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Review of Das Keyboard 713

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the clicky-clicky-clicky-clicky dept.
My old keyboard was so crusted up with junk from years of abuse that I found myself struggling to depress most of the keys on the left side. So I decided that it was time to find a new keyboard. My plan was to steal the keyboards of my co-workers and try them out when they aren't around. But as this plan was underway, Das Keyboard asked me to review their newest keyboard. I used it for a few days to see if their website's claim of 'the best keyboard on the planet' is valid. Read on to learn more.

First of all let me say that it sounds great. There's something really satisfying about the thunderous racket created by a nice tactile keyboard. The buttons move smoothly and lightly. As I type these words I find myself typing very fast. Ironically, I have to turn up my speakers just to listen clearly to the NPR program quietly playing... and this leads me to my first point. There are no volume control keys. So I have to navigate through various menus to put the volume control widget back on my toolbar. I haven't needed it for years, but this keyboard has none of the bloated keys that over populate a modern keyboard. Save for the 2 keys added for windows 95, this is practically the same layout as the first keyboard I called my own in the 80s. The keyboard is also available without any markings on the key- although my keyboard had them.

Then I hear the ping that tells me that I have mail so I apple-tab to go to my Mail program and then... crap. Did I mention that this is a windows keyboard? The alt key and the windows key are obnoxiously transposed, requiring me to rewire my brain to get to the program I need. It's not the end of the world- and of course it only matters if you are using a Mac. But since I switch daily from the laptop keyboard to a desktop keyboard, I suspect that I would slowly go mad as I was never able to reliably remember which key was alt and which key was apple. To say nothing of this meaningless preferences button which does nothing. Of course the OSX preferences panels contain an option to remap these keys, but I'd have to reset it every time I went home. And I just don't like the idea of monkeying around with this sort of thing twice a day.

So I decide that just for now I will use my mouse to navigate from app to app. This makes my heart cry a little bit- I don't much care for my mouse. He sits there lonely, the tool of last resort as I instead opt to use ridiculous keybindings requiring 7 fingers of syncronized chording. It only inflames my carpal tunnel, but I don't have to move my arm. But times of desperation call for us to rise up to the challenges that come before us.

Now Das Keyboard has the USB ports on the right hand side. I've plugged in 2 devices: the first is a little spinner wheel that I use for editing video, and the other is a little RF broadcaster for a wireless Logitech mouse. And like most of you, I'm right handed. So as I fling my mouse around, I find myself constantly bumping into the 2 giant USB plugs that now overlap my mousepad. My old keyboard had the mouse ports at the top and I never had this problem.

The toggle lights are completely invisible unless on, hidden cleanly within the black plastic surface. The num lock key doesn't seem to do anything, although I assume that's a mac thing. And scroll lock... well now seriously, who among us relies on that in any serious way? Maybe I should just remap those keys, along with the windows 'preferences' key to be the volume up, down, and mute key I'm missing.

But it's black. It's sexy. It's loud. It feels good to type on it. Which takes me to the big question: is this really worth shelling out $130 plus shipping for? For me the answer is a no. It feels great to type, but the lack of volume controls, the mac keys, and most of all, the irritating position of the USB ports make it an inferior keyboard in all practical ways except for the simple act of typing. But if you are a left handed windows user, you might feel differently. As for me, I'm going to have to keep searching for my perfect keyboard. This one is close, but it's just not it.

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Review of Das Keyboard

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  • by Nimey (114278) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:09PM (#24002181) Homepage Journal

    Unicomp sells a 104-key version of the Customizer that's USB-native. I'm typing on one right now. It's /slightly/ more lightly-built than the Lexmark M 3 feet away and my IBM M at home, but it's much better IMO than a standard kb.

  • Overpriced (Score:2, Informative)

    by h4rr4r (612664) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:09PM (#24002183)
    Preorder is $99, full price $129. A new in the box late 90s Model M can be had for $70 even with the USB adapter it would not break $80. Plus you get a durable piece of computing history, and no god forsaken windows keys.
  • by zappepcs (820751) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:11PM (#24002211) Journal

    You can use that key for other things:
    http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/use-the-windows-key-for-the-start-menu-in-ubuntu-linux/ [howtogeek.com]

    if you are so inclined

  • by serviscope_minor (664417) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:14PM (#24002261) Journal

    Why don't they sell keyboards without these stupid windows-keys?

