windows Mobil, iPhone, S60 maybe?
      Good grief folks get some perspective. Palm my end up sucking but the Pre may be great. Seems way out of line to get bent before the phone is even out yet.

  • contrary (Score:2, Informative)

    by b4upoo (166390)

    "There is nothing self serving---only responsibility to its share holders".
            What a contradiction. Right action demands serving all people and the most in need first not shareholders. In plain terms a corporation is about the essence of pure evil.

    • Re:contrary (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mea37 (1201159) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:17PM (#28057063)

      So by way of example, whenever you earn money you keep just enough to live and give the rest to local charity?

      Oh, but you clearly have access to a computer, so that's probably not true.

      Get off your high horse about "right action". Hypocrisy is the essence of pure evil.

      • by kestasjk (933987) *

        Hypocrisy is the essence of pure evil.

        Overreaction is the essence of pure evil.

      • A lot of us do in fact give a good portion of our money to charity. People who make a lot of money often give a very large amount to charity. Sure they also live well, but its not like they all penny pinch every dollar for themselves.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by John Whitley (6067)

        No, one doesn't need to be utterly self-denying. GP's statement was phased differently by Bill and Ted: "Be excellent to each other." A Slashdotter, however, might require the double-negative form: "don't be an asshat." ;-) Neither of these forms include "to the exclusion of oneself."

        Paying attention to one's own needs is basic to the ability to interact with the world in a healthy way. People (and corporations) who deny this tend to get rather screwed up and/or end up playing doormat to others' desires

        • Actually, no they don't have a responsibility to society beyond their responsibility to their shareholders. However, if they do not pay attention to anything but the immediate return to their shareholders they will fail in that responsibility. The corporations that got smacked down, failed to recognize that if they fail to meet some basic level of demands that society in general puts on them, they will fail in their responsibility to their shareholders.
    • Re:contrary (Score:5, Informative)

      by MozeeToby (1163751) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:20PM (#28057105)

      Right action demands serving all people and the most in need first not shareholders. In plain terms a corporation is about the essence of pure evil.

      By that logic, if I don't live in a shack and give away all the money I don't absolutely need, I must be an evil, immoral person. Right and wrong are determined by culture and society. In our culture, a business has a duty to maximize shareholder value because shareholders have essentially loaned the corporation the money it needs to operate. If I loan you money, it is correct in our society to pay it back with agreed upon interest; there's very little difference between that and a corporation maximizing shareholder value.

      • Re:contrary (Score:5, Insightful)

        by gravesb (967413) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:30PM (#28057261) Homepage
        Bond holders lend money to a company; shareholders own part of the company. Since the shareholders own the company, the board and CEO work for the shareholders. That is why they must maximize shareholder value. Then the shareholders can take the money they make and spend it how they like. Saying a corporation is evil is a silly, populist gloss over the way things work. Corporations are neither good nor evil. The people who own them are. Corporations maximize shareholder value, and then we, as shareholders, determine whether that value is used for good or for evil. Sorry- not all of that was directed at you, just the definitional part at the beginning.
        • by vertinox (846076) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:58PM (#28057729)

          Corporations maximize shareholder value, and then we, as shareholders, determine whether that value is used for good or for evil. Sorry- not all of that was directed at you, just the definitional part at the beginning.

          I think a lot of companies fail to realize that short term profit maximization often is contrary to long term profit maximization.

          Sure, they could make a lot more money being bastards to their community and suing their customers and competitors, but over long term they will loose "good will" and suffer long term profits.

          Personally, I'd rather own shares in a company that treats its employees, customers, and community with respect simply because that will mean they'll be around in 20 years with maximized gains.

        • by mcsqueak (1043736)
          THANK YOU for stating this, even though you shouldn't have to. If I have to listen to one more person automatically paint corporations as "bad" because they think it makes them sound intellectual I'm going to puke. And don't get me started on those douches with their Che stickers on their Macbooks... ugh! ;)
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by vertinox (846076)

        By that logic, if I don't live in a shack and give away all the money I don't absolutely need, I must be an evil, immoral person.

        According to a lot of regions... Including Christianity.

        Yes, you are.

        "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."
        >

        I'll admit. I'm not a Christian (and yet I'm here quoting bible verses) so I understand perhaps this view is flawed, but arguably if you take it from a religious point of v

        • by Grishnakh (216268)

          I guess in the eyes of religion, then, all technology is really quite evil too. After all, without wealth, no one would ever have been able to devote the time, energy, and resources necessary to developing any but the most rudimentary of technologies. Things like scientific research must be evil, because these scientists are being funded by wealthy people to pursue things, instead of this money being used to feed the poor.

