Build a Cheap Media-Reading PC? 255
tsm_sf writes "A recent Slashdot article got me thinking about dead and dying media. I'd like to build a cheap PC with the goal of being able to read as many old formats as possible. Size and power consumption would be design considerations; priority of media formats would be primary. How would you approach such a project?"
Big long SCSI bus (Score:5, Informative)
Or, several of them.
Archive format of the future:
http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/ [twibright.com]
first post (Score:1, Informative)
Well. Media reading. As in read any fileformats? or Read any physical formats as well, down to the good old 5.25" floppies.
Any small linux machine could do this. If you dont need the physical ports, check out a fit-pc(google).
Linux has dosbox which is the best dos emulator (with sound) that I have seen, and it has viewers for every media format I encountered so far.
USB adapters (Score:5, Informative)
What's wrong with getting a commodity PC, a couple of USB hubs and as many adapters as you can lay your hands on? Most every connection I can think of has a USB adapter for it..
Get busy with eBay (Score:5, Informative)
Get yourself a big tower case and one of each of these: 5.25" floppydrive, Zip-drive, Travan tape-reader, Creative tape-drive, DAT tapedrive, single speed cd-rom (for these *really* pesky cd's), dvd+/-RW. And a 77-in-1 flashmemory readers.
Then, make sure you have a parallel port, a serial port and a game port (there is actually backup media that connects to the game port, what where they thinking).
After the hardware, start with software: DOS, Win'98se, Win2000, WinXP at least. Then Linux (drivers for almost any filing system) and, i kid you not, FreeBSD (very good drivers for obscure hardware, especially backup hardware).
That's a start, at least.
Ports, ports, and more ports. (Score:5, Informative)
You probably want a motherboard wit as many PCI slots as possible. Depending on your needs, you might even need to find a motherboard that has one of those rogue ISA slots. I'd browse around ebay and geeks.com to look for such gnarly old hardware. If you could find a motherboard that had
A quick google found this:
Gigabyte Ga-6Vtxea
Gigabyte Ga-6Vtxea ; Via 694T , On-Board Ac97 Audio , Ata100 ; 3X 168Pin Dimm, 5X Pci, 1X Isa, 1X Agp, 1 X Amr
That would be right up your alley. It probably has serial ports as well. Wow, it's pretty: image [hibit.it]
They don't make them like that anymore.
From there, get one PCI card with USB support, get a/multiple usb hubs... grab some parallel and/or serial to usb adaptors.
Don't forget to track down a scsi card for one of the pci slots, among other random interface cards.
Wrong end of the stick (Score:5, Informative)
Usually to read old media, you wouldn't start by building a PC. The first thing is the hardware that works with the media, for example a reel to reel tape drive, 8, 5 1/4 or 3 1/2 inch floppy drive, tape drive for old cartridge tape formats etc. Then you look at the interface needed to work that old hardware, then you look at what computer you need to host that interface, then an operating system, then the tools needed to get to and make sense of the data.
Luckily the OS part is pretty easy. Linux has support for all sorts of weird and wonderful interfaces right out of the box. It's also usually packaged with all manner of powerful tools good for getting data off old media.
It's getting old hardware to actually work that'll challenge you.
Prepare for damaged media (Score:4, Informative)
Expect all old media to contain lots of errors, and expect media readers to die. I would focus on migrating from old media to hard-disk based storage since old floppys, tapes and CDs have a limited lifespan. I would also have multiple readers for the same format since a CD that doesn't work in one reader might work in another.
I personally would go for a bigtower with multiple 5.25" and 3.5" floppy readers, CD-rom reader, a memory card reader, dvd/blueray and HD-DVD reader and 2 x 1 TB Harddrives in mirror raid to ensure that no migrated data is lost.
Some media might be unreadable my modern OS:s. Equip the machine with enough memory to run virtual machines which are given direct access to the media readers. If you need DOS to read a diskette, boot the DOS vm.
Super-8, 4-track and 8-track (Score:3, Informative)
Re:existing pc (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway I don't think this guy is going to be very successful building a computer that can read everything. Some tapes need a controller that must be plugged into an ISA slot, for example.
Power (Score:5, Informative)
As has been mentioned before, a lot of older readers are IDE devices, and so, can easily be converted to USB. (Note that for IDE, the device must be plugged in and powered when the system boots, otherwise it won't be recognized.)
After converting to USB, splice in relays - on the device power cable and the USB +5V cable (to prevent the device from half-powering-up via USB power). Connect the relay control to the appropriate voltage via a pushbutton switch which you can mount on the front of your computer (can sacrifice a drive bay for a panel of switches).
This will let you turn each device on and off as you want.
CATWEASEL! (Score:5, Informative)
Catweasel (Score:5, Informative)
A good start is to get a Catweasel floppy controller [wikipedia.org]. If you connect a 3", a 3.5", a 5.25" and a 8" floppy drive to it you will be able to read almost any floppy disk there is, including C64, Amiga, CP/M, CPC, Mac, Apple II, Famicom and so on.