    Because the windows keys are really, really useful? They give you 3 more keys in easy reach of your thumbs. I dislike the current trend to remove some of them. If yiu want to know how to get the best out of them, try running the following command:

    man xmodmap

    and if you want to do something handy with the key, try:

    man fvwm2

    Which reminds me... the reviewer complained about having to do lots of key remapping every day. Is this really the case? With a good system (eg, X) you can keep lists of kemappings in a file and just apply the whole file in one go. You can even bind the command to do that to a menu in any good window manager. That way, you can have as many keyboard types as you wish, for instance wierd laptop internal, external UK and external US.

  • by Scholasticus (567646) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:14PM (#24002265) Journal
    You don't have to pay $130+shipping for Das Keyboard. You can get it from thinkgeek.com for $80+shipping. It's out of stock right now but is estimated to be back in stock in 1-3 weeks. This is the model with no markings on the keys. I've had mine for about five months, and I love it. It's helped me improve my touch-typing, it has great tactile feedback, and the sound of those keys clicking is very nice. Sure, it's not the Model M, and it doesn't have multimedia keys, but if you use Windows or Linux (can't speak for the Mac, don't have one), it's a very nice keyboard.
  • by SpecialAgentXXX (623692) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:14PM (#24002271)
    After I first started using ergonomic split-key keyboards over a decade ago, I can't go back to the old-style "bust your wrists" keyboard. After 5 min of typing, my wrists hurt.

    So, no, Das Keyboard is NOT the best keyboard ever made. Microsoft's Natural Ergonomic 4000 is still the best IMNSHO.
  • Dishwasher? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Thelasko (1196535) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:15PM (#24002285) Journal
    I've heard if your old keyboard gets too crusty you can throw it in the dishwasher. [npr.org] Anybody try it?
  • ATTN: CMDRTACO (Score:4, Informative)

    by larry bagina (561269) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:17PM (#24002317) Journal
    The OS X keyboard preferences are for a specific keyboard, NOT every keyboard. You can swap the das keyboard alt/windows keys without affecting the laptop keyboard layout.
  • by The Warlock (701535) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:18PM (#24002341)

    It's called the Optimus Keyboard, and it costs eleventy bajillion dollars. But yes, it exists.

  • by gEvil (beta) (945888) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:19PM (#24002357)
    and b) there isn't a power button on them like the old iMac keyboard

    While you can't turn a Mac on with the newer keyboards, you can turn them off. Press CTRL-Eject to bring up the power menu.
  • by DingerX (847589) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:19PM (#24002365) Journal
    There is [wikipedia.org], it ain't cheap, and even if you had the money, you'd have trouble getting your hands on one. Then, when you did, you'd probably find it uncomfortable.
  • by DrPascal (185005) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:20PM (#24002383) Homepage

    As a Das Keyboard user that -doesn't- use a Mac, I think it is wonderful. If you're a keyboard enthusiast (which is whom I would have expected to review A KEYBOARD), I highly recommend giving one a shot.

    Each key is individually weighted, which gives it a really fresh feeling, and the keys feel light but still click loudly. In my opinion, there's really three top-tier keyboards out there for awesome tactile feedback: the M series keyboard (for people that learned on typewriters, not me), this keyboard and its mechanical switches, and those people out there that refuse to use anything but an SGI keyboard, even though their SGI workstation has been unused for years (some of my coworkers).

    This guy just cares about the placement of the Command key (which is settable in the Options anyway), and the "extra" keys. If you're like that, this keyboard is not for you.