          No wonder I'm not religious. It's all a bunch of idiotic claptrap made up by people

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by vertinox (846076)

            After all, without wealth, no one would ever have been able to devote the time, energy, and resources necessary to developing any but the most rudimentary of technologies.

            Umm... Who is your history teacher so I can slap them because you've just discounted all the Greek, Roman, and Renaissance innovators and inventors? Yes, many of them had patrons, but most of these guys weren't wealthy themselves. (And ironically some of the Scientists during the 1500's were monks and church leaders themselves)

            Also you've

            • by Grishnakh (216268)

              Umm... Who is your history teacher so I can slap them because you've just discounted all the Greek, Roman, and Renaissance innovators and inventors? Yes, many of them had patrons, but most of these guys weren't wealthy themselves. (And ironically some of the Scientists during the 1500's were monks and church leaders themselves)

              I never said scientists were wealthy, just their patrons. If their patrons had money to give scientists, inventors, etc., that's money that could have been given to the poor instead.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by XxtraLarGe (551297)

          I'll admit. I'm not a Christian (and yet I'm here quoting bible verses) so I understand perhaps this view is flawed, but arguably if you take it from a religious point of view of Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism then yes you are supposed to give all your things away you don't need a live in a shack.

          You can't just take one verse from the Bible and get a whole lot of meaning out of it. You have to look at it in context. Jesus often times did things to make a point, and this is one of those cases.

          Prior to this passage (I'm paraphrasing now), a man asked Jesus what he had to do to get eternal life. Jesus told him to follow God's commandments, which the man claimed he did since he was a child. Jesus told him "Cool, now go sell all your stuff, give the money to the poor, and follow me." When Jesus said tha

        • Re:contrary (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Dunkirk (238653) * <david&davidkrider,com> on Friday May 22, 2009 @02:39PM (#28058243) Homepage

          Disclaimer: IAAC. I know several wealthy Christians, even one -ridiculously- wealthy one, and I'm talking real, dyed-in-the-wool, no-hypocrisy-within-sight Christians. Depending on your point of view, I might be considered wealthy. Certainly, as a computer programmer in America who's doing alright despite "this economy" (thank God), I'm more wealthy than the majority of the world's population.

          If "Christianity" forbad lending, I don't know where "they" got it from. There are scriptures dealing with usury in the old testament. It was alright to lend with interest, just not to someone else of the faith. ;-)

          I'm writing to note that it's "easier" for the camel, but not impossible. The trick here is that it's the LOVE of money which is the root of all evil, according to scripture, not money itself. King David was one of the richest people the world had ever seen back in his day, and he was "a man after God's own heart."

          Take this for what it's worth, but since you seemed so reasonable (on Slashdot?!), I just wanted to chime in with my view.

        • The Amish are not anti-wealth (many Amish are fairly rich), they are anti-technology (and even that is a bit of an oversimplification). The Amish have a quite different view of what is important than most others in our society (look at their reaction to the case where a man shot up one of their schools a few years ago).
    • "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need", eh?

      I have concerns about libertarian "free market" ideals, but I think your comment pushes things way too far in the opposite direction.

      • Re:Right action? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jane Q. Public (1010737) on Friday May 22, 2009 @02:18PM (#28057985)
        Please keep in mind that contrary to popular belief, Libertarians are not in favor of completely unregulated markets. Rather, they support the least amount of regulation that works. For example, I think just about anybody today with half a brain or more recognizes that the "financial industry" was out of control and requires more regulation... Libertarian or not. Most intelligent Libertarians also recognize that a reasonable set of antitrust laws are also necessary.
    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by Frosty Piss (770223)
      Well, if Palm doesn't want a healthy development community for its products, then let them have what they want. It's the first nail in the coffin, and the product will be DOA. Fuck 'em.
    • by sherriw (794536)

      I wonder if anyone will catch your Eightfold Path reference. Great post.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by NotQuiteReal (608241)
      In plain terms a corporation is about the essence of pure evil.

      Especially those 501(c)(3) corporations. Rotten to the core, every one of them!
    • by ADRA (37398)

      haha just watch "The Corporation". It was a great movie, even if you love our corporate overlords =)

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by monopole (44023)

      Never ascribe to malice what can be accounted to stupidity.

      Every time I hear the "Only Responsibility is Maximizing Value for the Shareholders" argument it seems to be coming from executives who are gutting a company to realize great quarterly profits. They then jump clear on golden parachutes as the husk of a company nosedives.

      Wise corporations think well ahead, plowing money into research and development, retaining skilled and loyal workers, and cultivating a loyal and fanatical consumer base.

