Review of Das Keyboard 713
First of all let me say that it sounds great. There's something really satisfying about the thunderous racket created by a nice tactile keyboard. The buttons move smoothly and lightly. As I type these words I find myself typing very fast. Ironically, I have to turn up my speakers just to listen clearly to the NPR program quietly playing... and this leads me to my first point. There are no volume control keys. So I have to navigate through various menus to put the volume control widget back on my toolbar. I haven't needed it for years, but this keyboard has none of the bloated keys that over populate a modern keyboard. Save for the 2 keys added for windows 95, this is practically the same layout as the first keyboard I called my own in the 80s. The keyboard is also available without any markings on the key- although my keyboard had them.
Then I hear the ping that tells me that I have mail so I apple-tab to go to my Mail program and then... crap. Did I mention that this is a windows keyboard? The alt key and the windows key are obnoxiously transposed, requiring me to rewire my brain to get to the program I need. It's not the end of the world- and of course it only matters if you are using a Mac. But since I switch daily from the laptop keyboard to a desktop keyboard, I suspect that I would slowly go mad as I was never able to reliably remember which key was alt and which key was apple. To say nothing of this meaningless preferences button which does nothing. Of course the OSX preferences panels contain an option to remap these keys, but I'd have to reset it every time I went home. And I just don't like the idea of monkeying around with this sort of thing twice a day.
So I decide that just for now I will use my mouse to navigate from app to app. This makes my heart cry a little bit- I don't much care for my mouse. He sits there lonely, the tool of last resort as I instead opt to use ridiculous keybindings requiring 7 fingers of syncronized chording. It only inflames my carpal tunnel, but I don't have to move my arm. But times of desperation call for us to rise up to the challenges that come before us.
Now Das Keyboard has the USB ports on the right hand side. I've plugged in 2 devices: the first is a little spinner wheel that I use for editing video, and the other is a little RF broadcaster for a wireless Logitech mouse. And like most of you, I'm right handed. So as I fling my mouse around, I find myself constantly bumping into the 2 giant USB plugs that now overlap my mousepad. My old keyboard had the mouse ports at the top and I never had this problem.
The toggle lights are completely invisible unless on, hidden cleanly within the black plastic surface. The num lock key doesn't seem to do anything, although I assume that's a mac thing. And scroll lock... well now seriously, who among us relies on that in any serious way? Maybe I should just remap those keys, along with the windows 'preferences' key to be the volume up, down, and mute key I'm missing.
But it's black. It's sexy. It's loud. It feels good to type on it. Which takes me to the big question: is this really worth shelling out $130 plus shipping for? For me the answer is a no. It feels great to type, but the lack of volume controls, the mac keys, and most of all, the irritating position of the USB ports make it an inferior keyboard in all practical ways except for the simple act of typing. But if you are a left handed windows user, you might feel differently. As for me, I'm going to have to keep searching for my perfect keyboard. This one is close, but it's just not it.
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:5, Informative)
Unicomp sells a 104-key version of the Customizer that's USB-native. I'm typing on one right now. It's /slightly/ more lightly-built than the Lexmark M 3 feet away and my IBM M at home, but it's much better IMO than a standard kb.
Overpriced (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The only thing I want to know... (Score:5, Informative)
You can use that key for other things:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/use-the-windows-key-for-the-start-menu-in-ubuntu-linux/ [howtogeek.com]
if you are so inclined
Re:The only thing I want to know... (Score:5, Informative)
Why don't they sell keyboards without these stupid windows-keys?
Because the windows keys are really, really useful? They give you 3 more keys in easy reach of your thumbs. I dislike the current trend to remove some of them. If yiu want to know how to get the best out of them, try running the following command:
man xmodmap
and if you want to do something handy with the key, try:
man fvwm2
Which reminds me... the reviewer complained about having to do lots of key remapping every day. Is this really the case? With a good system (eg, X) you can keep lists of kemappings in a file and just apply the whole file in one go. You can even bind the command to do that to a menu in any good window manager. That way, you can have as many keyboard types as you wish, for instance wierd laptop internal, external UK and external US.
You don't have to pay that much (Score:5, Informative)
No, it's not a split-key ergonomic keyboard (Score:5, Informative)
So, no, Das Keyboard is NOT the best keyboard ever made. Microsoft's Natural Ergonomic 4000 is still the best IMNSHO.
Dishwasher? (Score:5, Informative)
ATTN: CMDRTACO (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Why hasn't anybody invented... (Score:5, Informative)
It's called the Optimus Keyboard, and it costs eleventy bajillion dollars. But yes, it exists.
Re:Apple Pro Keyboard (Score:5, Informative)
While you can't turn a Mac on with the newer keyboards, you can turn them off. Press CTRL-Eject to bring up the power menu.
