notdagreatbrain writes "Maximum PC dug up some new information about USB 3.0, got their hands on the new connectors, and even took a look inside the new cables. They learned several new details about the next-gen version of the ubiquitous interface. USB Superspeed will be backward compatible with USB 2.0. The maximum speed of the new spec is 4.8Gbps, which is ten times faster than hi-speed. Five new wires are bundled in the cable, four of them used for data transfer (bi-directional transfer is now supported). More power will also be funneled through the line, so you can charge more devices, faster. The wireless USB is also getting upgraded to version 1.1, and will include ultra-wide band frequency support and Near Field Communication for near-instant swipe-based syncing."
Some bears are Catholic, but most are Lutheran, owing less to doctrinal agreement than to a species-wide appreciation for large padded pews and good lutefisk.
Yes this is great but have any controls along the lines of "trusted computing" been slipped in to these devices. I ask only because it seems to be the fashion now days to try to put as many controls into new technology as possible.
Yes this is great but have any controls along the lines of "trusted computing" been slipped in to these devices. I ask only because it seems to be the fashion now days to try to put as many controls into new technology as possible.
Why don't you write to the bodies involved with the development and ask them? If we as consumers don't display our wariness, then why shouldn't the engineers put the "controls" in?
I go the easier route. I just don't buy them. Plus slashdot has so many engineers reading it that they're more likely to see it than if I email some companies customer care department.
Really? I'd like to see you NOT buy then new 512GB Disk On Key when it comes out in three years because it uses the USB 3 spec, which may or may not contain content controls.
Seriously, stop relying on the engineers to come to you, and start writing to them. The same thing goes for Linux software support: if you want Solidworks to run on Linux, then write to the company and tell them that!
I've seen too many people destroy USB 1 and 2 connectors by repeatedly wiggling the plug out of the sockets to the point where the sockets no longer hold the connector anymore. Now, USB 3 is going to be even deeper, providing even more leverage to ruin the socket with.
Tip: you can repair the USB 1 and 2 socktet by opening the case, placing a thin, flat object on the OUTSIDE on the socket, and giving the object a light tap. Just enough to bend it slightly inward again. Master this skill before USB 3 becomes mainstream.
This could be fixed if they simply specified the minimum mechanical strength of the sockets and plugs.
A lot of USB cables and devices have connectors you can bend with finger pressure. That's Ok for things like printers that are unplugged once in a blue moon, but it's not good for things like cameras that are frequently connected and disconnected.
When I play a game that uses my SOCOM headset, I have to plug it in otherwise ALL audio routes through it. In order to save wear & tear on the USB port on my case, I just use one of those 7-inch USB extension cables. If I wear that out, no big deal.
Just wish Windows would let ME turn off & on the headset in software.
I've seen too many people destroy USB 1 and 2 connectors by repeatedly wiggling the plug out of the sockets to the point where the sockets no longer hold the connector anymore
IMO it's because the standard specifies a crappy connector with almost no redeeming values mechanically, other than being easy to plug/unplug. They're practically guaranteed to work themselves loose unless the connection is absolutely left alone. There really needs to be some kind of easy, cheap locking mechanism on par with the
RJ-* is great for "plug it in and leave it alone" situations, which it was designed for. However, it is terrible for connections that must be made and broken on a regular basis, which is what USB was designed for. In particular, the plastic locking mechanism is very fragile and prone to snapping off. I'd say that I've seen that more often than even loose USB sockets.
For my desktop I always make a habit of using usb ports on a PCI card for devices that I plug in & out often so that when the connectors become damages I can cheaply & easily replace the card.
Did an Intel marketing manager get the name superspeed from his or her 4 year-old? Couple that with Core i7 and you've got. . . pretty crappy names. I guess Intel's naming schemes have historically stunk (mostly). Here are my suggestions for USB 4, 5 and 6:
USB Superduperspeed USB Ubersuperduper USB Ubersuperdupercalifragalisticexpialdocious
It will still be slower for sustained transfers than Firewire 400.
