Google To Sell Truly Open Android Dev Phone 219
binary.bang writes "Google has announced an unlocked version of T-Mobile's G1 for sale at the same unlocked price of $399. The Android Dev Phone 1 is the G1, except being truly open: no SIM-lock, no hardware lock. Feel free to flash your customized Android build — the bootloader won't be checking for signatures. Don't be misled by the word 'Dev,' looks like all you need to qualify is an Android Market account. This looks like the Open Handset Alliance delivering the promised Open Handset: yes root, yes flash-your-build, no contract, no strings attached. Anyone else relieved & thrilled?"
Actually it's $ 424 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:FCC (Score:4, Informative)
As you have probably read, it states that these devices are 'not for end users', and therefore should be considered as prototypes.
That means they probably have no certification, although hopefully some of the RF calibration be set.
Effectively this means you are liable for any problems that you cause.
Re:Yes, but! (Score:5, Informative)
T-Mobile has (in my experience) not given two shits what phone I've stuck my SIM in, from my t-mo issued Pearl, to various HTC phones, to an unlocked iPhone, to a junk Nokia. And from what I've been told, AT&T is the same way. Sprint and Verizon are different, but that's at least partly b/c of CDMA (no SIM cards) and Verizon's control urges.
Source for Android on Neo FreeRunner available (Score:5, Informative)
http://git.koolu.org/ [koolu.org]
here's why (Score:5, Informative)
It's possible to compartmentalize things in firmware for that. Everything that radio-wise interacts with the cellular network can be on firmware on a chip, (possibly not an open source chip either) and the phone just tells it how to operate within its fixed parameters.
The "open" nature of the phone doesn't refer to its being open to mods on its cellular networking, but on its functional platform. Things like writing apps for the phone.
Sort of like how I can't write an iPhone app that spoofs my ESN or cranks up my transmit power. The API doesn't have any function calls for that sort of behavior. The firmware on this phone doesn't have to have that either.
We need to get an expert in the thread here that is in the loop on the design of the chips in the cell phones. Based on my experience with other similar electronics, there's usually a handful of chip makers for any given specialty market, and they all make single-solution chips that handle this sort of stuff for you so you don't have to re-develop the same thing that everyone else needs. You just interface with the chip and tell it what you want to do and it takes care of the details for you.
To illustrate this example, I can't write a program on my linux box to write any arbitrary series of 1's and 0's on my hard drive's platter. I have to hand the sata controller a 512 byte block and coordinates, and it writes it for me, including the headers and checksum etc, I have no control over that. That doesn't mean my linux isn't "open". It just means I don't have that level of control over the hardware.
Back in 'the day', on 1980's hardware, I wrote my own disk IO drivers, and COULD write any arbitrary series of 1's and 0's because I had direct access to the read/write latch. And I bet the first cell phones made, the software had a great deal of control over the radio itself too. But these things change, because other parties want to make end-user products and are looking for chips that handle all the dirty work so they don't have to bother with it. Cheaper, more reliable, faster to develop.
The FCC will type-accept anything that operates within their parameters, and is not easily user-modifiable, but it's a slow process, not something you want to have to redo several times a year. For quicker type-acceptance, manufacturers will compartmentalize their designs so that only one small part has to be type-accepted, and then after they have that developed they can play with the rest of the device all they want without getting it re-typed. (the "radio module" is usually what gets typed) All computers nowadays have their bluetooth and 802.11 on a separate card for exactly this reason. Nothing in the software of the computer can cause these separate boards to operate outside their type-acceptance. So the computer manufacturers can make a new motherboard every week without getting the FCC involved again, as long as they keep using the typed wireless boards.
Re:This is pretty cool... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:No 3G on AT&T (Score:1, Informative)
Right. AT&T uses a frequency that no other country in the world does.
No, it's $594 if you are in Europe (Score:5, Informative)
Also, shipping to Spain:
UPS Innovations (Tracking) - $170.14
That small piece of info is shown after you give your credit card details. So the total price if you are in Spain (I assume it's the same everywhere in Europe) is $594. I don't feel like giving UPS half the price of the device, so I'm going to pass. $25 down the drain, though.