  • Re:Dishwasher? (Score:2, Informative)

    by ral (93840) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:29PM (#24002569)
    Yep, it really does work. After I spilled a beer on my keyboard, I put it in there by itself, with no soap. It must be dry before you apply power. I let mine air dry for a week. (Maybe less time would be enough. I was being cautious.)
  • Re:Dishwasher? (Score:2, Informative)

    by swished7 (670525) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:31PM (#24002593)
    Yes, I tried it with a couple of Dell keyboards. Normal wash cycle, air dry. Now I have two spotless but broken keyboards. I suspect the water was too hot for the unprotected circuitry.
  • by lag10 (667114) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:31PM (#24002605)
    CmdrTaco, what version of OS X are you running? I'm not sure about earlier versions, but if you're running Leopard, you certainly have the option to reassign the modifier keys for different keyboards. That way, the modifiers would remain the same on your laptop keyboard, and be remapped to their respective positions on the DasKeyboard.

    Just take a look at this [macbrilliance.com] screenshot.

    I do this with my Saitek Eclipse keyboard and my MacBook Pro, and the setup works pretty well so far. I have Alt remapped to command, and the Windows key remapped to option, so everything is essentially in the same place.

    Now for the menu select key on the right side, that causes a slight problem...
  • by wordsnyc (956034) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:34PM (#24002679) Homepage

    The Lenovo M's keep popping up on eBay, factory sealed for ~$30. I have a stockpile in boxes that will puzzle my grandchildren.

  • by oneiros27 (46144) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:35PM (#24002687) Homepage

    Unicomp still makes the old-fashioned keyboards ... unfortunately, looking at their lists, most of the 101 and 102 key ones are PS2 or AT, not USB. They have a 'linux' model, but from the description I'm not sure if any of them are available as USB:

    http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html [yahoo.net]

    (and if you're scared of the springs -- they have quiet keyboards, too)

  • by Sigismundo (192183) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:42PM (#24002829)
    The Model M style buckling spring keyboards often don't have the Windows key. I have one myself. Also, someone mentioned Unicomp [yahoo.net] above, they have several keyboards that fit the bill.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:48PM (#24002913)

    Agreed. I'm typing this from a Unicomp Customizer right now. It's basically built in the old IBM Model M keyboard factory (the employees bought the division and spun it off into its own company).

    The external keyboard casing is thick plastic instead of solid metal, but it's still sturdier than most computer peripherals you'll run across. And as a bonus, mine has a USB interface instead of an AT connector.

    I use a Mac, so I actually wanted the Windows keys. However, I didn't want the stupid Microsoft logo on a keyboard for my Mac. For $10 extra Unicomp actually made me two replacement keycaps that say "Command" on them and provided a free blank keycap. I popped off the three Windows keys and replaced these with the new ones, and now it's just perfect.

    As with the Das Keyboard, on a Mac the alt and command keys are reversed. You can easily fix this in the System Preferences -> Keyboard and Mouse settings though. In OS X Leopard, they've even added a per-keyboard mapping option so I don't have to unswap the buttons every time I take my laptop out and use the built-in keyboard.

    I've also found that keeping my old Apple keyboard around has been useful, I plug it in during conference calls. Otherwise when I start clicking away on the keys everyone stops and asks what that sound is.

    Overall though, this is the best keyboard I've ever owned. It's just fun to type on, and if you're sitting at a computer all day long, that's worth something. The Unicomp keyboard sells for around $70. I'm sure you could get them to send you a set of blank keycaps for a little extra money if having blank keys is important to you.

    It's worth noting to that the key action is a little bit different between the Das Keyboard and the Unicomp Customizer. The Unicomp uses the exact same technology found in the legendary IBM Model M keyboards. Das Keyboard uses something else that is also supposed to be very good, but they're not exactly the same thing. I haven't personally tried both so I can't comment either way on that one. I'm sure it probably boils down to personal preference.

    I don't work for them or anything like that, I'm just a guy that got tired of replacing keyboards every few months.

    For reference, this is the exact keyboard I'm referring to: Unicomp Customizer 104 [yahoo.net]

  • by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:52PM (#24002959) Homepage

    No kidding. I'm tying this on a 1995/6 Microsoft Natural keyboard. The first natural keyboard. The one that came with a diskette to add functions for the Windows key (which was new at the time). The logo on the bottom says "Windows Compatible". Not Windows XP, or 2000, or NT, or 95. Windows.