Re:Why hasn't anybody invented... (Score:4, Informative)
Calling Shenanigans on this Review (Score:5, Informative)
As a Das Keyboard user that -doesn't- use a Mac, I think it is wonderful. If you're a keyboard enthusiast (which is whom I would have expected to review A KEYBOARD), I highly recommend giving one a shot.
Each key is individually weighted, which gives it a really fresh feeling, and the keys feel light but still click loudly. In my opinion, there's really three top-tier keyboards out there for awesome tactile feedback: the M series keyboard (for people that learned on typewriters, not me), this keyboard and its mechanical switches, and those people out there that refuse to use anything but an SGI keyboard, even though their SGI workstation has been unused for years (some of my coworkers).
This guy just cares about the placement of the Command key (which is settable in the Options anyway), and the "extra" keys. If you're like that, this keyboard is not for you.
Re:Dishwasher? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Dishwasher? (Score:2, Informative)
You can set OS X modifier keys for diff keyboards (Score:2, Informative)
Just take a look at this [macbrilliance.com] screenshot.
I do this with my Saitek Eclipse keyboard and my MacBook Pro, and the setup works pretty well so far. I have Alt remapped to command, and the Windows key remapped to option, so everything is essentially in the same place.
Now for the menu select key on the right side, that causes a slight problem...
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:5, Informative)
The Lenovo M's keep popping up on eBay, factory sealed for ~$30. I have a stockpile in boxes that will puzzle my grandchildren.
Unicomp (old IBM Model M) (Score:4, Informative)
Unicomp still makes the old-fashioned keyboards ... unfortunately, looking at their lists, most of the 101 and 102 key ones are PS2 or AT, not USB. They have a 'linux' model, but from the description I'm not sure if any of them are available as USB:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html [yahoo.net]
(and if you're scared of the springs -- they have quiet keyboards, too)
Re:The only thing I want to know... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:5, Informative)
Agreed. I'm typing this from a Unicomp Customizer right now. It's basically built in the old IBM Model M keyboard factory (the employees bought the division and spun it off into its own company).
The external keyboard casing is thick plastic instead of solid metal, but it's still sturdier than most computer peripherals you'll run across. And as a bonus, mine has a USB interface instead of an AT connector.
I use a Mac, so I actually wanted the Windows keys. However, I didn't want the stupid Microsoft logo on a keyboard for my Mac. For $10 extra Unicomp actually made me two replacement keycaps that say "Command" on them and provided a free blank keycap. I popped off the three Windows keys and replaced these with the new ones, and now it's just perfect.
As with the Das Keyboard, on a Mac the alt and command keys are reversed. You can easily fix this in the System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse settings though. In OS X Leopard, they've even added a per-keyboard mapping option so I don't have to unswap the buttons every time I take my laptop out and use the built-in keyboard.
I've also found that keeping my old Apple keyboard around has been useful, I plug it in during conference calls. Otherwise when I start clicking away on the keys everyone stops and asks what that sound is.
Overall though, this is the best keyboard I've ever owned. It's just fun to type on, and if you're sitting at a computer all day long, that's worth something. The Unicomp keyboard sells for around $70. I'm sure you could get them to send you a set of blank keycaps for a little extra money if having blank keys is important to you.
It's worth noting to that the key action is a little bit different between the Das Keyboard and the Unicomp Customizer. The Unicomp uses the exact same technology found in the legendary IBM Model M keyboards. Das Keyboard uses something else that is also supposed to be very good, but they're not exactly the same thing. I haven't personally tried both so I can't comment either way on that one. I'm sure it probably boils down to personal preference.
I don't work for them or anything like that, I'm just a guy that got tired of replacing keyboards every few months.
For reference, this is the exact keyboard I'm referring to: Unicomp Customizer 104 [yahoo.net]
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:5, Informative)
No kidding. I'm tying this on a 1995/6 Microsoft Natural keyboard. The first natural keyboard. The one that came with a diskette to add functions for the Windows key (which was new at the time). The logo on the bottom says "Windows Compatible". Not Windows XP, or 2000, or NT, or 95. Windows.
I've used this keyboard daily for years and years. It got a break of a few years when I spent most time on a laptop in college (though I'd break it out for long papers due to comfort), but I took it to work (because typing on those standard non-ergonomics keyboards becomes painful quickly) and it's been in constant use for the last two years.
It's big, it's heavy, and it feels great to type on. Only two letters (N and M) are faded, every other one looks as good as the day I bought it. I took it apart a year or so ago to clean it really well (grime and dust from sitting around unused) and it was very well built. It has a large steel or aluminum plate in it to provide support.
Best of all, it has a real inverted T set of arrow keys and a 3x2 set of home/end keys. I hate the way they've changed those on all their models they sell now.
