A Brief History of Features Apple Has Killed 461
Technologizer writes "Some folks are outraged over the lack of FireWire in the new MacBook released this week. But Apple wouldn't be Apple if it didn't move faster than any other computer company to kill technologies that may be past their prime. And history usually validates its decisions. We've posted a decade's worth of examples that prove the point."
dumb much? (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:audio recording (Score:5, Insightful)
It's all what you put out (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:audio recording (Score:5, Insightful)
Something besides the MacBook that doesn't have the Firewire port?
Not really (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:dumb much? (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly right. It's called technology lock-in, and it often (at least to me) seems pretty arbitrary (the classic examples being modern clocks going clockwise rather than counter-clockwise, and the QWERTY keyboard). "History validating Apple's decisions" of killing technology is rather a weak anthropic principle, rather than any explanatory answer.
firewire not past prime (Score:5, Insightful)
There is also a matter of not putting gratuitous features on the machine just to meet the buzz word compliance features. For example, many people complain that the Airport has no firewire port, and I am one of those because some of my kit is firewire only. But given the wireless transfer speeds, 54 Mbits/second, why put a 400 Mbit/sec on it. Sure, if one is using GHz ethernet, it would be nice a FW800 interface, but how many of us do this. And this is the case, perhaps an network aware hard drive is a better solution, which I see are not very expensive.
What is true is that Apple does not waste resources support tech that no longer serves a broad purpose. This means that many of us have closets full of old tech. What this also means is that we don't have to worry about installing drivers every time we put in a USB drive, most cameras work with the standard picture protocol, and if we are willing to pay for the machine, we have external hardware that communicates at fast speeds, built in.
Maybe Apple should kill the 1-button mouse (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously ... it's time for it go!
Re:Outrage! (Score:4, Insightful)
it's not even the same thing. Firewire provides much faster transfer speeds than USB 2.0--3200 Mbps versus 400 Mbps. 8" floppies were phased out because of the technologically superior 5.25" floppies. and those were subsequently replaced by the 3.5" floppies.
i'm not saying that all computers need a Firewire port, because that's obviously not the case. but having used Firewire compared to USB to transfer large amounts of data, i don't think Firewire should be dismissed so easily.
i'm guessing Firewire has lost out to USB because it's more expensive to implement, whether due to licensing fees or inherent hardware costs, but i would hate to see such a useful technology be killed off just because USB 2.0 is "good enough" for the average user. Firewire makes a huge difference when you're working with audio/video editing, or working with lots of hi-def images or other large files. i would not have thought that Apple would discard a technology that is so vital to their traditional customer base.
Nothing better than Firewire (Score:5, Insightful)
Even USB was faster than parallel ports, and RS232, and DVI was better than RGB.
But FireWire was better than SCSI, and nothing touches it yet. The reason that it is a problem that it was gone, is that there is a significant portion of the MacBook population that used FireWire. It will still be used by the higher end macs, but paying 800-1000 for a port is insane. So the choice is to keep using outdated macs, pay TOO much for a port, or go windows.
This is not just an outdated, or soon to be outdated port. This is used, and it is replaced by nothing, and what remains is worse.
This is just a bad idea.
Cheap and 'good enough' beats expensive and better (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry guys, I know FireWire is faster and cooler than USB 2 (no sarcasm there) and has neat features like the easy peer to peer connection, but USB won the market. Cheap and 'pretty good enough' beats out better and more expensive almost every time. Given that Apple has to put USB on any laptop (leaving that off would really be a disaster), adding FireWire as well just adds to their expense and complexity.
We had this discussion, what, 5 years ago about SCSI? Yeah, IDE/SATA won that one too.
You could argue that the Mac's growing market share itself argues against this, but to me that's just due to sufficient numbers of people thinking Vista isn't 'pretty good enough'. I know some of you love it dearly, but to most people FireWire just doesn't matter. Apple's eventually gonna ditch it, so they've started weaning you off it now.
Re:RS232 is dead? (Score:2, Insightful)
Sssshhh.
It's written by an Apple fan.
If you make them think, their heads might explode from cognitive dissonance.
One button mice are fine! It's simpler, and you still have all the functionality if you just hold down the option key!
The next day...
OMG! Did you hear? TWO-BUTTON MICE!
