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Power Hardware

Brand Names Take On Generics In PSU Showdown 223

The Raindog writes "The power supply is perhaps the most overlooked element of a modern PC, and yet it's the one component that can irreparably damage the rest of a system. The market is littered with generic PSUs that are often much cheaper than name-brand alternatives, but can you trust them? The Tech Report aims to find out in its latest power supply round-up, which compares the performance, efficiency, and noise levels of a collection of reputable PSUs with some budget, no-name competition. As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run."
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Brand Names Take On Generics In PSU Showdown

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  • What does HP use??? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 19, 2008 @02:15AM (#26169841)

    I have owned several HP/Compaq machines and NEVER have lost a PSU. And all of the ones I have built myself with parts (Antec) have had a PSU fail multiple times...

  • by setagllib ( 753300 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @02:29AM (#26169907)

    I have had two PSUs fail on me. One was in an expensive Dell workstation and it exploded overnight, leaving a very interesting smell. The other was an Antec provided with a case, and it just stopped working for no reason. I didn't think PSUs could suck so badly, but I've learned my lesson.

  • Re:In other news... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kagura ( 843695 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @02:30AM (#26169917)
    I'm genuinely curious, what parts are different or better in a more expensive PSU? Or is it just a combination of confirmation bias and shelling out too many bucks to say it's not worth it? Not really an accusation, I'm more curious about what parts in a PSU can be "better", considering all the parts are mass manufactured, anyway.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 19, 2008 @02:34AM (#26169929)

    I have literally 6 dead Antec PSUs in my closet, all were refused any sort of replacement, and all have obviously bulging capacitors. Several of them also took out several sticks of RAM, 2 motherboards, and a hard drive, spread across various computers of my own and friends. All of the computers with Antec PSUs (purchased all from newegg.com over ~5 years) eventually stopped turning on reliably, starting making funny squealing noises from the PSU, and/or starting crashing randomly. All of the Antec PSUs have been replaced with Seasonic now, and no computer has has a single hardware problem since its PSU was replaced (and in some cases, other hardware which was replaced at the same time as listed above).

  • by bogaboga ( 793279 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @02:40AM (#26169965)

    ...As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run..."

    To such statements, I say "Ohh puhleeze!" I use generic power supplies for all my PCs, which I never switch off by the way. Apart from increased noise after about 3 years of constant humming, I have no complaints for a product that costs me about 18 dollars.

    I heard Google uses the same stuff too.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 19, 2008 @02:49AM (#26170009)

    Right. Bose is one of the best brands of speakers, and neon lights make your computer go faster. Sorry, but Antec is all marketing and no quality. All the ricer overclockers want to believe that Antec PSUs make their computers +0.2% faster, but the truth is, Antec uses some of the lowest quality parts in their PSUs and if you check something like badcaps.net, you'll realize that Antec is one of the most commonly reported brands in the PSU category, and most widely complained about brand in the forums.

  • by i.of.the.storm ( 907783 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @02:57AM (#26170043) Homepage
    Really? Most reviews of their PSUs have them with pretty good ratings, and their PSUs are pretty power efficient too. I have their EarthWatts 500 PSU and it's really good, my GPU technically requires 550W but it's fine. I've never heard of any bad things about Antec before, the worst ones are the ones from Best Buy et al that have some random company you've never heard of.
  • by Ungulate ( 146381 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @03:09AM (#26170081)
    Except, of course, for the Antec EarthWatts. And the TruePower series. Both of which are... made by Seasonic.
  • Re:In other news... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 19, 2008 @03:14AM (#26170103)

    So if the difference in the price of the capacitors is slight, then where does the large difference in the price of the PSU come from?

