Smart Parking Spaces In San Francisco 202
2centplain sends along a report in the NYTimes on San Francisco's smart parking initiative. He asks, "Any guesses on the when this will be hacked? Like, 'reserving' an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there, or, perhaps using the wireless mesh network for some other purpose?" Quoting: "This fall, San Francisco will test 6,000 of its 24,000 metered parking spaces in the nation's most ambitious trial of a wireless sensor network that will announce which of the spaces are free at any moment. Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones. They may even be able to pay for parking by cellphone, and add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car."
Great ... make everybody speed to the same spot (Score:5, Insightful)
This scheme will lead to road rage on an unprecedented scale. Every time a spot becomes free there'll be a dozen people making a mad dash for it.
what a quote.... (Score:2, Insightful)
âoeIf the San Francisco experiment works, no one will have to murder anyone over a parking space,â said Donald Shoup, a professor of urban planning at the University of California, Los Angeles, whose work on the pricing of parking spaces and whether more spaces are good for cities has led to a revolution in ideas about relieving congestion." - from TOA
Wow... because you know, we all _have_ to murder people for a parking space now.
That having been said, I've seen the start of something like this in an airport (Portland, IIRC). Parking spots have a light over then that shows green when they are empty and red when they aren't. Very handy to look down an entire row and know it's all full. In this one, you might be able to check for parking in the area when you get close and get over there, all on your phone. An interesting side effect of this is that the parking authority would be able to determine rates of fill and determine if they need to build a parking garage in the area.
I'm sure it can be hacked. I'm also sure there are meter maids who can probably have an automated system to check that stuff, like one that says it's full when they go by and it's clearly not. A quick push of a button and it gets communicated back to parking central authority to fix it. Bear in mind, most folks are not hacking folks, so it's really going to be a small subset that ever need this treatment.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't Solve the Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:2, Insightful)
"Public transportation is cheap, but I prefer to drive so I don't have to be around poor people."
That right there is the number 1 reason people drive rather than take public transit. (There are rationalizations related to scheduling, but that's what it really comes down to.) And that also leaves out another subtext, which is that the "poor people" they are usually thinking of are not white.
By driving, a lot of Americans can practice a bit of out-of-sight, out-of-mind with the people in their society that aren't doing as well as they are. When you travel or live among poor people, your brain has to admit that poor people exist and are mostly decent folks who just want to make a living for themselves and their families. By comparison, if you live in a wealthy white suburb and commute by car, the only poor people you see are those who are working for you (making your lunch, carrying your mail, cleaning your office, etc).
Re:Isn't it illegal to use a cellhone while drivin (Score:5, Insightful)
The tickets they dole out will pay for the new parking system. It's a win-win situation!
Re: being near poor people (Score:5, Insightful)
Now before you complain that I'm an apologist, lemme cite some facts. I took a flight from Washington National airport not too long ago. My plan was to take the bus to the Metro train, which would drop me at the airport. Decent plan, right? After a mile walk to the nearest bus stop, I stood there for 45+ minutes waiting for the bus, which didn't show up. At that point, I had burned my "extra" time budget and was in danger of missing my flight. I jogged home, got in my car, and drove to the airport. I passed the bus some 60 minutes after it was scheduled to make a stop. Why didn't I drive to the Metro and continue from there? Because it was a weekend, and the trains run on a 12-minute schedule. With the bus-delay, I was in danger of missing the plane if I missed the Metro by the perfect amount.
Similarly, I *can* take public transportation to work, but I did the calculations, and the one-way time varies from 3 to 4 hours. That's for a 26-mile commute distance. Public transportation is coordinated at the local level here, so it's a horrible PiTA to switch across five different transport methods to get somewhere - bus, train, bus, different bus, etc. Schedules between municipalities are completely uncoordinated, so it takes maximum time to go anywhere. If you don't value your time, it's a wonderful way to burn through it.
What's that? I should move closer to work? Unfortunately, my office is located in an industrial business park. There isn't a residential area within 5 miles. Further, even if I could make that work, I'd be a huge distance from everything else. The US isn't laid-out for a public transportation infrastructure. It's been pasted on as an afterthought, and it sucks. We'd need to make some horrific changes to install a useful transport network, and I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime.
Mod Parent Up (Score:1, Insightful)
That's very well put. This is a case of technology solving the wrong problem, possibly at the cost of introducing new ones (aggressive behavior, cheating, jamming, system malfunction, etc.) At best it might eliminate very minor inefficiencies associated with some spaces being vacant for 10-15 minutes at a time. The real problem is that there may be 4x as many vehicles as available spaces, so getting rid of those temporary vacancies is a drop in the bucket.
