Engadget is reporting that Amazon has announced the new Kindle 2 for release on February 24th at a price point of $359. Thinner than an iPhone and coming standard with "Read-to-me" text-to-speech capability, the new device also has seven times more storage, faster page turning, a 16-level e-ink display, longer battery life, and a new five-way joystick. Looks like life just got a lot more interesting for fans of the original device. Engadget also has live coverage from the Kindle 2 press conference.
No, you're old when you recall that you HAD a six-million-dollar-man doll... er, action figure, plus his boss Oscar, and Oscar's exploding briefcase. You could look through Steve's head through his bionic eye and see the girls at the playground giggling at your, um, action figure set.
The thing with the kindle is that it includes "free" online access to locate and deliver books. so you can be anywhere and look for and purchase a new book. the book is then delivered to your kindle.
most other ebooks are just displays.
I think until there is any significant threat to kindle, you're going to see the price stay high.
they will convert personal documents you email to them. They will email it back and you can download it to your Kindle or get it over their Whispernet (aka cel phone tranmissions) for a small fee. The do say PDFs are tricky to convert and might retain their original formatting which will cause viewing problems.
The Kindle 1.0 beefs I had:
Page buttons placed to almost automatically get in the way when holding the device (Fixed in 2.0) Page transitions slow (Fixed in 2.0) Picture and diagram handling in books. (Possibly fixed in 2.0)
Color screen (not fixed in 2.0) I know it's going to take a couple years for electronic ink to catch up with normal screen displays.
Why is a color screen an issue for text? Highlighting and diagram distinction for starters. I work at a university. I looked at the Kindle as an inexpensive way for students to get most (or all) their textbooks digitally. The $349 is nothing compared to the cash amounts students are bilked every year. Amazon's Kindle content management hangs onto a copy for another download if necessary due to Kindle loss etc. Although without color it makes most graphic examples in scientific texts impossible to read.
For straight text the Kindle is still the strongest Ebook reader out there for text. Plus Wireless download, basic internet surfing, audiobooks, mp3 player. OK, you get this all with a laptop, tablet, or now notebook, but not in such a compact form.
If you can find anything better good on ya mate. Otherwise, I'll hang onto my 1.0 for awhile and upgrade as time moves on.
I'm probably not playing to the crowd here, but in this case DRM whiners can either go home or hack around it. For all my beefs the Kindle's still a nice reader.
>For straight text the Kindle is still the strongest Ebook reader out there for text.
Sorry, I have to disagree there. Looking at the oldest PDA I have a Dell Axim X3i, which I use almost solely for eBook reading, here's what it's got:
-eBook reading via at least 5 different programs for different formats - everything from RTF and TXT to HTML to zipped HTML to CHM to PDF to.lit to just about every format out there. Great support via ebook sales sites (which I never use, being a big fan of PG)
-Wireless internet access
-Internet surfing (Pocket IE, but on my intranet or at my public library it's super-convenient)
-Note-taking and audio note-recording
-MP3 playing
-One week's worth of usage (extended battery)
-NES Games and normal PDA games
-Japanese Kanji dictionary (something I need)
-Astronomy applications for night-time viewing
-Alarm clock that wakes me every morning with the Mr. Rogers theme
-Music composition software (oops, yes, I am a musician)
-Lightweight, small form factor
-Religion-related software (you might not need it)
-...probably other things I missed...
Price:
-Dell Axim x3i on eBay: $75
-New extended-life 2000mA battery $25
-Hard case (life-saver): $15
-2GB SD Card: Already had one
I use this with my Linux laptop by loading everything (.cab files for app installs, etc.) via the SD card.
This is why I don't own a Kindle already. I'm guessing the PDA will last me another 2-4 years. I wouldn't recommend a PDA like this for somebody who's a daft idiot or a usability nazi that ruminates about friends not being able to use their device to look up a phone number when they're lying under an overturned bus, but for Slashdotters with guts and a bias toward making things work, it's perfect.
I work at a university. I looked at the Kindle as an inexpensive way for students to get most (or all)
their textbooks digitally. The $349 is nothing compared to the cash amounts students are bilked every year.
I keep seeing this come up as an opportunity for the Kindle. This is one of the places where I think the Kindle would be a huge failure. I buy textbooks used on the Internet (NOT from a bookstore) and sell them used on the Internet. I come close to breaking even with the exception of transaction fees (commission to half.com and shipping costs). I don't understand why I would be interested in paying $349 in order to pay $100/book for books I can't sell, and worse, might have some kind of time lock associated with them (these are already sold on some websites).
The thing with the kindle is that it includes "free" online access to locate and deliver books. so you can be anywhere and look for and purchase a new book. the book is then delivered to your kindle.
That's the thing that angers me about Amazon's current Kindle plan. I mean, being able to buy a book from anywhere is great, but not worth an extra $200 for me.
I would happily restrict myself to only being able to buy books when I'm plugged into my computer via USB, or in range of a wifi network if it meant that I could buy a Kindle for $150 instead of $350.