      Palm (and Ha

  • Nitwits (Score:5, Informative)

    by jonnythan (79727) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:13PM (#28056997) Homepage

    If I'm reading correctly, Palm hasn't done anything.

    It seems they signed some NDAs and had a meeting set up. Then one of the guys posted to Twtiter something about the meeting, and as a result Palm canceled the meeting.

    That's it.

    Am I missing something? If not, these guys are tards and making a big deal out of nothing.

    • Re:Nitwits (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DerekLyons (302214) <fairwater@gmFREEBSDail.com minus bsd> on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:29PM (#28057233) Homepage

      Well, it also appears that the balance of their complaint is "we just wanna help and Palm hasn't fallen all over itself to appease us like they must".

    • Re:Nitwits (Score:4, Interesting)

      by TinBromide (921574) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:34PM (#28057295)
      Haha, so the proper title is "overzealous developers get miffed at palm and lose interest in creating community".
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by vertinox (846076)

      Then one of the guys posted to Twtiter something about the meeting, and as a result Palm canceled the meeting.

      All the guy said in Twitter that they were having a meeting with Palm and nothing content related to what they were discussing.

      If that is the reason, then its piss poor community relations. If they guy gave details about what was covered then perhaps that would violate NDA.

      Either way, the behavior of Palm towards its community developers isn't going to get anyone to do them any favors at this point.

      • Re:Nitwits (Score:5, Insightful)

        by NiteMair (309303) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:39PM (#28057387)

        I'm guessing you've never read an NDA from a large corporation. Just the act of mentioning the NDA is often a violation of it - let alone that you are scheduled to meet with them!

        The idiots who think they can re-interpret what an NDA means get what they deserve.

        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          First rule of NDA: Don't talk about NDA

      • Re:Nitwits (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jonnythan (79727) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:44PM (#28057459) Homepage

        Well, the very existence of the meeting may have been covered by the NDA.

        But the contract they signed with these guys was based on no business partnership whatsoever. Palm would have to basically just trust them to abide by the NDA.

        The fact that they twittered about the meeting right after they signed the NDA probably didn't really foster trust in the relationship.

      • If they guy gave details about what was covered then perhaps that would violate NDA.

        Simply disclosing the meeting could very well violate the NDA. It depends on exactly what the NDA required you to not disclose.

    • by rm999 (775449)

      It seems to me like this is one of those situations where someone's feelings got hurt, and they are trying to use the internet to punish the other side. I hate when people do this; if you think you were wronged, act like an adult. From the twitter posts, it seems like Palm's Ambassador is a normal guy who was a bit stressed, and felt he was being pestered. The Pre Dev Camp people should have remained consistent:
      "During the planning phases of the event we agreed that the community would live and thrive with

  • There's nothing self serving or evil about that; it's how things work in big business.

    There are people who feel that those two positions are not mutually exclusive.

  • Ok. So some guys who don't have experience with WebOS want to do a "dev camp". OK, more power to them. Palm reaches out, wanting to encourage this sort of thing.

    The blogger in the linked article then gets an NDA to sign for an upcoming meeting. And then the meeting is canceled... and because they canceled one meeting, obviously palm is "killing" a development community?

    I wonder if Mr. "dancrumb" (Dan Crumb?) was just harping about the HTML + javascript model not being "real" programming, and the OS guys over at Palm realized that a community that didn't want to , you know, write web-style-apps for WebOS wasn't the first developer community they wanted to help?

  • by Cheviot (248921) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:16PM (#28057045)

    I might be missing something, but the fact that they were even having a meeting with Palm would have been covered by the NDA, wouldn't it?

    If they started talking before even the first meeting took place it's not surprising Palm pulled the plug.

  • Read the article (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NiteMair (309303) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:16PM (#28057049)

    It seems like these guys got overzealous that they had signed an NDA and were to meet with Palm, so much so that they couldn't refrain from posting a tweet about it.

    It's likely that one of the conditions of the NDA was that they could not discuss the NDA at all. By claiming they had signed one, in preparation for a meeting with Palm, it was probably a sign that they couldn't keep their enthusiasm contained long enough to even meet with Palm.

    This is speculation on my part, but this is how it seems reading the article. When dealing with corporations and NDAs, one must be careful what one does - the old adage: "loose lips sinks ships" comes to mind.

    • by Locke2005 (849178)
      "The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not talk about Fight Club." Somehow, I don't think this applies to NDAs.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by afabbro (33948)

        "The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not talk about Fight Club." Somehow, I don't think this applies to NDAs.

        Well, it all depends on what you sign, right?

