2centplain sends along a report in the NYTimes on San Francisco's smart parking initiative. He asks, "Any guesses on the when this will be hacked? Like, 'reserving' an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there, or, perhaps using the wireless mesh network for some other purpose?" Quoting: "This fall, San Francisco will test 6,000 of its 24,000 metered parking spaces in the nation's most ambitious trial of a wireless sensor network that will announce which of the spaces are free at any moment. Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones. They may even be able to pay for parking by cellphone, and add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car."
You mean the internal combustion engine? I doubt it. Europe has been paying even more than the US right now for gas, and they all still drive. If gas goes up too much more, it will become cost effective to make the gas out of other sources. Still plenty of coal left, even neglecting all of the "bio-xxx".
Even then, people would not give up their cars. I live in NYC and don't need a car, but in the 'burbs I sure would have bought an electric and put up with the crappy range rather than give up a car altogethe
On the other hand, over here in Europe out cars get good MPG, so even though we pay more for petrol, we don't pay that much. There's very few 8-15 MPG petrol guzzlers over here.:)
The US market is beginning to more closely resemble the European market:)
I just meant that "parking" and "cars" are not going anywhere anytime soon. And I suspect that the internal combustion engine still has some legs as well.
>The US market is beginning to more closely resemble the European market:)
Really?
I live in the States but I grew up in Europe (lived there 20 something years) and still spend 5 weeks there every year. Most cars do at least 40MPG with many going above that. My father's car goes over 50MPG on the highways... how's the US resembling Europe exactly? Unless by "beginning" you meant the real "beginning" of the car industry... like 1900;-)
What's more interesting is that european car companies and oil com
Europe has been paying even more than the US right now for gas, and they all still drive.
In many parts of Europe, cars are used for long-distance trips to remote places, often with the kids and a tonne of luggage in tow. The use of a car for the daily commute is very uncommon compared to the United States. High prices did spur better investment in public transportation in Europe, while in America low gas prices created a culture where everyone young and old thinks he needs his own car.
A couple of weeks ago, a middle-class Slashdot poster wrote something along the lines of "Public transportation is cheap, but I prefer to drive so I don't have to be around poor people." I couldn't imagine someone here in Helsinki saying that. Everyone rides the metro, buses or trams.
"Public transportation is cheap, but I prefer to drive so I don't have to be around poor people."
That right there is the number 1 reason people drive rather than take public transit. (There are rationalizations related to scheduling, but that's what it really comes down to.) And that also leaves out another subtext, which is that the "poor people" they are usually thinking of are not white.
By driving, a lot of Americans can practice a bit of out-of-sight, out-of-mind with the people in their society that aren't doing as well as they are. When you travel or live among poor people, your brain has to admi
I strongly disagree. Public transportation in the US sucks because it doesn't go where you want to go, when you want to go. It works well for a very limited subset of the population that lives in high-density metro areas; it's useless for any task that leaves these areas.
Now before you complain that I'm an apologist, lemme cite some facts. I took a flight from Washington National airport not too long ago. My plan was to take the bus to the Metro train, which would drop me at the airport. Decent plan, right? After a mile walk to the nearest bus stop, I stood there for 45+ minutes waiting for the bus, which didn't show up. At that point, I had burned my "extra" time budget and was in danger of missing my flight. I jogged home, got in my car, and drove to the airport. I passed the bus some 60 minutes after it was scheduled to make a stop. Why didn't I drive to the Metro and continue from there? Because it was a weekend, and the trains run on a 12-minute schedule. With the bus-delay, I was in danger of missing the plane if I missed the Metro by the perfect amount.
Similarly, I *can* take public transportation to work, but I did the calculations, and the one-way time varies from 3 to 4 hours. That's for a 26-mile commute distance. Public transportation is coordinated at the local level here, so it's a horrible PiTA to switch across five different transport methods to get somewhere - bus, train, bus, different bus, etc. Schedules between municipalities are completely uncoordinated, so it takes maximum time to go anywhere. If you don't value your time, it's a wonderful way to burn through it.