Re:Outrage! (Score:5, Insightful)
This seems like a fairly blatant attempt to enforce separation between the macbook and the pro. Now that both are practically identical in build quality and the difference in GPU performance is merely large rather than absolutely enormous, they need a differentiating factor. Firewire seems to have been chosen. I suspect that Apple knows what they are doing, Apple zealots are zealous, most of them will suck it up and pay, and they can use their top of the line construction to sell macbooks to switcher college students. It sure isn't a nice thing to do, though.
Re:I'm sure they have $50... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not only that, but Apple created FireWire and tried to shove it down everyone's throats. Now they say you don't need it, that's just bullshit. Apple does what they want with hardware, and all the Mac fanbois just bend over and take it. If you don't need it, then no problem. If you do need it, you're S.O.L. unless you want the more expensive MacBook Pro.
Firewire fails (Score:3, Insightful)
I had to check what a Firewire cable and port look like. Why? Because it's rare. Sure, there are a lot of cameras with a firewire port but USB is just that more prevalent. There isn't a modern computer in the world without a USB port. Seriously, I took this from wikipedia:
"Full support for IEEE 1394a and 1394b is available for Microsoft Windows XP, FreeBSD, Linux[6], Apple Mac OS 8.6 through to Mac OS 9[7], and Mac OS X as well as NetBSD and Haiku. Historically, performance of 1394 devices may have decreased after installing Windows XP Service Pack 2, but were resolved in Hotfix 885222[8] and in SP3. Some FireWire hardware manufacturers also provide custom device drivers which replace the Microsoft OHCI host adapter driver stack, enabling S800-capable devices to run at full 800 Mbit/s transfer rates on older versions of Windows (XP SP2 w/o Hotfix 885222) and Windows Vista. At the time of its release, Microsoft Windows Vista supported only 1394a, with assurances that 1394b support would come in the next service pack.[9] Service Pack 1 for Microsoft Windows Vista has since been released, however the addition of 1394b support is not mentioned anywhere in the release documentation.[10][11][12]"
See? They don't care. Nobody cares. Try that with a USB protocol. There would be total outrage at the fact that there would be no proper USB protocol support.
Now let's look at the back of my computers. Count the number of Firewire ports you see and compare them to USB ports. My computers have 0 or 1 fw ports but they all have 3-5 usb ports on the back alone(not including my usb hub for my golden oldie). Then add some usb in front and you know that it is a widespread standard. And you also must not forget usb sticks and usb external hard drives. The whole world runs on usb(including a usb vacuum cleaner ;) ).
Sure, firewire might be better but it does not matter. Cut the cord and let it die. This year will not be the year of firewire in the desktop.
Heres a few more for the list (Score:2, Insightful)
* Scripting
And basically everything else that would make a mobile internet device useful.
Re:I'm sure they have $50... (Score:1, Insightful)
For the 99.999% of the rest of us who never had a use for it in the first place, this cumulatively saves a lot more than $50.
...until your OS goes corrupt and the Mac doesn't boot. When you take it to (or call) a technician, you'll quickly lose that $50 and more due to the extra effort to get into the Mac to rescue your data. Without Target Disk Mode, the HD has to be removed. Easy (but not trivial, certainly requiring specialized tools and extra time) on the MacBooks, nearly impossible on the MacBook Airs.
And all of this because Apple inexplicably didn't create a "USB Target Disk Mode" to replace the Firewire mode it has taken away.
Re:Cheap and 'good enough' beats expensive and bet (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think you understand.
A lot of us "outraged" at the omission of FW are mad because of the following reasons:
-digital video (My sister was sold on the capability to import movies of her son and make DVDs and send them to our parents overseas. Big deal for home users interested in this.)
-digital audio (I don't know anything about that, so I can't comment, it seems like a big deal.)
-firewire target disk mode (huge deal for those of us supporting friends and family, even bigger for those of us who have to deploy tens of laptops at the same time. We use firewire drives to slap images on them. If you've never done this you probably don't understand the huge time saving.)
-firewire devices (I've invested in a few FW hard drives because of their power through bus capability, portability and speed, now they're all useless for data storage, time machine, etc.)