The most important part, did they finally make it non CPU intensive?
I also really want to know what they are targeting with it. as Portable storage has esata which will kick it's butt, and USB2.0 is fine for everything else except video, and we have that standardized on firewire.
They're targeting everyone with USB 2.0 ports now. People with laptops (which is becoming the largest segment of computer users) have USB ports. If they can buy their next external drive as USB 3.0, they can plug it into the computer they currently have, and when they upgrade to a new laptop with USB 3.0, they'll have an instant speed boost. The power-saving nature of 3.0 will also make it attractive to laptop manufacturers looking to boost battery time. Also, once USB 3.0 controllers end up in the majo
The most important part, did they finally make it non CPU intensive?
Yes. It is interrupt driven rather than polled. Polling was one of the lamest decisions the original USB designers made. For those who don't know the difference, interrupt driven is similar to a phone ringing to get your attention. If it were a polling device, you'd have to pull it out of your pocket every few seconds to see if anyone was calling.
It IS funny how things are changing so fast. I got out of the Navy to find modular phone jacks had become widespread in just four years. "What are these new fangled things?" Heck, I was used to opening up the "borrowed" ATT phone to silence the mechanical bell so ATT couldn't tell you had an extension in the house by calling and seeing how much power was drawn, and now you could get your own phones?
It is also funny to watch movies around the time cell phones started to become available but were not yet c
Yes I have and Firewire and eSATA work fantastically, eSATA kicking everything butt hard in speed.
so again, what are they targeting USB3.0 for? eSata will be the standard by the time they get around to releasing it. I even have a eSata port on my laptop and it's a year old!
Actually HDTV camcorders dont have Firewire. HDV camcorders do.
real HDTV camcorders have too much bandwidth to use firewire 400 for transfer and record to a medium that can be read in the computer (Redone uses an array of CF cards, pro cameras use a different system)
The HDV camcorders record low grade Mpeg4 in the same bandwidth that a DV SDTV camcorder uses. It's by loose definition HD by resolution, but the artifacting and quality is so low it's only good for home use.
I use a Canon HD-G1 $5800 "HD" camcorder.. It's not HD by my definition even though it records 1440X1080i. (1/2 HD is what ALL of them record except for the jvc HD7... yes I have one of those as well)
Uncompressed 720p only needs 79MB/s to transfer. FireWire 400 can get close to 50MB/s in real-world use, so it's certainly possible to stream lossless 720p over FireWire 400. FireWire 800 is fast enough for uncompressed video at this resolution.
I've only used SD cameras, but they tend to use a variant of MJPEG, so each frame is losslessly compressed but there is no interframe compression. Using something like MJPEG-2000, you can easily stream 1080p over FireWire 800.
From TFA: Also, new Mass Storage Device drivers will have to be developed for Windows to take advantage of the spec.
Either Mac, Linux, Solaris, the BSDs and Symbian already support USB 3.0, or somebody at MaximumPC needs to pull their head out from under Ballmer's ballsack.
It's for when you want to get something off your pen drive and don't want to bother plugging it in! Or when someone standing beside you wants to get something off your pen drive without bothering to plug it in!
To make money for the vendor who controls the specification and owns key patents?
Seriously, Wireless USB seems to be pretty much a direct competitor to Bluetooth. It is faster than the current generation of Bluetooth but no faster than the next version of Bluetooth as planned. I get the impression it is intended to be simpler than Bluetooth. Bluetooth as service discovery and connection security features that are practical stumbling blocks for average users. Aside from weaknesses in its protocols, the
iNTEL (wimedia [wikipedia.org]) submarined the xStremeSpectrum/Freescale UWB, which was better tech, just so they could own the patents on all the pipes. That, even though Freescale offered theirs royalty-free.
Now, iNTEL insists on pushing their non-standard UWB into the USB spec.