What's that? I should move closer to work? Unfortunately, my office is located in an industrial business park. There isn't a residential area within 5 miles. Further, even if I could make that work, I'd be a huge distance from everything else. The US isn't laid-out for a public transportation infrastructure. It's been pasted on as an afterthought, and it sucks. We'd need to make some horrific changes to install a useful transport network, and I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime.
You're right that public transportation in the US sucks because "it doesn't go where you want to go, when you want to go." You're wrong when you say that the "US isn't laid-out for a public transportation infrastructure."
While it is true that even with a really good system there would be many rural areas in the US that aren't covered, that's not really all that bad. A good transportation system would allow people in rural areas to take their cars to the closest public transit point and let a bus/train/pla
i think you also forget to factor in the fact that "transportation" decisions were taken at times when public transport was seen as a filthy communist ideology as opposed to the intrinsic individualist freedom loving automobile. There are people in the US who routinely drive 50 miles plus each way to their office... you made the decision for a variety of reasons(nice safe suburbs, better schools, etc.) stop bleating when your chickens come home to roost. Get out of your cars, or accept that they are part of a
Poor people exist, but the sane poor people drive a poor car as well.
I don't avoid public transportation because of poor people, but mostly because of dangerous, violent lunatics, who threaten people just because they're bored. Also because of stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around.
I am one person, and I absolutely love to have some dignity. I can not cure all evil in the world and I am oblivious to undereducation and whatever reason there may be that kids
Compared to being in a cage with several dozen jerks, idiots and other obnoxious humans,
In Europe, which was what the comparison was about, you hardly see these people on buses or trains. Almost everyone is "normal". No one would look down on a successfull businessman taking the subway to work either, it's normal to use it (where it exists).
I live in London, if you take a train at peak times you probably won't see many people not wearing suits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbV7CESh6pI [youtube.com] (I know it's busy. We're working on it;-). The road is busy too, and slower.)
Wow, it's been a generation since you had to worry about crime in the three major mass transit areas in the US (Chicago, NY, Washington DC). During the early to mid 80's you might have had similar concerns but for the last two decades I can honestly say I would ride the trains in any of those cities at 1am with zero worry (perhaps a bit of worry after exiting at certain stops, but no worries while on the train).
I can't speak for the rest of Europe as I don't know it well enough, but that's the situation in the UK: the bus/train is fine, if there's a problem at all it'll be walking home from the stop/station. I'd be interested to know whereabouts in Europe the GP is referring to.
I'm male, I hardly ever feel uneasy on public transport. Women sometimes do (though, they never seem to complain about it, come to think, so I don't think it's a big deal). The usual advice (for anyone) is to travel in a group, have enough
"I don't avoid public transportation because of poor people, but mostly because of dangerous, violent lunatics, who threaten people just because they're bored. Also because of stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around."...to realize that you were talking about public transportation. I don't know how, but I missed the first part. Everything after the word because fits nicely with driving as well. You know... road ragers... the lunatics who threaten people just because they are bored (or in a hurry, or mad at their spouse, etc.). Also because of the stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around while they drive.
But the assumption that public transportation is the same everywhere as that one bus ride you took that was full of escapees from the Asylum... that's just stupid man. The public transportation system in Portland Oregon is pretty fantastic. Now, in Vegas, the buses are notoriously late (quite common to see one bus on a route passing another bus on that same route, where they should be separated by minutes if not an hour). In Boston, the only way to get across the city is by using the T. Driving can take you 4 hours or more, while jumping on the Orange line in Malden, changing trains in Downtown crossing, and hopping the Red line to Braintree will take you half an hour total. In fact, if you want to visit Boston and you don't live near it, the best way is to park at the end of one of the T lines, and ride in.
My experience with public transportation in Washington DC, Tallahassee Fl, Las Vegas, Boston MA, Providence RI, Portland Or, Milwaukee Wi, New Orleans La, and Dallas Tx has always been good. I've never been on a bus or train with screaming violent lunatics (of any age). This includes my cross-country bus trips as well as my cross-country train trips. And I've done several of both. So I've got more proof that public transportation is safe and pleasant, than you have proof that it is not. And I don't even feel like I have to carry a gun to secure my trip. But, with car jacking and the like, I guess it's not surprising that you feel the need to drive alone and armed.