I don't understand why Amazon insists on only selling one expensive version of this product. If they released a cheaper version sans cellular capabilities, I think they'd sell lots more, and by extension sell many more e-books.
by Anonymous Coward
on Monday February 09 2009, @12:40PM (#26786123)
The problem isn't the cost of the reader. The problem is the cost of the books. Recently, the cost of an ebook for the Kindle has been comparable to the cover price for a hardback copy. Even after the paperback has long been on the market. We should be looking at a lower cost, due to manufacturing and supply savings, but, instead, we have to pay a fortune.
by Anonymous Coward
on Monday February 09 2009, @04:03PM (#26789753)
The problem with that article is that they're talking about the total print run of the paper and dividing that by the number of subscribers. What about the millions of people who buy the NYT on newsstands everyday? The printed copy they're paying for and reading is being taken into account in the printing costs, but they're not being considered as "readers" by Silicon Alley Insider. A perfect example of lying by cherry-picking your numbers.
Exactly, and moreover, as someone whose personal library (easily several thousand books, 'bout half of which I've read) came mostly from USED bookstores, specialty dealers, random online sources, yard sales, etc., the idea that I don't have an option of buying used/wholesale/opportunistically-on-sale is pretty much a deal-killer for me.
That's the point of DRM-encumbered digital media. They want to kill the second-hand market. If they can keep people from selling their books/music or loaning them to other people, then they get to sell that a few more copies.
That has not been my experience - new best-seller books are typically 9.99. Older paper-back stuff is between used books store and new prices - $3.50 or $4 for stuff I like. Certainly there are books outside this range - but for my reading tastes the cost per book is definitely cheaper than dead tree.
To say nothing of project Gutenberg texts - for free.
I doubt I have saved enough to pay for the initial cost - but the convenience is great. I'm also a gadget hound so that is just par for the course... I'm a happy kindle user!
by Anonymous Coward
on Monday February 09 2009, @12:41PM (#26786129)
Convince me not to.
DRM. Your books now have a limited lifetime (probably measured in years, not decades, let alone centuries) and cannot be passed on to anyone else. When the Kindle service disappears, which can happen at any time, say goodbye to your books.
I'm not sure how a Kindle works, but on my Sony Reader there are plenty of sources for books both legal (usually older books) and non legal.
You can go on the pirate bay right now and download a library of like 10k sci-fi and fantasy books by hundreds of authors. All DRM free!
If you have that conscience telling you to pay for your stuff, pay amazons price then just download the DRM-free version elsewhere. There may be legal connotations but you'd have to find quite a stickler to say there is a moral problem with that.
I don't mind iTunes (though I've only bought maybe 30 or 40 songs) since I can burn the songs to CD and I have them for as long as Apples is around or my CD doesn't degrade, whichever is longer. And I've bought some TV episodes for my daughter to watch on my iPhone--same deal: it's not a huge loss to me if I can't see Backyardigans for some reason:-)
But my affinity for books is such that I just cannot accept losing access to ones that I've paid for based on the service going under. It might not be rational, but I just don't have the same feeling about music.
I'll buy eBooks from Baen based on the fact that I can download text/HTML versions that I can keep even if their bookstore goes under. But I'm not buying DRM eBook content and I'm not subsidizing Amazon's DRM efforts by buying their reader.
Which is why I strip the DRM off my kindle books, and archive them as an EPub. I do the same with.LIT books I buy. It's a simple procedure, and should be cake for anyone with enough skills to use a linux box:)
But seriously, with the crappy paper they print paperbacks on, their lifespans are only measured in maybe decades. I had to convert my Eddings series to EBook because the paper versions I bought in the late 80's are now crumbling and falling apart.
EBooks I can move from device to device, and storage medium to storage medium for as long as I care to.
DRM is bad, agreed—but monopoly is worse. If you buy a Kindle, you are buying into a scheme where you can buy media from only one vendor, and your media is not likely to ever be readable anywhere but on your Kindle.
I'm not buying any ebook until the publishing industry gets together and agrees on a standard (i.e., decides just which crappy DRM scheme they will stick us with.) That would mean the beginnings of a real competitive market in the ebook field: you would have a choice of manufacturers from which to choose, and a choice of media vendors.
The ebook situation today is as though there were a few companies selling DVD players, and each would only play DVDs made by that company. Would you buy one? That was, in fact, the actual situation at the very start of the audio record industry. Some people did buy those early proprietary format record players, for the sheer novelty value. I suppose that's the reason people buy Kindles. But ebooks will not become ubiquitous until the media rights issues are straightened out in a way that's at least minimally acceptable to manufacturers, publishers, and readers alike.
Even a "Kindle Lite" would be awesome, if made significantly cheaper. About $129-169 is more in the range where mass adoption begins for something like this. No keyboard, no nifty features, just the nice e-ink screen and some storage space (enough for say, 20-50 books, these files aren't huge) and a way to turn the pages. I would most likely get one for that range, even if it was slightly thicker. Nearly $400 for a way to read books is a toy. Jesus, M$ only charges $199 for an Xbox360, is the kindle re
Jesus, M$ only charges $199 for an Xbox360, is the kindle really that much more expensive technologically? Is the screen worth so much? Where is the cost coming from, anyone?
Free usage of Sprint's 3G network. Not only for browsing the book store, but you can also check some blogs/news sites (including Slashdot), and you can access Wikipedia. No monthly fee, your $360 covers that "forever". Or until they change it, whatever comes first.
You're never going to "break even" on a device like this--it doesn't appreciate in value and it doesn't offer any savings over what you might have spent on books, since eBooks are currently the same price as paper books.