I had one of their internet natural keyboard a few years ago (with all the buttons on top). I didn't really use them, and at this point I'm not even sure where it is.
But my comfortable 1995 keyboard works as well today as the day I bought it. Microsoft can make some really nice hardware at times.
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not about to give up my extra ten words per minute I get on my clicky keyboard just because you don't like the sound.
I don't like it when you listen to voice mail on speakerphone, argue with your spouse over who has to cook dinner that night, suck your teeth to get out the last shreds of the lunch you just ate at your desk, or any of the other annoying audible habits you have.
That's why they make sound cancelling headphones.
Note - I had a co-worker complain about my keyboard. This is the same co-worker who would make the most obnoxious choking sounds that you could hear across the room. Yeah, my keyboard is the most annoying thing going.
Re:No, it's not a split-key ergonomic keyboard (Score:3, Informative)
I bought a pair of MS Natural Ergonomic 4000s to replace my aging MS Natural Multimedia keyboards (which I really like, except for the grime accumulated over years). I'd hoped the 4000 was just a USB version.
The 4000 key action seems noticeably stiffer in general, and the space bar is particularly stiff. I'm pretty disappointed.
-Ed
Re:Dishwasher? (Score:1, Informative)
Yes.
I work for a computer lab at a major college and a close friend told me that it could be done. After years of use out keyboards were disgusting.
What this friend didn't tell me is that even the tiniest amount of soap residue can clog the contacts, that depending on the dishwasher and the keyboards you can melt a bit of plastic and that keyboards take a very, very long time to dry.
None of them survived.
If you want to try it, run the dishwasher once or twice empty, to get the soap out. turn off heated drying and place only as many keyboards as will fit on the top rack, facing down. This is the fastest way to dry them as the keyboards will rust if they're wet for too long. Take special care that the USB or PS2 connectors drain easily as well.
Re:The only thing I want to know... (Score:5, Informative)
On windows, the "winkey" has a number of extremely functional uses exclusively tied to the operating system (rather than applications)
Win + D shows the desktop. Hit it again, and your windows are restored. Not as swanky as Compiz or Expose, but gets the job done.
Win + E opens a file browser
Win + F opens the find file window
Win + L locks the screen
Win + R opens the "run" box
The only thing missing is a built-in shortcut to open a command prompt.
I also find myself using the context menu key quite a lot, as an alternative to mousing. This is especially useful when editing documents, or the like, and you don't know all of the keyboard shortcuts...
104 keyboards are frikkin huge... (Score:5, Informative)
I believe I'll stick with my Happy Hacking Lites... All that extra bulk on the right side of a 104 keyboard has the effect of either pushing the main part of the keyboard to the left (increasing wrist strain) or pushing the mouse further to the right (real fun to reach for it, you know...)
I wouldn't mind having some of those keys back, but only if I could put them on the left. Presently for Blender I use an external USB numeric keypad which I keep to the left of my keyboard... not too shabby.
Re:Dvorak? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:5, Informative)
And a wife armed with a glass of Pespi. *grumble*
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:3, Informative)
Cheap keyboards (Score:3, Informative)
Funny, I just did an annual clean of mine and it's just like new again. I've got an old logitech internet navigator keyboard that cost about $35, five years ago when I bought it.
My friends laugh at me for doing something so ridiculous. They say, "Why not just go buy a new one?" when the hair and the crumbs and whatever else makes it look nasty. It took me about an hour, but the way I see it, I saved at least $35, plus I don't have to buy a keyboard that's going to require some retarded drivers, and have to get used to a whole new feeling keyboard.
You can swap modifier keys (Score:3, Informative)
on Mac OS X. Go to System Preferences, then Keyboard & Mouse, and click on the "Modifier Keys" button. You can then swap any around -- I set caps lock to be control, but you can also change the Alt and Command keys. So if the keyboard has them swapped, you can swap them in software, and be happy.
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:5, Informative)
On a side note, it's funny that there have been no Mac trolls so far :)
That's because Mac users smart enough to buy a Das Keyboard are also smart enough to find the setting in System Preferences that lets you swap the Command and Option keys so that it behaves as expected. In Leopard, this can even be done device-by-device, thus alleviating CmdrTaco's problem.
Using ControllerMate [orderedbytes.com], I was even able to add volume keys and an Eject button (used the PrtScr, Scroll Lock, and Pause buttons for volume.)
I love my Das Keyboard II.
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:3, Informative)
Unicomp sells a 104-key version of the Customizer that's USB-native. I'm typing on one right now. It's /slightly/ more lightly-built than the Lexmark M 3 feet away and my IBM M at home, but it's much better IMO than a standard kb.