You get a full cross section of people on public transport in the UK too - more so on trains than buses. Some of the richest people in the country ride the tube in London as it's the only sane way of getting around.
High prices did spur better investment in public transportation in Europe, while in America low gas prices created a culture where everyone young and old thinks he needs his own car.
Actually, the low cost of personal transportation vehicles created an American suburban landscape where everyone does need his own car. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy which has been covered in more depth than I could ever hope to mine here. The active destruction of many of America's public transportation resources by General
A couple of weeks ago, a middle-class Slashdot poster wrote something along the lines of "Public transportation is cheap, but I prefer to drive so I don't have to be around poor people." I couldn't imagine someone here in Helsinki saying that. Everyone rides the metro, buses or trams.
It's bad. Real bad. In fact, it can sometimes be downright dangerous. When I was attending college waiting for the bus, it was not unusual to see some schizophrenic homeless person going nuts throwing bottles around, cursing
This fall, San Francisco will test 6,000 of its 24,000 metered parking spaces in the nation's most ambitious trial of a wireless sensor network that will announce which of the spaces are free at any moment.
Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones. They may even be able to pay for parking by cellphone, and add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car.
- Wireless sensors? - Street signs? - Portable two-way communication devices? - maps?
That is what I figured. To the people that say they could put tin foil over the sensor and make it think there is a car there: There has been similar technology used in traffic lights for years. A bicycle will not trip the sensor, but a motorcycle or car will. It is a big metal detector, and can be adjusted for sensitivity.
Almost every multi-story parking lot I've been to in Europe has Smart car places. There is a simple reason: extra income for otherwise lost space in weird corners, near posts, etc..
Pfft, we have this system here in Sydney shopping centres. If all the spots are taken, people simply cruise around looking for people leaving, same as always. Fantastic when it is only 80% full or so however.
1. Add reservation option. Mark the spot as yours before you get there. Drive calmly to the spot, as central server knows how far you are from the spot and it won't start charging you for the time it takes you to get there driving at the allowed speed. 2. Add red LEDs to the parking spot markers. Have them light up when the space is reserved. Have them turned off by sending a code from your mobile. 3. Add option to report people taking your reserved spot. Have tow-trucks ready and waiting. Also have option to charge them for "stealing" your reserved parking spot, since you have already paid for it. 4. Profit!
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday July 13 2008, @07:39AM (#24171777)
Paying by phone has been a standard procedure in Budapest, Hungary for the last 4 years. Just send an SMS and there you go, another hour or so, depending on your SMS. Each parking district has its separate phone number, so there's no need for fancy high tech equipment, just a few billboards.
I would like to know more about the kinds of technology they are using. There are tons of interesting issues like the communication technology, security, energy supply,...
Unfortunately, the article does not provide many details so I looked for the web page of the company: http://streetlinenetworks.com/ [streetlinenetworks.com] - However, there isn't much more information to be found there either...
Anyway, it will be exciting to see a real-world wireless sensor network operating on such a large scale!
Japan has something similar to this, albeit with parking lots rather than metered curb spaces, which don't exist to my knowledge. When you enter a dense commercial district, overhead LED signs show a map of the neighbourhood with parking areas colour-coded according to whether there are vacancies or not.
âoeIf the San Francisco experiment works, no one will have to murder anyone over a parking space,â said Donald Shoup, a professor of urban planning at the University of California, Los Angeles, whose work on the pricing of parking spaces and whether more spaces are good for cities has led to a revolution in ideas about relieving congestion." - from TOA
Wow... because you know, we all _have_ to murder people for a parking space now.