To add insult to injury, once you've bought in to Amazon's DRM'd eBooks, you'll have to go on buying a new Kindle each time one reaches the end of its useful life just to maintain access to content that you've already paid for.
If the parent wants one and is willing to accept the compromise of the current high price and DRM'd content against having it now, he should go for it.
Come on Amazon. It still looks like a plastic toy. For god's sakes, team up with Sony or Apple (kidnap Jonathon Ives). Alternatively, license out your DRM tech so Sony can build a reader compatible with your service.
Frankly, I can't wait until someone figures out a way to make a digital version of the public library. Make it like O'Reilly's Safari: Monthly subscription, X amount of titles on your "shelf" at any given time (tiered subscription?), with the option to "buy it" for permanent downloads (or just buy it outright and skip the sub-shelf), etc. I'd gladly pay $15/month for something like this, much like I already do with Napster To Go.
Come on Amazon. It still looks like a plastic toy. For god's sakes, team up with Sony or Apple (kidnap Jonathon Ives). Alternatively, license out your DRM tech so Sony can build a reader compatible with your service.
It actually looks... clunky to me... like an "Electric Book of the Future!" from the 1970s.
The screen appears too small, but that's really because there are far too many buttons, and way too much unused space.
For the price of an iPhone, can't they make it touchscreen?
with the release of the original Kindle. Perhaps they still can.
The Kindle here is somewhat of a disappointment to me but its aesthetics are much better than than the first generation. Yet, the screen is only usable for fiction novels and the like, and the form factor is such that the keyboard takes up half the space. Either way, they should have eliminated the physical keyboard for an onscreen version (really, you can't exactly type a thesis with that thing as it is now) for that searching or annotation convenience. For serious annotation, the iRex iLiad and DR1000S have a wacom enabled screen with stylus. In this way, you can really go for a small reader that fits in a purse, or use that existing or slightly bigger form for 10x8 screen, allowing to display 11x8.5 pages sans margins.
I don't know how they sell the new york times on something like that. I can see it on the even smaller iPhone but only because of multitouch and reverse pinching (zoom in) to the exact story someone wants. But I would not pay for an ereader at current prices in the fiction novel page size; I would glady pay money for something that allows me to read reference guides and textbooks without scrolling horizontally, perhaps not vertically.
All the other readers I see on the market are toys. Like iRex, which sells there models as finished products but are woefully in the prototype stage even after years of development and being on the market because lack of serious money behind it, I suppose. One symptom there is that despite the promise of e-ink not using energy other than when the page is being changed, their CPU doesn't really go to sleep, requiring daily recharging of the device and thoroughly defeating half of the purpose of a good ereader in the first place. I tried the Sony, it wasn't bad but nothing great.
If the Kindle should get credit for anything, it was the Sprint EVDO connection in the first and now 3G in the second without stupid monthly fees - it just being there. That alone will make it the winner in time, everything else stay the same.
If Apple had been keen on building their media empire, they'd should have gotten into ebooks when the 1st gen kindle was released tbh. The market was ready for something with a decent interface and good hardware/software integration. They already sell music, movies, tv shows, and this will consolidate the last major piece of the list. Before someone says "color" screens, or Plastic Logic's flexible screens or the like, that's precisely what upgrades are for. Now, I'm afraid, the worse is better philosophy won out again.
Other than screen size, this model looks like a winner.
I was considering buying one of these once the new version came out. One of the media release photos, meant to show the slimness of the device, has the Kindle leaning up next to a copy of pop-sociologist Malcolm Gladwell's new book, "The Outliers."
A few days ago, I was invited to the Union League in Philadelphia to see Mr. Gladwell speak to a group of roughly 550 local leaders, CEOs, etc. We were all provided with a "free" (in quotes because there was an entrance fee on all tickets, so the book was paid for by that cost) copy of his latest book and breakfast, and then afterward Mr. Gladwell did a Q&A session followed by a book signing.
It was the collaboration at the event, with people scribbling notes in the margins of the book, discussing certain paragraphs, and having the author sign each copy, that made me relish having the hardback with me. (Even if I do find his work a bit trite at times.)
In the end, I've opted not to buy this gadget, because ultimately, it's just not as satisfying or lasting as having a book. I have books given to me by my grandparents that they had as teenagers, what do you think the odds are that a Kindle or the formats it supports will last even two decades? I'm going to stick to my dead trees, thank you.
And yet, some of us just want to read the books, not treasure them as eternal keepsakes. That's what eBooks are about.
I won't say I don't have books that I treasure because of who gave them to me (Grandma's gift of Mark Twain) but those books are few and far between. I read a -lot- of books, and 12 years ago or ago, I had so many that it wasn't possible to move to a new house without getting rid of some. I moved across the country. Most of my books were sold then, with only a precious few kept.
Had I had eBooks, I'd still have most of the those books instead of the $.50 each I got from them. And yes, I'd probably re-read most of them.
So now I buy eBooks. I can read them whenever I want and they weigh nothing. If I lose them, I can re-download them for free and all I might lose is a bookmark. (Losing a book while reading it would be an odd event, though.)
What I'm trying to say is that you're closing off the idea of eBooks without ever having given them a chance. There will always be things that real books do better, but eBooks have things as well.