  • by linzeal ( 197905 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @03:45AM (#26170235) Journal
    Taking an old 300 watt atx power supply apart to make a variable 0-5v and 0-12v bench power supply for electronics projects will teach you what you will need to know about quality of components if you have a decent DMM, or better a USB scope to see the difference when you switch out caps and other components. An often overlooked problem with cheap power supplies is that bad soldering and cheap PCBs [wikipedia.org] cause the capacitors to work harder to move the same amount of charge. This effects voltage as it relates to capacitance's formula C = Q/V and its integral (dammit give me MathML) sigh read Wikipedia's definition [wikipedia.org]. Doesn't matter how good your caps are if the circuit was soldered by someone being paid slave wages working 14 hour shifts. The real cost of the plenitude of cheap electronics is going to be an interesting story. Besides the obvious horrors of the places of manufacture in Asia and the dumping grounds in Africa where similar autoimmune disorders, cancers and genetic abnormalities are rampant is the story of what happens between those two places. It is not just the disposable aspect that technology plays in our culture that fascinates me but how little knowledge of the design and manufacture of technology is present in the people that purchase it, sell it or even repair it. PC techs without any electronics understanding are the worse, "Who needs an anti-static work area when I can use any flat surface including a pizza box?" and than wonder why they have half a dozen motherboards laying around the house that won't work. /rant If I have the time before Xmas I will post my pics and schematics on my blog. Did it for an EE project. Working on LCDs and circuitry to display voltage and amperage (currently have 4 lobotomized dmm pcb w/ attached backlit lcd doing a reading each.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 19, 2008 @03:55AM (#26170269)

    Where would one get a European version of that?

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @04:05AM (#26170315)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Kupfernigk ( 1190345 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @04:37AM (#26170439)
    There are numerous EU certification bodies, but basically any supply has to be CE marked. From experience with both kinds of approvals, and work on IEC electrical safety committees, I would say that there is nothing to choose between them. But can you actually buy a psu nowadays that is not UL and CE marked?

    I think most problems would be with older equipment made in the days when both the US and the EU countries were trying to make inroads in the Chinese suppliers. For a time the certification bodies seemed to go a little crazy and let the Chinese get away with murder because they all wanted to be the primary Chinese certification body. One of the best incidents I remember was an auditor going around a Chinese plant with ISO 9002 certification. All the documentation was there, all the procedures written up. In English. And no-one in the entire factory spoke English. I doubt this is the case with electricals any more.

  • by Xest ( 935314 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @04:50AM (#26170491)

    I've always bought whatever was cheapest for the wattage I needed and have never had a PSU fail or a PC fail as a result of anything I can really guess was power related (Well, I suppose technically, it's impossible to know but hard drive failures for example when they don't die outright i.e. crashing heads seem unlikely to be power related).

    The only exceptions where I have spent a bit more on a PSU I've found they offered me no notable advantage other than that described (quieter, more cables maybe). Paying more for better featuresets is something you'd expect in most product lines, for example the one I used in my latest machine which I paid a little more for will turn itself back on to let the fans spin and cool down the system once I've already turned it off, this isn't much use unless your PC crashes due to overheating and the system needs to be cooled down quicker, which mine hasn't- so I suppose it just wastes power over letting it just cool naturally after a shut down.

    I'm not really convinced there's any more risk with budget PSUs, I just think you're paying for brand name and features, if you need those features, pay for them, if you don't then budget PSUs don't seem to bring any harm.

    There is only one exception I've seen to this when I was working in tech support where one supplier used PSUs that all failed within about 6months to a year, but this strikes me more as a problem with that individual product line than an inherent product with cheap PSUs- it's not like we haven't seen expensive named brands such as Fujitsu hard drives, Microsoft XBox 360 have their faulty batch product lines too.

    Having worked in support for 7 years in a place where we had over 5000 users and machines from all sorts of suppliers including some from non-big name brands that put together some pretty cheap hardware, and having also built many machines for myself and others over the years I'm convinced if this was an issue then it would be one that was much more prominent. I found things like Maxtor hard drives being the biggest bain back then if anything with a much higher failure rate than any other vendor (ignoring the Fujitsu MPG3 drive line screw up) but then it was telling that they dropped their warranty from 3 to 1 year whilst Seagate and Western digital upped theirs from 3 to 5 years- if anything talks volumes about product confidence that does!

    Have others really seen a higher failure rate in systems with cheaper PSUs as a running trend as opposed to a one off?