That having been said, I've seen the start of something like this in
"if the San Francisco experiment works, no one will have to murder anyone over a parking space," said Donald Shoup, a professor of urban planning at the University of California, Los Angeles, whose work on the pricing of parking spaces and whether more spaces are good for cities has led to a revolution in ideas about relieving congestion." - from TOA
Wow... because you know, we all _have_ to murder people for a parking space now.
Yes, Portland has that technology. There are also signs at the ends of rows indicating how many free spots there are. A sign at the entrance shows how many free spots there are on each floor of the garage.
It really makes short term parking at the airport nicer. You are effectively directed to a spot.
Also...
When crossing the bridges into downtown there are signs showing the number of open spots in each of the city run garages. Slightly helpful in choosing among garages in the general area you are
BWI Airport has the LED system in the short-term garage. Overhead Green/Red indicators let you know if a spot is available, and there's another indicator at the end of the row showing if the row is full or has at least one empty. That was surprisingly useful, and eliminated a bunch of frustration (especially if you're pressed for time.)
The parking garage is a controlled environment. I'm not sure it'd have the same benefit in an open space.
While it sounds cool and all, I don't understand how this is going to solve anything. If people are circling the blocks searching for parking, it's because there are no spots, not because they can't find them. This system doesn't create more parking spaces, it just fuels a feeding frenzy. Right now, if a spot opens up, the only people that know about it are the drivers on that particular street. With this new system, the spot will announce itself to dozens of vehicles in all the surrounding blocks, and there will be a mad dash to get to that spot. It will create traffic congestion. What they need is to tear down a few optimally placed buildings, and put in some multi-storey parking garages.
Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones.
So let me get mind around this, California bans cellphones [sfgate.com] while behind the wheel but will possibly tie this to cellphones or even a confusing screen on your dashboard?
When will the madness end?
The Portland International Airport's short term parking garage has overhead signs that tell you, at each turn, how many empty spaces there are on that row. Then above each spot is a red or green light. You can see the status of every space immediately when you turn on to the row. Very handy.
As far as hacking the sensors goes, we (society) have been using metal detectors to trip traffic lights for years, and an electric eye could check for size. It would require a large metal object to mark the space occupie
The worst thing they could do is replace the many standard parking meters with just a few kiosks or with square posted meters that are incompatible with bike locks. Then we would have no place to lock up our bikes. It's hard to get the city to come out and install bike parking (plus there are never enough racks) and the privately installed racks are usually useless (they buy racks designed by people who don't ride bikes and/or install them too close to a wall.)
Paying with a cell phone? Hell, we can pay by text here... in Winnipeg [wikipedia.org] of all places.
Many US, Canadian and UK cities are served by Verrus [verrus.com] for paying parking in certain parking lots (even on street in some places, but not here) with a cell phone by dialling a number and having an account with them, easily setup online. Here in Winnipeg they also offer pay by text. The only other place they offer that is in the UK. I pay by phone Mon-Fri for parking downtown, and it's super convenient. Saves hauling around
add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car.
this is REALLY missing the point of "max 2 hours" limits on meters. they were never meant to be a replacement for all-day parking in a garage. they were meant to be a way to keep commuters and all-day tourists from hogging up a spot all day, keeping locals and casual shoppers (and those visiting municipal facilities or medical offices) from having convenient access.
by allowing someone to just casually "push a button" from where they are and hold the spot another two hours, they effectively have created a new commuter spot and while its nice that the city gets the money, it makes things worse for the locals who actually need access for only an hour or two.
Why do you have to ask this yourself? Can't you live together, respecting eachother and use this cool new tech to live better? As a hacker myself I can understand that the first thing you would like to do is take it apart and understand exactly how it works to make it work in ways it's not supposed to, but "reserving an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there" instead of respectfully reserve it the legal, correct and respectful way is just wrong. In an ideal place, where people respect eachother that would not be necessary. Maybe SF is not an "ideal place", I don't know, never been there, but you could try to make it become one by not hacking cool stuff like this, and use it the proper way instead.