Re:Yes, but! (Score:3, Informative)
Anyway, it's a GSM phone. GSM networks don't care which handset you use on them, so long as it's a GSM one. Insert valid SIM card, turn on, it works.
Shipping outside of US (Score:5, Informative)
Re:FCC (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure what the laws are, but there are plenty of technical barriers to messing with the modem.
The radio portion of these devices is NOT like modern WLAN cards or Winmodems where the host O/S controls most functionality - it's like the classic modems/printers where there is a clearly defined interface between the host and the device, and the device has its own firmware/regulatory functions.
In the case of GSM modems, the GSM module itself has a lot of anti-tamper functionality in it, and can only be accessed by predefined interfaces. There's not much hacking you can do.
Note: Some devices do allow you to update the firmware for the modem section, but while many devices allow for unsigned host O/Ses, nearly all devices still require signed radio firmware. See for example the HTC Kaiser (aka TyTn II aka AT&T Tilt) - Removing the host O/S locks were easy and happened quickly, but getting modified radio ROMs (for the purposes of removing SIMlocks) were a whole different story.
Re:No, it's $594 if you are in Europe (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a developer (not an android developer, though), so I'd like to get the unlocked version just in case I feel like doing something eventually.
Anyway, I'm sure these facts: - You need to pay $25 to get all the details
- You need to give your credit card details to Google and some other party
- Only when you do 1) and 2) you learn that you have to pay at least $179 extra for shipping (much more in other countries according to another post)
Is going to be enough to render what was originally a good thing into a piss off for many potential developers.
By the way, you can only order ONE. If at least you could get 10 and share the shipping cost it could be somewhat more of a decent deal.
Re:No 3G on AT&T (Score:2, Informative)
T-Mo isn't much better, I'm fairly certain they do UMTS in the 1700 MHz band, not the 2100 MHz band.
So the G1's 3G won't work in most of the rest of the world either. I do believe a small handful of countries do use the 1700 MHz band but not many.
Frequencies / UMTS Bands? Will it work with AT& (Score:4, Informative)
The only technical data I can find is for the T-Mobile G1, and it uses the oddball UMTS / WCMDA frequency bands specific to T-Mobile. My understanding is that consequently it won't work on any other 3G network on the planet, including AT&T. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Re:No 3G on AT&T (Score:3, Informative)
Oops: I looked again and it seems like the G1 actually does 2100 also, for some reason I thought it was a 1700-only device.
think of the modem chipset as being a phone (Score:5, Informative)
the best way to think of all these smartphones is as a combined phone + laptop on one circuit board, where they're even connected together using USB.
so what these embedded OSes do is quite literally nothing other than send "AT" modem commands (and sometimes a bit more, using escape sequencing) to the on-board modem chipset.
so, unless you start hacking the firmware of the on-board modem, you will still remain within the FCC regulations.
however, some of the cheaper smartphones - in particular the ones based on the TI OMAP series - run a dual-core processor - a TI ARM core plus a TI DSP core - typically a 200mhz one (because lower than 200mhz is utterly useless for smartphone features. but hey, it's cheap).
these phones _are_ a serious risk, because the two CPUs share memory (!) and you can reprogram the registers etc. etc. you can look up exactly how to do it.
anyway, the point is: the radio modem firmware is downloaded _directly_ to the processor, where all of the signal baseband processing is done. things like the GSM signal-strength of the radio can be manipulated DIRECTLY by changing a memory location, using the ARM cpu.
or worse.
clearly, this is bad.
however, the design of the more expensive HTC-designed phones - typically involves a _much_ better setup - with "standard" 400 to 600mhz ARM cpus and a completely isolated "standard" chipset.
the price of the G1 is indicative that it is one of these better setups.
if you want more info, here's where you're going to get it - from the xda-developers and the #htc-linux irc channel on freenode.net. DO NOT waste the developers time on #htc-linux - they are NOT paid to work on the reverse-engineering of HTC phones, but have stuck diligently to the task for over four years, nearly five now, to bring _proper_ community-driven support for linux to these hand-held smartphones.
forum on G1 dev:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448 [xda-developers.com]
page listing android devices:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Android_devices [xda-developers.com]
as people do reverse-engineering and/or find out other information (such as take the backs off and photograph the chipsets) you'll find the info listed, there.