USB is one of those "We spec our tech conservatively. Our specs are 100% better than you will obtain." technologies. Wireless USB will spill your data into the ether and USB 3, while bursting to n-gigabit, will barely be able to sustain half a gig continuous with only two devices on the line. And multiple bus controllers is an upgrade, still on the drawing board.
Save your money. If serial SCSI is overkill, and your device is not on a LAN, get Firewire. Buy printers with ethernet connectors.
Use USB for keyboards and mice and maybe scanners, like it was intended in the first place.
If I had a penny for each time I inserted an USB cable incorrectly, reversed it and probably managed to insert it correctly, I'd be able to afford one of those high end Mac notebooks.
Looks like the saga will continue with USB3 as the connectors are designed the same. Why can't the connector be designed in such a way that just inserting *would just work* without having to worry about alignment. Too much to ask?
On the flip side, Tannenbaum would be happy: Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB external drives with USB3 ports hurtling down the highway. Or Ritchie - whoever said that.
what you mean like ethernet, or DVI/HDMI, or svideo, or firewire, or serial, or parallel, or IDE, or sata, or even earthed mains ? Christ, even a simple CD needs to be put in the right way up. Not everything can be practically wired to a "stereo" jack plug, and even if it were practical, how many times will you jam the wrong thing in the wrong socket, sending +5v the wrong way into an expensive bit of kit ? Even nature uses specific "sockets" to ensure the correct usage. Sure you can stick food up your ass, b
S-video is a bad design. Serial and parallel presumably refer to D-type connectors (although both come in DIN and Centronics connectors too). FireWire and D-type connectors can have their orientation easily distinguished by glancing at the connector. So can Ethernet. I can't remember what earthed mains looks like in the USA, but I've never seen someone try to plug in a UK mains cable upside down.
With USB, you can only tell which way up it should go by either inspecting both ends closely, or by trying both ways. It also seems very easy to have a USB connector the right way up but not have it slide in easily, not push too hard because you don't want to damage the socket, and just turn it around and try the other way. USB is the only socket I've ever seen where it's common for people to take 3-4 tries to get it right.
Not everything can be practically wired to a "stereo" jack plug
Stereo audio jacks need a left channel, a right channel, and a return. Some use separate returns for each channel to reduce noise. USB connectors have four wires. There is no reason why you couldn't use a 3.5mm four-wire stereo connector for USB, although you'd probably want to use something slightly bigger so you didn't plug it into an audio jack by mistake. There are large numbers of superior connector designs. Raskin devotes an entire chapter to them in The Humane Interface.
We need an all new standard. It will probably borrow more from Firewire than USB.
One of the things I would like to see in this new standard is fixed addressing. That is, each port has a number, and the fixed address of the device has that number in an address chain. When you connect devices through a hub, you use a longer address chain. This should be allowed up to at least 8 address units long (as many as 7 hubs to reach a device). Devices will still also have a unique device ID so if a device is move
Full speed, high speed, superspeed (Score:5, Insightful)
After USB full speed and USB high speed, we now have USB superspeed. What comes next? Hyperspeed? FTL-speed?
Gotta love the marketing hyperbole...
Re:Full speed, high speed, superspeed (Score:4, Funny)
After USB full speed and USB high speed, we now have USB superspeed. What comes next? Hyperspeed? FTL-speed?
Ridiculous speed.
Parent
Re:Full speed, high speed, superspeed (Score:4, Funny)
Unnecessary speed!
Parent
Re:Full speed, high speed, superspeed (Score:5, Funny)
What? Nobody has said
WARP speed.
This is slashdot, this speed should be a given.
Parent
Re:Full speed, high speed, superspeed (Score:5, Funny)
No no, Ridiculous speed is too slow. We're going... Ludicrous speed!
Parent
Re:Full speed, high speed, superspeed (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Yogurt brand cables (Score:3, Funny)
Don't forget the Yogurt brand cables and other devices.