With parking fee collection becoming more computerized, it makes less and less sense to have a flat rate for an arbitrary amount of time, especially as prices go up. If it were still 25 cents per 15 mins, that wouldn't matter as much, but not only is the price at least $2/hour (downtown where I live), but it's one hour minimum. What if you only want to stop for 5 mins to grab something from a small store? (And you know you'll get a ticket in those 5 mins)
Now $2 isn't a whole lot of money, but implementing
SF does have underground car parks built as part of large office blocks. But the problem is where there is a mix of residential and business parking. They parking spaces may be free for residents between 6.00pm and 8.00am, but used for business during week days. It isn't practical to demolish a block of residential housing just to build a new car park.
I submitted this as a story/journal entry a couple of days ago and I fail to see much potential for anything good to come from this. But, well, it is San Francisco. Let's hurry and get to the spot we know is empty! Let's read a digital device while driving in downtown S.F.! It is more a WTF? than anything from my line of sight.
useless for women (Score:3, Funny)
Possible prank (Score:2)
I assume these sensors detect meatal. So:
1) Bums ...
2) Foil hats
3)
4) Chaos, cofusin and many many LOLZ!
So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:4, Interesting)
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You mean the internal combustion engine? I doubt it. Europe has been paying even more than the US right now for gas, and they all still drive. If gas goes up too much more, it will become cost effective to make the gas out of other sources. Still plenty of coal left, even neglecting all of the "bio-xxx".
Even then, people would not give up their cars. I live in NYC and don't need a car, but in the 'burbs I sure would have bought an electric and put up with the crappy range rather than give up a car altogethe
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand, over here in Europe out cars get good MPG, so even though we pay more for petrol, we don't pay that much. There's very few 8-15 MPG petrol guzzlers over here. :)
Parent
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The US market is beginning to more closely resemble the European market :)
I just meant that "parking" and "cars" are not going anywhere anytime soon. And I suspect that the internal combustion engine still has some legs as well.
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Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, but over in europe, the gallons are bigger...
Parent
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, but over in europe, the gallons are bigger...
I don't know why you've been moderated funny.
1 Imperial gallon = 1.20095042 US gallons [google.co.uk] (only the UK uses gallons AFAIK, and only unofficially)
Parent
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:5, Insightful)
In many parts of Europe, cars are used for long-distance trips to remote places, often with the kids and a tonne of luggage in tow. The use of a car for the daily commute is very uncommon compared to the United States. High prices did spur better investment in public transportation in Europe, while in America low gas prices created a culture where everyone young and old thinks he needs his own car.
A couple of weeks ago, a middle-class Slashdot poster wrote something along the lines of "Public transportation is cheap, but I prefer to drive so I don't have to be around poor people." I couldn't imagine someone here in Helsinki saying that. Everyone rides the metro, buses or trams.
Parent
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"Public transportation is cheap, but I prefer to drive so I don't have to be around poor people."
That right there is the number 1 reason people drive rather than take public transit. (There are rationalizations related to scheduling, but that's what it really comes down to.) And that also leaves out another subtext, which is that the "poor people" they are usually thinking of are not white.
By driving, a lot of Americans can practice a bit of out-of-sight, out-of-mind with the people in their society that aren't doing as well as they are. When you travel or live among poor people, your brain has to admi
Re: being near poor people (Score:5, Insightful)
Now before you complain that I'm an apologist, lemme cite some facts. I took a flight from Washington National airport not too long ago. My plan was to take the bus to the Metro train, which would drop me at the airport. Decent plan, right? After a mile walk to the nearest bus stop, I stood there for 45+ minutes waiting for the bus, which didn't show up. At that point, I had burned my "extra" time budget and was in danger of missing my flight. I jogged home, got in my car, and drove to the airport. I passed the bus some 60 minutes after it was scheduled to make a stop. Why didn't I drive to the Metro and continue from there? Because it was a weekend, and the trains run on a 12-minute schedule. With the bus-delay, I was in danger of missing the plane if I missed the Metro by the perfect amount.