Re:Yes, but! (Score:3, Informative)
I know people that work for the handset testing department at Tmo. To answer the points on this thread:
"It's a security risk to our network." Is a weak excuse Verizon uses to charge people insane amounts of money for data services.
The staggering number of iPhone users on the T-Mobile network is a testament to how much they don't give a shit what you unlocked to use their service.
The firmware separation others are talking about speculatively is not speculative. Typically, these handsets are controlled entirely through AT commands on a serial-like datachannel. The AT commands might let you keep the power at the maximum legal limit when the cell has asked you to turn it down, but it's your battery-power to waste, if the cell is asking you to turn it down it's because it was already loud and clear.
"You could just change the IMEI." Yes, you can change your IMEI, but this isn't a Cloak of Invisibility. If you caused a technical problem large enough for the nodeb techs to notice they can pull all the call records for anyone in a call, on that cell, during the time of the trouble. After 3 or 4 such queries, your number will be the only one that was in all of them. They'll call you, let you know your phone is broken, and probably offer you a free handset upgrade when they ask you to stop using it. If this repeats, they'll deactivate your SIM. This may sound overbearing of them, but it's worth noting that by the time you've gotten this kind of attention you have stomped on many dozen's other people's calls, and you are, in fact, the dickwad in this situation.
As to the phone. All HTC phones are "value oriented." Nokia makes several $800 phones with iPhone quality, and a price tag Tmo's customer base would not bear. That said, I have never seen a pocket video player that plays as well as the iPhone. The things to consider when buying a G1:
I carry both an iPhone and a G1. I fully adapted to the iPhone keyboard for the 8 months that it was my primary phone. It doesn't hold a candle to the easy double-thumb typing of the G1.
The G1 GPS is weak (the iPhone 3G isn't much better).
The 3G data transfers go much faster if you take your left hand off the phone (the antenna is in the top in the portrait orientation).
I have 3 8Gig microSD cards, they were all plug and play, and any music I buy from the Amazon service appears on them in a tidy directory structure without a hint of DRM. I can literally plug them into my computer, drag and drop them into my music tree, refresh the playlist and listen. They will be mine long after my Mac has been donated to some needy kid in another country.
Connectbot is the best ssh client on any phone, and the lowered latencies of 3G make it quite workable to ssh into a system you are maintaining, get a clustat, and fail over systems that aren't working, all while your salted caramel signature hot chocolate is being freshly steamed at Starbucks.
Re:Frequencies / UMTS Bands? Will it work with AT& (Score:2, Informative)
According to the spec it supports a couple of 3G frequencies where 2100MHz is the frequency most commonly used by most operators in europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands [wikipedia.org]
Re:No, it's $594 if you are in Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Re:here's why (Score:5, Informative)
You're basically right. The control of the RF portion of the design is what the FCC is interested in and they want you to demonstrate that it would be very difficult (nothing is impossible) to change RF operation.
Typically the control is hard-coded in a MAC-like device which runs the phone. Things like channel selection and power output would be hard coded in the sense that even if you had access to the registers which set them, you would not be able to set them to illegal values. However, even setting them to legal values could be a problem, as you could create a jammer, so there has to be a layer there which is responsible for the low-level protocol to talk to the cell site and conduct operation of the physical layer - you can forget about having access to that. So you can't tell the phone to start transmitting on a particular channel, but you can tell it to initiate a phone call.
However you can always get after things with a soldering iron if you are so inclined. Doing that would not be illegal, but causing the phone to operate in a manner in which it is not intended, e.g. as a jammer, would be (duh).