    I've used this keyboard daily for years and years. It got a break of a few years when I spent most time on a laptop in college (though I'd break it out for long papers due to comfort), but I took it to work (because typing on those standard non-ergonomics keyboards becomes painful quickly) and it's been in constant use for the last two years.

    It's big, it's heavy, and it feels great to type on. Only two letters (N and M) are faded, every other one looks as good as the day I bought it. I took it apart a year or so ago to clean it really well (grime and dust from sitting around unused) and it was very well built. It has a large steel or aluminum plate in it to provide support.

    Best of all, it has a real inverted T set of arrow keys and a 3x2 set of home/end keys. I hate the way they've changed those on all their models they sell now.

    I had one of their internet natural keyboard a few years ago (with all the buttons on top). I didn't really use them, and at this point I'm not even sure where it is.

    But my comfortable 1995 keyboard works as well today as the day I bought it. Microsoft can make some really nice hardware at times.

  • by Rastl (955935) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:54PM (#24003003) Journal

    I'm not about to give up my extra ten words per minute I get on my clicky keyboard just because you don't like the sound.

    I don't like it when you listen to voice mail on speakerphone, argue with your spouse over who has to cook dinner that night, suck your teeth to get out the last shreds of the lunch you just ate at your desk, or any of the other annoying audible habits you have.

    That's why they make sound cancelling headphones.

    Note - I had a co-worker complain about my keyboard. This is the same co-worker who would make the most obnoxious choking sounds that you could hear across the room. Yeah, my keyboard is the most annoying thing going.

  • by edwinolson (116413) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:55PM (#24003017) Homepage

    I bought a pair of MS Natural Ergonomic 4000s to replace my aging MS Natural Multimedia keyboards (which I really like, except for the grime accumulated over years). I'd hoped the 4000 was just a USB version.

    The 4000 key action seems noticeably stiffer in general, and the space bar is particularly stiff. I'm pretty disappointed.

    -Ed

  • Re:Dishwasher? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:55PM (#24003019)

    Yes.

    I work for a computer lab at a major college and a close friend told me that it could be done. After years of use out keyboards were disgusting.

    What this friend didn't tell me is that even the tiniest amount of soap residue can clog the contacts, that depending on the dishwasher and the keyboards you can melt a bit of plastic and that keyboards take a very, very long time to dry.

    None of them survived.

    If you want to try it, run the dishwasher once or twice empty, to get the soap out. turn off heated drying and place only as many keyboards as will fit on the top rack, facing down. This is the fastest way to dry them as the keyboards will rust if they're wet for too long. Take special care that the USB or PS2 connectors drain easily as well.

  • by moosesocks (264553) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:55PM (#24003021) Homepage

    On windows, the "winkey" has a number of extremely functional uses exclusively tied to the operating system (rather than applications)

    Win + D shows the desktop. Hit it again, and your windows are restored. Not as swanky as Compiz or Expose, but gets the job done.

    Win + E opens a file browser

    Win + F opens the find file window

    Win + L locks the screen

    Win + R opens the "run" box

    The only thing missing is a built-in shortcut to open a command prompt.

    I also find myself using the context menu key quite a lot, as an alternative to mousing. This is especially useful when editing documents, or the like, and you don't know all of the keyboard shortcuts...

  • by Tetsujin (103070) on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:57PM (#24003059) Homepage Journal

    I believe I'll stick with my Happy Hacking Lites... All that extra bulk on the right side of a 104 keyboard has the effect of either pushing the main part of the keyboard to the left (increasing wrist strain) or pushing the mouse further to the right (real fun to reach for it, you know...)

    I wouldn't mind having some of those keys back, but only if I could put them on the left. Presently for Blender I use an external USB numeric keypad which I keep to the left of my keyboard... not too shabby.