Similarly, I *can* take public transportation to work, but I did the calculations, and the one-way time varies from 3 to 4 hours. That's for a 26-mile commute distance. Public transportation is coordinated at the local level here, so it's a horrible PiTA to switch across five different transport methods to get somewhere - bus, train, bus, different bus, etc. Schedules between municipalities are completely uncoordinated, so it takes maximum time to go anywhere. If you don't value your time, it's a wonderful way to burn through it.
What's that? I should move closer to work? Unfortunately, my office is located in an industrial business park. There isn't a residential area within 5 miles. Further, even if I could make that work, I'd be a huge distance from everything else. The US isn't laid-out for a public transportation infrastructure. It's been pasted on as an afterthought, and it sucks. We'd need to make some horrific changes to install a useful transport network, and I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime.
Parent
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While it is true that even with a really good system there would be many rural areas in the US that aren't covered, that's not really all that bad. A good transportation system would allow people in rural areas to take their cars to the closest public transit point and let a bus/train/pla
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i think you also forget to factor in the fact that "transportation" decisions were taken at times when public transport was seen as a filthy communist ideology as opposed to the intrinsic individualist freedom loving automobile.
There are people in the US who routinely drive 50 miles plus each way to their office...
you made the decision for a variety of reasons(nice safe suburbs, better schools, etc.) stop bleating when your chickens come home to roost.
Get out of your cars, or accept that they are part of a
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Poor people exist, but the sane poor people drive a poor car as well.
I don't avoid public transportation because of poor people, but mostly because of dangerous, violent lunatics, who threaten people just because they're bored. Also because of stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around.
I am one person, and I absolutely love to have some dignity. I can not cure all evil in the world and I am oblivious to undereducation and whatever reason there may be that kids
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Compared to being in a cage with several dozen jerks, idiots and other obnoxious humans,
In Europe, which was what the comparison was about, you hardly see these people on buses or trains. Almost everyone is "normal". No one would look down on a successfull businessman taking the subway to work either, it's normal to use it (where it exists).
I live in London, if you take a train at peak times you probably won't see many people not wearing suits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbV7CESh6pI [youtube.com] (I know it's busy. We're working on it ;-). The road is busy too, and slower.)
Times will change in the US, a
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Wow, it's been a generation since you had to worry about crime in the three major mass transit areas in the US (Chicago, NY, Washington DC). During the early to mid 80's you might have had similar concerns but for the last two decades I can honestly say I would ride the trains in any of those cities at 1am with zero worry (perhaps a bit of worry after exiting at certain stops, but no worries while on the train).
I can't speak for the rest of Europe as I don't know it well enough, but that's the situation in the UK: the bus/train is fine, if there's a problem at all it'll be walking home from the stop/station. I'd be interested to know whereabouts in Europe the GP is referring to.
I'm male, I hardly ever feel uneasy on public transport. Women sometimes do (though, they never seem to complain about it, come to think, so I don't think it's a big deal). The usual advice (for anyone) is to travel in a group, have enough
Re:So long, thanks for all the gas. (Score:4, Informative)
I had to re-read this paragraph...
"I don't avoid public transportation because of poor people, but mostly because of dangerous, violent lunatics, who threaten people just because they're bored. Also because of stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around." ...to realize that you were talking about public transportation. I don't know how, but I missed the first part. Everything after the word because fits nicely with driving as well. You know... road ragers... the lunatics who threaten people just because they are bored (or in a hurry, or mad at their spouse, etc.). Also because of the stupid kids that have nothing better to do than scream and wave their mobile phones around while they drive.
But the assumption that public transportation is the same everywhere as that one bus ride you took that was full of escapees from the Asylum... that's just stupid man. The public transportation system in Portland Oregon is pretty fantastic. Now, in Vegas, the buses are notoriously late (quite common to see one bus on a route passing another bus on that same route, where they should be separated by minutes if not an hour). In Boston, the only way to get across the city is by using the T. Driving can take you 4 hours or more, while jumping on the Orange line in Malden, changing trains in Downtown crossing, and hopping the Red line to Braintree will take you half an hour total. In fact, if you want to visit Boston and you don't live near it, the best way is to park at the end of one of the T lines, and ride in.