Do you realize your entire argument could have been based around a backstage pass, having your boxed CD or Vinyl Record, and being glad that they signed it and vowing to never turn that in for one of those new-fangled iPod thingies with the same basic effect, right?
"Information Received. The Device Software will provide Amazon with data about your Device and its interaction with the Service (such as available memory, up-time, log files and signal strength) and information related to the content on your Device and your use of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page read and content deletions from the Device). Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights, or similar markings you make in your Device are backed up through the Service. Information we receive is subject to the Amazon.com Privacy Notice."
Amazon's Kindle 2 is the same as a Sony PRS-700 (out for a while now) without a reading light, without a touch screen, and with Amazon DRM lock-in.
The only good thing going for the Kindle 2 is Amazon's marketing and their exclusive Kindle store.
by Anonymous Coward
on Monday February 09 2009, @01:02PM (#26786543)
Most consumers will not pay a barely discounted or not at all discounted price on a heavily DRMed good that's limited to a single device (be it iPod or Kindle) that could have the plug pulled at any time. Many DVDs now come with "Digital copies" with iPod and Windows compatibility, and they're selling like hotcakes. It's easier and it makes sense.
Want to spur consumers to use eBooks?
-Consider DRM-free books with the name embedded. The geeks will get it out, but for the majority of people, they'll buy their own books and not share.
-If you are going to use DRM, make it worth the hassle by making the book much cheaper. In essence, when I buy a DRMed eBook, I'm buying a license that can be revoked at any time to read the text. Why should I pay $18 for an eBook when it's from a $20 hardcover? Especially without distribution or even physical costs.
-If Amazon sold Kindle "codes" in the books to apply the book to your Kindle, you get the pride of owning a book (that can't ever be turned off) and the convenience of a Kindle copy too. And newspapers, if they don't want to go the way of the dodo, should include Kindle access for print subscribers. I get the WSJ and they want me to pay TWICE to get it on a Kindle. Even if I got a Kindle I wouldn't pay twice.
At $360, with a nonremovable battery (thinness is good, but I'd prefer being able to pop in a spare) and expensive (for the format) content, I can't bite. I've wanted to get an eBook reader for years, but this isn't ready yet.
This was one of my chief complaints when I bought my girlfriend a Kindle for Christmas.
Then I looked into it - you can have up to six Kindles on one account. If I buy one of these for myself, and she buys a book, or I buy a book, we both get it.
Of course, if we split up we have to haggle over who gets Kindle Account Custody, or else see what one another is reading for eternity.:) And for $659 between the two (I paid $300 during the 'Oprah' sale on the Kindle 1 in November), it's still not cheap.
For a long while I was set on getting an ereader. I just had to have one. I tried reading books on my crackberry but the screen was just too damn small and scrolling was a pain. The only thing that kept be from buying a Sony ereader or a Kindle was the price. For the money you can instead buy an Xbox 360 (I have two and the last was only $160 thanks to a coupon at CircuitCity), or an Iphone ($199 for an 8 gig) or hell, get both. So that's what I ended up doing. I bought both.
Is my ereader experience as great as that on a Kindle? I dunno. What I do know is that it's "good enough" for my uses. I just want to read some fiction. I want to kick back and read some Robin Cook or Dean Koontz in the can or at a theater while waiting for the show or whatever. I use Stanza on my iPhone and I downloaded a few collections via torrents and I'm all set for quite a while. Plus I have a phone and an mp3 player and God knows what else I've added to my phone. And like I said earlier, I also have a second Xbox 360 which obviously lets me play games but I wanted a second for streaming movies and tv shows into my bedroom.
Maybe if I had a train ride to work everyday a Kindle would make sense, but even then it's too big to be dropped in my pocket and I'd still have to have my phone with me. Who wants yet another gadget to lug around?
If not, still not interested. I don't want to pay amazon to convert something I've already paid for. Postscript is a standard, and they should make it compatible if they want to increase their market share. Period. I have my entire o'reilly and cisco library in PDF on my laptop. The only reason I'd get a kindle is to have them in a more convenient form for study and reference when I'm unable to access my laptop. Oh yeah, so far as I know kindle books can't be read outside of the kindle appliance.
uh, except the first version already held a few hundred books (without using an SD card), and the battery would give several days of reading and several weeks of standby already.
Sure, the new numbers are better, but not so much that one would now find their older version 'useless'. 7 times more than you need is still more than you need.
Books aren't like songs - there's not really a lot to gain by having 1500 with you at all times. I keep ~5 books on mine at any time usually, just because there's not really any motivation to have more. I tend to only read one book at a time or two in parallel.
My main complaint with the gen 1 device is that even though it has a mini USB port, it can't be charged that way with any standard cell phone charger. It has it's own charger and connection, which means one more charger that I have to travel with. I haven't seen anything that says if this has been changed with the updated device.
For novels, sure, you read one or maybe two in parallel. But now consider reference manuals and other techie books. I'm sure anyone reading/. has loads of them. I sure wouldn't mind taking them all with me if at all possible on this device.
Not going to happen, as I'm definitely not going to buy my books again, just in a different format.
Give me my current bookcollection for free with the device, I already payed for the content and the duplication cost of e-books is zero.