  • Re:Dvorak? (Score:5, Informative)

    by XorNand (517466) * on Monday June 30, 2008 @12:58PM (#24003075)
    Das keyboard's claim to fame is that it's available with completely blank key caps. Get one of those and you can have your Dvorak layout without the manual labor of swapping keys.
  • by multipartmixed (163409) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:10PM (#24003307) Homepage

    And a wife armed with a glass of Pespi. *grumble*

  • by CastrTroy (595695) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:12PM (#24003337) Homepage
    I got the Scorpius M10 [ergogeek.com] keyboard. It's basically a DAS keyboard, with actual letters printed on the keys, and without the scooped F and J keys. I am very satisfied with mine. Costs quite a bit less than the DAS keyboard too.
  • by ThousandStars (556222) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:19PM (#24003461) Homepage
    Right: and I wrote a review of it (that /. picked up) here [wordpress.com], for those of you who want to know more.
  • Cheap keyboards (Score:3, Informative)

    by LilGuy (150110) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:19PM (#24003467)

    Funny, I just did an annual clean of mine and it's just like new again. I've got an old logitech internet navigator keyboard that cost about $35, five years ago when I bought it.

    My friends laugh at me for doing something so ridiculous. They say, "Why not just go buy a new one?" when the hair and the crumbs and whatever else makes it look nasty. It took me about an hour, but the way I see it, I saved at least $35, plus I don't have to buy a keyboard that's going to require some retarded drivers, and have to get used to a whole new feeling keyboard.

  • by kithrup (778358) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:27PM (#24003607)

    on Mac OS X. Go to System Preferences, then Keyboard & Mouse, and click on the "Modifier Keys" button. You can then swap any around -- I set caps lock to be control, but you can also change the Alt and Command keys. So if the keyboard has them swapped, you can swap them in software, and be happy.

  • by Teilo (91279) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:30PM (#24003651) Homepage

    On a side note, it's funny that there have been no Mac trolls so far :)

    That's because Mac users smart enough to buy a Das Keyboard are also smart enough to find the setting in System Preferences that lets you swap the Command and Option keys so that it behaves as expected. In Leopard, this can even be done device-by-device, thus alleviating CmdrTaco's problem.

    Using ControllerMate [orderedbytes.com], I was even able to add volume keys and an Eject button (used the PrtScr, Scroll Lock, and Pause buttons for volume.)

    I love my Das Keyboard II.

  • Unicomp sells a 104-key version of the Customizer that's USB-native. I'm typing on one right now. It's /slightly/ more lightly-built than the Lexmark M 3 feet away and my IBM M at home, but it's much better IMO than a standard kb.

    Yes, I have one too. I bought it after I ruined my original Model M by spilling tea on it, and I have to concede that real Model M was better, quality-wise -- in particular, the C key on this board gets stuck in some little plastic detail when depressed from the wrong angle, and it doesn't have removable key caps.

    Nevertheless, it is still incomprehensibly much better than any run-of-the-mill rubber dome rubbish, and it sells for lot less than Das Keyboard at $69. If you're not in a position to get your hands on a real Model M, I greatly recommend it.

  • by DragonHawk (21256) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:43PM (#24003871) Homepage Journal

    One problem I've noticed is that... the per keyboard mapping isn't completely effective. USB keyboards won't respect their per-keyboard mapping, from what I've seen.

    USB doesn't specify a standard way for devices to have a unique identifier. The result is that all USB devices of a given model appear identical to the host. So if you have two Das Keyboards, the host cannot tell them apart (within the world of USB).

  • Loud hardware (Score:3, Informative)

    by DragonHawk (21256) on Monday June 30, 2008 @01:49PM (#24003981) Homepage Journal

    I was under the impression the dot matrix printers of the 1980's were the loudest most annoying peices of computer equipment ever created.

    You obviously never saw a daisy-wheel or golf-ball printer in action. Thump thump thump thump thump thump thump click-whir thump thump thump...

    My first DMP was quiet in comparison.

    /me waits for someone with an ASR-33 to jump into the thread...

  • by Blakey Rat (99501) on Monday June 30, 2008 @02:10PM (#24004373)

    Dude, if there's one person in the world who you can prove conclusively does *not* read Slashdot, at all, it's CmdrTaco. (And the other editors.)

  • Re:Dishwasher? (Score:2, Informative)

    by CityZen (464761) on Monday June 30, 2008 @02:13PM (#24004417) Homepage

    The actual circuity is fine up to about 300 degrees or so (solder temperature).

