Recovering Moldy Electronics? 512
cookiej writes "We just completed having our basement gutted and our house decontaminated from mold. The finished basement is gone, my office floor has been removed as well as 24' of drywall around the base of the room. So, we had a full home theater downstairs along with a couple of computers in the electronics closet that were completely immersed (rainwater, not sewage). We moved them to a sheltered area outside and covered them with a plastic tarp. Since the electronics were off when the water hit them, 1) do I have a chance of recovering them? 2) If so, is there a way to clean them with some sort of liquid bath that would not damage the electronics? and 3) I don't want to bring moldy pieces back in the clean house. How could I decontaminate the electronics themselves, pre-bath? Not looking to save the speakers, just the amp, DirecTV box, video switch, etc. Thanks for any help, here, Slashdot." Read on for more details of this reader's plight.
Early last month, we had about 10" of rain in the course of two hours. Many houses in our neighborhood were damaged. We had rainwater coming in our back door and cascading down the basement steps. We have two sump pumps that weren't keeping up (and of course, no battery backup) and as the water rose in the basement, it was getting dangerously close to the breaker panel. So I made the hard decision to shut down the main power and we got the hell out.
The water reached about 6' in the basement before it drained out. Once we got back, we could not move fast enough to get all the debris out before mold set in and boy did it.
Since we are not in a flood plain, our insurance for this is woefully inadequate. While I would love to just go out and buy replacements, there are far more pressing things to re-buy (washer/dryer, furnace, water heater, etc.) and if there is a chance I can salvage some of this it might be a nice change of luck.
I did (Score:1, Interesting)
I was able to recover all data from the hard drives of a machine that was fully immersed in muddy flood water for 12-18 hours. The hardware was trash, nothing can be done about fans and power supplies as far as I can tell. However I was able to open up the hard disks, carefully dry them out with a hair dryer on low, and get them spinning again to recover the data. They did not spin for very long, as rust sets in pretty quickly, but it was long enough.
The saving grace was that the HDDs have tiny airholes with filters on them, thus allowing only clean water through. Had any amount of dirt gotten into the drives, I suspect they would have been ruined as well.
i done this before (Score:3, Interesting)
My water damage recovery (Score:4, Interesting)
I moved from Ca to Co once. In winter.
In a storm.
In the back of a truck.
Get the idea?
LOADS of electronics got wet. Some took, literally, years to get working again.
The BIGGEST thing you can do to save your stuff is this: GET IT DRIED THE FUCK OUT. Water is corrosive to the copper in the products you have (besides the electromechanical problems, like bearings in hard drives (old ones), etc), and if left to do it's thing, electrolysis will eat them up.
I ended up having the entire back of my truck filled with the style cartons you find at 7-11 or something similiar. Split top, about 12 to 18 inches deep. My tarp had a rip in it, unbeknownst to me, and when I stopped, THEY FILLED WITH WATER.
The next day, I made my destination, and the day after that, I got the screwdriver out. EVERYTHING was cleaned off with a rag internally, and I ended up losing about 10 percent of the devices.
Don't power them up until you KNOW everything is dry.
Any transformers, if your really worried about (read, if they are HEAVY and expensive), can be desoldered and heated in your home oven, on it's lowest setting (they can take > 150 degrees easily). That will bake out any moisture.
Ditto for some really high power transistors. One trick we used in making REALLY high power CB radio amplifiers was to bake the transistors for about 2 hours. This removed ANY moisture under the caps of the 2879s (part number 2SC2879). This netted us about 2 to 3 more volts on the collectors. After talking to engineers, we found that even a LITTLE bit of moisture in there, will turn to steam after the devices reach their internal operating temp. Higher voltage on the collector = higher temperatures (more dissipation). Baking them got us 2 to 3 more volts and that equalled a few hundred more watts (for every 50 percent increase in supply voltage, your Pout doubles) (think, 24 to 64 transistors being combined).
Simple green or even lysol does well for mold inhibition. You can also do a 5 % bleach solution, but then you run the risk of losing color, faceplates, some plastics, etc.
Hope it helps.
--Toll_Free
Re:dunking electroncis whole is a bad idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Heh. The good news was that our HT setup is a Front-projection and the projector was on the ceiling. The lens cap that hangs down had a thin line across the top third, indicating how close the water came to ruining it. And that one I don't think would have survived. Those bulbs are quite sensitive.
The screen was home-built for around $80 in parts, so I can re-create that. But the whole "down to the studs" thing is
Re:Maybe... (Score:5, Interesting)
>
Finally, where do you live? 10" of rain turns into 6' of water in a basement when you don't live in a flood plain? Why would anyone build a basement in an area subject to such problems? (I live in an area without basements, both because of shrink-swell soil and high water tables.)
Well, it was the worst rain in 135 years. So the phrase "subject to" is... well, quite subjective.