May the Schwartz be with you!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Then they go the plaid!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB7tc9pVvYg [youtube.com]
(link to Spaceballs clip on YouTube)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
ob Ren Stimpy...
"prepare to surge to sub-light speed!.... en.... gage!!!!!!!!!!!"
space............ madnesssssssss.......
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Lint Speed of course. But we'll need someone extremely scared to go this fast. Maybe each USB 4.0 device will incorporate a clone of Arthur.
I'm just going to wait... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
After that comes "holy shit". I'd love to see that one personally.
Re:I'm just going to wait... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Armored bears are atheists, of course.
What I want to know (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes this is great but have any controls along the lines of "trusted computing" been slipped in to these devices. I ask only because it seems to be the fashion now days to try to put as many controls into new technology as possible.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes this is great but have any controls along the lines of "trusted computing" been slipped in to these devices. I ask only because it seems to be the fashion now days to try to put as many controls into new technology as possible.
Why don't you write to the bodies involved with the development and ask them? If we as consumers don't display our wariness, then why shouldn't the engineers put the "controls" in?
Re:What I want to know (Score:4, Insightful)
I go the easier route. I just don't buy them.
Plus slashdot has so many engineers reading it that they're more likely to see it than if I email some companies customer care department.
Parent
Re:What I want to know (Score:5, Insightful)
I go the easier route. I just don't buy them.
Really? I'd like to see you NOT buy then new 512GB Disk On Key when it comes out in three years because it uses the USB 3 spec, which may or may not contain content controls.
Seriously, stop relying on the engineers to come to you, and start writing to them. The same thing goes for Linux software support: if you want Solidworks to run on Linux, then write to the company and tell them that!
Parent
It's going to break. (Score:5, Informative)
I've seen too many people destroy USB 1 and 2 connectors by repeatedly wiggling the plug out of the sockets to the point where the sockets no longer hold the connector anymore. Now, USB 3 is going to be even deeper, providing even more leverage to ruin the socket with.
Tip: you can repair the USB 1 and 2 socktet by opening the case, placing a thin, flat object on the OUTSIDE on the socket, and giving the object a light tap. Just enough to bend it slightly inward again. Master this skill before USB 3 becomes mainstream.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This could be fixed if they simply specified the minimum mechanical strength of the sockets and plugs.
A lot of USB cables and devices have connectors you can bend with finger pressure. That's Ok for things like printers that are unplugged once in a blue moon, but it's not good for things like cameras that are frequently connected and disconnected.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
When I play a game that uses my SOCOM headset, I have to plug it in otherwise ALL audio routes through it. In order to save wear & tear on the USB port on my case, I just use one of those 7-inch USB extension cables. If I wear that out, no big deal.
Just wish Windows would let ME turn off & on the headset in software.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
IMO it's because the standard specifies a crappy connector with almost no redeeming values mechanically, other than being easy to plug/unplug. They're practically guaranteed to work themselves loose unless the connection is absolutely left alone. There really needs to be some kind of easy, cheap locking mechanism on par with the
Re:It's going to break. (Score:5, Insightful)
RJ-* is great for "plug it in and leave it alone" situations, which it was designed for. However, it is terrible for connections that must be made and broken on a regular basis, which is what USB was designed for. In particular, the plastic locking mechanism is very fragile and prone to snapping off. I'd say that I've seen that more often than even loose USB sockets.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Any ideas for how they could make the sockets more durable?
Require the socket to be made of a thicker gauge of steel.
USB "Superspeed" (Score:3, Funny)
USB Superduperspeed
USB Ubersuperduper
USB Ubersuperdupercalifragalisticexpialdocious
Re:USB "Superspeed" (Score:5, Funny)
Well, they are also bringing back the Turbo button, so who knows.
Parent
and Yet... (Score:5, Interesting)
It will still be slower for sustained transfers than Firewire 400.
The most important part, did they finally make it non CPU intensive?
I also really want to know what they are targeting with it. as Portable storage has esata which will kick it's butt, and USB2.0 is fine for everything else except video, and we have that standardized on firewire.