  • I think the preDevCamp guys are over reacting. At least they are getting some acknowledgment from Palm. Let Palm release the damn thing first then have them focus their sites on the community. If the platform is solid and open, people will flock to it, with or without preDevCamp. dam
  • by Anonymous Coward

    You CAN be responsible to your shareholders THROUGH supporting a developer community. In fact, causing this "bad will" by not being supportive is an act of complete irresponsibility to your shareholders, because this move will damage the bottom line.

  • Pre vs. iPhone 3.0 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by TedTodorov (121485)

    I continue to be mystified as to why anyone would seriously consider the Pre over the new iPhone. The iPhone 3.0 http://daringfireball.net/2009/05/the_next_iphone [daringfireball.net] will have twice or four times the capacity as the Pre for the same price (depending on how you wish to count Palm's rebate from the $299 upfront price). The iPhone has a thriving developer community that the will only expand when the iTablet finally gets released, and is unlikely to be duplicated by Palm, even if they stay ion business, which is

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Let's see...

      - I'm going to pay a hell of a lot less for the same kind of data usage/plan from Sprint than I would from an iPhone provider.

      - I don't want to switch carriers anyway

      - The device is cheaper

      - It has a physical keyboard

      - I don't want to run iTunes

      - My primary need is a MID, not a media device

      - I don't need storage, I need capabilities

      • by nedwidek (98930)

        I'll second the above and add that it will be fantastic to have native support for my gtalk though my gmail account and my google apps account.

        The fact that I will be able to have access to my public calendar, personal calendar, and business calendar at the same time is completely fantastic.

        I have an iPod Touch and it is nice, but the one exchange calendar/contacts limitation is driving me nuts.

  • Palm lost the plot years ago, when they decided they wanted to make a laptop replacement to compete with the Pocket PC... even though they were kicking the Pocket PC 4:1 in the market even years after the iPaq allegedly "legitimized" the Windows Powered handheld.

    They could have had Palm handhelds PROFITABLY for sale for $40-$50 in every grocery store in the US, if they'd followed the price-performance curve down to mass market levels. They could have sold entry level models for cost to school districts and replace the Ti-83 and equivalents in classrooms, and everyone would be using Palms and Palm Powered cellphones... but no, Compaq/HP had the ARM-based Pocket PCs and Palm wanted that last 20% of the market... and lost it all.

    • You are exactly right. As Palm saw the tides turning, they should have said "We're going to be a great organizer at a great price that just so happens to run all sorts of applications" where PocketPC was "we're just a little tiny computer that can't do a lot of the things the big one can." If they'd stuck to monochrome on lower-end hardware rather than trying to keep up with PocketPC they could have sold millions of those things to people who thought they'd be a great tool, but not worth the price point ver
    • by nuckfuts (690967)

      They could have had Palm handhelds PROFITABLY for sale for $40-$50 in every grocery store in the US, if they'd followed the price-performance curve down to mass market levels.

      Ultimately I don't think that would succeed. There has always been a drive for featurism in the marketplace. I think it stems from the fact that many purchasers are uncertain about choosing technical products. (Nobody wants to buy the next BetaMAX or HD-DVD, right?). There has to be an simple way to compare products. For computers, people used to compare processor clock speeds. For digital cameras, people compare megapixels. For LCD screens, it might be refresh rate or contrast ratio. People need something

  • Meh (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rnelsonee (98732) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:40PM (#28057405)

    I'm not sure a canceled meeting is newsworthy, but I do feel like Palm isn't bending over backwards to help developers.

    There's still no SDK (I applied to be part of the second limited release - no response), and the SDK ain't exactly complicated - it's javascript - they don't need to do much else than provide the standard packages and put in some new keyword highlights, and get an simulator out. Also there's zero published documentation - I only get PDF updates from the O'Reilly book chapter by chapter as it's written, and even the emulator to get PalmOS apps on WebOS is third party.

    Palm has enough competition with App stores - everyone from Blackberry to SymbianOS is getting their hands dirty with App stores this year. Palm's strength is its developers, and it seems they're going to just let this whole advantage go as they dribble out the SDK at a snail's pace.

    • by fm6 (162816)

      Typical. First they stick with their legacy OS long, long after it's obsolete. Then when they finally get around to replacing it, they fail to support their developers. Jeez, a new platform has the deck stacked against it even if you do everything right. No developer/hacker ecosystem? The things dead before it's even released.

      Palm's capacity for shooting itself in the foot is amazing. The first Palm I owned was a V [wikipedia.org]. The V series made me fall in love with the platform, and is still my favorite. But even it h

  • When? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sexconker (1179573) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:43PM (#28057445)

    When will corporations realize that community support is the best way to drive success?