The latest chip sets integrate the RF _and_ the baseband control _and_ the MAC, so even with a soldering iron, you'd have a tough time getting at low-level RF control.
Re:FCC (Score:3, Informative)
Why are you still using POP?
Also, grab K-9 Mail. It's a fork of the default mail application with a lot of 'fixes'. I'm not a fan of his new 'small font' crap, but hopefully that will become an option shortly.
Re:No, it's $594 if you are in Europe (Score:1, Informative)
$170.14 includes duty and VAT.
Re:FCC (Score:3, Informative)
I haven't used a BlackBerry, so I can't compare to that. However, I use to own an iPhone, so I can compare against the software available there early on. The iPhone had no cut and paste, no ability to download files, but the POP client worked OK. There was also no app store, only a 4-function calculator, and no dial-by-voice. In comparison to the iPhone trajectory, Android looks quite good to me.
Re:Frequencies / UMTS Bands? Will it work with AT& (Score:3, Informative)
I hope the Dev 1 specs are different, but I doubt it. This leaves many of us out.
Earlier HTC phones supported quad band EDGE and tri band UMTS (W-CDMA). Quad band Edge seems to be sticking around (to allow people to talk everywhere),but UMTS has suffered (The number of bands has grown a bit quickly, we are at 5).
The UMTS bands in question are:
* Band I (2100) in Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania (ITU Region 1) and Brazil (part of ITU Region 2)
* Band II (W-CDMA 1900) in North America and South America (ITU Region 2)
* Band IV (W-CDMA 1700 or Advanced Wireless Services) in the United States (T-Mobile USA)
* Band VIII (W-CDMA 900) in Europe, Asia, Oceania (ITU Region 1 and ITU Region 3), Australia
* Band V (W-CDMA 850) in Australia, Brazil, Canada, the USA, other parts of South America, parts of Asia (ITU Region 2 and ITU Region 3)
For AT&T Wireless we need II(1900) and V(850).
T-Mobile in the US uses IV(1700), and Europe uses I(2100) and now VIII(900).
HTC seems to be ignoring II(1900) and V(850) except on AT&T branded phones (Touch Pro compared to AT&T Fuze which has quad band UMTS, all but IV(1700)).
There are some people trying to get Andriod running on the TyTN II, but the G1 is a nicer piece of hardware.
Re:FCC (Score:3, Informative)
Had you read my comment, you would have seen my reference to K9, and what i thought about it. you also would have seen that I had issues with IMAP as well.
Any more helpful advice?
Re:FCC (Score:1, Informative)
Only if your phone has that particular chipset, though. Even then, there's probably subtle variations between the GSM chips used in different models.
Re:No, it's $594 if you are in Europe (Score:4, Informative)
Re:i heard about this yesterday (Score:2, Informative)
The free only thing is temporary. Once they flip the switch to allow developers to charge, the developer will get 70% of the revenue and Google will keep the other 30% as a listing fee.
This is very similar to Apple's app store, where I believe the developer gets 70% as well, but the other 30% might be carved up slightly differently inside of Apple. As the developer, who cares, you're still getting 70% of whatever you charge.
Re:No, it's $594 if you are in Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Except that they're warehoused in the US. And shipping fees around Europe are astronomical (borders and unions everywhere). And VAT is added to the base cost of an item in Europe, whereas in the US our sales tax is added after the cost of the item. Heck, with Spain's 20% duties and 16% VAT, you can quickly reach that 40% threshold.
If you've ever tried to get an Italian suit in the US, you'll see that cross-global commerce is expensive. You think those 40 dollar pants sell for 40 dollars in Thailand? Every transition adds quite a bit of cost. Try buying genuinely Parisian clothing in New York City sometime and then come crying about how Europeans are being ripped off left and right. That's just the nature of having something sold in the US shipped to Europe.
For the second time in about 30 years we have a descent phone first. It won't happen again for a while, I'm sure.