Re:and Yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
It will still be slower for sustained transfers than Firewire 400.
The most important part, did they finally make it non CPU intensive?
I doubt it. In order to do that, you'd have to move work out of drivers and into silicon, which is quite a bit more expensive.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They're targeting everyone with USB 2.0 ports now. People with laptops (which is becoming the largest segment of computer users) have USB ports. If they can buy their next external drive as USB 3.0, they can plug it into the computer they currently have, and when they upgrade to a new laptop with USB 3.0, they'll have an instant speed boost. The power-saving nature of 3.0 will also make it attractive to laptop manufacturers looking to boost battery time. Also, once USB 3.0 controllers end up in the majo
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The most important part, did they finally make it non CPU intensive?
Yes. It is interrupt driven rather than polled. Polling was one of the lamest decisions the original USB designers made. For those who don't know the difference, interrupt driven is similar to a phone ringing to get your attention. If it were a polling device, you'd have to pull it out of your pocket every few seconds to see if anyone was calling.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It IS funny how things are changing so fast. I got out of the Navy to find modular phone jacks had become widespread in just four years. "What are these new fangled things?" Heck, I was used to opening up the "borrowed" ATT phone to silence the mechanical bell so ATT couldn't tell you had an extension in the house by calling and seeing how much power was drawn, and now you could get your own phones?
It is also funny to watch movies around the time cell phones started to become available but were not yet c
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes I have and Firewire and eSATA work fantastically, eSATA kicking everything butt hard in speed.
so again, what are they targeting USB3.0 for? eSata will be the standard by the time they get around to releasing it. I even have a eSata port on my laptop and it's a year old!
Re:and Yet... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually HDTV camcorders dont have Firewire. HDV camcorders do.
real HDTV camcorders have too much bandwidth to use firewire 400 for transfer and record to a medium that can be read in the computer (Redone uses an array of CF cards, pro cameras use a different system)
The HDV camcorders record low grade Mpeg4 in the same bandwidth that a DV SDTV camcorder uses. It's by loose definition HD by resolution, but the artifacting and quality is so low it's only good for home use.
I use a Canon HD-G1 $5800 "HD" camcorder.. It's not HD by my definition even though it records 1440X1080i. (1/2 HD is what ALL of them record except for the jvc HD7... yes I have one of those as well)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I've only used SD cameras, but they tend to use a variant of MJPEG, so each frame is losslessly compressed but there is no interframe compression. Using something like MJPEG-2000, you can easily stream 1080p over FireWire 800.
Linux and Mac already support USB 3.0? (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA:
Also, new Mass Storage Device drivers will have to be developed for Windows to take advantage of the spec.
Either Mac, Linux, Solaris, the BSDs and Symbian already support USB 3.0, or somebody at MaximumPC needs to pull their head out from under Ballmer's ballsack.
Wireless USB? Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Could someone please explain the point of Wireless USB to me?
I mean we have WiFi (802.11) for the longer range stuff and Bluetooth for close proximity devices...
What niche does Wireless USB fit in that the existing technology doesn't?
Re:Wireless USB? Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
It's for when you want to get something off your pen drive and don't want to bother plugging it in!
Or when someone standing beside you wants to get something off your pen drive without bothering to plug it in!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
To make money for the vendor who controls the specification and owns key patents?
Seriously, Wireless USB seems to be pretty much a direct competitor to Bluetooth. It is faster than the current generation of Bluetooth but no faster than the next version of Bluetooth as planned. I get the impression it is intended to be simpler than Bluetooth. Bluetooth as service discovery and connection security features that are practical stumbling blocks for average users. Aside from weaknesses in its protocols, the
Full speed (Score:4, Funny)
In other news, USB full speed [photoxels.com] will still be 12Mbps.
If you haven't got anything good to say about it, (Score:4, Informative)
iNTEL (wimedia [wikipedia.org]) submarined the xStremeSpectrum/Freescale UWB, which was better tech, just so they could own the patents on all the pipes. That, even though Freescale offered theirs royalty-free.