My experience with public transportation in Washington DC, Tallahassee Fl, Las Vegas, Boston MA, Providence RI, Portland Or, Milwaukee Wi, New Orleans La, and Dallas Tx has always been good. I've never been on a bus or train with screaming violent lunatics (of any age). This includes my cross-country bus trips as well as my cross-country train trips. And I've done several of both. So I've got more proof that public transportation is safe and pleasant, than you have proof that it is not. And I don't even feel like I have to carry a gun to secure my trip. But, with car jacking and the like, I guess it's not surprising that you feel the need to drive alone and armed.
Parent
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High prices did spur better investment in public transportation in Europe, while in America low gas prices created a culture where everyone young and old thinks he needs his own car.
Actually, the low cost of personal transportation vehicles created an American suburban landscape where everyone does need his own car. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy which has been covered in more depth than I could ever hope to mine here. The active destruction of many of America's public transportation resources by General
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It's bad. Real bad. In fact, it can sometimes be downright dangerous. When I was attending college waiting for the bus, it was not unusual to see some schizophrenic homeless person going nuts throwing bottles around, cursing
Which technology is that? (Score:2)
This fall, San Francisco will test 6,000 of its 24,000 metered parking spaces in the nation's most ambitious trial of a wireless sensor network that will announce which of the spaces are free at any moment.
Drivers will be alerted to empty parking places either by displays on street signs, or by looking at maps on screens of their smartphones. They may even be able to pay for parking by cellphone, and add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car.
- Wireless sensors?
- Street signs?
- Portable two-way communication devices?
- maps?
Parking? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Parking? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Ahh... "smart", not "Smart" (Score:5, Interesting)
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Great ... make everybody speed to the same spot (Score:5, Insightful)
This scheme will lead to road rage on an unprecedented scale. Every time a spot becomes free there'll be a dozen people making a mad dash for it.
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Let me fix that for you... (Score:5, Funny)
1. Add reservation option. Mark the spot as yours before you get there.
Drive calmly to the spot, as central server knows how far you are from the spot and it won't start charging you for the time it takes you to get there driving at the allowed speed.
2. Add red LEDs to the parking spot markers. Have them light up when the space is reserved. Have them turned off by sending a code from your mobile.
3. Add option to report people taking your reserved spot. Have tow-trucks ready and waiting.
Also have option to charge them for "stealing" your reserved parking spot, since you have already paid for it.
4. Profit!
Parent
Pulas (Score:3, Interesting)
Paying by phone has been a standard procedure in Budapest, Hungary for the last 4 years. Just send an SMS and there you go, another hour or so, depending on your SMS. Each parking district has its separate phone number, so there's no need for fancy high tech equipment, just a few billboards.
Only few technical details (Score:3, Interesting)
Unfortunately, the article does not provide many details so I looked for the web page of the company: http://streetlinenetworks.com/ [streetlinenetworks.com] - However, there isn't much more information to be found there either...
Anyway, it will be exciting to see a real-world wireless sensor network operating on such a large scale!
Japan (Score:5, Interesting)
Japan has something similar to this, albeit with parking lots rather than metered curb spaces, which don't exist to my knowledge. When you enter a dense commercial district, overhead LED signs show a map of the neighbourhood with parking areas colour-coded according to whether there are vacancies or not.
what a quote.... (Score:2, Insightful)
âoeIf the San Francisco experiment works, no one will have to murder anyone over a parking space,â said Donald Shoup, a professor of urban planning at the University of California, Los Angeles, whose work on the pricing of parking spaces and whether more spaces are good for cities has led to a revolution in ideas about relieving congestion." - from TOA
Wow... because you know, we all _have_ to murder people for a parking space now.
That having been said, I've seen the start of something like this in
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe they had Hans Reiser as a consultant?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, Portland has that technology. There are also signs at the ends of rows indicating how many free spots there are. A sign at the entrance shows how many free spots there are on each floor of the garage.
It really makes short term parking at the airport nicer. You are effectively directed to a spot.
Also...