Yes, I have one too. I bought it after I ruined my original Model M by spilling tea on it, and I have to concede that real Model M was better, quality-wise -- in particular, the C key on this board gets stuck in some little plastic detail when depressed from the wrong angle, and it doesn't have removable key caps.
Nevertheless, it is still incomprehensibly much better than any run-of-the-mill rubber dome rubbish, and it sells for lot less than Das Keyboard at $69. If you're not in a position to get your hands on a real Model M, I greatly recommend it.
All USB keyboards are identical (Score:5, Informative)
One problem I've noticed is that... the per keyboard mapping isn't completely effective. USB keyboards won't respect their per-keyboard mapping, from what I've seen.
USB doesn't specify a standard way for devices to have a unique identifier. The result is that all USB devices of a given model appear identical to the host. So if you have two Das Keyboards, the host cannot tell them apart (within the world of USB).
Loud hardware (Score:3, Informative)
I was under the impression the dot matrix printers of the 1980's were the loudest most annoying peices of computer equipment ever created.
You obviously never saw a daisy-wheel or golf-ball printer in action. Thump thump thump thump thump thump thump click-whir thump thump thump...
My first DMP was quiet in comparison.
/me waits for someone with an ASR-33 to jump into the thread...
Re:ATTN: CMDRTACO, other posters (Score:3, Informative)
Dude, if there's one person in the world who you can prove conclusively does *not* read Slashdot, at all, it's CmdrTaco. (And the other editors.)
Re:Dishwasher? (Score:2, Informative)
The actual circuity is fine up to about 300 degrees or so (solder temperature).
More likely, you just didn't wait for them to dry long enough. Perhaps take them out and try again if it's been a while.
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:3, Informative)
No problems with a washing membrane keyboard if you take the membrane out :) I've successfully dishwashed a Microsoft Natural keyboard and it came out like new. It took less than two minutes to remove the membrane and PCB - everything else went in and was left to dry in the airing cupboard for 24 hours before reassembly.
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:4, Informative)
You do not need to do that with a membrane keyboard. :-) Once a year, I disassemble mine (just a dozen of screws, a five minute job), put the top part with the keys into warm water with a bit of detergent for about one hour (shake out and clean the rest in the meantime), clean the keys, shake the water out, let it dry for some time a finish it with my hairdryer-fu. Never had any problems.
Gross, Taco (Score:3, Informative)
My old keyboard was so crusted up with junk from years of abuse that I found myself struggling to depress most of the keys on the left side.
It's not hard to keep a keyboard reasonably clean. Here's what I do that helps:
1) turn keyboard upside down and rap it a few times -- do this over a trash can (or an easily wiped surface if you want to see how effective it is).
2) canned/compressed air to force out the rest
3) wet-wipe or damp paper towel w/ a little windex to wipe the fingerprint buildup off the keys
And you don't even need to do this that often.
The only things that kill my keyboards are static electricity and obsolete plugs.
The scorpius appears to be shite (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.parkoz.com/zboard/view.php?id=my_album&no=51766 [parkoz.com]
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:3, Informative)
I can sympathize. I've always wanted that on my PCs. Keyboards that don't do that (due to "saving space", or whatever) always drive me nuts.
On my Mac though, I've found I rather like it the other way. I have a MacBook Pro and while it has function keys, you have to press the "fn" key to use them. The rest of the time they operate shortcuts (volume, brightness, spaces, etc). They are very handy. I never need to use them in OS X.
The only time I use them as function keys is when I boot into Windows. And there, it is annoying.
I'd really hate to try to use them to switch virtual terminals in Linux though. That'd drive me batty pretty fast until I got used to it (begrudgingly).
Re:There is only one true keyboard... (Score:3, Informative)
I highly recommend the Microsoft Ergonomic 4000. Everything that started going wrong with keyboards has been overturned with this model. I know I sound like a shill, but I bought two myself for both home and for work. Inverted T arrows, 3x2 home keys, number pad, and media buttons. Throw in the fact that they finally support tilting it *forward* (think of your piano teacher telling you to have a ball in the palm of your hand... tilting the keyboard so that the hands rest naturally is a good thing), and it's been heaven.
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=043 [microsoft.com]
Re:All USB keyboards are identical (Score:2, Informative)
The workaround, of course, is to label the USB ports you use for Keyboard and Mouse on WinXP machines. If the machine is still booting, it's usually more than a minute before you can use your keyboard and mouse if you've swapped their ports. Look on the bright side, at least if the system shits on its own drivers by crashing while overwriting them, at least you'll be able to get them back again, all thanks to the same bug/feature!
Just another step in being able to source the problem, AND the solution, all from one Vendor, while still leaving the road clear for per-Keyboard licencing.
No, not bitter.