A lot of pessimists around here! (Score:5, Interesting)
Many years ago I worked in the service department of an electronics OEM repairing stuff returned from the field. The OEM built two-way radios. One time we were sent a portable radio that had been recovered from the sea-bed having been dropped from an oil-rig in the North Sea six months previously. The unit had a die-cast zinc/aluminium chassis and case and standard double-sided PCBs with mostly discrete components and a few ICs. It was extremely corroded, covered in salty deposits, and naturally didn't work. I was written off immediately but as a 17yo with time on his hands I took it as a challenge. I cleaned up the unit by passing it through the tanks of hot trichloroethylene that were used for cleaning newly assembled boards. This removed most of the surface corrosion on the PCBs and chassis. An open-framed rotary switch for channel selection was replaced as it was too far gone.I ran the boards through the normal service/setup procedure. The receiver came up no problem with basic retuning. The transmitter was dead but only needed a new final stage transistor and a retune. It passed spec. It was returned to the customer along with a new replacement unit. They were astonished and very pleased with the customer service received beyond the call of duty or expectation. Whether it was connected I don't know but they placed a huge order with us several months afterwards...
The kit here was immersed in fresh water for much less time. While component densities are much higher in modern kit, I think there's a good chance it will work after careful cleaning and drying. Worth a shot anyway - what have you got to lose?
Re:Non-moving parts should be OK (Score:5, Interesting)
Interestingly enough, one of the computers that got dunked was an old Apple Cube I used to monitor my UPS and other various cron jobs. It as no fans, so we'll see. The bad news is that it may have been powered when the water hit it. It was at the bottom of the rack and the water was at about 3' when I killed the power.
The real test will be the PS3. It was at the top of the rack and probably was barely under. Amazingly, my network gear and the UPS that powers it were all at a height of about 6'4". And never were touched.
Lessons from New Orleans (Score:2, Interesting)
First, open the devices up as much as you can, and get them in a climate controlled room. If you have a dehumidifier use it to suck every drop of moisture out of the air and dry the electronics to the bone.
The next step is to blow out as much garbage as possible with compressed air or use a static free vacuum (for electronics) if you can.
After that your odds are somewhere around 50/50. Getting the parts bone dry is the key.
We had some nasty computers power up, even some that were 100% under. The drives stayed sealed, their was no power, and no chemicals ate up the boards. Now the case was all rusty, but we popped out the drive and it spun up on a test machine to do a data dump. Once we had the data we went for it and the old pc powered up! It happened alot, but after about three weeks the rust and corrosion was so bad it just was not possible anymore. good luck
Dehumidifier. (Score:3, Interesting)
Not sure how much this will help, but:
Run a dehumidifier or two non-stop until the air humidity is under 40%. You will likely draw several gallons of water from the air itself, and hopefully dry out the electronics. It will also make the basement liveable in short order.
Good luck, whatever you try.
Re:There is hope (Score:4, Interesting)
Come on slashdotters, this is grade eight science!
Sunlight Kills Mould (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Maybe... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, we are at a somewhat low point in the area, but also right next to a storm sewer. We haven't had water before this so I was quite surprised to see the water forcing itself through the bottom and sides of our back door.
Our storm sewer has been known to get clogged and start to back up toward our house. But I usually just go out, clear the sewer with a rake and that's the end of it.
Actually, I *DID* exactly that earlier in the morning of that day. Wife threw up the alarm that the water was starting to pool, so I went out, cleared the sewer... watched it all drain in, no pool... and went back in and started breakfast. Before breakfast was over, I heard something strange and thought one of our gutters was overflowing. Only to find the newest waterfall down to the basement.
Ethylene glycol bath (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm not sure that I'm RECOMMENDING this, but it's something I've done in the past.
A friend and I, after a bout of drinking, decided to test the theory that ethylene glycol could serve as an effective liquid coolant for a computer motherboard. To this end we filled a plastic tub with the stuff (a.k.a. "antifreeze") and pulled the board from an old HP 486 desktop. We powered it on, grasped it with some wooden tongs, and lowered the board into the antifreeze path.
Well, it turns out that a mobo will NOT function while submerged in antifreeze. Disappointed, we took the board to the bathroom and blasted it off in the shower. We shook the water out, then gave it a good 15 minute session with a hair dryer. A few more drinks were consumed, and we decided to try powering it back up. To our surprise it POSTed and started up just fine.
One very noticable side effect of this treatment was that the board, which was previously grimy, gritty, and covered in dust bunnies, looked new like the day it was manufactured.
Now, I don't know if it was the ethylene glycol or the shower that cleaned the board so well, but I guess I have to say this: a quick dunk in antifreeze followed by a few quality moments in the shower with your rubber ducky might do the trick.