Having an e-ink screen and text-to-speech on the same device is an odd match. If you want to read, read. If you want to listen, get an audio book for your mp3 player. Spare yourself the synthetic voice. Unless you enjoy imagining Stephen Hawking is in your car reading to you.
This might good for my copy of "A Brief History of Time"...
A bargain price, based on that hype. (Score:5, Funny)
Cripes, after reading the post, the only thing missing was the soundtrack from the Six-Million Dollar Man...
Better, stronger, faster than ever before...
Oh, c'mon, what do you mean you've never heard of The Six-Million dollar man? Steve Austin, you know the pilot who...shit, nevermind.
Damn, I'm getting old.
Re:A bargain price, based on that hype. (Score:5, Funny)
Having that sound effect play every time you turned the page would get annoying.
Parent
Re:A bargain price, based on that hype. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:A bargain price, based on that hype. (Score:5, Funny)
I've heard of The Six-Million Dollar Man: he's a traditional punch line to jokes told by old people, right?
Parent
Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Interesting)
Convince me not to.
It is the ease of getting new material that appeals to me, I like to read but I am terrible at buying books.
The price is a bit steep. Eventually these have to come down in price? Anyone any ideas when there will be a decent sub $100 ebook reader?
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing with the kindle is that it includes "free" online access to locate and deliver books. so you can be anywhere and look for and purchase a new book. the book is then delivered to your kindle.
most other ebooks are just displays.
I think until there is any significant threat to kindle, you're going to see the price stay high.
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Insightful)
My beef with kindle is use of DRM and its high price. For $350, I would want unlimited access to books.
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Informative)
I have a 1.0 Kindle.
This is what I gather. Yes, it's a proprietary format, but
according to Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200140600 [amazon.com]
(no I'm not going to hyperlink it)
they will convert personal documents you email to them.
They will email it back and you can download it to your Kindle or get
it over their Whispernet (aka cel phone tranmissions) for a small fee.
The do say PDFs are tricky to convert and might retain their original formatting
which will cause viewing problems.
The Kindle 1.0 beefs I had:
Page buttons placed to almost automatically get in the way when holding the device (Fixed in 2.0)
Page transitions slow (Fixed in 2.0)
Picture and diagram handling in books. (Possibly fixed in 2.0)
Color screen (not fixed in 2.0) I know it's going
to take a couple years for electronic ink to catch up with normal screen displays.
Why is a color screen an issue for text? Highlighting and diagram distinction for starters.
I work at a university. I looked at the Kindle as an inexpensive way for students to get most (or all)
their textbooks digitally. The $349 is nothing compared to the cash amounts students are bilked every year.
Amazon's Kindle content management hangs onto a copy for another download if necessary due to Kindle loss etc.
Although without color it makes most graphic examples in scientific texts impossible to read.
For straight text the Kindle is still the strongest Ebook reader out there for text. Plus Wireless download, basic internet surfing, audiobooks, mp3 player. OK, you get this all with a laptop, tablet, or now notebook, but not in
such a compact form.
If you can find anything better good on ya mate. Otherwise, I'll hang onto my 1.0 for awhile and upgrade
as time moves on.
I'm probably not playing to the crowd here, but in this case DRM whiners can either go home or hack around it.
For all my beefs the Kindle's still a nice reader.
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Funny)
Good God, your
post looks
like an e.
e cummings poem.
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, I have to disagree there. Looking at the oldest PDA I have a Dell Axim X3i, which I use almost solely for eBook reading, here's what it's got:
-eBook reading via at least 5 different programs for different formats - everything from RTF and TXT to HTML to zipped HTML to CHM to PDF to
-Wireless internet access
-Internet surfing (Pocket IE, but on my intranet or at my public library it's super-convenient)
-Note-taking and audio note-recording
-MP3 playing
-One week's worth of usage (extended battery)
-NES Games and normal PDA games
-Japanese Kanji dictionary (something I need)
-Astronomy applications for night-time viewing
-Alarm clock that wakes me every morning with the Mr. Rogers theme
-Music composition software (oops, yes, I am a musician)
-Lightweight, small form factor
-Religion-related software (you might not need it)
-...probably other things I missed...
Price:
-Dell Axim x3i on eBay: $75
-New extended-life 2000mA battery $25
-Hard case (life-saver): $15
-2GB SD Card: Already had one
I use this with my Linux laptop by loading everything (.cab files for app installs, etc.) via the SD card.
This is why I don't own a Kindle already. I'm guessing the PDA will last me another 2-4 years. I wouldn't recommend a PDA like this for somebody who's a daft idiot or a usability nazi that ruminates about friends not being able to use their device to look up a phone number when they're lying under an overturned bus, but for Slashdotters with guts and a bias toward making things work, it's perfect.
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Insightful)
I keep seeing this come up as an opportunity for the Kindle. This is one of the places where I think the Kindle would be a huge failure. I buy textbooks used on the Internet (NOT from a bookstore) and sell them used on the Internet. I come close to breaking even with the exception of transaction fees (commission to half.com and shipping costs). I don't understand why I would be interested in paying $349 in order to pay $100/book for books I can't sell, and worse, might have some kind of time lock associated with them (these are already sold on some websites).
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing with the kindle is that it includes "free" online access to locate and deliver books. so you can be anywhere and look for and purchase a new book. the book is then delivered to your kindle.