When crossing the bridges into downtown there are signs showing the number of open spots in each of the city run garages. Slightly helpful in choosing among garages in the general area you are
Re:BWI Airport too (Score:2)
The parking garage is a controlled environment. I'm not sure it'd have the same benefit in an open space.
Doesn't Solve the Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't it illegal to use a cellhone while driving? (Score:5, Interesting)
So let me get mind around this, California bans cellphones [sfgate.com] while behind the wheel but will possibly tie this to cellphones or even a confusing screen on your dashboard?
When will the madness end?
Re:Isn't it illegal to use a cellhone while drivin (Score:5, Insightful)
The tickets they dole out will pay for the new parking system. It's a win-win situation!
Parent
NPR story: "Help for S.F. Parking Nightmare?" (Score:3, Informative)
PDX Parking Garage (Score:2, Informative)
The Portland International Airport's short term parking garage has overhead signs that tell you, at each turn, how many empty spaces there are on that row. Then above each spot is a red or green light. You can see the status of every space immediately when you turn on to the row. Very handy.
As far as hacking the sensors goes, we (society) have been using metal detectors to trip traffic lights for years, and an electric eye could check for size. It would require a large metal object to mark the space occupie
don't make the problem worse for bikes (Score:4, Insightful)
The worst thing they could do is replace the many standard parking meters with just a few kiosks or with square posted meters that are incompatible with bike locks. Then we would have no place to lock up our bikes. It's hard to get the city to come out and install bike parking (plus there are never enough racks) and the privately installed racks are usually useless (they buy racks designed by people who don't ride bikes and/or install them too close to a wall.)
Most of that already exists... in Winnipeg (Score:2, Informative)
Many US, Canadian and UK cities are served by Verrus [verrus.com] for paying parking in certain parking lots (even on street in some places, but not here) with a cell phone by dialling a number and having an account with them, easily setup online. Here in Winnipeg they also offer pay by text. The only other place they offer that is in the UK. I pay by phone Mon-Fri for parking downtown, and it's super convenient. Saves hauling around
missing the point... (Score:5, Insightful)
add to the parking meter from their phones without returning to the car.
this is REALLY missing the point of "max 2 hours" limits on meters. they were never meant to be a replacement for all-day parking in a garage. they were meant to be a way to keep commuters and all-day tourists from hogging up a spot all day, keeping locals and casual shoppers (and those visiting municipal facilities or medical offices) from having convenient access.
by allowing someone to just casually "push a button" from where they are and hold the spot another two hours, they effectively have created a new commuter spot and while its nice that the city gets the money, it makes things worse for the locals who actually need access for only an hour or two.
Does it need to be hacked? (Score:3, Insightful)
Any guesses on the when this will be hacked?
Why do you have to ask this yourself? Can't you live together, respecting eachother and use this cool new tech to live better? As a hacker myself I can understand that the first thing you would like to do is take it apart and understand exactly how it works to make it work in ways it's not supposed to, but "reserving an empty spot by convincing a sensor that a car is actually parked there" instead of respectfully reserve it the legal, correct and respectful way is just wrong.
In an ideal place, where people respect eachother that would not be necessary. Maybe SF is not an "ideal place", I don't know, never been there, but you could try to make it become one by not hacking cool stuff like this, and use it the proper way instead.
Pay for what you use (Score:2)
With parking fee collection becoming more computerized, it makes less and less sense to have a flat rate for an arbitrary amount of time, especially as prices go up. If it were still 25 cents per 15 mins, that wouldn't matter as much, but not only is the price at least $2/hour (downtown where I live), but it's one hour minimum. What if you only want to stop for 5 mins to grab something from a small store? (And you know you'll get a ticket in those 5 mins)
Now $2 isn't a whole lot of money, but implementing
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
SF does have underground car parks built as part of large office blocks. But the problem is where there is a mix of residential and business parking. They parking spaces may be free for residents between 6.00pm and 8.00am, but used for business during week days. It isn't practical to demolish a block of residential housing just to build a new car park.
Re: (Score:2)