Then comes the bigger problem: Finding the tools to extract files from their filesystems. There are small extraction/conversion tools on the net for almost every format there is, collecting dust on long forgotten areas of FTP servers. Some of them require some slight modifications to compile on post-80s UNIX and some only run in MSDOS with full hardware access, but with some patience, DOSBox [sf.net], Google and imgtool from MESS [mess.org] you should be able to work with most of them.
Then finally comes the biggest problem: Finding applications that can work with the actual files...
Re:Prepare for damaged media (Score:5, Informative)
and 2 x 1 TB Harddrives in mirror raid to ensure that no migrated data is lost.
The triumph of optimism over experience, it seems. Allow me to rephrase the above to something more meaningful:
Re:Super-8, 4-track and 8-track (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Noqcu3O7ojg [youtube.com]
Re:Wangtek? (Score:4, Informative)
Wang-tek? No, i really don't want to know what sort of interface cards they make!
https://www.deltaperipheral.com/sales/index.php?manufacturers_id=27 [deltaperipheral.com]
Wangtek is a company, they made tape drives. IIRC their 5150ES was the one I was thinking about, 150meg not 120. I'm sure at some point I upgraded to 350meg or 525meg but still used the supply of 60/150meg tapes. They may have also made scsi controllers for the tape drives.
As you might imagine, since it was primary storage, I wanted the fastest one available. Wangteks were pretty quick and were often offered on PCs with a qic02/qic36 isa controller and some minimal software.
Re:existing pc (Score:3, Informative)
Hey! I could store 1/6 of an xvid movie on that.
It was 150megs, not 120 as I remembered. You have a point by today's standards it was pretty small, but by early to mid 1990 standards that's equal to 104 floppy disks. The tapes were about $10 each, or $1.00 if you were lucky. 6.6c/meg wasn't really a bad deal. There is linux support for many of these drives, good solid support but that doesn't help you out as they were often shipped with those funky arse ISA controllers and dos software. Before 2000 the respective companies maintained BBSes with free public downloads. Handy! But they used the y2k scare to ditch BBS support. I'm sure you "might" be able to access the drive in linux, but I highly doubt respective companies were consistent with their software.
Re:USB adapters (Score:3, Informative)
Do you really think people are joining slashdot when they're 11? (2008-1995 - ~2 years of this account). I'm not even close to 13.
Ignoring the fact that GP is wrong - I happen to own both a USB floppy drive and a USB Zip drive (via adapter), why would my age necessarily invalidate my point? There _ARE_ USB adapters for pretty much everything, 5.25" floppies can be hacked using the guts of a 3.5" floppy drive (same connections), and short of using 2 computers (one legacy and one modern), that's pretty much the best way to do it. As previously pointed out, you can get adapters for most everything, so if it was available in an external format back when you were merely quite old, it'll be available by daisy-chaining adapters now.
Re:USB adapters (Score:2, Informative)
True but you can get adapter circuitry that makes them look like SCSI devices. Or are they the other way round?
I truthfully doubt that you are going to be able to find a one-machine solution. You will not have enough ISA and PCI slots
IRQs will be a problem. PCI is too modern to be an issue. There aren't any interfaces that are only available in PCI format except USB. You'll want a machine with as few PCI and as many ISA slots as possible. I can't imagine there's any hardware that's OS/2 only. Very little that's Windows 3.1 only as well. Windows 95 had pretty good backward compatibility in this respect.
A bigger problem will older, non-PC formats. Early macs had variable speed drives. Amigas had a custom disk format that PC drives can't read. The BBC experimented with a laserdisc based format. Some early CD ROM experiments used bizarre formats that could be decoded but would need some data format information, or at least a crib.
Re:Get busy with eBay (Score:3, Informative)
Don't get a single-speed CD drive. The lasers on those are woefully underpowered, and can't read rewritable or recordable discs properly. You can generally use software [cdspeed2000.com] to slow down the CD read speed if you need to. I know it's an option in the BIOS of my T61, too.
Re:Consider Macs... (Score:2, Informative)
Nothing wrong with PC drives. It was the standard PC floppy controller that was short on IQ.
Get a CatWeasel, and you can read pretty much any 3.5" / 5 1/4" disk format there is.
Re:Catweasel (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wangtek? (Score:3, Informative)
Though your post was informative, the sound you heard as you were typing it was the joke of the parent post doing mach 4 over your head.
Not at all. Everyone knows the issue with Wangtek and Wang. Wang made some decent servers, but as with all servers they needed some downtime.
"I need look at your Wang"
"Your Wang is down"
"Your Wang is up"
"Your Wang is making a funny noise"
"I need to remove your Wang"
No, we've heard it all before.