That's the thing that angers me about Amazon's current Kindle plan. I mean, being able to buy a book from anywhere is great, but not worth an extra $200 for me.
I would happily restrict myself to only being able to buy books when I'm plugged into my computer via USB, or in range of a wifi network if it meant that I could buy a Kindle for $150 instead of $350.
I don't understand why Amazon insists on only selling one expensive version of this product. If they released a cheaper version sans cellular capabilities, I think they'd sell lots more, and by extension sell many more e-books.
Oh Amazon, why do you fail me?
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Informative)
The problem isn't the cost of the reader. The problem is the cost of the books. Recently, the cost of an ebook for the Kindle has been comparable to the cover price for a hardback copy. Even after the paperback has long been on the market. We should be looking at a lower cost, due to manufacturing and supply savings, but, instead, we have to pay a fortune.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Informative)
Especially since this story:
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/printing-the-nyt-costs-twice-as-much-as-sending-every-subscriber-a-free-kindle [alleyinsider.com]
Printing (and sending) The New York Times (over a year) Costs Twice As Much As Sending Every Subscriber A Free Kindle
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly, and moreover, as someone whose personal library (easily several thousand books, 'bout half of which I've read) came mostly from USED bookstores, specialty dealers, random online sources, yard sales, etc., the idea that I don't have an option of buying used/wholesale/opportunistically-on-sale is pretty much a deal-killer for me.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the point of DRM-encumbered digital media. They want to kill the second-hand market. If they can keep people from selling their books/music or loaning them to other people, then they get to sell that a few more copies.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Informative)
That has not been my experience - new best-seller books are typically 9.99. Older paper-back stuff is between used books store and new prices - $3.50 or $4 for stuff I like. Certainly there are books outside this range - but for my reading tastes the cost per book is definitely cheaper than dead tree.
To say nothing of project Gutenberg texts - for free.
I doubt I have saved enough to pay for the initial cost - but the convenience is great. I'm also a gadget hound so that is just par for the course... I'm a happy kindle user!
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Insightful)
it is hopefully the last time I will have to buy that book.
Given you've bought it in yet another DRM format, I can pretty much guarantee it's not the last time you'll have to buy that book.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Informative)
Convince me not to.
DRM. Your books now have a limited lifetime (probably measured in years, not decades, let alone centuries) and cannot be passed on to anyone else. When the Kindle service disappears, which can happen at any time, say goodbye to your books.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not sure how a Kindle works, but on my Sony Reader there are plenty of sources for books both legal (usually older books) and non legal.
You can go on the pirate bay right now and download a library of like 10k sci-fi and fantasy books by hundreds of authors. All DRM free!
If you have that conscience telling you to pay for your stuff, pay amazons price then just download the DRM-free version elsewhere. There may be legal connotations but you'd have to find quite a stickler to say there is a moral problem with that.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Insightful)
DRM is 100% the deal killer (for ebooks) for me.
I don't mind iTunes (though I've only bought maybe 30 or 40 songs) since I can burn the songs to CD and I have them for as long as Apples is around or my CD doesn't degrade, whichever is longer. And I've bought some TV episodes for my daughter to watch on my iPhone--same deal: it's not a huge loss to me if I can't see Backyardigans for some reason :-)
But my affinity for books is such that I just cannot accept losing access to ones that I've paid for based on the service going under. It might not be rational, but I just don't have the same feeling about music.
I'll buy eBooks from Baen based on the fact that I can download text/HTML versions that I can keep even if their bookstore goes under. But I'm not buying DRM eBook content and I'm not subsidizing Amazon's DRM efforts by buying their reader.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Interesting)
Which is why I strip the DRM off my kindle books, and archive them as an EPub. I do the same with .LIT books I buy. It's a simple procedure, and should be cake for anyone with enough skills to use a linux box :)
But seriously, with the crappy paper they print paperbacks on, their lifespans are only measured in maybe decades. I had to convert my Eddings series to EBook because the paper versions I bought in the late 80's are now crumbling and falling apart.
EBooks I can move from device to device, and storage medium to storage medium for as long as I care to.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Interesting)
DRM is bad, agreed—but monopoly is worse. If you buy a Kindle, you are buying into a scheme where you can buy media from only one vendor, and your media is not likely to ever be readable anywhere but on your Kindle.
I'm not buying any ebook until the publishing industry gets together and agrees on a standard (i.e., decides just which crappy DRM scheme they will stick us with.) That would mean the beginnings of a real competitive market in the ebook field: you would have a choice of manufacturers from which to choose, and a choice of media vendors.
The ebook situation today is as though there were a few companies selling DVD players, and each would only play DVDs made by that company. Would you buy one? That was, in fact, the actual situation at the very start of the audio record industry. Some people did buy those early proprietary format record players, for the sheer novelty value. I suppose that's the reason people buy Kindles. But ebooks will not become ubiquitous until the media rights issues are straightened out in a way that's at least minimally acceptable to manufacturers, publishers, and readers alike.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Informative)
Jesus, M$ only charges $199 for an Xbox360, is the kindle really that much more expensive technologically? Is the screen worth so much? Where is the cost coming from, anyone?