    When it's true.
    Sorry nerds, the best way to drive success is to dangle shiny bobbles in front of the plebes, and charge them out the ass for it.
    Deal with it.

  • devHissyFit (Score:4, Funny)

    by obarthelemy (160321) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:45PM (#28057469)

    not to worry, clearly these jokers are very well equipped to relaunch under a new name: devHissyFit

  • by LisaBrewster (1560355) on Friday May 22, 2009 @01:57PM (#28057713)
    I had a phone conversation with Pam, Palm's VP of Developer Marketing last night, and I can assure you that communication has NOT broken down between them and preDevCamp. It's unfortunate that whurley, Giovanni, and Dan had such a bad experience, but for business reasons Palm has to maintain tight secrecy until the phone is launched. The best course of action in this case is not to scold them for what they can't do for us, but work together and adjust expectations accordingly.

    Pam was very eager to know what we need to have a successful event, and I expect to have their full co-operation going forward. It just needs to be a bit more on their terms than whurley, Giovanni, and Dan anticipated.

    There's a thread open regarding preDevCamp on the Palm Developer Network forums with at least three Palm employees actively participating (VP Pam, Community Manager Chuq, and Chuq's boss). Maybe yesterday's news put the fear of God in Palm, but they're definitely willing to work with the community to ensure that preDevCamp is successful.
  • by advocate_one (662832) on Friday May 22, 2009 @03:10PM (#28058603)
    when they made it ridiculously hard to develop apps on any platform other than Windows...
  • While the number of applications available for Blackberry has been growing their success was not because of the number of applications but the quality of the core system, phone/email/web etc. Instead of going after Apple and their app store Palm might rather be wanting to specialize, like Blackberry did, to refine, and dominate the business user market with good core functionality.
  • by xtal (49134) on Friday May 22, 2009 @03:45PM (#28059085)

    Palm has gone the way of all cool tech companies that get taken over by suits and forget their markets. Instead of spending the time to invest in a next-generation handheld - the palm V, in ~2000, and figure this out then they did more of the same, and released bigger, power sucking devices that forgot the real utility needed.

    I owned a USR Palm, a Palm Pro, a Palm III, a m500, a m505, and a Tungsten. I loved their early API. Now.. why bother?

    The Pre has no chance. If they cared about their shareholders, they would sell the company and refund the money with a "Sorry for being stupid" letter.

    Apple has provided a unified platform, a brilliant storefront, and hardware people are willing to pay a premium for - providing them the margin they need to stay ahead of the game.

    Palm's advantage is what, exactly?

  • by Hurricane78 (562437) <deleted@slashd o t .org> on Friday May 22, 2009 @05:26PM (#28060099)

    As a corporation, I acknowledge that Palm's only responsibility is to its shareholders.

    It's funny how people sometimes do not think around the next corner. Most of the time, I see half-baked thoughts, that never got thought to the end, because... well... thinking is uncool??

    What do they think, that the shareholders want? More money.
    And how to they think they get more money? By having more customers, who pay more.

    Well... why would potential customers buy more from them? Because they offer them what they want. (Aka realize their dreams and hopes.)

    But nowadays it's all: Just screw 'em over, and then bind them with the most expensive hidden fees, plans and contracts.

    I remember, how an ex-coworker of mine took over the shopping portal of a large Internet portal. He single-handedly made it boom like crazy.
    People wanted to know, how he did it.
    His secret? Make them happy. Even if it costs more in the beginning.
    Not only did he try to fulfill the wishes of the customers. No. He also made all the business partners / suppliers happy. They had a wish? He was there. He gave them little presents. They gave him some. (Like better offers, better deals.) It was like real friendships. Sometimes suppliers just called him to chat and crack jokes.
    Others would have said, that this was bad. But he did not. He knew how to let it grow.
    And he was proven right.

    Nowadays he works for ebay, and has tons of cash. And he really earned it... instead of tricking people into traps.
    The word earning really has lost its meaning. :(

  • Not all hope is lost (Score:5, Informative)

    by dancrumb (626952) <danrumney@w[ ]mail.net ['arp' in gap]> on Friday May 22, 2009 @05:28PM (#28060119) Homepage
    As one of the founders of preDevCamp, I have to counter the OP's ominous analysis of the situation. While this "seems to have gutted the founders of any and all enthusiasm they may have once had", I'd like to assure you that I still am enthusiastic for the platform. I still believe that bringing HTML/JS/CSS into the realm of mobile development will make a great impact on this field. I'm still committed to seeing preDevCamp through and making it the biggest and best DevCamp possible.

When I left you, I was but the pupil. Now, I am the master. - Darth Vader

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