  • Re:In other news... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tracy Reed ( 3563 ) <treed@ultraviolet.oMONETrg minus painter> on Friday December 19, 2008 @04:52AM (#26170497) Homepage

    The main things you'll see in a high end PSU:

    1) Voltage stabilizing in case the power coming to the PSU is not very good

    2) Quieter fans

    3) Output voltage/watts and efficiency stay within reason at higher load

    4) Some generic heat up quite a bit.

    Don't forget power factor correction (PFC). Especially in a datacenter.

  • Re:In other news... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by genik76 ( 1193359 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @04:56AM (#26170519)
    Research and development is costly, to find out which components are good. Additionally, each part in the supply chain adds their profit margin to the product, so adding value in the early levels of the supply chain (as in manufacturing) can easily add a significant amount of cost to the end price.
  • by jps25 ( 1286898 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @05:11AM (#26170569)

    Except, of course, for the Antec EarthWatts. And the TruePower series. Both of which are... made by Seasonic.

    Not entirely true.
    The older EarthWatts were made by Seasonic, the newer ones are made by Delta.
    Source: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=110 [jonnyguru.com]

  • I agree with (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 19, 2008 @05:23AM (#26170605)

    I definitely agree with the last part

    "As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run."

    On my last creation I had to change PSU three times because the cheap one failed, the store wasn't too happy when I got in for the third time and asked for a refund. I ended up with a Corsair PSU. It was much quieter and I havent had any PSU related problems ever since.

  • by Alioth ( 221270 ) <no@spam> on Friday December 19, 2008 @05:57AM (#26170749) Journal

    We've had the opposite experience of HP power supplies, we just had to replace 70 HP supplies. When machines started failing in the field, I found that there was massive amounts of ripple on the 12v and 5v lines. When I disassembled the PSU it wasn't hard to tell why - bulging and leaking capacitors.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 19, 2008 @06:33AM (#26170885)

    Uhm. Maybe they're knock-off PSUs just labelled Antec. Seriously, I've never had an issue with antec supplies. I get nesteq or zalman ones now because of quiet-pc-addiction, but never had an issue with antec.

  • by BlackCreek ( 1004083 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @06:36AM (#26170907)
    Ok, I reckon this is in Dutch but this is the only shop I know selling this. I have one, and I love it.

    It will even transfer the measurements to a SD card. It comes with a English text. manual. Continental Europe socket.

    Voltcraft ENERGY LOGGER 3500 [conrad.nl]

    If you search for this stuff in amazon.de you will find one that claims to have ranked 2nd in a German magazine testing of energy measuring devices. This is the new version of the one who got first.

    I have no relation to this shop, or manufacturer, I just love the gadget.

  • by WhatAmIDoingHere ( 742870 ) <sexwithanimals@gmail.com> on Friday December 19, 2008 @06:41AM (#26170935) Homepage
    After you had 2-3 fail why did you buy 3-4 more?
  • by Ed Avis ( 5917 ) <ed@membled.com> on Friday December 19, 2008 @07:09AM (#26171051) Homepage

    It looks like most UPSes make systems *less* reliable on balance. How frequent is a power failure compared to a UPS failure?

  • by GomezAdams ( 679726 ) on Friday December 19, 2008 @07:23AM (#26171123)
    Among other things granted to the Chinese during the Clinton administration was the relaxation of having to meet FCC part 15 subpart B for electronics. Some Chinese power supplies put out tremendous amounts of RF all across the spectrum. Might check that too if you are having problems with radio reception. When I can get them I always buy Taiwan made power supplies because #1 they are better engineered and built, and #2 they do not radiate RF. They have to meet the RF emissions requirements. So far I've had a large failure rate of Chinese power supplies because of being under engineered and the poorly made components. Electronics are like everything else being made in China today. They cut corners and mismanage and put out crap clothes, electronics, baby food, pet food, toys, medicines, and every body just keeps letting them get by with it. Most of my Chinese made shirts don't come with pockets anymore, the thread count of the cloth is lower, the sewing thread is smaller diameter and of poorer quality. The seams are sewn right up against the edges so they rip out in the washing machine and buttons disappear after a few washings too. And if you take medicines ask your pharmacist what the country of origin is. It might surprise the hell out of you. Almost everything I take now (blood pressure and kidney meds) are made in India. That scares the bejesus out of me too but not nearly as much as Chinese made meds.

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