Now, iNTEL insists on pushing their non-standard UWB into the USB spec.
USB is one of those "We spec our tech conservatively. Our specs are 100% better than you will obtain." technologies. Wireless USB will spill your data into the ether and USB 3, while bursting to n-gigabit, will barely be able to sustain half a gig continuous with only two devices on the line. And multiple bus controllers is an upgrade, still on the drawing board.
Save your money. If serial SCSI is overkill, and your device is not on a LAN, get Firewire. Buy printers with ethernet connectors.
Use USB for keyboards and mice and maybe scanners, like it was intended in the first place.
iNTEL bites.
USB1 and 2 (and now3) = bad connector design (Score:3, Insightful)
If I had a penny for each time I inserted an USB cable incorrectly, reversed it and probably managed to insert it correctly, I'd be able to afford one of those high end Mac notebooks.
Looks like the saga will continue with USB3 as the connectors are designed the same. Why can't the connector be designed in such a way that just inserting *would just work* without having to worry about alignment. Too much to ask?
On the flip side, Tannenbaum would be happy: Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB external drives with USB3 ports hurtling down the highway. Or Ritchie - whoever said that.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Not everything can be practically wired to a "stereo" jack plug, and even if it were practical, how many times will you jam the wrong thing in the wrong socket, sending +5v the wrong way into an expensive bit of kit ?
Even nature uses specific "sockets" to ensure the correct usage. Sure you can stick food up your ass, b
Re:USB1 and 2 (and now3) = bad connector design (Score:5, Interesting)
S-video is a bad design. Serial and parallel presumably refer to D-type connectors (although both come in DIN and Centronics connectors too). FireWire and D-type connectors can have their orientation easily distinguished by glancing at the connector. So can Ethernet. I can't remember what earthed mains looks like in the USA, but I've never seen someone try to plug in a UK mains cable upside down.
With USB, you can only tell which way up it should go by either inspecting both ends closely, or by trying both ways. It also seems very easy to have a USB connector the right way up but not have it slide in easily, not push too hard because you don't want to damage the socket, and just turn it around and try the other way. USB is the only socket I've ever seen where it's common for people to take 3-4 tries to get it right.
Not everything can be practically wired to a "stereo" jack plug
Stereo audio jacks need a left channel, a right channel, and a return. Some use separate returns for each channel to reduce noise. USB connectors have four wires. There is no reason why you couldn't use a 3.5mm four-wire stereo connector for USB, although you'd probably want to use something slightly bigger so you didn't plug it into an audio jack by mistake. There are large numbers of superior connector designs. Raskin devotes an entire chapter to them in The Humane Interface.
Parent
Re:USB1 and 2 (and now3) = bad connector design (Score:5, Insightful)
Which side is up on the slot though?
It can be vertical/horizontal and can oftentimes be out of line of sight when reaching behind PCs, or in the dark under a desk.
Parent
Re:It stands for (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks! Do you happen to have an explanation for that IBM thing that's confounded me all these years?
Parent
Re:It stands for (Score:4, Funny)
lol. but - read the summary: Five new wires are bundled in the cable, four of them used for data transfer (bi-directional transfer is now supported)
So its really a UPB now :)
Parent
Re:It stands for (Score:4, Informative)
Bidirectional != parallel
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Firewire 800 is how old, and is how fast? About 6.25 Gbps?
If only they named Firewire standards in a way that let users tell how fast it was just from the name.
We need an all new standard (Score:3, Interesting)
We need an all new standard. It will probably borrow more from Firewire than USB.
One of the things I would like to see in this new standard is fixed addressing. That is, each port has a number, and the fixed address of the device has that number in an address chain. When you connect devices through a hub, you use a longer address chain. This should be allowed up to at least 8 address units long (as many as 7 hubs to reach a device). Devices will still also have a unique device ID so if a device is move