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:2, Insightful)
Poor people exist, but the sane poor people drive a poor car as well.
I don't avoid public transportation because of poor people, but mostly because of dangerous, violent lunatics, who threaten people just because they're bored. Also because of stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around.
I am one person, and I absolutely love to have some dignity. I can not cure all evil in the world and I am oblivious to undereducation and whatever reason there may be that kids and youth these days just behave like wild animals.
That's why I ride by car. Doors locked and concealed-carrying, to be exact.
Compared to being in a cage with several dozen jerks, idiots and other obnoxious humans, even traffic jams are an oasis of pure harmony in the middle of the storm.
Get the public space safe and clean and I will consider riding the public transportation again.
Signed,
A white male sick of paying taxes for people that hate me.
don't make the problem worse for bikes (Score:4, Insightful)
The worst thing they could do is replace the many standard parking meters with just a few kiosks or with square posted meters that are incompatible with bike locks. Then we would have no place to lock up our bikes. It's hard to get the city to come out and install bike parking (plus there are never enough racks) and the privately installed racks are usually useless (they buy racks designed by people who don't ride bikes and/or install them too close to a wall.)
missing the point... (Score:5, Insightful)
add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car.
this is REALLY missing the point of "max 2 hours" limits on meters. they were never meant to be a replacement for all-day parking in a garage. they were meant to be a way to keep commuters and all-day tourists from hogging up a spot all day, keeping locals and casual shoppers (and those visiting municipal facilities or medical offices) from having convenient access.
by allowing someone to just casually "push a button" from where they are and hold the spot another two hours, they effectively have created a new commuter spot and while its nice that the city gets the money, it makes things worse for the locals who actually need access for only an hour or two.
Re:car parks? (Score:3, Insightful)
SF does have underground car parks built as part of large office blocks. But the problem is where there is a mix of residential and business parking. They parking spaces may be free for residents between 6.00pm and 8.00am, but used for business during week days. It isn't practical to demolish a block of residential housing just to build a new car park.
Re: being near poor people (Score:3, Insightful)
i think you also forget to factor in the fact that "transportation" decisions were taken at times when public transport was seen as a filthy communist ideology as opposed to the intrinsic individualist freedom loving automobile.
There are people in the US who routinely drive 50 miles plus each way to their office...
you made the decision for a variety of reasons(nice safe suburbs, better schools, etc.) stop bleating when your chickens come home to roost.
Get out of your cars, or accept that they are part of a luxury lifestyle and earn more money to pay for it.
Does it need to be hacked? (Score:3, Insightful)
Any guesses on the when this will be hacked?
Why do you have to ask this yourself? Can't you live together, respecting eachother and use this cool new tech to live better? As a hacker myself I can understand that the first thing you would like to do is take it apart and understand exactly how it works to make it work in ways it's not supposed to, but "reserving an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there" instead of respectfully reserve it the legal, correct and respectful way is just wrong.
In an ideal place, where people respect eachother that would not be necessary. Maybe SF is not an "ideal place", I don't know, never been there, but you could try to make it become one by not hacking cool stuff like this, and use it the proper way instead.
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:2, Insightful)
Most cars do at least 40MPG with many going above that.
Which gallons though? 40MPG(imperial) is only 33 MPG(US), which isn't that that impressive. There are plenty of US cars that do that as well. It's just that many people in the US didn't see the need up till now, compared to Europe. I would say that's largely due to the very low gasoline taxes in the US.
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow, it's been a generation since you had to worry about crime in the three major mass transit areas in the US (Chicago, NY, Washington DC). During the early to mid 80's you might have had similar concerns but for the last two decades I can honestly say I would ride the trains in any of those cities at 1am with zero worry (perhaps a bit of worry after exiting at certain stops, but no worries while on the train).
I can't speak for the rest of Europe as I don't know it well enough, but that's the situation in the UK: the bus/train is fine, if there's a problem at all it'll be walking home from the stop/station. I'd be interested to know whereabouts in Europe the GP is referring to.
I'm male, I hardly ever feel uneasy on public transport. Women sometimes do (though, they never seem to complain about it, come to think, so I don't think it's a big deal). The usual advice (for anyone) is to travel in a group, have enough money for a taxi in case you lose your group and don't want to travel alone, and if you do then sit near the front on a bus, or in a carriage with other people on a train. Avoid being so drunk you aren't aware of what's going on.
I've never heard of problems for Jewish people like that here either.