There are counter arguments too... .. use time machine, or netrestore, or go se a genius instead of friend-tech support
- digital video, all the HD camcorders supposedly come with USB
- digital audio.. whatever, I don't know
-FW TDM
-firewire devices... SOL
I've successfully "switched" over a dozen friends and family to macs, knowing that in a pinch I could boot into FW TDM and recover their data, or that simply buying an inexpensive external FW disk they could have TimeMachine.
But now, I will not suggest a MacBook for anyone that I may need to support. Especially not for work, where we have over 50 MacBooks deployed. Which is unfortunate, because it really is an excellent machine.
Re:Outrage! (Score:5, Insightful)
Please use real math.
The differences you cite would mean 50 gig of data would take approximately 100 more seconds.
15 minutes and a minute and a half are two different things. Just ask your gf next time YOU'RE done having sex :)
--Toll_Free
Re:audio recording (Score:3, Insightful)
Want firewire (or anything else Apple deems not important enough for YOUR price point), GET SOMETHING ELSE, OR GET A NEW HOBBY.
What a great approach: if a company doesn't offer the goods you want, don't DARE give them feedback on how to improve their goods! Just SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH THE SHIT APPLE GIVES YOU!
Thank God most consumers have more sense than you, and try to get companies to sell the products they want.
Problem when a single company OWNS you. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Maybe Apple should kill the 1-button mouse (Score:5, Insightful)
That's actually one of the more annoying things they did.
After using real two-button mice for years, I have a habit of having a finger on each button. With the Mighty Mouse, ok, it's cool that it's a touch sensor, but it means I have to lift my left finger to make it a right button.
Re:Cheap and 'good enough' beats expensive and bet (Score:3, Insightful)
All your stuff no longer works.
Really?
(plugs in Firewire drive, watches it mount)
Phew! It still works!
By the way, while Apple dropped Firewire from the main consumer-level laptop, they kept it on every other machine (the 13" MacBook, all MacBook Pros, the Mac Mini, the iMacs and the tower). It doesn't look like they're dumping Firewire to me.
There's no winning or losing in this standards 'war' - Firewire and USB aren't competing for the same market. There's a fair amount of market overlap, but Firewire is targeted at more professional use and USB is targeted at more ubiquitous, consumer use.
There's room enough for both standards here. I can't see why one standard has to 'win' if sometimes the best tool for the job is the other one.
Re:Outrage! (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't say I miss Firewire. Back in the days when I used to use gtkpod to manage content on my old iPod Mini with my Linux box, I found I had to use firewire for it to be reliable. I suspect the USB on my motherboard was flaky, since I got random disconnects for no reason.
With my newer boxes, I have had no problem with this, and since newer iPods don't support firewire, it isn't useful for me any more.
nVidia SouthBridge (Score:3, Insightful)
It is a matter or an expensive technology being removed because most people do not wish to pay for it.
That may be true but it was nVidia who made the call, not Apple. The 9400M southbridge [nvidia.com] in the Macbook simply doesn't support firewire.
I suspect Apple simply looked at all its CUDA cores and decided that realtime h.264 for the YouTube set was simply more important than firewire. Yeah, they could have done a discrete firewire implementation but then they're adding cost back in, and Apple isn't going to do discrete anything on the MacBook. Had nVidia supported 1394b, the MacBook would have kept it, but that wasn't a make-or-break feature.
We've heard the story Jobs tells himself to rationalize it, but it simply doesn't hold water in the real world (none of my friends have HD camcorders, though I don't live in Silicon Valley). I suspect Jobs knows the real deal, but they had to make trade-offs, and this was one.
Re:paranoia (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Outrage! (Score:3, Insightful)
I know there is no security without physical security
indeed, and I for one, enjoy having zero cpu usage in high bandwidth transfers
hardware i/o controllers may enable dma dumping of ram, but it wasn't exactly put in hardware for no reason you know, it is a superior solution in so far as getting the job done with minimal external resources
Re:Outrage! (Score:5, Insightful)
Steve Jobs and Apple engineers should go to some music studios, movie studios and see why those people demand 12" or 13" laptops.
Let me give a clue to "cheap bastard buy a macbook pro 15" zealots and apologisers. The sound system they plug to firewire port of G4 is way more higher priced than your "pro" laptop.
They actually use the portable at work, to produce something, not to show off at local cafe and the one thing you can't find in studios is SPACE. They are the first ones to move to LCD (sound guys) even while technology and refresh rates were awful.