Re:There is hope (Score:5, Interesting)
No! Bleach BAD. Bleach will oxidize all the metals, including the ones you thought couldn't rust!
I have washed boards in the dishwasher before (no soap!) but that was for spilled liquids. With the presence of mold, you have a different problem.
First, remove any batteries on the board (coin batteries are common,) as they create a sparking hazard. Use pure isopropyl alcohol (not the 66% stuff) which will mix with remaining water and should help you both clean up and kill the mold. I'd start working over an empty pan, and pour alcohol over it as I cleaned it. Brush everything possible with a natural fiber brush (not a plastic bristled brush that may dissolve.) Get under components with a pipe cleaner. And no smoking around the alcohol, of course! When it's done, drain it. If you have access to it, thoroughly blow it dry with dried compressed air (air from an ordinary shop compressor will contain water and/or oil.)
Once the visible alcohol is gone, you'll still need to dry the board. It will take time, warmth, and air movement. An oven at the "keep warm" setting (no more than 170 degrees) shouldn't damage the plastics, but not while it's still evaporating alcohol fumes. A fan and some incandescent light bulbs (desk lamps up close) would probably do just as good. Warm sunshine is very good, too (and helps kill mold) but the humidity outside is usually pretty variable, so you wouldn't want it to remain outside in the evening to collect dew.
However, be prepared for disappointment. If there are electrolytic capacitors on your board, there's a good chance they were already destroyed by the water. They are not typically sealed to ward off immersion in liquids.
Re:There is hope (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm just chiming in here.
A few people mentioned bleach being bad. Yes, it is.
My step son died in our home, in his bathroom Natural causes, don't be gruesome please. As much as I don't like saying it, there was a smell left behind. The coroner's office couldn't give us any advice. When people die, they leave behind a smell pretty quick. For them, they change clothes on the way out of work and don't take them home.
We tried a variety of things to clean the bathroom. After trying so many solutions, I decided to spray the entire room down with 50/50 bleach and water mix. It helped to get rid of some of the smell, but on most of the metals it touched, it corroded them almost immediately. Things like sink fixtures, outlet screws, door knobs. Think, anything metal that may be in an otherwise emptied bathroom (towels, floor mats, and even the shower curtain had already been removed).
So, yes, bleach is bad.
I've repaired some electronics that have had exposure to some liquids. Usually rubbing alcohol works well. It'll dissolve nasty things like dried soda and some corrosion. I usually use a Q-tip to do the actual cleaning. It can be rather bad on it's own too, so it's a very manual process of cleaning, rather than what the original poster seemed to want (dump it all in, bring it all out, and turn it on). Depending on how nasty it got, you could spend an hour just cleaning out the insides of a single remote control.
Any (ANY) power will lead to corrosion. Most people think the A/C power, but laptop batteries, and even the BIOS battery or other onboard batteries will cause corrosion too.
My wife left one of our cordless phones out where the sprinklers hit. Our water is filtered very well. She didn't realize it until the next day. The corrosion from the phone battery pretty much destroyed it. I managed to clean up a lot of the corrosion as outlined above, but not enough to make it work right again. I told her about the battery and corrosion. Our baby dropped the other cordless phone in the toilet. She fished it out within a minute and pulled the battery out. I just left it to sit in the sun for the rest of the day and it worked fine after that. The same quality water, and the toilet was probably worse exposure, and just removing power from it saved it.
Unfortunately, my advice for the original poster is, suck it up and replace anything that you can't get going again fairly quickly. You'll spend a lot of effort on nothing otherwise. Remember that basement theaters are cool, but not when there's a potential for flooding, which can happen anywhere.
Re:There is hope (Score:2, Interesting)
Put the electronics in a sealed "plastic bag" (larger items of course will need some creativity on exactly how to do it). Moisture will form inside the bag if the components are still wet. Take them out and let them air for a few more days. Repeat this until they are absolutely dry.
Sporaclean anti mold enzyme (Score:3, Interesting)
This probably won't ever get read, but you are seriously in need of Sporaclean http://www.killmoldfast.com/ [killmoldfast.com]. It's an insanely good product. You should get this stuff, dilute it and coat the room, and everything in it.
Re:There is hope (Score:3, Interesting)
I know you were trying to be funny, but some dryers do have a removable shoe rack that doesn't rotate. Electronics could be placed on that while the dryer blows the hot air around.
Re:There is hope (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:There is hope (Score:3, Interesting)
Vinyl phonograph albums DO mold (this happened to a friend's collection after their roof got partly knocked off -- they were almost at ground zero for the Northridge quake). They can be cleaned with soap and bleach, but may not be playable again, depending on how "soft" the mold made the vinyl.
I was given some SCSI cards, RAM sticks, and I/O cables that had cig smoke, mold, and gods know what else stuck to them. I washed them with dish soap and pet-urine deodorizer. They still work.