    More likely, you just didn't wait for them to dry long enough. Perhaps take them out and try again if it's been a while.

  • by nmg196 (184961) * on Monday June 30, 2008 @02:14PM (#24004449)

    No problems with a washing membrane keyboard if you take the membrane out :) I've successfully dishwashed a Microsoft Natural keyboard and it came out like new. It took less than two minutes to remove the membrane and PCB - everything else went in and was left to dry in the airing cupboard for 24 hours before reassembly.

  • by K. S. Kyosuke (729550) on Monday June 30, 2008 @02:25PM (#24004611)

    As a side note, never, ever try this with a membrane keyboard.

    You do not need to do that with a membrane keyboard. :-) Once a year, I disassemble mine (just a dozen of screws, a five minute job), put the top part with the keys into warm water with a bit of detergent for about one hour (shake out and clean the rest in the meantime), clean the keys, shake the water out, let it dry for some time a finish it with my hairdryer-fu. Never had any problems.

  • Gross, Taco (Score:3, Informative)

    by statemachine (840641) on Monday June 30, 2008 @03:05PM (#24005193)

    My old keyboard was so crusted up with junk from years of abuse that I found myself struggling to depress most of the keys on the left side.

    It's not hard to keep a keyboard reasonably clean. Here's what I do that helps:
    1) turn keyboard upside down and rap it a few times -- do this over a trash can (or an easily wiped surface if you want to see how effective it is).
    2) canned/compressed air to force out the rest
    3) wet-wipe or damp paper towel w/ a little windex to wipe the fingerprint buildup off the keys
    And you don't even need to do this that often.

    The only things that kill my keyboards are static electricity and obsolete plugs.

  • by Kattspya (994189) on Monday June 30, 2008 @04:31PM (#24006665)
    Look at the amazon reviews. All of them complain about the manufacturing and one of them even have some pictures up which look horrifying. I could solder a lot better than that!

    http://www.parkoz.com/zboard/view.php?id=my_album&no=51766 [parkoz.com]
  • by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Monday June 30, 2008 @05:18PM (#24007415) Homepage

    I can sympathize. I've always wanted that on my PCs. Keyboards that don't do that (due to "saving space", or whatever) always drive me nuts.

    On my Mac though, I've found I rather like it the other way. I have a MacBook Pro and while it has function keys, you have to press the "fn" key to use them. The rest of the time they operate shortcuts (volume, brightness, spaces, etc). They are very handy. I never need to use them in OS X.

    The only time I use them as function keys is when I boot into Windows. And there, it is annoying.

    I'd really hate to try to use them to switch virtual terminals in Linux though. That'd drive me batty pretty fast until I got used to it (begrudgingly).

  • by MrScience (126570) on Monday June 30, 2008 @05:35PM (#24007685) Homepage

    I highly recommend the Microsoft Ergonomic 4000. Everything that started going wrong with keyboards has been overturned with this model. I know I sound like a shill, but I bought two myself for both home and for work. Inverted T arrows, 3x2 home keys, number pad, and media buttons. Throw in the fact that they finally support tilting it *forward* (think of your piano teacher telling you to have a ball in the palm of your hand... tilting the keyboard so that the hands rest naturally is a good thing), and it's been heaven.
    http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=043 [microsoft.com]

  • by dotgain (630123) on Monday June 30, 2008 @08:45PM (#24010029) Homepage Journal
    No, it's just Windows' braindead way of handling it. Consider yourself lucky it doesn't ask you if you're sure you want to overwrite the existing drivers with the exact same files every time you plug in. Consider yourself even luckier that it doesn't just do it every single time, even when you're plugged into the same ports.

    The workaround, of course, is to label the USB ports you use for Keyboard and Mouse on WinXP machines. If the machine is still booting, it's usually more than a minute before you can use your keyboard and mouse if you've swapped their ports. Look on the bright side, at least if the system shits on its own drivers by crashing while overwriting them, at least you'll be able to get them back again, all thanks to the same bug/feature!

    Just another step in being able to source the problem, AND the solution, all from one Vendor, while still leaving the road clear for per-Keyboard licencing.

    No, not bitter.

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