Free usage of Sprint's 3G network. Not only for browsing the book store, but you can also check some blogs/news sites (including Slashdot), and you can access Wikipedia. No monthly fee, your $360 covers that "forever". Or until they change it, whatever comes first.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:5, Funny)
No music or games. Less space than a usb stick. Lame.
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Re:Very tempted to get this (Score:4, Interesting)
"Break even" on a Kindle?
You're never going to "break even" on a device like this--it doesn't appreciate in value and it doesn't offer any savings over what you might have spent on books, since eBooks are currently the same price as paper books.
To add insult to injury, once you've bought in to Amazon's DRM'd eBooks, you'll have to go on buying a new Kindle each time one reaches the end of its useful life just to maintain access to content that you've already paid for.
If the parent wants one and is willing to accept the compromise of the current high price and DRM'd content against having it now, he should go for it.
It's not for me, though.
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And Still Ugly As Sin. (Score:3, Insightful)
Come on Amazon. It still looks like a plastic toy. For god's sakes, team up with Sony or Apple (kidnap Jonathon Ives). Alternatively, license out your DRM tech so Sony can build a reader compatible with your service.
Frankly, I can't wait until someone figures out a way to make a digital version of the public library. Make it like O'Reilly's Safari: Monthly subscription, X amount of titles on your "shelf" at any given time (tiered subscription?), with the option to "buy it" for permanent downloads (or just buy it outright and skip the sub-shelf), etc. I'd gladly pay $15/month for something like this, much like I already do with Napster To Go.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Come on Amazon. It still looks like a plastic toy. For god's sakes, team up with Sony or Apple (kidnap Jonathon Ives). Alternatively, license out your DRM tech so Sony can build a reader compatible with your service.
It actually looks... clunky to me... like an "Electric Book of the Future!" from the 1970s.
The screen appears too small, but that's really because there are far too many buttons, and way too much unused space.
For the price of an iPhone, can't they make it touchscreen?
Apple should really have gone into this market (Score:3, Interesting)
with the release of the original Kindle. Perhaps they still can.
The Kindle here is somewhat of a disappointment to me but its aesthetics are much better than than the first generation. Yet, the screen is only usable for fiction novels and the like, and the form factor is such that the keyboard takes up half the space. Either way, they should have eliminated the physical keyboard for an onscreen version (really, you can't exactly type a thesis with that thing as it is now) for that searching or annotation convenience. For serious annotation, the iRex iLiad and DR1000S have a wacom enabled screen with stylus. In this way, you can really go for a small reader that fits in a purse, or use that existing or slightly bigger form for 10x8 screen, allowing to display 11x8.5 pages sans margins.
I don't know how they sell the new york times on something like that. I can see it on the even smaller iPhone but only because of multitouch and reverse pinching (zoom in) to the exact story someone wants. But I would not pay for an ereader at current prices in the fiction novel page size; I would glady pay money for something that allows me to read reference guides and textbooks without scrolling horizontally, perhaps not vertically.
All the other readers I see on the market are toys. Like iRex, which sells there models as finished products but are woefully in the prototype stage even after years of development and being on the market because lack of serious money behind it, I suppose. One symptom there is that despite the promise of e-ink not using energy other than when the page is being changed, their CPU doesn't really go to sleep, requiring daily recharging of the device and thoroughly defeating half of the purpose of a good ereader in the first place. I tried the Sony, it wasn't bad but nothing great.
If the Kindle should get credit for anything, it was the Sprint EVDO connection in the first and now 3G in the second without stupid monthly fees - it just being there. That alone will make it the winner in time, everything else stay the same.
If Apple had been keen on building their media empire, they'd should have gotten into ebooks when the 1st gen kindle was released tbh. The market was ready for something with a decent interface and good hardware/software integration. They already sell music, movies, tv shows, and this will consolidate the last major piece of the list. Before someone says "color" screens, or Plastic Logic's flexible screens or the like, that's precisely what upgrades are for. Now, I'm afraid, the worse is better philosophy won out again.
Other than screen size, this model looks like a winner.
Funny this. (Score:5, Insightful)
A few days ago, I was invited to the Union League in Philadelphia to see Mr. Gladwell speak to a group of roughly 550 local leaders, CEOs, etc. We were all provided with a "free" (in quotes because there was an entrance fee on all tickets, so the book was paid for by that cost) copy of his latest book and breakfast, and then afterward Mr. Gladwell did a Q&A session followed by a book signing.
It was the collaboration at the event, with people scribbling notes in the margins of the book, discussing certain paragraphs, and having the author sign each copy, that made me relish having the hardback with me. (Even if I do find his work a bit trite at times.)
In the end, I've opted not to buy this gadget, because ultimately, it's just not as satisfying or lasting as having a book. I have books given to me by my grandparents that they had as teenagers, what do you think the odds are that a Kindle or the formats it supports will last even two decades? I'm going to stick to my dead trees, thank you.
Re:Funny this. (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet, some of us just want to read the books, not treasure them as eternal keepsakes. That's what eBooks are about.
I won't say I don't have books that I treasure because of who gave them to me (Grandma's gift of Mark Twain) but those books are few and far between. I read a -lot- of books, and 12 years ago or ago, I had so many that it wasn't possible to move to a new house without getting rid of some. I moved across the country. Most of my books were sold then, with only a precious few kept.
Had I had eBooks, I'd still have most of the those books instead of the $.50 each I got from them. And yes, I'd probably re-read most of them.
So now I buy eBooks. I can read them whenever I want and they weigh nothing. If I lose them, I can re-download them for free and all I might lose is a bookmark. (Losing a book while reading it would be an odd event, though.)
What I'm trying to say is that you're closing off the idea of eBooks without ever having given them a chance. There will always be things that real books do better, but eBooks have things as well.
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Re:Funny this. (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you realize your entire argument could have been based around a backstage pass, having your boxed CD or Vinyl Record, and being glad that they signed it and vowing to never turn that in for one of those new-fangled iPod thingies with the same basic effect, right?
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Cute. (Score:5, Informative)
Other readers are better (Score:4, Interesting)
iPhone or Android App (Score:5, Insightful)
Will I pay $359 for a dedicated e-book reader? Not likely.
Would I pay $20 for an app on the iPhone or G-phone that would allow me access to the Amazon e-book store. Sure I would.
Even hollywood started to get this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Want to spur consumers to use eBooks?
-Consider DRM-free books with the name embedded. The geeks will get it out, but for the majority of people, they'll buy their own books and not share.
-If you are going to use DRM, make it worth the hassle by making the book much cheaper. In essence, when I buy a DRMed eBook, I'm buying a license that can be revoked at any time to read the text. Why should I pay $18 for an eBook when it's from a $20 hardcover? Especially without distribution or even physical costs.
-If Amazon sold Kindle "codes" in the books to apply the book to your Kindle, you get the pride of owning a book (that can't ever be turned off) and the convenience of a Kindle copy too. And newspapers, if they don't want to go the way of the dodo, should include Kindle access for print subscribers. I get the WSJ and they want me to pay TWICE to get it on a Kindle. Even if I got a Kindle I wouldn't pay twice.
At $360, with a nonremovable battery (thinness is good, but I'd prefer being able to pop in a spare) and expensive (for the format) content, I can't bite. I've wanted to get an eBook reader for years, but this isn't ready yet.
I have one word in mind: (Score:5, Informative)
DRM!
You can't share anything folks. NOTHING. The books are not yours!
Re:I have one word in mind: (Score:4, Interesting)
This was one of my chief complaints when I bought my girlfriend a Kindle for Christmas.
Then I looked into it - you can have up to six Kindles on one account. If I buy one of these for myself, and she buys a book, or I buy a book, we both get it.
Of course, if we split up we have to haggle over who gets Kindle Account Custody, or else see what one another is reading for eternity. :) And for $659 between the two (I paid $300 during the 'Oprah' sale on the Kindle 1 in November), it's still not cheap.
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I'll stick with my iPhone thanks. (Score:5, Interesting)
Is my ereader experience as great as that on a Kindle? I dunno. What I do know is that it's "good enough" for my uses. I just want to read some fiction. I want to kick back and read some Robin Cook or Dean Koontz in the can or at a theater while waiting for the show or whatever. I use Stanza on my iPhone and I downloaded a few collections via torrents and I'm all set for quite a while. Plus I have a phone and an mp3 player and God knows what else I've added to my phone. And like I said earlier, I also have a second Xbox 360 which obviously lets me play games but I wanted a second for streaming movies and tv shows into my bedroom.
Maybe if I had a train ride to work everyday a Kindle would make sense, but even then it's too big to be dropped in my pocket and I'd still have to have my phone with me. Who wants yet another gadget to lug around?
Can it read pdfs yet? (Score:5, Interesting)
Still not good for textbooks (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd get one of these the second it became usable for textbooks/research papers. You need 3 things for that to happen:
1) Native PDF support (which I don't believe this has).
2) Color.
3) A pen for the ability to annotate.
That would be a killer device. This...is not.
Thinking Ipod Touch + Stanza instead. (Score:4, Interesting)
I read a couple of books on a Palm. I don't need a screen this big, so the device is no longer portable.
I am instead considering an ipod touch with stanza. That screen is much better than my old palm and should be plenty good for reading on the go.
The touch is smaller and more versatile to me.
Is there much of a counter argument for people who don't have eyesight issues?
Re:Price point? (Score:5, Funny)
Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer. (Peter da Silva)
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Re:corrrection (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, the new numbers are better, but not so much that one would now find their older version 'useless'. 7 times more than you need is still more than you need.
Books aren't like songs - there's not really a lot to gain by having 1500 with you at all times. I keep ~5 books on mine at any time usually, just because there's not really any motivation to have more. I tend to only read one book at a time or two in parallel.
My main complaint with the gen 1 device is that even though it has a mini USB port, it can't be charged that way with any standard cell phone charger. It has it's own charger and connection, which means one more charger that I have to travel with. I haven't seen anything that says if this has been changed with the updated device.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not going to happen, as I'm definitely not going to buy my books again, just in a different format.
Give me my current bookcollection for free with the device, I already payed for the content and the duplication cost of e-books is zero.
Re:Read-to-me (Score:5, Funny)
Having an e-ink screen and text-to-speech on the same device is an odd match. If you want to read, read. If you want to listen, get an audio book for your mp3 player. Spare yourself the synthetic voice. Unless you enjoy imagining Stephen Hawking is in your car reading to you.
This might good for my copy of "A Brief History of Time"...
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